Bitcoin Forum

People seem to forget what Bitcoin truly stands for sometimes and its disheartening. Bitcoin is not a get rich scheme or even remotely close to that. Bitcoin is a promise for freedom that no other fiat currency can provide. It is something that will only succeed if people want it to succeed, and it benefits everyone who uses it. Tbh everyone that I see who calls it a ponzi scheme or something arbitrary just doesn't understand it. They look at Bitcoin like every other asset and forget that its completely different. People in countries in Africa can't economically compete with people in America, but Bitcoin changes that. It provides a currency that is amoral and benefits everyone equally. Don't be distracted by short term moves in price and instead be focused on the fundamentals. That's all that really matters.

Here's some articles elaborating on this if interested:

http://www.panture.com/why-bitcoin-matters/

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/why-bitcoin-matters/ - This ones by Marc Andreesen, prominent defender

+1

Agree. But unfortunately people hear about the huge yearly % increases and just see $$$ signs :(

Yeah many here dont really care about buying items with bitcoin, there looking to make quick bucks which is sad,

thats why we love bitcoin and its the future

Bitcoin promises nothing, just promises early adopter rich.

every investment promises early adopters to be rich.
To make a fair distribution for a new currency requires a centralized distributer, which totally don't mix with humans.

bitcoin will be around for hundreds of years (2140 atleast)... so you being here now, makes you an early adopter. so dont complain.

satoshi, was not rich 12 months after starting bitcoin, gavinA wasn't rich 12 months later.

but now 3-4 years have passed. those first adopters are rich. and if you are still interested in bitcoin after 3-5 years, you will be too. but in all cases, you need to put your own individual effort in to get good results in return. satoshi and gavin truly 'earned' the results they have got. and anyone that can pt effort into making bitcoin better, can do the same to maximise their wealth

Agreed, many need to get back to basics and remember what BTC is and not focus so much on the day to day price swings. BTC is here to stay.

And this is exactly why it will succeed. There is more money to be made with bitcoin than anything else the financial sector can offer. Bitcoin will inevitably fills the holes in broken economic systems around the world.

People seem to forget that they do not have the collective wisdom to tell everyone what bitcoin is to them.

 :'( Beautifully said

It's more disheartening that people don't understand what fractional reserve banking and inflation are. They are ignorant so they get screwed by the banksters and PTB. At least being ignorant of the freedom that bitcoin offers does not directly harm them. They will get taken along for the ride :)

I think most people have been apathetic to even learn about such matters because there was not much hope to escape the system.  With bitcoin, everything changes.

fiat is the bases for banker controlled government as bankers print money and get the benefit of seniorage

in a  bitcoin based economy, it will be lead by people as people get the seniorage of minting bitcoin
we will truely experience a real direct democratic government as the bitcoin rich can influence government and bitcoin will promote direct democracy instead of this representative democracy which clearly is not working

we will achieve true democratic utopia if bitcoin succeeds and fiat fails

But most people want to be rich not freedom. How should I invite these people to join? I am just ashamed to say something without refering to the wealth.

You don't. Let them fail.

Freedom rewards those that embrace it the most. Those trying to get a nibble of those rewards without embracing it will ultimately fail with the rest of their brethren.

good words

Does it occur to you that the freedom many people crave, especially but not only in the developing world, is freedom from poverty?

Only people who are already financially comfortable complain that Bitcoin is about freedom, not wealth.

And in terms of marketing / promoting Bitcoin, yes, people should be told there are no guarantees, so caveat emptor.  But we most certainly should also use the fact that Bitcoin has already made many earlier adopters rich, and could do so again for those who invest now. 

The reason is that people act from self-interest.  SN understood that. It's in everyone's interest for transactions to be processed and the block chain to be secured. But no-one is going to altruistically mine for the common good to their own detriment. So SN implemented transaction fees and block rewards. That way transactions are processed and the block chain is secured, but it happens as a result of miners wanting to become rich(er).

Why do people buy lottery tickets? You've got more chance of being trampled to death by a herd of stampeding wildebeest in the middle of Westminster Abbey than of winning millions on any national/state lottery (well, almost). But people buy those tickets anyway because they want to become rich.

Bitcoin is an investment opportunity that offers a much greater chance (though not a guarantee) of becoming rich if you invest now.

Promoting Bitcoin in a way that appeals to people's self-interest could well encourage wider adoption in my view.

When people recognise that Bitcoin could make them a lot of money when it goes mainstream and they buy some bitcoins as a result, they then have a vested interest in seeing Bitcoin succeed.

When the number of people with a vested interest in seeing Bitcoin go mainstream reaches a critical point, then major businesses will all start lining up to take payment by Bitcoin, because they want the custom of all those bitcoiners.

Bitcoin has already made earlier adopters rich. It could still make others rich if they invest now. People act from self-interest, so if we want Bitcoin to succeed we should appeal to their self-interest. 

Freedom and wealth is the same thing.

When I rant about bitcoin to random people, I get a response from about one in ten. But don't forget, many of those are statists, they think that some people have the right to push other people around. Let them roast in their own fat, say I.

(To one half persuaded guy, I had to say "Now you know, don't criticize me for not persuading you harder". He is still not in, AFAIK).

Then you had better hope the average BTC user is nothing like the average poster here at this forum. Just look at some of the ridiculous threads and the even more ridiculous posts in those threads. I have never seen so many predictions about BTC price and I have never seen so many predictions about anything so far off.

Being rich IS having freedom.

As poverty = (wage)slavery, so wealth = freedom from slavery in capitalism.

I speak from experience, college dropout wage-slave here, now unemployed.

We don't talk about freedom. Don't wake up the sleeping beast. Hsssh.

if you think bitcoin promises you anything, you probably shouldn't be playing this game. no one knows what will happen because there has been nothing like bitcoin in the past.

bitcoin isn't some angel currency either, and there's a pretty good chance that it won't help with equality.. i mean, look at ghash.io's shares, or how many whales we have.

Far from all earlier adopters are rich, some certainly are.
Bitcoin is perfect for libertarians who want to make money, since they have at least 2 major reasons to be involved with Bitcoin. For "the masses" appealing to their self-interest is fine, since that is human nature meeting reality.

Please note "appealing to your self-interest" doesn't == "get rich scheme". Bitcoin is good for a hedge against declines in paper money and that will become more obvious as time goes by.

yeah but honestly, self-gain reigns supreme. it seems like most people here are vested into bitcoin because they want to help their own personal wealthy; anything else comes as a byproduct. can't blame people though, this is the world we live in.. everybody must fend for themselves.

Good for self and good for others are not mutually exclusive.

If buying bitcoins, using bitcoins, etc... Is good for self and good for others,
Does it really matter WHY a person chooses to do that?   

I would argue the motivations behind it, the spirit, the attitude, mostly
Affects that person.  If I am in a greedy mindset, it is only myself that
Will be consumed by greed.  But others will still benefit.

This is really nothing new.  Money has always been that way.

You can see money in a greedy light, in a compassionate light,
In a needy light...

Whatever is your internal state and energy and vibe toward the world,
That is how you will see the world, money, and bit coin.

It is common to have an ideal of altruism. But there is a problem.

This is a famous article by Susan Wolf about moral saints:
http://philosophyfaculty.ucsd.edu/faculty/rarneson/Courses/susanwolfessay1982.pdf (http://philosophyfaculty.ucsd.edu/faculty/rarneson/Courses/susanwolfessay1982.pdf)

It is ok to be kind to others, but you can end up destroying yourself. So her conclusion is that you should seek the virtue of unselfishness, but up to a limit. This problem often shows up in practise. You see a friend is being overworked, and unhappy, and you tell him: Take a break, go to a vacation, do something for yourself for a change. Wise people will know that it is neccessary to be somewhat selfish, maybe "steal" some time for themselves or grant themselves some kind of goody now and then without telling others.

So here is the problem: You have a moral (to not be selfish), but you can not follow it, because you destroy yourself. I don't like that, because I want my moral to be consistent. If I have a moral rule that I can not follow, I want to ditch it and replace it with something that I can use.

That is the rational self interest. It is rational, because it leads to the result you want. It goes like this: You wake up, you choose to wash, dress up and eat. Because it is good. Then you choose to go to school or work. Maybe you would rather stay home, but you choose to go anyway, because you have another goal: Salary, career, respect. Then you want to see a friend. You choose that, because you know that interacting with friends is good for you. You keep your promises, because you want others to trust you. You are peaceful and forcefully protect your rights and the rights of others, because you want them to feel safe when you are around.

Why do you do this? Not for them, for yourself, because you want a good life. So there is this hierarchy of choices, and you make choices for your own good. Basically, when you wake up, you have the choice to live or to die, and you choose to live. That is rational self interest.

tl; dr altruism is good if not overused. Rational self interest is the way to go.

You forgot about Facebook and Twitter. Speaking strictly of growth rates, the S-curves for all 3 are nearly identical (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI).

Sure thing is that BTC can be used for better future and easier life, but another truth is that BTC is Asset, face it. And that's not even a problem, since people using it for trading or ''gettin rich'' like you said is gonna help BTC become more and more popular, and that's what we really need, we need global acceptance.