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Title: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: skooter on April 12, 2014, 04:56:09 AM So, let's say I scammed some bitcoins and want to wash them, isn't it virtually impossible to trace?
All I need to do is deposit the coins onto some web wallet, and withdraw them, and I get different coins, since most web wallets don't keep the coins tied to your account on the actual cash in address. (I've tried this. After I withdrew my coins, the original coins I sent are still unspent, so I got totally different coins). Even if someone wanted to trace it, they don't know *where* I sent the coins to, since sites don't exactly publish a list of bitcoin addresses they control. And when I cash them out, nobody would know that I even sent coins to an exchange, because again, anyone could own that address. And from what I've seen, most sites don't pool coins into a centralized known address, they keep them distributed over many address and just spend the outputs when they need to, so unless you make a withdrawl from mt gox and get coins from a particular address, you wouldn't know mt gox controls that address. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: LAMarcellus on April 12, 2014, 05:51:37 AM So, let's say I scammed some bitcoins and..... We're not fond of scammers here.... >:( GFY Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: jdun on April 12, 2014, 06:27:50 AM There are sites like bitcoinfog that will put your coins in a tumbler. If a coin washer was not used, then in theory the transactions could be trace, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: skooter on April 12, 2014, 07:02:01 AM So, let's say I scammed some bitcoins and..... We're not fond of scammers here.... >:( GFY Uh, bitcoin is like THE PERFECT currency for scams. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: kwukduck on April 12, 2014, 07:27:24 AM You mean its more perfect than using cash?
Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: mintodev on April 12, 2014, 07:34:56 AM So, let's say I scammed some bitcoins and want to wash them, isn't it virtually impossible to trace? All I need to do is deposit the coins onto some web wallet, and withdraw them, and I get different coins, since most web wallets don't keep the coins tied to your account on the actual cash in address. (I've tried this. After I withdrew my coins, the original coins I sent are still unspent, so I got totally different coins). Even if someone wanted to trace it, they don't know *where* I sent the coins to, since sites don't exactly publish a list of bitcoin addresses they control. And when I cash them out, nobody would know that I even sent coins to an exchange, because again, anyone could own that address. And from what I've seen, most sites don't pool coins into a centralized known address, they keep them distributed over many address and just spend the outputs when they need to, so unless you make a withdrawl from mt gox and get coins from a particular address, you wouldn't know mt gox controls that address. Are you giving tips to scam or are you asking question? Because i see that you just posted the hints for people to scam, lol :) Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: skooter on April 12, 2014, 08:03:32 AM So, let's say I scammed some bitcoins and want to wash them, isn't it virtually impossible to trace? All I need to do is deposit the coins onto some web wallet, and withdraw them, and I get different coins, since most web wallets don't keep the coins tied to your account on the actual cash in address. (I've tried this. After I withdrew my coins, the original coins I sent are still unspent, so I got totally different coins). Even if someone wanted to trace it, they don't know *where* I sent the coins to, since sites don't exactly publish a list of bitcoin addresses they control. And when I cash them out, nobody would know that I even sent coins to an exchange, because again, anyone could own that address. And from what I've seen, most sites don't pool coins into a centralized known address, they keep them distributed over many address and just spend the outputs when they need to, so unless you make a withdrawl from mt gox and get coins from a particular address, you wouldn't know mt gox controls that address. Are you giving tips to scam or are you asking question? Because i see that you just posted the hints for people to scam, lol :) Im wondering is there any realistic way to track the coins? Even if places keep records, nobody would know who to go to for said records. All I posted was how to wash coins. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: DobZombie on April 12, 2014, 08:14:23 AM So, let's say I scammed some bitcoins and want to wash them, isn't it virtually impossible to trace? Well, if you scammed some coins & you want to wash them, follow this easy guide... 1) Transfer the coins to 1gofuckyourself4kS34F3ScW4dx 2) Sit back while I plough your mum, fuckhead. It's Just that easy! Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: tzortz on April 12, 2014, 08:51:38 AM So, let's say I scammed some bitcoins and want to wash them, isn't it virtually impossible to trace? Well, if you scammed some coins & you want to wash them, follow this easy guide... 1) Transfer the coins to 1gofuckyourself4kS34F3ScW4dx 2) Sit back while I plough your mum, fuckhead. It's Just that easy! You are a hero member. I cant believe you give such answers. Shame on you! Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: Equate on April 12, 2014, 08:55:04 AM So, let's say I scammed some bitcoins and..... You wanna scam , GTFO Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: Light on April 12, 2014, 09:12:00 AM You are a hero member. I cant believe you give such answers. Shame on you! A Hero member is a person nonetheless and like any person on this forum is entitled to his opinion. I don't know why there is some misconception that Hero members have to be nicer, more knowledgable and ethical than the rest of the forum base. Some are - but as evidence will show you some aren't. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: zetaray on April 12, 2014, 09:13:21 AM I have a great idea. If want your scam coins to be untraceable, sent them to gox.
Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: tzortz on April 12, 2014, 09:17:34 AM You are a hero member. I cant believe you give such answers. Shame on you! A Hero member is a person nonetheless and like any person on this forum is entitled to his opinion. I don't know why there is some misconception that Hero members have to be nicer, more knowledgable and ethical than the rest of the forum base. Some are - but as evidence will show you some aren't. You are right. But, wouldn't expect anyone in this forum answering like a 10 year old bully. Especially when he is a senior / hero member. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: Light on April 12, 2014, 09:22:07 AM You are right. But, wouldn't expect a hero member asnwering like a 10 year old bully. Yes and no. Some members have a propensity to be quite a bit more blunt when it comes to their views. Just a part of human nature. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: tzortz on April 12, 2014, 09:32:56 AM You are right. But, wouldn't expect a hero member asnwering like a 10 year old bully. Yes and no. Some members have a propensity to be quite a bit more blunt when it comes to their views. Just a part of human nature. You know, I am new here, and as happening to all discussion communities, I give more emphasis on senior or "hero" as called answers. But this case degrades this point of thinking. ps. So "older and wiser " does not apply here? Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: Light on April 12, 2014, 09:50:44 AM You know, I am new here, and as happening to all discussion communities, I give more emphasis on senior or "hero" as called answers. But this case degrades this point of thinking. ps. So "older and wiser " does not apply here? Sr and Hero posts on technical matters are in general more sound, in particular pay attention to DannyHamilton & DeathandTaxes as I've found that their technical responses as they are well informed. Most (and I emphasise most) VIP/Donators are also very technically competent. As far as matters regarding ethics some members no matter what rank they hold are far more vocal as this case demonstrates. What I'm saying is that it's best to avoid making sweeping generalisations about members - don't lump all Sr and Hero members in the same group. Trust me at every level here and society in general there will be people you don't like/disagree with but it doesn't mean everyone at that level is just as bad. On your final point, I only speak for myself when I state that - not everyone on this forum/rest of the world. I'd like to think I'm not so arrogant that I know everyone that well. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: DobZombie on April 12, 2014, 09:51:14 AM You are right. But, wouldn't expect a hero member asnwering like a 10 year old bully. Yes and no. Some members have a propensity to be quite a bit more blunt when it comes to their views. Just a part of human nature. You know, I am new here, and as happening to all discussion communities, I give more emphasis on senior or "hero" as called answers. But this case degrades this point of thinking. ps. So "older and wiser " does not apply here? Sorry if I was a tad blunt (read:sledgehammer ;) ) but I read your post as "I scammed someone and I want to launder the coin". The answer I gave was only directed to that question, not you buddy! If you were attempting to ask "If I got scammed, is there a way for the scammer to make the scammed coins untraceable?" Then the answer to that is "yes" There are several ways to launder coins. 1) Coinjoin 2) bitmixer.io 3) bitcoinfog and many more... (google those words for more info) again, if you're not a scammer asking a scammy question, then I apologize. Nearly EVERYONE in this forum has been scammed, and it can make us a tad grumpy ::) Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: QuantumQrack on April 12, 2014, 11:34:38 AM I strenuously object to associating CoinJoin as only a means to launder money. CoinJoin was started to give bitcoin users a way to increase their financial privacy level. CoinJoin != money laundering.
Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: TheButterZone on April 12, 2014, 11:37:45 AM I strenuously object to associating CoinJoin as only a means to launder money. CoinJoin was started to give bitcoin users a way to increase their financial privacy level. CoinJoin != money laundering. Just a matter of time before the tyrants formally define everything=money laundering. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: DobZombie on April 12, 2014, 12:44:36 PM I strenuously object to associating CoinJoin as only a means to launder money. CoinJoin was started to give bitcoin users a way to increase their financial privacy level. CoinJoin != money laundering. I used the term "money Laundering" pretty loosely :P I was trying to list some examples of how one could thwart tracing bitcoin transactions. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: jparsley on April 12, 2014, 05:29:26 PM Exchangers
Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: skooter on April 12, 2014, 11:07:12 PM You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system.
- The victim has zero recourse - No identifying information is required to open an account and receive payments - The ability to make transactions untraceable / extremely difficult to trace. And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: tzortz on April 12, 2014, 11:31:17 PM You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system. - The victim has zero recourse - No identifying information is required to open an account and receive payments - The ability to make transactions untraceable / extremely difficult to trace. And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. So, whats the website? ::) Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: skooter on April 12, 2014, 11:47:35 PM You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system. - The victim has zero recourse - No identifying information is required to open an account and receive payments - The ability to make transactions untraceable / extremely difficult to trace. And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. So, whats the website? ::) Can't say. Doesn't matter anyway. Nobody would believe anything I say anyway, since I have zero credibility here. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: tzortz on April 13, 2014, 12:06:18 AM You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system. - The victim has zero recourse - No identifying information is required to open an account and receive payments - The ability to make transactions untraceable / extremely difficult to trace. And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. So, whats the website? ::) Can't say. Doesn't matter anyway. Nobody would believe anything I say anyway, since I have zero credibility here. So, why say? Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: skooter on April 13, 2014, 12:28:17 AM You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system. - The victim has zero recourse - No identifying information is required to open an account and receive payments - The ability to make transactions untraceable / extremely difficult to trace. And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. So, whats the website? ::) Can't say. Doesn't matter anyway. Nobody would believe anything I say anyway, since I have zero credibility here. So, why say? I'm giving the context behind why I'm asking about bitcoin traceability. That's all. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: Light on April 13, 2014, 01:17:57 AM And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. Pretty shitty friend you got there man. And why exactly would you be helping him in this (on the assumption you guys aren't one and the same)... You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system. Of course we're going to be sensitive - what your 'friend' is trying to do is unethical and morally wrong. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: skooter on April 13, 2014, 01:27:18 AM And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. Pretty shitty friend you got there man. And why exactly would you be helping him in this (on the assumption you guys aren't one and the same)... You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system. Of course we're going to be sensitive - what your 'friend' is trying to do is unethical and morally wrong. Because I'm getting paid to. And gimmie a break. The majority of people here are pumping bitcoin for the interests of their holdings going up in value. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: RomertL on April 13, 2014, 04:09:47 AM And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. Pretty shitty friend you got there man. And why exactly would you be helping him in this (on the assumption you guys aren't one and the same)... You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system. Of course we're going to be sensitive - what your 'friend' is trying to do is unethical and morally wrong. Because I'm getting paid to. And gimmie a break. The majority of people here are pumping bitcoin for the interests of their holdings going up in value. Are you fucking shitting me??? Are you seriously comparing scamming with speculating to justify what you do? Scammers and the people helping them are the lowest life on earth and deserve all bad that could happen to them. I really hope your friend gets caught and you get into trouble for helping him if this is indeed what you're doing. If it sounds like I've gotten scammed of Bitcoin at some point, no. But I do hate scammers. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: TheButterZone on April 13, 2014, 06:18:06 AM And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. Pretty shitty friend you got there man. And why exactly would you be helping him in this (on the assumption you guys aren't one and the same)... You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system. Of course we're going to be sensitive - what your 'friend' is trying to do is unethical and morally wrong. Because I'm getting paid to. And gimmie a break. The majority of people here are pumping bitcoin for the interests of their holdings going up in value. And we're failing spectacularly, because our holdings are only FALLING in value. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: pungopete468 on April 13, 2014, 06:41:41 AM Be aware that everything you do in Bitcoin will be recorded forever. There will be no statute of limitations on crimes involving Bitcoins.
Ask yourself this; will there ever be a way to track Bitcoins back to you? The answer is undoubtedly yes. Don't do it. Karma will come back with a vengeance and it might be several years from now when you least expect it. Imagine getting your life just right, then losing everything because of something dumb you did on a network that stores transaction history indefinitely... Be smart. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: skooter on April 13, 2014, 07:43:35 AM And btw, the info isn't for me. I have a friend who's about to shut down a website and take off with everyone's coins and claim the site got hacked, so he wants to make sure none of it's going to come back to him. Pretty shitty friend you got there man. And why exactly would you be helping him in this (on the assumption you guys aren't one and the same)... You know, you guys are awful sensitive to the topic of scamming when you're supporting a currency that basically has all the properties an internet scammer wants out of a payment system. Of course we're going to be sensitive - what your 'friend' is trying to do is unethical and morally wrong. Because I'm getting paid to. And gimmie a break. The majority of people here are pumping bitcoin for the interests of their holdings going up in value. And we're failing spectacularly, because our holdings are only FALLING in value. What the fuck are you talking about? Bitcoin's up big time since 1 year ago. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: skooter on April 13, 2014, 08:13:35 AM Be aware that everything you do in Bitcoin will be recorded forever. There will be no statute of limitations on crimes involving Bitcoins. Ask yourself this; will there ever be a way to track Bitcoins back to you? The answer is undoubtedly yes. Don't do it. Karma will come back with a vengeance and it might be several years from now when you least expect it. Imagine getting your life just right, then losing everything because of something dumb you did on a network that stores transaction history indefinitely... Be smart. All right, here's the issue. So basically, the site he's running is unprofitable, and has been unprofitable since the start, and he's been using customer funds to pay for operating expenses. So at this point the site's under water, and it doesn't look like things are going to turn around. At this moment, he has about 50% of customer funds left. He also borrowed money from people (IRL) to start up the site. Even if he wanted to return people's money, he couldn't. And he'd rather rip off a bunch of people on the internet then owe people money IRL, so he's going to take off with the coins and abandon the site. It's not a lot of coins either. He has 20 - 25 coins left of the 45 - 50 coins that are supposed to be in people's accounts at his site. Honestly, it's nothing new. This exact scenario has played out countless times with bitcoin related sites. Site starts up, gains some trust, uses customer funds to pay expenses thinking they'll turn a profit soon. Site never turns a profit, ends up under water, and takes off with what's left. Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: practicaldreamer on April 13, 2014, 08:52:27 AM Be aware that everything you do in Bitcoin will be recorded forever. There will be no statute of limitations on crimes involving Bitcoins. Ask yourself this; will there ever be a way to track Bitcoins back to you? The answer is undoubtedly yes. Don't do it. Karma will come back with a vengeance and it might be several years from now when you least expect it. Imagine getting your life just right, then losing everything because of something dumb you did on a network that stores transaction history indefinitely... Be smart. All right, here's the issue. So basically, the site he's running is unprofitable, and has been unprofitable since the start, and he's been using customer funds to pay for operating expenses. So at this point the site's under water, and it doesn't look like things are going to turn around. At this moment, he has about 50% of customer funds left. He also borrowed money from people (IRL) to start up the site. Even if he wanted to return people's money, he couldn't. And he'd rather rip off a bunch of people on the internet then owe people money IRL, so he's going to take off with the coins and abandon the site. It's not a lot of coins either. He has 20 - 25 coins left of the 45 - 50 coins that are supposed to be in people's accounts at his site. Honestly, it's nothing new. This exact scenario has played out countless times with bitcoin related sites. Site starts up, gains some trust, uses customer funds to pay expenses thinking they'll turn a profit soon. Site never turns a profit, ends up under water, and takes off with what's left. When I first read this thread I thought you were asking a legitimate question and some of the responses were a bit over the top. Then I thought you were being "clever" by using the Mt. Gox situation as some kind of backdrop (ie. a rhetorical point where your "friend" is in fact Mt. Gox). Now I'm thinking you might actually be serious. Please tell me you haven't come on to Bitcointalk to work out how you/your friend can steal bitcoins without being traced ??? Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: icet208 on April 13, 2014, 09:16:42 AM fckers...we must get rid of this fking scammers...theyr pulling bitcoin down...many have lost fate in bitcoin because of scammers and hackers..
Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: tzortz on April 13, 2014, 09:45:11 AM Heh, it's amazing how naive some people still are. A few months ago I found some noob who was having trouble with his wallet and was dumb enough to let me have remote access to his computer. You can guess what happened after that. This is what he said to another thread. This guy is a TROLL! >:( Title: Re: How difficult it is to actually trace someone's transaction? Post by: FUEPA on April 13, 2014, 02:54:45 PM * I don't want the merchant to know I paid him from my 10,000+ btc stash * I was one of the few who were able to withdraw from mtgox and don't want someone to trace my coins back to gox. How difficult would it be to trace these coins if I first put them through shared coin? |