Bitcoin Forum

I just witnessed an incident on board that has significantly affected my trust on the existing Trust system. Please have a look at it...

RitzGrandCasino (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=227066) runs a signature campaign (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=499007.0) that is competitive to Stunna's (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81292) campaign (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291387.0). Till date RitzGrandCasino has paid all members as per her commitment and there are no complain against him on the board. Same is applicable for Stunna too. Now RitzGrandCasino rates are higher than Stunna and hence Stunna was losing members for his campaign. To counter RitzGrandCasino a dirty game has been played here. zackclark70 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=121108) has left a -ve trust on RitzGrandCasino for a lame reason...


Interestingly zackclark70 has +ve trust from Stunna.


I'm not master of the Trust system and dont know how it works in details. But false -ve feedback from a trusted member definitely raises concern before making deal with other trusted members on the marketplace. Now I need to know how they gained trust and whether they are trustworthy at all...

It's a helpful tool, but I don't believe it's meant to be the final authoritative representation of whether or not someone is trust-worthy. Make sure to also do your own research, and don't rely on it entirely.

Yeah, I noticed that and it does look a bit suspicious, but the trust system is far from perfect or free from abuse anyway.

^^ THIS ^^

It's also been said a million times that the trust system is not moderated either, anyone can leave anyone else feedback for whatever reason.  I think the only time that action would be taken is if someone was spamming tons of ratings.  I'm not even sure what would qualify as spam (to theymos as he's the only one who can delete others' ratings) as I think he's letting most of the BFL shenanigans stay up.

What about removing people abusing the trust system, from default trust? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=63170

People sometimes remove others if they're abusing it, but you'll have to ask or make the person aware who put them on their trusted list.

Zillions is *not* a part of DefaultTrust, he is simply on CanaryInTheMine's Trust list. CanaryInTheMine himself is part of DefaultTrust so you could contact him about this and he might decide to drop Zillions off his Trust list. But try contacting Zillions first.

BTW, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=413803.msg4489024#msg4489024

If someone does not agree with the current trust system that does not make he is not trustworthy.
If you do not recognize the problem, it does not mean that there is no problem.

Leaving fake feedback makes you not trustworthy

i can tell you very recently, a person going by the name of joksim299, put neg trust on us and then offered to remove it for .01 btc. so that leaves the door open for blackmail. The trust system is totally floored and it needs to go.  It causes more trouble than what it is worth.

Read my feedback is there anything untruthful?

So?  His feedback is useless if his trust is not positive.  If this joksim person has any kind of positive trust and is blackmailing you, post the info here and other trusted members will make sure his trust does not remain positive.

Trust system works.

Trust system is necessary.  Because a few claim to have an issue (for questionable reasons) doesn't mean it's "broken".

Anyone aware of who is involved and their history (including which company they represent)  would arrive at a conclusion that what's happening is inappropriate.

Members of default trust do have a responsibility to make sure those we trust do not abuse the system.

I've contacted zillions to see what resolution he wants.

Well I'm already at Negative 11 (-11) but I'm pretty sure I'm not ever going to come back to positive.
I've made my point about the system...... So yes I'll remove it.
No need in getting my account banned on this "rebellion."

I leave this quote as mod advice about manipulating trust.
Of course, it is better to remove the description of the real deal and leave negative trust feedback to person for expressing his opinions.
Hypocrites!
 >:(

I have removed Dogies not seeing the delete option for Badbear though

[Edit] NVM found it weird how I have to go into each members trust page to edit feed back I've left.

How about removing DefaultTrust?

You have to go into each member's page to leave the trust in the first place.  Don't do it so casually.

Thanks, I've removed yours. If you're no longer participating in trolling the trust system, I have no problem with you.

Was an interesting experiment to see how the system handles people in default trust messing about - system won.

The number should be a little lower now, and I'm sure BadBear would reconsider if you PM'd him... you'll find that most of the mods here are reasonable people.  Your account wouldn't be banned for leaving comments using the trust system anyways.

Does it ? I mentioned in my opening post how zackclark70 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=121108) has abused the trust system. I would request u to cross-verify my description at your end. As per your statement, he should be on -ve trust now. But, is he ?

Same, removed mine too.


I'm pretty good at deciphering pseudo english, but this is just gibberish. I do detect some butthurt though.

Why would you trust any system when making a decision on spending your money or risking your property?

I think you can gain some insight into how people do business through such a system but it should not be your only factor when deciding to deal with people.

NEVER TRUST ANYONE HERE NO MATTER THEIR REPUTATION!

That is the only rule you need to go by. It especially goes for bitcoin exchanges and asic hardware manufactures etc etc etc and specifically BFL.

Trust System is very much required tool on this Forum

Can someone exploit it : Yes very Easily

Do we need some Changes in Trust Sys : Yeah

at the end use your own brains before trusting someone based on his trust rating..! someone can gain fake Positive Trust and a trusted member can get Negative Trust..!

What would be a better solution for a safer option?  I think it's better that we have a trusted list and putting certain long-standing and (apparently) more trustable people on it is beneficial, but it can also be easily abused and taken advantage of and the people on the trusted list can sometimes seem to have a mafia-like rule over it whether unspoken and enforced or not, but I can't think of a way that would be foolproof. It reminds me of the trouble with the old style feedback on eBay where the seller could also leave feedback. If the buyer left negative feedback for whatever reason then the favour was usually just quickly returned.

What this Trust system is all about ? I see I have 0 Trust !!! ::)

I'm new here... so all of u categorized me someone of zero trust ?

The trust is gauged by other on the forum who have dealt with you or have founding a posts of yours to be significant and worth giving you a positive rep for.  If you don't have a positive trust rating it does not mean that your not trustworthy is just means that nobody has decided to vouch for you so to speak, simple as that.

give a positive feedback to people who can show the real deal that they have been thru show the real reference if there is not then it cant be trusted

Zero trust is like neutral. You aren't someone who people can trust or who people shouldn't trust. It takes time to earn trust. I wouldn't solely rely on the trust system, although it can be helpful at times.

Because you are using default trust, due to never having changed it, and the people leavimg you feedback aren't on it.  Make your own trust list and add them to it if you want to see their feedback as trusted.

Because you consider yourself as 'trusted' that's why it shows up there. To everyone else you will be in the untrusted section though (unless, as Badbear said, they have you on their trusted list).

The Trust System works fine, but one of the things I have a beef with is where people who CLEARLY have no idea how to handle DefaultTrust get onto DefaultTrust. A prime example of this is LittleD - I can appreciate his/her intentions - they're good (personally I think Inaba is a scumbag too) - but holy crap LittleD enjoys trust spam. It takes ages to even find negative feedback left by others on Inaba, for instance, because there must be 10+ negative feedback consisting of "SCAmmer" repeated over and over left on him just by LittleD.

Seriously - look at that Sent Feedback. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=144519

IMHO the idea of "oh this person participated in a trade/whatever that involved me, let's put them onto DefaultTrust" is terrible. There are people who are trusted by people who have never even left trust on them. This inevitably means that those who have no idea how to use the system get put into a position of power in it.

I agree. I personally have issues with this. I see no reason why they can't simply get feedback for the trade rather than being put on the DefaultTrust list. There are a few (not to name names) that seem to have added every person they've ever done a deal with and all it leaves you with is a group of people who don't have feedback but have the power to change what is seen by most people who accept DefaultTrust. I'm not saying that some don't deserve to be there but I cannot believe that every single person on DT is there because they can be trusted rather than simply having completed deals.

That being said, I don't really have a solution to this problem. As it is now, the system makes sense and there really isn't a much better option.

Has he been removed? I don't see LittleD on the default list. Maybe I'm blind.  8)

He's one of the 195 people under CanaryInTheMine. I'm not particularly surprised that you're unable to find him (it's like looking for a needle in a haystack ;)), CTRL+F should help you.

I still don't see him or a Trust list under Canaryinthemine? Perhaps that list has been pruned or maybe because I don't use the Default list?

Edit: Yep, I added canaryinthemine and there is a long list. We need to PM him and ask for the list to be pruned.

Nah, he's still there, on the 2nd depth on DefaultTrust. My trust list is this:

I don't use Default Trust, that's why. I sent canaryinthemine a PM politely asking him to review and reevaluate his list. It's up to him to change or not.