Bitcoin Forum

First of all, this coin is in no way aiming to replace bitcoin. It was designed for speculation only.
It is based on Tenebrix, wich means it's using the CPU friendly hashing algorithm.
Unique Features

• Fixed difficulty (0.05)
• Block reward reduces 4% every 1000 blocks, it does not increase ever. Minimum block reward is 1LQC
• Because of it's fixed difficulty, transactions will never be slow
• No pre mined coins

Liquidcoin's block reward will reach 10LQC after ~40.000 blocks.

Without further BS, http://www.mediafire.com/?hv0e5qjlgkpzlzb (19/01/2011 11:42 (GMT+1) - windows client + daemon)
https://github.com/nicksasa/Liquidcoin
#liquidcoin on irc.freenode.net
http://liquidcoin.org For latest releases.
If your having problems sending coins, make sure you have the latest version.

Ill give it a shot, always fun being an early adopter :D

what is the .conf filename?

liquidcoin.conf

what is the block reward now?

and has anyone gotten a block?

i got a block, yay  ;D

50 LQC's

some people we're having trouble with the zip being corrupted, so i reuploaded it to mediafire http://www.mediafire.com/?1qvdgmcmlqs8axt

i didnt have any problems with the release package

neither did i, hence why i could upload it, but others have, i would guess it is the fault of their isp's

Fixed difficulty means that with a lot of miners we could reach 1 block/second rate and even faster, doesn't it?

"Slow" is quite relative. Do u have exact numbers?

Has anyone been able to build this under ubuntu.
I'm getting errors like this....
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgdi32
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [liquidcoin] Error 1

It also means that there will only ever be one pool. Once you get below 1 block every 3 seconds, latency becomes an overwhelming factor.

This failed before it even started.

Agree. That's why I asked the question.

seems made to be solo mined, kind of anti pool (almost)

To put it in perspective with Litecoin... Litecoin currently has a difficulty of 1.14442 and the block times are 2.5 minutes. If Liquidcoin gets popular and has as much hashrate as Litecoin right now (33 mhash/s), with a difficulty of 0.05, a block will be found every 6.5 seconds.

i support this coin, or at least, i want to see it get a good chance, i want the only reason it fails to be its own fault

also, liquid(coin) is not solid(coin)

25 kh/s, how long will it take to mine a block?

Fixed difficulty? lol

Why so many trollcoins being announced?

Let's count together...

Difficulty 0.05 means that in average u need to go thru 65536 / 0.05 = 1310720 hashes. With 25 kh/s it should take 1310720 / 25000 = 52.4288 seconds.

Could anyone verify my calculations, plz?

isn't 2^32 * 0.05 / 25000 = 8589 (2h 23 min) ?

There is a phrase on http://www.litecoinpool.org

In case you are wondering, 65536 is the average number of shares to be solved in order to solve a block on difficulty 1.

So I based my calculations on 65536.

yes but 1 share != 1 hash

I know. Just imagine that difficulty is 1. Then u need to go thru 65536 hashes. Not 2^32 as u wrote.

I kind of like this new coin... especially since it is the first honest altcoin in a while. It has several things that one needs to point out:

- It knows its place: It doesnt claim supremecy about any other chain
- It is meant to be for speculators. We all knew that for i0, ix etc, but noone ever mentioned that
- Fixed Diffs mean that pools are out of the game, so be it.
- The decrease of payout is also an interestering experiment with every "retarget" is an interestering experiment (something to corporate into virtualminer ^^). Since it makes a subsiedy cut like seen in Solidcoin2 or will see in Bitcoin overfluent..
- THere are no premined coins, everything is open source and as transparent as it is possible - something that is not so common anymore..
- Based on the design of having scrypt and fixed diff pools are more or less overfluent. Of course pooling can occur but with the outcome of "lag" - and why should people pool up? Basically everyone has a realistic chance of finding blocks on solo..

I really watch this one it HAS some potential..

how sure are you about this?

also why divide by 0.05 and not multiply?

next quote proves that I'm right

2^32 * 0.05 / 33.000.000 = 6.5

We need an exchange guys :D

Can't be LiquidCoin without any exchanges right ?

If I multiplied I would lower qty of hashes required to find a block. It has no sense.

My link to litecoinpool.org proves that I'm right too :) Let's stop offtopic here, this thread is for other purposes.

PS: Difficulty could have different meanings, so 1st thing we should do is to define what difficulty ==1 for this coin is.

I can't run the daemon because libstdc++-6.dll is missing, when I download it from the internet I get _ZNSt12out_of_rangeD2Ev could not be located in libstdc++-6.dll.

Is it possible you add the proper version of the dll to the package?

Updated the package with the correct dll and the optimized minerd from pooler (if you want faster you'll have to get his 64 bit version).
Icon fix and some other minor GUI fixes coming soon, a linux binary aswell.

The github won't build in linux (Ubuntu 11.10)

What errors ?

/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgdi32
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [liquidcoin] Error 1

Note that i can build other coins so i do have correct dependencies.

This thing isn't real scrypt, right? Its the deliberately bastardised pretend/fake scrypt deliberately nerfed for the convenience of botnets who are using other people's computers without their permission thus need to try to conceal the fact they are running?

How large a botnet are you running anyway, and why do you need a new coin to run on it, isn't litecoin already tuned ideally for botnet use?

-MarkM-

Huh ? It's based on Tenebrix including it's scrypt algo so ...

my scrypt miners sure seem to work on it anyway

Try with the latest git, seems the unix libs line wasn't in the .pro for some reason

Yeah but that is the nerfed down pretend-scrypt used by litecoin, right? Deliberately toned down so botnets can use it. Because using a proper version of scrypt would make people whose machine have been infected by botnets notice something is being processed.

So basically there still aren't any alt-coins using a proper full scrypt, they are all just fakes set up for botnets to deploy.

-MarkM-

It is good to see that at least some of us here have the guts to say it like it really is.

Well done markm and screw all these botnet operators getting bored with LTC.

I'm still getting the same error.

Hold on, lgdi32 was in the global LIBS define aswell.
Pushed to git.

Now it's fixed
Thanks

what are the dependencies to compile? i am getting:

Have a look at the LTC/TBX/FBX info and do that!

anyone want to buy some liquidcoin?

let the bidding commence

i had a virus-alarm with downloaded "liquidcoinv2.zip" on w7-64

avast found and deleted
Win32:Rootkit-gen(Rtk)

dont know what it is, but this doesn't inspire much confidence among...

Pooler's minerd is detected by some anti viruses, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55038.0 (compare the MD5 hashes if you want)
Same minerd is used with LTC.

...until blocks start coming faster than the network's latency. Then everyone HAS to use a pool - and it needs to be the same one. Instant 100% centralization.

We picked a reasonable difficulty for higher hashrates. With the current 17Mhash network speed it's averaging 10-15s/block, not even close enough to cause much problems/orphans.

Are there any differences between liquidcoin and liquidcoinv2?

V2 of the zip had a missing dll included and the minerd from pooler.

For fairness since I've been attacking Realcoin.  Yes, LQC is a "scam" just like every other altcoin.  The difference is LQC isn't making claims of being anything more than it is [Speculation Based], and doesn't have a premine (other than the advantage Nicksasa had of being able to start it before anybody had a chance to read the thread).

I'm fine with altcoins that are just here for people to play around with.  I'm not fine with altcoins which claim to be doing a bunch of development into usability/security without actually changing the protocol, since its a drain on development time which could be used to improve Bitcoin.

haha someone finally got around to doing Ponzicoin.  We should have one every week so that everyone can play a round :)

Couldnt have said it better myself.

No because as network gets faster and faster the rate of orphans will only increase and your effective generation rate will decline.  The only solution is to form a pool and continue your orphaned chain until it either becomes the longest chain or falls too far behind.  The more hashing power the less you lose to orphans. 

Logically even if pools formed the most valuable pool is the largest pool and quickly one would see consolidation of hashing power to >51%.  At that point anyone using other pools or solo is simply choosing a lower return on their hashing power.  In time the single pool will have 100% hashing power.

And at 34 MH is is ~5s.
And at 85 MH it is ~1s.
And at 170 MH it is ~1s.

At a hypothetical (lets pretend this has a future) 1 GH/s it is <0.2s.  (5 blocks a second with burst as high as 3x that).  At 1GH/s orphan rate would be 90%+ even w/ network propogation time of 1 sec (unrealistic).

The only one immune to that would be a massive pool with 51%+ hashing power that would simply ignore other blocks and continue its own chain thus ensure it is never orphaned. 

Unfortunately Open Transactions turned out to need massive and deep re-writing otherwise my exchange would be open by now, but the re-write is almost complete to soon you will be able to use secure Open Transactions client<->sevrver technology to trade in a number of "fully pre-mined" coins.

The catch however is that such coins cannot afford "miners" until their transaction volume, thus transaction fees, become large enough to "pay" miners. So initially they will be Open Transaactions based only, with only those that actually take off enough to justify the expense of usign a blockchain actually moving to an (open*) blockchain.

(* They maybe however go back to the friend to friend blockchain method they used with their early testnets, or look again at "licensed miners" concepts.)

-MarkM-

If your having trouble finding blocks with your cpu, try to adjust the scantime to 2 or even 1. Default is a bit too low for such network speeds.

And this is why this altcoin will implode. There is no future for it. Pump and dump asap.

Releasing a coin without announcing it at least a week before hand == premine.

Miner's not connecting
EDIT: Never mind, one in the client seems to work.

Considering the difficulty never changes, i don't think its that big of a deal. And besides, all the more reason to JUMP ON FAST oO

New update - http://www.mediafire.com/?tbowv449nbaq37x
Removed source from the zip, since it's moved to github now.

- Fixed the icons
- Fixed address validation issue

On one of my computers, the client won't connect to the network at all. Left it for a while, still 0 connections to the network.

Tried forwarding port 3737 ? Also make sure it isn't stopped by a firewall.

Hey, I guess it could be interesting to continue discussing your theory here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55314.0 ;) There is also a weird thread started by Come-from-Beyond, where he seems to claim that he is already able to set arbitrary hash rate per GHz in his miner (maybe still within some reasonable range), supposedly by exploiting some flaw in scrypt implementation with 1024, 1, 1 parameters: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55670.0

I closed my researches in this direction. The final result i got was: Scrypt is good, but [1024, 1, 1] was a bad choice. If some other coin use other parameters for Scrypt then everything should be OK.

https://btc-e.com/news/55

Thank you!

Also, new update out. It's HIGHLY reccomended you update to v4 or latest github because we added some checkpoints, increased the initial DL of the blockchain, applied a performance fix and changed the fees to a somewhat better value. http://www.mediafire.com/?hv0e5qjlgkpzlzb

What fees?

I'd guess transaction fees?

*checks commit log*
Default transaction fee was increased from 0.0005/kB to 0.1/kB.
Seems to still use standard BTC rules for which tx don't require a fee.
See LTC TX spam fiasco for the reason.

So even after the LTC TX spam fiasco someone release an alt-coin w/ same vulnerability?

I mean I thought in theory the point of alt-coins is to be a learning environment.  If scam-coins aren't going to patch the mistakes of prior scam-coins then they aren't even make a token effort to innovate.

Won't get any disagreement from me, lazy coin creator is lazy... but hey, at least he fixed it when I pointed it out to him. ;)

Well I think the whole announce and launch within same day "fad" has something to do with it.  Satoshi took almost a year from his initial paper to genesis block and received significant feedback over that time period.

can you guys host those windows binaries somewhere else? The site is not accessible from China (where I happen to be at the moment), you are missing out the possibility of a huge crowd of miners and users.

block reward graph
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AvNwaWkDXol-dEpRM0VJMWdVWTJUVzNMYlZyVlVISEE&oid=2&zx=8antzddzduy5 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0AvNwaWkDXol-dEpRM0VJMWdVWTJUVzNMYlZyVlVISEE&oid=2&zx=8antzddzduy5)

Anyone know how long it should take a block at about 8 khash/s? Been running this for hours with no luck.

What is a transaction?

~7.5 hours/block

Thanks.

I'm buying liquidcoins for 0.00005 BTC per coin. If you want to sell - just PM me.

lol.

I'll pay you 50 LQC for a new 7970

now *that* would be a transaction.   ;D

LQC trading on https://vircurex.com activated.

Yay! Ah, the joy of not knowing whether to buy or sell...

I think if vircurex.com or any other altcoin exchange would build a user friendly interface similar to BTC-E.com, they could make a killing.  In fact, I would love to see a site make am LTC to (low value Altcoin) exchange.  I think it would really be a boon for LTC.  They could Offer: BTC/LTC,
LTC/LQC, LTC/IXC, LTC/I0C, LTC/DVC.  I have lost my train of thought haha.

Vircurex allows LTC/BTC, LTC/IXC, LTC/I0C, etc...
They even allow such exchanges as DVC/I0C; it's just that nobody makes use of the ability to do so.

You can now track the current LQC stats including total chain hash rate and time to next reward change on www.allchains.info .

The difficulty colums for lqc are now "reward" and "next reward" and the retarget distance is the estimated time to the next reward change based on a sliding window of the average speed over the past 1000 blocks.

The trouble is the Vircurex looks like crap.  The reason people use BTC-E.com is that it is easy and the interface works well.

LQC mining on www.coinotron.com (http://www.coinotron.com) activated.

Excellent. I originally thought solo would better, but my hashrates for the pool are so much higher than my ones going solo; by my calculations, I should be making around 400 a day until the reward drops.

and 400 a day is going to be worth how many cents? How much did the electricity cost?

now your just being logical!

You make a good point. The value remains to be seen, however.

The value is non-existent and always will be.

Next release. CarbonCoin where the value is based on your carbon footprint for the wasted electricity.

Wow, 18khash/s, was predicting 3 hours for my first block... but nope, 10 minutes after starting solo mining I find a block...
Beginners luck FTW.

Um.  If the difficulty is fixed, won't the block chain become both bloated in terms of data as well as encounter insanely high stale rates once a large number of people begin mining?

It was a clusterfuck when most of these alt chains started off with really low difficulties.

http://i52.tinypic.com/ws137.png
I love liquidcoin... 3 blocks in a row in 5 minutes. and this is at only 18khash/s with an estimated 3hrs between blocks...

14421 blocks already.... lol.

That's where the speculation aspect comes in.... which chain will be the winner?

Probably not this one if it becomes impossible to mine new blocks because the servers are being prodded so much for information...  That's the point of modulating difficulty, I thought.

Imma mine some now to dump to idiots, though.

They won't even be worth the electricity.

Once the reward goes to 1 at block 96,000 there will be 1,225,000 coins out.  If you mine 1000 blocks a day (today it is 2000 blocks a day), that is 365,000 coin a year.  So the inflation is still going to be 30%.  Bernanke and congress can do better than that.  However, the number of coins per day will change on the price and number of miners, so it is a neat experiment which a paper can be written on.

Gold can be mined so many man-hours per ounce.  liquidcoin can be mined so many per difficulty.  So liquidcoin mimics gold more than any other coin.  

Even though they're being bought and sold?

Yes

liquidcoin p2pool is working if anyone is interested.

I'll put modified files on github soon. Meanwhile, you can point your miner to 124.205.120.178:2001 with your liquidcoin address as miner's username. I'm not stealing your hashing power :) (seriously.)

EDIT: https://github.com/RuxiaoMa/p2pool_lqc

Anyone else get an NTP error popup a little while ago ?

Is someone trying to 'go back in time' and re-claim already mined blocks with a ton of power ?.....lol

Looks like LQC is dead in the water...  Only two buy orders in vircurex with no prospect of being added to BTC-e and a price set rapidly to drop below 0.0001 BTC/LQC.

Noone surprised.

We will see I bought 5000 just in case.  I think you have to wait 3 months to see if it is a failure.  Gold can be mined so many man-hours per ounce.  liquidcoin can be mined so many per difficulty.  So liquidcoin mimics gold more than any other coin.  I use to only get 3 connections, now I always get 8.

You drive down the value of your currency if all you actually use it for is to dump it for fiat or for some other currency.

All these play-currencies are actually very useful for testing financial applications if at least some people think they might someday have at least some value. Trying to do a real test with real users or even real players-of-games does not work well using "testnet coins" because even game players don't consider it worth their while to pursue coins that are just going to be thrown away instead of actually remaining an ongoing part of the game, a hoard they can look forward to playing with for years to come.

Possibly this particular play-currency might not be worth playing with, but maybe that is largely the fault of the people who keep trying to sell all the game-pieces instead of actually playing with them...

-MarkM-

Bitcoin is leading because there are businesses around bitcoin also there is a real team of developers.

Liquidcoin is analogous to gold.

1gold. You mine gold so many man-hours per ounce.
1lqc. You mine lqc so many per difficulty.

2gold. When the new world was discovered, the price of gold halved due to the new supply added.  
2lqc. As new equipment is added like fpga's or 16cores, the price of lqc might halve.

3gold. New technology allows people to mine gold at lower cost, but the current supply prevents large amounts of inflation.  
3lqc. New mining algorithms or software allows people to mine at lower cost, but the current supply puts a lid on inflation.

4gold.  The whole country could mine gold, but the price would crash.
5lqc.  The whole world could mine lqc, but the price would crash.  

5gold/lqc.  If coins are hoarded and the price rises, people will just mine more

lol dude. No. Just No

...
6gold. actual useful
6lqc. worthless beyond all belief

7gold. has been viable form of currency and wealth storage for 3 millennium.
7lqc. has so many fatal flaws even if it did become popular would fail within months.

If the hash rate goes just a little lower I can 51% the chain.  ;D

who's mining on my p2pool node? i'm going to reuse port 2000 so please change to port 2001. i will compensate this with a block.

i'm very sorry about that, but it's best to run a node yourself.

sincere apologies.

liquidcoin is on fire. 

Anyone know why I'm not getting the block chain properly using a linux client compiled from the git source?


Got new block at height 1222: 810cc20b30a6f108c0677269c9ea046f9c53a1d6494a615a1a84fa4e99e192bb
REORGANIZE
ERROR: Reorganize() : ConnectBlock failed
InvalidChainFound: invalid block=810cc20b30a6f108c067  height=1222  work=262427553894
InvalidChainFound:  current best=bae238edd46f91e75260  height=1000  work=214752689592
InvalidChainFound: WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct!  You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.
ERROR: SetBestChain() : Reorganize failed
ERROR: AcceptBlock() : AddToBlockIndex failed
ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED
received block 69c2d2049ca7c455abb6
Got new block at height 1223: 69c2d2049ca7c455abb6af6c7ef9f92b10b20c89e3ab54d1850dfc77040cdd21
REORGANIZE
ERROR: Reorganize() : ConnectBlock failed
InvalidChainFound: invalid block=69c2d2049ca7c455abb6  height=1223  work=262642305535
InvalidChainFound:  current best=bae238edd46f91e75260  height=1000  work=214752689592
InvalidChainFound: WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct!  You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.
ERROR: SetBestChain() : Reorganize failed
ERROR: AcceptBlock() : AddToBlockIndex failed
ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED
received block 7f1fdfbca68cb18426f1

so is there still some activity on LQC or is it completely dead?

they said the end of the chain will be reached within two weeks of start.

Look on Allchains.info which shows how many GH/s for all the currencies.

So far as I can see it is not yet dead and provided some keep mining it won't die.  It remains a question as to where the coins already are and what people want to do with them.

No reason, for example, why one couldn't use them within an online gaming site as chips.

Hi!

 Is Liquidcoin alive?!

 BTW, the command "liquidcoin listtransactions" does not work... Why?!

 Where is the latest source code URL of it?

Thanks!
Thiago

Yes - it's still alive. Mining and exchanging at vircurex.com is working well.
Binaries and sources can be downloaded from the first page of this thread.

Okay... But, why is this happening with my Liquidcoind?:

1- Blockchain stops at 1000 and don't go forward...

1.1- There is some connections:

2- Command listtransactions doesn't work:

Thanks!
Thiago

I had the same problem with the block count stopping at 1000.. At this point the client would download blocks, reject them, "REORGANIZE" (whatever that means) and try to download more.  After sever attempts of deleting the database and retrying I gave up and ended up copying the database files from a windows PCs which was working fine over to the linux box.  It's been working flawlessly since.

Edit:  I zipped up the chain from my windows box if you want to download and try it.  I remember you saying somewhere that you don't run windows.  Add your own wallet.dat and liquidcoin.conf files.
http://www.funkymonkey.org/cryptocurrency/Liquidcoin.zip

Thanks!
This problem does not occur with Windows version?!   :o

I can't say if it does now or not.. I started the windows client with the original version of LiquidCoin and upgraded the client every time a new version was posted.

I don't know what would happen if a clean install of the latest windows version would do which is what you (and I) were doing with the linux version.

Can Liquidcoin be merged-mined iwth other coins that use the same cpu-friendly hashing algorithm?

If so, is there a chain-ID number we need to know to set up merged mining?

Also, has anyone started using p2pool with it yet?

-MarkM-

No, it does not support merged mining... I just try that...

There is Tenebrix and Faibrix based on Scrypt but, all are dead by now...

Also, it does not work well... listtransactions command does not work... the blockchain download stops at 1000... It is almost useless...

I have been mining LQC for a 24 hrs now and on the coinotron site I have the threshold set but for some reason my wallet is still empty is there something I am missing?

Thank you
I missed that , well time to find another different coin to Mine

Hey
Did you receive 3 today's payouts ?

Is there any place to download the client, I tried the OP link, but my anti virus give me trojan warning.

https://github.com/nicksasa/Liquidcoin

So has this chain taught us anything cool about block times and difficulty?  Or is it just wasting electricity?

Is this altchain using scrypt? If so, then are people GPU-mining it (like litecoin) ?

I miss CPU-mining litecoin, and need something to keep my processor busy.

Yes and Yes.

I'm assuming that coinotron has all of the blocks downloaded. If that is the case, wouldn't it be possible to set coinotron as a node and connect to download all of the blocks?

Is anyone willing to add MM support to liquidcoin? JayCoin is looking to add it to is P2PMining.com project/pool with litecoin mining.

Issue coins from nurseries so when you buy a tree you can sell them to companies who can offset their carbon emissions. At least the government couldnt just issue whatever credits it liked on the market.

This sounds very interesting and promising :)