Bitcoin Forum

Fraud is easy? Really? Why?

due to paypal payment can be canceled.

try specoin.com

but you should first find some good reference before buying anything.
I have no experience with them,

There are ppl selling BTC on Ebay...you can buy there with paypal.

Paypal and Bitcoin don't mix well. Paypal transactions can easily be disputed, while Bitcoin transactions are final. This brings in a lot of room for abuse. Now with the spreading rumors of mass account bans related to Bitcoin, I think it's not very wise to use Paypal and Bitcoin together.

Has anyone actually confirmed the Paypal "ban" on everything bitcoin related by the way?

Don't know, only noticed an influx of threads related to such. Best safe than sorry, right?

Oh yes definitely, I would avoid using PayPal. However rumors have been spread before that has hurt bitcoin somewhat and later on being proven false. Hopefully this one will too. But in the meantime it's best to avoid it I guess.

Actually, I've seen many cases, before the rumors, of accounts trading BTC<->PP getting banned/frozeb several days after a trade. I think Paypal regard Bitcoin as a payment method and exchanging from one payment method to another (if one of them is Paypal) is not allowed according to their TOS.

I took a look at some traders like BitStamp, but they require you to deal with bank accounts, the first time I read about the Bitcoin I was told that one of the advantages that it has over fiat currencies is that you don't need to deal with banks... So that statement isn't totally true due to the fact that if you want to purchase or sell bitcoins, you need to use a bank account, unless there is some LEGIT trader accepting Paypal.

Also I would like to the deal with the lower amount as possible, at least 1$.

due to paypal payment can be canceled.

try specoin.com

but you should first find some good reference before buying anything.
I have no experience with them,

Specoin is indeed a scam, took 1 minute to find out when googling it.

Looks like you are right. The site has spammed bitcointalk and reddit a lot.

Maybe the account Wusolini has been hacked? Or he is the one behind the site?

Fraud is easy with Paypal, so you will not see many people accepting it.

as much as I see I can only cancel an unclaimed payment, right?

You can do a chargeback on most if not all payments.

I see many ppl on localbitcoins uses it.

I see many ppl on localbitcoins uses it.

It's safe as long as the person who sends it is trustworthy, but most who appear trustworthy end up scamming eventually. All you have to do is complain to PayPal that you didnt issue the payment and you get your money back. As easy as that.

What to say to paypal, someone hacked my account or what?

What to say to paypal, someone hacked my account or what?

What to say to paypal, someone hacked my account or what?

Are you going to try scam somebody or something?

Are you going to try scam somebody or something?

No, I am trying to protect myself from scamming. Can he scam me if he send me a payment as a gift?

The only legit PayPal trader is IvanRussia on LocalBitcoins.

Used him twice, never had a problem.

The only legit PayPal trader is IvanRussia on LocalBitcoins.

Used him twice, never had a problem.

How can you say he is the only legit one?

He is the only trader with more than 475 positive feedback and no negative feedback. A few others are also there, such as CoinPro, but they have lesser number of positive feedback and their commissions are much higher.

He buys for Bitcoin? You can't say he's the only leigit seller though.

No. He does not buy Bitcoins. He only sells them.

How does he insure he doesnt get scammed?

Maybe he just takes the risk with the high premium like ebay sellers used to do.

How does he insure he doesnt get scammed?

No idea about that. But he sells Bitcoin in exchange for both Paypal and OKPay. Charges a premium of 17.5% if Paypal is used, and 0% if OKPay is used. That means he expects at least some of the buyers to scam him.

Must be something else to it. I imagine scammers will just take  advantage of this all the time.

Same. Once they find someone accepts paypal it's quickly exploited until they use it no more.

Same. Once they find someone accepts paypal it's quickly exploited until they use it no more.

I have never traded with him. But he has so far conducted 478 successful trades, including some high-volume ones. If he was frequently scammed, then he might have stopped with 20 or 25 trades. That didn't happened. So all I can say is that this guy must be really intelligent. He must be taking enough precautions to not get scammed.

Or maybe he's just a person who trusts others, and so far has been successful doing so. Not everyone is a scammer on the internet, but there are a lot of them.

If he just puts blind trust in people he would be repeatedly scammed.

You say it is possible to reverse any transaction with Paypal? I'd like to know how, because it seems to me that Paypal is in bed with the scammers and will rule in favor of the seller of a digital good if you were stupid enough to use paypal to pay for it. This is my experience anyway. If there is a way around it, I'd love to know what it is in order to get my money back.

They use a credit card to fund Paypal, and then dispute the charge on the credit card. The credit card company does a chargeback and Paypal will have to comply or it will eat the loss.

No one around here accepts paypal for long cause they usually get burned within a few trades.

How come some do accept paypal? I am confused as I am new to bitcoin.

A few people accept Paypal because for them its easier than having to arrange a bank deposit/wire transfer/face to face cash exchange. But in general those that do will only deal with long time reputable members so they can be pretty sure they won't get chargebacked. You'd be better off assuming no one will accept PP - those that do won't deal with newbies and the likes.

Virwox is a good choice, used them pretty much all of the time. Haven't have any issues with them. However, do take note that their fees are really high. I guess its mainly due to the fact that it's difficulty to prevent paypal charge backs.

The fees ain't a problem. But since we have to do the currency conversion two times, and the trade volume is generally low, sometimes we are forced to buy Bitcoins at a considerable premium.

The fees ain't a problem. But since we have to do the currency conversion two times, and the trade volume is generally low, sometimes we are forced to buy Bitcoins at a considerable premium.

There have been an increasing number of posts from recently registered users wanting to buy bitcoins with PayPal. While new users may indeed be enthusiastic about Bitcoin and be accustomed to using PayPal for prior purchases, this type of request is also exactly what scammers do to steal bitcoins. It is relatively simple to charge back or dispute any PayPal payment after receiving irrevocable bitcoins, and scam purchases are used as a way to empty stolen PayPal accounts.

Traditional payment networks (including PayPal) suffer inherent weaknesses:

• Some payment fraud is unavoidable,
• Completely non-reversible transactions are not possible; payment processors are involved in disputes,
• Identity fraud and remote account takeover using stolen credentials are possible,
• Payment processors can block funds and freeze accounts,
• You must provide your credit card or account number to sites, which can be stolen by hackers to spend your money.

Bitcoin has none of these problems:

• Confirmed Bitcoin payments are absolutely trustable,
• Payments are non-reversible; money cannot be recalled by the sender,
• Identity theft is a non-issue - payment recipients don't need to obtain the identity of buyers or store personal information to take payments,
• Nobody else can interfere with your Bitcoin balance or your ability to send or receive money,
• You are in control of your money - when you send a payment, the recipient or hackers cannot make other fraudulent withdraws from your wallet.

Why is it difficult to purchase Bitcoins with your old-fashioned money?

If this is the fault of Bitcoin, it is because Bitcoin is too good. If you receive a payment with Bitcoin, you can be 100% sure that the money is yours and it can't be disputed or taken back out of your wallet. PayPal, Credit cards, ACH checking transfer and money wires, Chase Quickpay, Dwolla, and most any other banking payments, however, can be reversed - they are less trustworthy than the Bitcoins you are trying to buy.

This is why even Bitcoin exchanges have rigorous verification procedures - they need to verify your identity thoroughly, not because of Bitcoin, but because they are taking your government currency, transferred through banks and payment processors, which is fundamentally problematic. Exchanges that only deal with Bitcoin-based virtual currencies (such as Bitcoin to Namecoin) have no such identity requirements.

In addition, PayPal specifically disallows currency exchanges, and are Bitcoin-hostile. When you complain that you were ripped off, it's just as likely your account will be frozen.


So how can you obtain bitcoins, if nobody on the Internet can tell the difference between you and a foreign crime syndicate? If you don't wish to go through the lengthy verification procedures on exchanges, I recommend you first investigate local traders who are willing to exchange bitcoins in person. Sites such as https://localbitcoins.com/ or http://www.tradebitcoin.com/ may help you find local Bitcoin users. Also, Bitcoin is for commerce - sell something and accept Bitcoin!