Bitcoin Forum

Wanted to make sure this was well known.

The easiest way if you have a large chunk of change to put into BTC is to do a bank wire...

I am in the US.  There have been a few times I have wired $50k to MtGox, whether it was to buy BTC for myself, or on behalf of others.  MtGox didn't charge me any fees for this deposit.  The only fee I paid was to Chase Bank for initiating the wire.

If I do it in time for wires to go out (e.g. before 3pm my local time, 5pm Eastern time, which I believe is a Federal Reserve cutoff time), each and every time, it has been available for me to spend that same evening - typically 7pm-9pm local time, as long as the next day was a business day in Japan.  That's because my evening is Japan's next morning.

My most recent wire, I initiated at 2:10pm local time, and was able to spend it at 7:02pm the same evening, so that's less than 5 hours.

I strongly recommend a YubiKey if you're dealing with that kind of money.  You will be dealing with a 100 BTC (or similar) withdrawal limit - consider that a blessing, an anti-theft measure, to give you time to get your YubiKey (while you get your personal info to MtGox).  If you deposit that kind of money into MtGox, order a YubiKey immediately, and don't ask for your limit to be raised before you have received and activated it.  YubiKey comes fast - it gets sent via a form of express post.

With dealing with that kind of money, I also wouldn't recommend anything less than just overnighting "certified copies" of your personal documentation as a way to get your limits raised.  A notary produces certified copies.

So you're the "manipulator"..... :) j/k

And here I thought the way you'd recommend to buy lots of bitcoins very fast was to buy your 1000-bitcoin bar from MemoryDealers…

For some reason, the thread title got my heart beating very fast as if someone was throwing free bitcoins from the sky!

That too is very fast if you don't mind the surcharge... (which I believe can be reduced if you pay by wire)

Keep in mind that in a way, we (referring to me and Roger at MemoryDealers) are promoting Bitcoin and especially acquiring Bitcoin safely, more so than taking an interest in making money selling gold plated bars.  He and I could well be described as bitcoin enthusiasts.  The surcharge isn't meant to be a moneymaker.  Most of that markup goes into credit card fees and overhead and offsetting risk.  We all cheer when somebody goes and buys BTC from MtGox, because it helps bring BTC closer to what we think is its true value.  We're sad if somebody gets scammed or hacked or loses a wallet (even if it's their own fault), because it bruises Bitcoin as a whole.

after seeing that your bank is probably filing a SAR as we speak

In my case, it's a good thing my activities are legitimate and I have nothing to worry about.

Being on a US gov terrorist list of some sort would still not be fun, even if all your activities are legitimate.  It's so sad how we are letting our own government kill off civil liberties for the *illusion* of safety.

definitely the cheapest also.  $50K for $40= 0.08% fee

oh, i just assumed that the regulations required you to register as an MSB if you are engaged in converting or moving funds for others.  or be a licensed brokerage. or something else, in order to transfer someone else's funds.

i suppose these restrictions wouldn't apply when the transfers are for friends and family situations though, which might be the type of transactions you are describing.

Yeah, makes sense.  Nope, it's only been a few hundred or a few grand here and there for friends and family.  In most cases I am just selling them physical bitcoins.  And also if I sell a Casascius gold coin and accept USD for it, I essentially have to re-buy 1000 BTC as well.

+1 , (sorry if I didn't add much to the conversation)

my bank has said they don't report those large amts to the gov't.  i wonder if this is true?

TNO

i see what you did there!

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-unpaid-spies-in-the-financial-system-2011-12

Yubikeys are worthless ATM for protecting bitcoins since you can withdraw via the API and the API still allows un/password authentication.  Just FYI.  MtGox needs to suck it up and break compatibility with old code instead of allowing this glaring hole to exist.

Wow, is this fact wildly known?
It deserves a post of its own somewhere, the hole is indeed glaring.
I'll post it to reddit.

At the very least, they should disable API usage by default for Yubikey owners, and require a press to activate the API.  The number of Mt. Gox users that have a Yubikey and use the API has to be a very small % of users, I'd guess a few dozen at most.

You do have to enable the API in your user preferences, and have some granular control i.e. trade functionality vs. withdrawal functionality.

In other words, it's up to the end user to control their own risk in using the API features. For example, one might enable trade API functionality while limiting withdrawal functionality to Yubikey authenticated web based user sessions.

I don't think this is a hole at all, but I will say that MtGox and others are probably limited by their own niche success, as they have a large enough user base that they have to give consideration to backward compatibility when including new features (and risking breaking everything).

-Jon

can u explain this a bit more and its implications for us non API Yubikey users?

I posted about it on 22-Dec:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55432.msg659595#msg659595

If anybody knows of an earlier mention, say so.

I'm (ironically) away from my Yubikey until Friday evening, so I can't verify the claims that there are settings to tweak that will solve this issue.  Personally, I use the API, but I would prefer to have un/pass authentication disabled, but last I checked it still worked.

I believe that one must use key/secret authentication in order to withdraw.

Bitcoinica has an account with Yubikey, and we had to set up another account for automated Mt. Gox code withdrawals till recently.

Now we are using key/secret authentication to process withdrawals from our main account directly.

You can't use the API without an API key and HMAC authentication.

You can also leave the API disabled if you choose, and you need your Yubikey to enable it.

So no, the Yubikey is not broken -- it is very useful, and telling average users (who don't even use the API) that it is useless is not the best idea.

I think it depends on the relationship you have with your banker. There are factors and elements that go into whether something rises to the level of 'suspicious' and is tied towards the 'reasonable suspicious' standard with regards to searches and seizures. If you have a good relationship and reputation along with plausible evidence then it is not really an issue.

It is not uncommon for me to initiate wires oversees in connection with deals or clients I am working with and I always have some type of plausible story like buying foreign real estate, rent, buying a business, capital goods, consulting project, etc. and my banker gets regular financial statements from me in accordance with debt covenants. It does get fun when I ask for $10-15k of physical cash in $20s but with pictures and stories it is not much of a problem and I usually give him a few days to order it. For example, last time one of my buddies flew his plane to Santiago he landed in Ecuador for gas and they didn't have any avgas and it had to be trucked in and cost $10k cash. It is not uncommon to only be able to pay for gas with cash in the Caribbean, Latin America, etc. and would be unreasonably stupid to fly down there without a large amount of cash due to the normal conditions of business and environment.

QUESTION: I am thinking of putting together a business deal where I need to be able to buy about $45k of bitcoins and send them to someone within a day or two. Anyone know if MtGox raises or removes the withdrawal limit, in bitcoins, if you have the met the KYC/AML standards?

They did for me. I can pull 5000 BTC per day. Plenty for me.

As of a week ago un/pass worked with API.  I forgot I had to enable the API back in the day, so you are correct there.  I will test whether un/pw works still when I get home in the next few days.  If it does work, I will check on withdrawals.  If they work it absolutely is broken.

What kind of aircraft can hold $10k worth of avgas?

Sounds like it was the trucking that made it so expensive.

A large private jet can carry 10,000 lbs of fuel, which is about 1300 gallons.  A fill up would cost $10k if they paid $8/gallon, which is a reasonable price in rural SA or Africa.

A large private jet would carry Jet-A or similar, as opposed to avgas.

Bingo. The plane only held like 92 gallons.

with KYC standards you can withdraw $45K in bitcoins all at once but in 1000 btc batches one right after another.

Yubikeys are not required on the API and hence are a pointless joke on the gullible.

This line of thinking is wrong on so many levels.