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Sandisk announces 4TB SSD, hopes for 8TB next year.

"We see reaching the 4TB mark as really just the beginning and expect to continue doubling the capacity every year or two, far outpacing the growth for traditional HDDs," Manuel Martull, SanDisk's product & solutions marketing director, stated in an email reply to Computerworld.


http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9248070/SanDisk_announces_4TB_SSD_hopes_for_8TB_next_year

SSD prices are still too high to abandon HDD.

Yeah, I imagine it'll be quite a while before these become affordable. Might as well just stick with a 3TB drive or 2 2 x 2TB ones. I'm looking forward to the next generation of storage disks like this though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

too early to say good bye to HDDs. we are at least 2-3 years away i think.

Today maybe but the price per GB is also falling at a rate far faster than traditional magnetic storage.  The writing is on the wall.  Still HDD are probably not going away completely for a decade, but they are going to get pushed further and further into a niche over the next few years.

Flash already dominates small form factor devices (smartphones, tablets, consumer electronics, etc).  At one time HDD held in all those areas.  There were HDD in compact flash format, early mp3 players used small hdd, some video cameras recorded to DVD or HDD.  You can't find HDD based products in those areas any more.  

The next HDD market to be killed off is probably the laptop.  The form factor is smaller (2.5" vs 3.5") and the prices are higher ($0.10 to $0.20).  So it is an easier fight and the marginal cost increase isn't much relative to whole system cost.  Flash has the advantages of lower power consumption, less noise, higher reliability when it comes to shock.   The relentless march of Moores law will kill that market off too.

At the high end RAID using enterprise SSD is being considered more seriously in applications where IOPS are critical (like database servers).  A 2U server can mount 24 2.5" SSDs which is just an insane storage density
http://www.supermicro.com/a_images/products/Chassis/2U/216/SC216BA-R9920UB_spec.jpg

Of course hard drive companies aren't stupid, their strongest area is high capacity low performance applications (backups, nearline storage, archiving, etc) so HDD are going to get much bigger to stay competitive.   So it is win-win all around.  Still if I was WD I would be looking to buy a flash company. :)

i have a 128 GB ssd drive that i bought for $65 a year ago.. i don't think it has been worth it so far. i usually have anywhere between 45 to 53GB free, but i often end up deleting stuff or storing on my portable HDD.

I think the horse buggy manufacturers said the same thing about new automobiles.   :)

The article didn't mention what prices will cost so who knows if they will be affordable or not.  And if you need a large capacity (and fast) drive then SSDs will be your only option.  As mass adoption comes into play I suspect the prices will fall significantly.  I don't see anyway for a mechanical hard disk to compete with a SSD in the next 2-3 years.  They are too slow, prone to mechanical failure, use more electricity, and will be limited on storage capacity.


Regarding new storage disks formats (DVD Format), How would you like to have one of these?:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/159245-new-optical-laser-can-increase-dvd-storage-up-to-one-petabyte

HVD is essentially dead.  It was an expensive concept in 2004 and both HDD and SSD have gotten significantly cheaper since then.  Lots of hype, lots of promises, lots of missed deadlines.  Silicon is an amazing thing.  A 1024 GB flash drive is essentially a 512 GB flash drive with chips that have double the density.  If you can make one you can eventually make the other.   Moore's law eventually means the larger one is cheaper than the smaller one use to be.  Look at memory (64K to 16GB) or CPU speed (1 Mhz to 8 cores @ 3.5 GHz) over 40 years.  Optical has never been able to match that kind of progress.

Well, I just linked to that one as an example, but I know there's other types of discs currently in development or have been developed, I just couldn’t remember the names of them.

dont sleep for 2 weeks have an overtime in your job save money go in diet then you can buy that thing :D

Both SSD and HDD technologies are at crossroads.

State of the art SSDs are using 8 or so electrons per bit.  Three more doublings of capacity and we will be at one electron per bit - if that is even possible to build.

State of the art HDD write head size is as small as physics allows (any smaller and they won't be able to write).  But, since read heads can be much smaller we are starting to lay down the tracks like the shingles on a roof.  We write a track (write head width) but instead of moving over one track width for the next track we only move over 1/2 a track.  We then write the new track on top of half of the previous track.  This leaves just enough signal in the remaining 1/2 width track to be able to recover your data from the noise with massive error correction on every sector.

BTW SSDs use even more error correction than HDDs to pull your data out of the noise at the 8 electron per bit level.

Theoretically, we might be able to push SMR (Shingled Magnetic Recording) to a 1:10 write/read width ratio.  In other words we would write a track and then just move over a little bit and write over 90% of the old track leaving only 10% of the previous track.  Just doing the 1/2 track shingle today is, by far, the hardest project I have worked on in my 25 years in the HDD industry.  Squeezing the tracks even more would require whole new multidimentional error correcting codes capable of recovering the data for a single track by reading and analyzing the data from two tracks on either side of the track of interest.  In other words we would read 5 of these tiny slivers of track, analyze the whole thing and be able to hopefully recover the data from the track in the middle.  The math and silicon to do this does not exist yet.

awesome maybe someday i will buy one if have more btc to spend but as of now i will feel content at hdd

I am happy that I have 60GB SSD and I bought it for like 1/3 of my monthly wage 2 years ago. I wonder how much will cost these 4TB SSD. I bet price will be total overkill for me.

how much did you get your 60gb?

maybe even 4-5.

the prices of SSD are coming down, but still cost too much compared to HDD

Im sure HDD will be around for another 10yrs, So how many years can a SSD hold its data

How much does a 4 TB SSD cost right now? I can get a Seagate HDD 4 TB Desktop Internal Hard Drive from the Amazon for just under $200. I don't think that the SDD will ever get this much cheap. The WD 4TB 3 1/2" Desktop Internal Hard Drive is even cheaper.

http://www.staples.com/WD-4TB-3-1-2-inch-Desktop-Internal-Hard-Drive-Green/product_IM1TA9583?externalize=certona

Never bet against silicon.  Due to Moore's law the cost of a CPU in terms of computing power per dollar has improved by a factor of nearly one billion.  This is something we kinda take for granted but this level of improvement doesn't occur in anything other than semiconductors.  Cars are better today than they were in the 1970s but they aren't a billion times cheaper in terms of performance per dollar.   Housing construction has been improved but the cost of a house in terms of $/sq foot hasn't been reduced by a factor of a billion.    

I am sure in 1980 someone said the same thing about CPUs, and they ended up being wrong by many many many orders of magnitude.  The same thing will happen with SSD.  It is only a matter of when.

I bought a 60GB SSD few years ago, just wanted to see if it's really better than HDD, and it is. Small, quiet, fast, stays cool, consumes less electricity. The only downside is it was overpriced as hell, You could buy a whole laptop for the cost of 3 of those.

yeah pretty much. it's also economics - scale economies. in the mid 90's, a midrange computer would run you $2,000. it had windows 3.1 on it and couldn't even play compressed mp3 music.

People still manufacture, buy and use tape.  In fact there is still research going on to increase the data density on tape.

HDD will be around for years.

HDD cannot improve much further but ssd can.

Don't ever buy them from big brand stores like Staples or PC World. You can get them much cheaper if you look around online or on ebay. I got a brand new Western Digital 4tb external hard drive for a little over £100 on ebay a while back.

i bought my 128GB kingston v3 SSD for $65 over 1 year ago. everywhere else, it was at least $80. staples has some of the best deals if you know hwo to shop with them.

buying on ebay, there's no guarantee and your warranty might be voided if it's not from a retailer.

I don't want to use Ebay anymore. In the past, I had some serious issues with them. Yes... I agree that some of the deals are cheaper than those available on the other sites... but not taking the risk anymore.  >:(

I don't know about in the USA but over here Staples is very expensive, especially for things like drives. You don't have to get them from ebay, there are always smaller stores selling them cheaper.


What issues did you have?

I actually got some of my drives from PC World's ebay store and they were much cheaper by about £20-30 than the actual in-store or online price. Came with warranties too.

maybe it's different in the UK. everything there seems to be more expensive. sucker.

Yes, the prices will dive dramatically in the future.
Last time I bought an HDD the retail price was 50% lower in a little over a year.

By the looks of things I would say tapes may get a second life.

185TB Cassette Tapes
http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/4/5681066/sony-blows-away-record-with-185tb-cassette-tape

SSD is at 8 electrons per bit so only three more very very difficult doublings.  They are working on some other tricks.

HDD has HAMR, SMR, HAMR+SMR, pattern media, other tricks.

About the same horizons on both.

Not sure where you get this idea from.  SSD are NAND transistors.  Even at 20nm the transistors are 30 to 40 atoms across and each Silicon atom has 14 atoms electrons. No silicon circuit works on individual electrons.  Retrieving or writing a bit of flash ends up involving millions of electrons.  Maybe you are conflating MLC and TLC (storing two or three bits per cell) with number of electrons?  Not sure.

Once I bought a laptop from Ebay, which got damaged just after two weeks. The seller refused to issue me a replacement, saying that it was my fault. Contacted the Ebay staff, but no use there.

ebay is really unreliable. a lot of sellers who sell used shit don't put proper descriptions. recently bought a laptop and the details weren't very accurate.

Lol.....pic reply was perfect.

I have stopped purchasing anything of value from Ebay, even when they are offering steep discounts. What is the use in getting a 30% discount, when the product itself can be unreliable?

A flash cell is a special transistor with a floating gate.  It is like a very tiny capacitor.  The difference between the charged state and the uncharged state is used to represent/store a 1 or a 0 in SLC flash or on a MLC flash various charge levels are used to represent the stored information.  The floating gate itself is made of a small piece of material that may have a lot of electrons but it is the extra electrons that are pushed on the gate when charged that I am talking about.

I am a bit mad at myself because it looks like I was wrong.  I could have sworn I had a reference that showed that sub 20nm flash was sub 10 electrons on the floating gate in the charged state.  I cannot find that reference.  The reference I did find here:

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~tking/theses/whkwon.pdf

in figure 1.14 still shows 10's of electrons on the floating gate all the way down to 10nm.

My point that the feature size does have a physical limit is valid and eventually we will run into this physical limit.

The absolute limit for this technology (storing information by charge on a floating gate) would be one electron per bit.

Found the source of my confusion and memory lapse.  The sub 10 electron number was not the total number of electrons on the floating gate.  It was the number of electrons that cause a 100 mV shift.  See page 7 of this reference:

http://www.flashmemorysummit.com/English/Collaterals/Proceedings/2012/20120821_TA12_Yoon_Tressler.pdf

It shows that at a 10nm feature size a loss of less than 10 electrons causes a change of 100 mV.

The above presentation is full of very interesting statistics related to flash.

i don't like ebay's fees for selling either. exorbitant fees. it's going to be something like 14% of your revenues.

See data retention on page 9 of this reference:

http://www.flashmemorysummit.com/English/Collaterals/Proceedings/2012/20120821_TA12_Yoon_Tressler.pdf

I don't really sell that much on eBay anymore due to the high fees, but it's still unfortunately pretty much the best place to sell stuff, though I wish it wasn't. As for having trouble with buying on eBay, you've just got to pick the sellers wisely. A major chain could also easily just say you broke it and it's not covered under the warranty too. If you ever buy something that isn't as described you can send it back and you'll get your money back off PP in most cases.

use craigslist mate.. if you are trying to get rid of your junk. i don't sell junk though, just stuff i buy from a wholesaler to re-sell.

Does Craigslist even operate in the UK? I know we have gumtree, but those kind of sites are always less popular and seem kinda sketchy and tend to be more scammy to me.

Impressive. I like it a lot.
It will be cool to have ultrasmall computer case with just monitor some day :)
Maybe then we will be finally in position to bring whole PC with us, just as laptop or some smartphone.
But I guess that day will come. This is proof of that.

SSD is nice the problem for me is that it doesn't have much space compared to non SSD
60 GB vs 1 T is still quite the difference that and the cost difference

+1
Furhtermore if you see how Linux is performing over HDD you would reconsider your statement.
My Debian + LXDE is runnig as fast as ***** and is beating all Windows SSDs.

I would not imagine why I would need SSD for it.

Nice one I deserved that.

But most of the games on computers run on Windows, so for an average user the SSD is the future. As for the price, every new technology with time gets less expensive 

I guess there are still many different alternatives right now out there. It shouldn't be actual problem when we look on it from this point of view.

When it comes to HDD, well this day had to come sooner or later. Maybe now they are going to implement them into our fridges.

SSD price expensive is now. I still use the hard disk :-\

And this is where UEFI & GPT partition tables come into place :D.


Look into hyperduo http://www.marvell.com/storage/system-solutions/sata-controllers/hyperduo/

&

Intel® Smart Response Technology
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/smart-response-technology.html


Other tricks, check out https://www.samsung.com/ch/business-images/resource/white-paper/2014/01/Whitepaper-Samsung_SSD_Rapid_Mode-0.pdf

=================
looks of it, Death and taxes & Burtw knows their shit.  ;D  8)
=================

Publicity at best, hdd isn't going any where. SSD's has only so much life to live vs a hdd, not including hardware failures for both.

Edited: a few times.

Once you go SSD you never go back. I built a computer with an SSD about 2 years ago and I haven't bought a single HDD since. I uninstall games and not using and stuff like that to deal with having a little less storage, and add SSDs when the space problem becomes critical. I have two workstations both with all SSDs. You really can't even begin to compare the difference and once you get used to it... it'd be like trying to go back to dialup if I went back to HDDs lol.

I've got a samsung 840pro 128gb for OS, vertex260gb for cryptocurrency blocks, both fast as hell and a nice WD Re WD1003FBYZ 1TB hdd for storage fast as hell too.

atm i am reinstalling an os for a friend on a laptop, gwd the 5400 rpm hdd gots me drove nuts.

ripped vista off, installing win732bitsp1 then updates..

then installing cashier driver so it can speak with the bars cash register then set all that shit up.

talk bout fun.

I have had really good luck with the Crucial M4 SSDs (128 and 256gb different releases and models,) and I am trying out a Kingston 60gb SSD for my most recent mining rig.

4TB SSD?  It's too expensive now ,maybe I shuould wait for some year.

Why do you need that much storage though? Honestly I have never needed more than a few hundred gigs. You guys are serious packrats lmao.

Taking video or even screen recording games takes a ton of space. Also don't forget video editing takes a lot of space. Also, if you get 4 4TB SSD's and raid them into raid10, you got some major speed/space/reliability of your files just in case a ssd dies. If I calculate this correctly 4 4TB ssd's in raid 1+0 you only get 8 TB of actual usable space.

Edit:
Wide screen pics or tifs can get upto 500MB in size or larger.

Exactly. Anyone who works with video editing will need this sort of space. I guess if you even just download a lot of high quality movies you'll soon fill up 4TB as well.

If you only watch high quality movies you don't need SSD. A normal HDD is good enough for that ;)

Even the crappiest HDD is fine (sequential reads) to playback 1080p video.  

Get a SSD for OS, applications and other latency sensitive data and use a spinning disk for bulk media. Win-win.  Even better since the spinning magnetic platters are so cheap get two and put them in RAID1 and forget about it.

Depends how many you have, but I wasn't suggesting one over the other any way.

SSD disc are our future, there is no doubt about that. But for now we are fine with standard HDD discs for normal usage.

But HDD break pretty easily or become inaccessible. I've never used any of these SSD before but they look like the way to go, but they wont be affordable for quite a few years I reckon.

Small ones are pretty cheap these days.  NewEgg has 120GB for as cheap as $60 although I would spend a little more and get a better drive.  Can't beat a Corsair M500 or Samsung 840 evo for ~$80 http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-benchmark,3269-2.html .  

That is why I said using both is a compromise.  SSD for OS, applications and data where random access matters (like the blockchain).  A pair of cheap high capacity HDD in RAID 1 (for reliability) for storage of "stuff" (backups, videos, ISOs, etc).  Now a laptop can be a tougher challenge as you often only have one drive bay but with 120GB SSD at under $100 I would still go that route and move backups and less frequently used data off the laptop.

MLC is the reason I picked the 840pro over the slc evo.

MLC more expensive, longer lasting.

SLC, cheaper less life than the mlc.

Some laptops come with dual hdd/ssd bays.

You have that backwards. 

SLC is more expensive, faster, and has more write cycles
MLC (2 bits per cell) is less expensive, slower, and has less write cycles.
TLC (3 bits per cell used in 840 EVO) is just an evolution of MLC which in theory would be even slower but the 840 EVO holds its own.

Derp, brain fart. As u said backwards, got TLC and SLC backwards. Mean't TLC is under MLC.

SO GOOD :D

Very interesting....too bad I have a feeling the price is going to make this out of everybody's reach. The end of magnetic hard drives is near.

The key is price. 8)

SSD for system / OS. i use sandisk xtreme 2 128 GB
HDD for multimedia data. use 4x 4TB WD Mybook
HDD still use for save data, especially bluray rip film

that's enough for me.
where can i buy ssd using BTC?

tigerdirect.com?

They're alright for smaller sizes, but I need several TBs to store all my videos and music etc, so not exactly practical for me at the moment, but I agree with you on everything else. It's annoying having to have other drives just to have everything backed up, because I know how easily they break. I've had two die on me in the past, but my WD Elements drives have worked without a hitch for several years (I hope I haven't tempted fate there haha).

True, I recently bought an SSD just for starting up my desktop quickly and some other applications. It's definitely way superior to HDD but yes, the prices are still a bit too high. Having said that though, computer technology evolves at such a rapid rate we will see HDDs being phased out completely probably within a decade.

I guess it depends on your needs but I still fail to see why anyone "needs" more than a few hundred gb. Now you can purchase a few hundred GB of sdd storage for about the same price that a few hundred gb of HDD storage used to cost a few years ago.

`idk why i can't access that site
maybe my country IP was blocked :(
Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.tigerdirect.com/" on this server.

i'll try using VPS

Anyone who owns more than 100 digital films or works with film editing.


The site isn't loading up for me either. I'm just getting a Server not found error.

Video editors sure but I doubt too many people posting here are legitimately video editors. Most are probably just storing 500 million pirated movies and games lol. And porn.

And what would be wrong with any of that? And video editing isn't the only use for massive amounts of storage.

All I'm saying is I think easily 90+% of computer users could get by just fine with 200-300 gigs of storage space if they weren't total digital packrats.

It's not uncommon for people to have a terrabyte or two of storage. People are obviously buying them for many reasons. People with large music collections will easily need more than 200-300, especially if you've ripped them in lossless format.

I'm glad I don't have those problems. Then what do you do, have an extra terabyte for backup? Or just cry for a week when the hdd dies and you lose everything lol?

You should always have a back up of your stuff. Just don't wait to learn the hardway. I'd recommend buying a Blu-ray writer and backing up your stuff to Blu ray discs as well as an extra measure. That's what I do.

Well in my case for the past ten years not a single hard drive has died. As for my friends they also never mentioned any major problems with HDD, so maybe it doesn't happen too often.

Not if you drop it or a tiny bit of dust gets into it. I had a couple die and I know other people who have had a couple die on them too. It's surprising they last as long as they do given the fragile moving parts they have, but they're not indestructible and I'd make sure you have back-ups of your stuff before you tempt fate.

Backing up a terabyte to optical media has got to take a lot of time and effort lol. I think I'll just stick to using a sane amount of storage space and only backing up the few critical items that I would be upset about losing. Oh, and using SSDs with no moving parts. That too.

If you drop a hard drive no wonder :) But I guess if you drop the SSD the same can happen.
As for doing back ups I don't have that important things on my PC (well maybe just one good porn movie ;))

I'am still using HDD because it's way cheaper than SSD! so no good bye from me  :P

on prices, if you have a microcenter near you, sometimes they have very nice walk in deals. ssd's, processors ect.

They don't have any moving parts though do they? I guess that makes them a lot more resistant to drops etc. You sometimes only have to knock it and it can fuck up the read/write needle (or whatever it is)/

I have had one or two HDDs that just died for no apparent reason over the years. They were not dropped, they were just sitting in my desktop and one day decided to retire without any physical incident.

They can die just from getting dust in them apparently (though it's quite hard for dust to actually get into them), not to mention anything with fragile moving parts will break eventually.


http://www.computertipsfor.me/what-causes-hard-drives-to-fail/

http://www.computertipsfor.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/hard-drive-head-gap2.jpg

I see where you get your user name.

My mining room is so dusty but none of the HDD fail, so dead by dust is really rare...

I have an S.....e HDD from 1999 and is still working ...
But many other companie's HDDs i used in past had stopped in few years ...
Long Live HDD :)
IMO ...When SSD is cheaper maybe the HDD die ... but is very early now.

Agree, its all come to price. I believe HDD would still be cheaper in the coming many years... so HDD !!

Well, any one here still raid their hdds and use ramdisk?

Does anybody here have a link to a chart with $/GB for SSDs? Preferably one that also includes HDDs?

"expect to spend about 75 cents per gigabyte (GB) on an SSD in 2014"


http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/ssd_price_per_gb.png

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/hdd_price_per_gb-640x376.png
Here you go

That is exactly what I was looking for. There is a clear wide gap between HDDs and SSDs. Any known reasons for SSDs seeming to bounce back up?

I've had one drive die on me and lost all my stuff. Lesson learnd.

I'd currently buy one for maybe running my operating system on but not for storing all my files. They're too expensive at the moment, but I'll replace my HDDs when they become affordable to do so.

right. I cant wait for price to fall. Also I have too many bad experiences with HDD failure and los af data. Dont you guys know how is reliability of SDD, I know only about awesome speed.

I saw this a couple of weeks ago, which good news, but HDD will stay here for years to come
SSD Prices are rediculously expensive
SSD life cycle is way shorter than HDD (in perfect condition that is, this can swing rapidly toward SSD in some use conditions) and also these high density SDDs with lower costs have by default a lower endurance and life cycle

To the poster who asked about reliability, it depends on brand and model. When I got started with SSDs I did some research and Crucial was about the most reliably so I bought Crucial M4s. I have had great results with those. I am also currently using a Kingston 60gb drive in one of my mining rigs and have not had any issues with it.

I have some Crucial M4s that I've had and used pretty much daily for regular use, gaming, etc for 2+ years no with no issues.

well the price make me stay on hdd~

I got one to try and speed up huntercoin   ;D


I have read SSD wear out after a certain amount of read/writes  is that true?

Wow. Fuck Moore and his pessimistic law. $67 on Amazon with 2-day Prime shipping, now. Maybe time to upgrade from now-archaic 60GB Agility2 which has me staring at the WinDirStat screen every freakin' week (frequently-cleaned 17.5GB Windows folder doesn't help).

i have 512 GB SSD
now its target to me i will sure get this for next !
i will sure store my 50's movies in it

yeah .. not everyone can affords it .. nevertheless if i had the money money I would buy it :/

Still a good ssd, use it on the side if/when you get a new ssd, use the agility for cryptocurrency blocks.
Plenty of room left on my Vertex2 with BTC and LTC blocks.

https://i.imgur.com/x4nGogD.jpg

Yeah something like that but it is is a fairly high number. Everything has a shelf life - HDDs do too. And they have moving parts that can break unexpectedly or from minor trauma.

So does that mean defrag is a bad idea for this type of drive ?


*edit* I suppose it was about minimising head movement so maybe its totaly irrelavent?*/edit*

Defrag is completely pointless for an SSD and may actually degrade performance.

But their is an optimization you may use once in a great while.

This is an option under MyDefrag called flash memory disk.

http://www.mydefrag.com/Manual-UsingMyDefrag.html

I use it once in a great while in safemode.

Yeah I am pretty sure that is all technological voodoo.  The controller is already performing various optimizations which are outside the scope of the OS.  The OS believes it has control of the "disk" and it is writing or reading from a specific logical sector that maps to a set location on the disk however that isn't the case with SSDs.  It is just an illusion is maintained to provide backwards compatibility.  The controller is just using those logical sectors provided by the OS as lookup values and then writing data based on internal requirements to maximize performance and endurance.  A single write from the OS will be written across multiple flash chips.  The physical location may be changed by the controller and it simply updates the internal lookup table.  So the OS just sees write to a sector, read from the sector, erase the sector but the controller is performing a lot of internal state recording to maintain that illusion that these sectors even exist.  

All this is done to maintain backwards compatibility with ATA standard but it does mean that where the OS believes the data is stored has been reduced to little more than a lookup value.  If SSD has similar properties to HDD then it probably wouldn't matter however SSD are radically different than the HDD they "pretend" to be.  NAND flash can't be overwritten, NAND flash must be erased and has a limited number of erase cycles, NAND flash can't be accessed at the cell level, instead an entire page needs to be read and written in one operation.  This means that behind the scenes what is happening on disk is very different than what is being indicated to the OS

http://codecapsule.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ssd-writing-data.jpg

I doubt limited use of mydefrag will hurt but it is dubious that it can provide any real world benefit.  The claim isn't exactly false but it is misleading.  Yes is the data is fragmented across multiple OS sectors and it might mean a few more IO requests at the sector level and possibly an additional CRC check or two but we are talking about a negligible performance overhead.  All the lower level "details" are simply lies from the SSD anyways and the software has no way to control the actual contents of the flash pages.

On edit: here is an article with similar conclusions (although they didn't test this particular software):
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2047513/fragging-wonderful-the-truth-about-defragging-your-ssd.html

Everything will move into the cloud over time. Everything will be online.

This.  SSDs and blockchain(s) are a good match.

Thanks for the tips

But it will take a few more years before SSDs reach the needed prices. I have a smaller SSD, but for backup I plan to buy a 1TB HDD which costs much less than a 1TB SSD.

I always prefer to go double. The SSD for OS and programs as well as commonly played games. The HDD for the documents.

The best way to go about it. If you do it like this, cheap 128 GB SSD is all you need.

BTW, getting my crucial m4 SSD was the best improvement in computer performance I felt since I replaced my celeron 1.8 with athlon 64 3200+. :D

D&T is correct, no need to defrag an SSD.  It only adds wear for basically no gain.

I am working on the next gen HDD.  HDD are looking more and more like SSD due to the fact that we can no longer randomly write to the surface of the drive - because the tracks are overlapped.  So now we have to write your data somewhere else and then write it to the shingled region when we get a chance.  In a lot of ways just like a flash page must be totally erased before it can be resued a shingled region on an HDD must be totally rewritten in order to put your data "where it is suposed to be"

This is how it will play out.  SSD will take over where HDD used to be (<10 TB ish), HDD will move into where tape used to be (100 TB ish) and tape will be used for offline storage or maybe finally go away but don't count on that.

Then eventually new technology (GBs of non volatile DRAM read and write speed memory, without wear issues, right in the SOC with the CPU) will push "up" the SSD pushing "up" the HDD maybe finally killing tape (but don't count on it).

HDDs are not going away for a long time (see tape and the predictions of its death over and over again).

Well tape is finally (20 years after the first predictions) dying.  LTO gave it an extra couple years but it is in sold multiyear decline now

http://www.storagenewsletter.com/images/public/sites/StorageNewsletter.com/articles/icono9/sccg_2011_540.jpg
http://www.storagenewsletter.com/images/public/sites/StorageNewsletter.com/articles/0icono13/sccg_graphique_2012.jpg

Well for some people 128 GB is not enough even for the drive with the OS. This is what kept me from not buying a SSD yet.

128GB is plenty if you are using it "only" for the (a) OS.  If you install multiple OS on the SSD then you could potentially fill it up.   I have a 240gb installed.  Although I intended to use it only for the OS is has slowly acquired other files/programs.  I have a sloppy tendency to always download files to the desktop and sometimes when installing new programs I mistakenly install them to the SSD. 

One of the unpleasant things about Windows... maybe someone will correct me here (please, please, please!), but I've never found a way to have stuff which'd automatically save to C:/ automatically go to, say, O:/ - you know, stuff which heads to appdata or "My Documents" and other such stuff in "Users." -On the Windows side, that is. Obviously, I tell Core (that always makes me think I'm at some fitness forum...) to use O:/ - but I'm not going to look up every single program to see if there's possibly (unlikely) a way to have saved data moved over to O:/

That's why I have to constantly open WinDirStat for my SSD (if I haven't made it clear by now -- it's a really slick program).  There's just so much junk on my copy of Windows, now... but I can't just wipe it anymore without all sorts of issues. All my software's on the O:/ HDD, but all the "vital components" are on the C:/ - which I can't store the blockchain or anything other than the enormous mass of DLLs and Doze files on... so if I wipe it, I lose all those referenced DLLs and similar subcomponent files. You know - and these subcomponents... maybe a piece of software references 10MB worth of data on C:/, so it's ridiculous to have that so "importance-biased."

It's an unpleasant situation. Even if I upgrade my hard drive, I have AT LEAST 200 unique pieces of software throughout my Medusa-like hard drive compound (ha - I don't even think they'd all fit in most PC cases), so I'd be looking at literally days or maybe even weeks to bring them all back to being usable. It's for a similar reason I'm not particularly fond of Steam.... it's difficult to manipulate files -- yeah, I can just redownload the file from them, but on my 3G Sprint connection, it took me a week just to download Empire:Total War a couple weeks ago. I see, you know, some of the Core devs saying stuff like "oh, well the blockchain is only as big as Diablo 3" - but I obviously rely on my primary means of income and expenditure a Hell of a lot more than Diablo 3, so it's kind of important that it's not as cumbersome.

... There are so many things I hate about Windows.... .... maybe time to switch and become one of those assholes who tells everyone else they're the devil if they don't, too.

Well for me it is not enough. Unless you plan to install every program on the second drive (HDD). Which I don't like doing as some things sometimes don't work correctly.

The world explained, in game (size) analogies.

I like it.

No way dude people are never going to be fully comfortable having their critical and/or personal data be on the cloud.

Good Bye HDD. ;D

Not true sir...

http://www.gizmag.com/sony-185-tb-magnetic-tape-storage/31910/

Hellow Kitty.

this is awesome technology is so fast phasing.

It is brilliant how small, fast and higher capacity these are becoming. I am liking the M.2 drives too which have a higher bandwidth through PCI-E.

SSD > HDD

Yes we have to Say "Good Bye" to HDD.

I don't have money to buy 4TB HDD so for me having 256GB SSD would be elusive goal

in my country you can find SSD 320Gb 50-60$ is not high price

Goodbye to HDD? Man I still use old 80GB IDE HDD ,and I dont have money for anything new

Invention of new thing doesn't mean a complete disappearance of old things,ssd was evolved from hdd.So it's take some time for son to take over throne.

I've said that more almost 5 years ago.

http://s008.radikal.ru/i304/1408/86/bf69a688542f.jpg

http://s015.radikal.ru/i331/1408/e3/6f95f05d802b.jpg

Even with SSD being significantly cheaper than before... It would still be way to costy. With 4TB of SSD you could possibly even buy a NVidia Titan Z GPU :)

So exactly what would you need 4 TB SSD storage for? Stop storing so many "movies".  :P
500GB would be perfect I assume to make it your main drive. This is enough (!) room for the OS and most programs. Then a 1-2TB second HDD would do for anything else.
The prices still have to come down if you ask me.

OMG, where do you live? :o

"$X for Y GB" is absolutely senseless statement.

C'mon, stop thinking about volume/price ratio, it doesn't mean anything. There are a lot of different flash and buffer memory types, controllers and firmware developers. Chip makers and device vendors want to have unlimited queue of stupid customers who will buy any shit without paying any attention to hardware or software details. Don't let them to fool you.

SSD is still expensive & what will be the price of this 4tb SSD?

In my country this is the cheapest 256GB SSD i could find. Transcend 256GB SATA3 TS256GSSD340 and cost about 151 U.S. dollars

Not so sure about good bye, prbably tha would happen in a couple of years.

I could see it happening if the price to make a SSD become extremely cheap.

HDD will always be cheaper then SSD, so no. HDD is here to stay...

Is that like punch cards will always be cheaper than magnetic storage tapes?

Is that like storage tapes will always be cheaper than magnetic disks?

HDD will live on for a long time ....

Recently switched to a ssd drive, better than a processor, board and memory upgrade all at once!

buy one with 256 GB and you will feel the boost  :D

Well I luckily got a refurbished laptop for cheap and it has an SSD on it. With the same "bloat" programs on startup, it's like 5-6 times faster on boot and the difference is very (!) noticeable.
I would upgrade my Computer right now if I had the money.

Many data science & statistic stuff and others generates a ton of data, that will need to be accessed at a fast speed.

So there is demand for the SSD high capacity disks, even if they are more expensive

Damn, 4TB of SSD? Thats legit nuts. I wonder how expensive that is.

Probably be more than $2,000 if you calculate it by price per gig.
http://www.geek.com/chips/sandisk-unveils-a-monster-4tb-ssd-1592769/

SSDs make sense for end users and certain other use cases. But if it comes to large storage needs and data that needs to be overwritten a lot, they just don't do the trick. Blocks on an SSDs can only be written about 1000 times and they're still a lot more expensive than regular HDDs when it comes to large capacities.

Your information is way out of date:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory

BurtW

His information is absolutely correct, the most of MLC based drives have 3000-5000 P/E cycles limit, TLC is much worse. While SLC is able to provide billion P/E cycles (1000000 cycles for memory in my X25-E, for example)

Don't confuse SLC memory with MLC or shitty TLC scam memory. I recommend you never even think about buying TLC based drives.

Nobody want to pay overpriced SSD, all my miner are still using HDD.

yes ssd is too expensive.  HDD will still have the buyers.

Some people would prefer to buy it due to lower $/GB rate, of course. But TLC is a marketing scam for sure, even if we'll forget about significantly lower durability. Just try to test how ITGC and TRIM are working in samsung 840 and compare it with any modern MLC based drive such as Plextor M5S... ::)

Well HD are not totally done for yet......


Seagate is now shipping 8TB hard disks.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/26/seagate-8tb-hard-drive/

^ go hdd go hdd ^

Still using HDD, I prefer cheaper drive then expensive one..

They'll prolly be expensive as fuck for me to try to buy one

SSD is too expensive :(

I cant afford current SSD, let alone this one.

No one can afford it lol.