Bitcoin Forum

Hello comrades...

It seems that there is a hot topic that needs its own thread as the comparison and smearing conversations are hijacking threads.

Let's keep it clean and have a nice discussion regarding Advantages and Disadvantages of both products.... GO GO GO

No thanks

SP10 is cheaper per Terra.

But still you need to pay more since it is 1.5T.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=598502.0



for those interested sp10 group order is on bitcointalk 3,200.00 usd with shipping 1.5th

will ship starting MAY 16TH In stock

I've no dog in this fight just passing it along

(still imho you get the same coin you make buying at 440 likely)

Searing

There is a loss of 7-8 days due to different shipping times.

I wouldn't choose S2 because of that, though.

Get either of them if you are not prepared to buy btc direct dont at all cost spend btc to get btc for either of them. You will not see the same btc back i swear on my mother.

 If you dont have btc not sure of its prospect wanna try mining have usd to spare (as in spare change not part or life saving) then they"llmake sense.

Get them if you want to mine and you want to own a piece of mining history as a novelty. Never as a btc investment to earn more btc.

If you can get it at the same price at the same time then get spoondolies.

Bitmain has edge in availability, spoondolies in general seem to be better build and i've a feeling more reliable to run longer with better electricity consumption.

You mean a one week difference is a reason to choose an S2 instead of the SP10?

How we just the hardware on their merits, rather than who ships first?

I think everyone agrees that SP10 is a superior machine, but they did start selling at a very premium price which was a big disadvantage.

Bitmain on the other hand had a great little product called S1, it was great way to introduce amateur miners like me into BTC mining. S2, sounded like a great idea initially until I have seen all of the images of the damaged boards however saying that my S2s did arrive in one piece and did hash (after checking the each board was connected).

In my opinion both products will appeal to different people, all I am saying is that do not be a fan boy and have a blind faith to a manufacturer who is reaping most of the benefits, while you get a machine that might turn profit for you.

I think I might need to offer a 0.1 BTC bounty (I am poor at the moment) whom ever can write can the best comparison for both products.

We based it on who shipped first because that 0.00x daily difference will matter later if btc goes to 40.000$ like the winklevosses said.

ROI for both are shit based on current situation.

If you have a crystal ball and it says 5%diff increment for the entire year then spoondolies will be a winner. Something they seem to eagerly imply with the chart they posted.

Bought an S2. Bought some SP30s. Might buy some SP10s. Depends on how silly I feel. Twinklevoss? Man... let us just say that this year we all hope and expect over 1500$ right?

The SP10 looks like a better product (compact, high-end, well-designed, efficient), but the price is too high to make anything more than a slight profit at current BTC prices. The 1.25U size makes this a clear choice for datacenters where space is limited and costly.

The S2 ships a week earlier and presumably will undergo a significant pricecut once bitmain ships out all of the May 8th batch. (probably to $2100 or so before coupon). The unit I have arrived in one peice and works great. Its not overly loud (big 140mm fans make a whoosh rather than a screeching whizz like the little 60mm stuff in the SP10) and the 4U size is managable for home mining or bitcoin mining facilities that have plently of room.

IMO the S1 is still the champion. It can be hardware-modded down to efficiency levels similar to the S2 and still be cheaper (albeit bigger).


If bitcoin prices go up (as most of us expect if we are buying hardware that looks barely-profitable at current prices) then the S1 will still be the clear winner. We would swing back to the side of mining where the hashrate is more important than low energy usage.

it costs 0.5BTC.  It will mine about 1BTC.  It will use about $250 worth of electricity in that timeframe.
at current $500 prices that is (1BTC - 0.5BTC)*$450 - $200  = ~$50 profit which is pretty minimal
but if we try at $1000/BTC:    (1BTC - 0.5BTC)*$1000 - $200  = ~$300 profit which is significant, basically a 60% ROI


better yet - what we need is the antminer S1.5:
1.45TH / 2.6kW
3U size for rackmount (approx size of a 3wide x 2deep antminer rack)
no PSU(s) included
16 Antminer S1 blades, with slightly shorter heatsinks and undervolted from 1.1V to 1.0V so that the max speed is about 180Gh overclocked but the efficiency is improved
singular controller
~3.75BTC

Do tell me your assumption of diff increase and electricity costs. And why on your diff adjustment ?

Hands down the s-1 still has the advantage for USA buyers.

First consider tax law.    spending .5 btc you need only say you spent the dollar amount that is.. today  it is 223 usd.

Both the sp10 and s2 are more then 600 usd.  so a longer paper trail is required by the usa gov.

Second you can get good psu's like this one


http://www.rakuten.com/prod/evga-supernova-1300-g2-1300w-power-supply-110-v-ac-220-v-ac-input/249973555.html


195 usd  runs 3 s-1's over clocked to  200gh…….  so you have 600gh with power for about  850 usd  . 

you can under clock it and get a fourth one to run on the same psu.

The sp10 and all 1th units don't have a lot of flexibility .

  They don't have a big power edge.    think of the older AM blades  they burned tons of watts 110-150 for 11gh  10 to 13 watts a gh.

An s-1 standard clock burns 2.  under clock + pencil mod under volt it burns less then 1.4 watts .. a gh

The s-2 and sp10 do not jump from  1.4 to .3 watts


11 watts / 2 = 5.5x improvement   AM blade to s-1

2 watts / .7 = 2.867 improvement   S-1 to sp10    with the settings of full volts to the s-1 and low volts to the sp10

1.25 /.7    = 1.785x improvement  s-1 to sp10    with both set at lowest volts.


 Also  you can turn a s-1 off and so what it was not much money.

You will not want to do that with an sp10

SP10 is not 0.7W/GH

Such a mess on your post. First of all it's S2 vs SP10. S1 can be ignored.

You praise the S1 for being able to go from 2W to 1.4W with underclock and then you compare the improvement of S1 with the improvement of SP10 when downclocking. Who in the hell compares that on 2 miners? You are truly unique.

Liking the S1 for the fact that it didn't cost much so you can easily throw it at garbage tells a lot of your way of thinking.

So, what it is then?

Its .7w/gh at lowest speed (1th) at 1.45TH my 2 are each pulling ~1325-1350w.

Bitmain S2 vs Spondoolies SP10 = In Stock vs PreOrder

But S2 was preorder until yesterday.

S2 is in transit... woot. I do like the Bitmain ship as promise philosophy as much as Spondoolies Tech's. It is nice dealing with companies that actually deliver on time.

My only worry is summer time... at 30C ambient temperature I believe SP10 will perform better compare to S2 (please correct me if I am wrong please correct me)

Can you imagine if all of these companies delivered on time, we would be having a discussion about SP10 vs S2 vs Neptune vs TerraMiner IV vs CoinCraft Rig etc but sad thing is there are only less than handful companies deliver quality miners on time.
 

The best strategy is to buy a S1 first, and then you will get a coupon worth 400 USD; then you use this 400 USD coupon to buy S2, so you will spend 2599-400+220=2419 USD to get 1000+180=1180 GH/s

Brilliant, didn't think of that.

It's a semi pre-order because until now we had pre-orders for non-existing products. SP10 is a very real and good product.


Which is 2.11$/GH compared to 2.13$/GH if you buy a SP10 from my Group Buy.

More like 2.05/Ghs vs 2.13/Ghs

I like you bro. I also like the sp10  .  let me buy one with a cc  at 1800 to 2000usd and have delivered it to my home in three or four days and I would have one of them mining right now

 The fact remains I can't buy one for 1800 to 2000. with a cc and get it in four days. I have to create more tax work when I file to buy it.
 I also am in the same shape if I buy a S-2.  NO CC or PP

I have two options buy s-1's 1 or 2 at a time. No extra tax work.  Order monday get it friday.

So Monday the 5th I order 2 S-1's 400 gh for 1 btc I get them Fri the 9th .
 I  can make 3 separate orders on monday the 5th each for 2 machine total of 1.2th total of 3 btc or  about 1320 usd


Buy 2 of the evga 1300 watt psus 400 usd .  So for 1732 usd I am hashing on fri the 9th at 1.2 th using 2400 watts


Buy your sp10 on  may 5th for 3200  When do I hash??

Buy the s2 on may 5th for 2200 usd (I have 6 coupons) it hashes on sat the 10th.

So buying your machine I have at least 7 maybe 10 days  longer wait time before I hash.

Buying the S-1 I hash in quicker time and as a garage hasher I have the ability to set up the 6 s-1's.

As A USA buyer no extra tax issues.
I have 6  running as I type.  they pull 1.2th and pull 2400 watts they are earning 33 usd a day and they burn 9 dollars in power. 

So they gain 24 bucks a day.

 your machine would cost me 1500 usd more to have THEN 6 s-1's  with the evga psu's.

 I would need 10 to 12 days to own one.  I love your gear but not the price or the wait.

Lets be serious, the thread is for countering similar machines, with similar consuming characteristics.

S1 is not included for various reasons.

I have both S2 and SP10 in my racks...

SP10 is second to none in build quality and reliability.

S2 was built to be a cheap box they can just toss at customers and lower the price as needed -- like the S1.    

My S2 arrived as a pile of parts, i had to reassmble it and 4 of the hash boards were damaged in shipping so its hash as about 600 GH/s.  Trying to get replacements but communication is difficult.

SP10's are super high quality, very solid performers and a bit better power efficiency.    The web interface is very straight forward and simple to configure.

@ $3200 SP10 group buy VS $2599 for the S2, i would (and did) pay the extra money and buy the SP10 all day long.   Both should ship within a week or two.

Second that. Spondoolies is the mercedes of mining hardware. s2 is a cheap nissan sunny.

WTF these are bitcoin miners, as long as they do their job as specced who cares what they look or "feel" like?

+1

Here we go again.

How do they do their job when you need to carry a dozen of SD cards and replace every time you need to reboot?

You need to pray also, I forgot it.

I want to know my stuff will work when i get it and i'm willing to pay reasonable premium to ensure that.  I'm still trying to get the S2 repaired so it is definitely not working as specced.   I know that Spondoolies-Tech would overnight me a replacement box if i received a DOA or damaged box.   They are a top notch company that will stand behind, and are proud of their product.

The S2 definitely has its place and they will sell A LOT of them, but not everyone has the same objectives.

Guys , the S2 is a hobbying toy where you need to babysit all the time.
Checking its temperature, changing its diapers ...err..  SD cards, disconnect from LAN and connect it directly with your PC to make changes to configuration, etc.

On the other hand, SP10 is similar to a heavy duty industrial PLC  ready to work 24/7 with duty cycle of higher than 120%.

You are doing it wrong! For 2400watts you could be hashing at 2.8Th.

+1.   

Buy a high quality SD Card throw it in there and don't be an idiot by pulling the plug to turn it off.  I'll see about the direct connection issue when I get my S2s on Monday, but I doubt I'm going to have to disconnect it from the LAN and directly connect to it if I ever need to access the GUI.  There will be a one-time direct configuration, that's it.

I have tried many times to to turn it off with various ways, but still card gets corrupted from times to times. I cant figure out how to safely disconnect it.
I tried to remove first the ethernet, let it finish its work and after that switch off. Even though still gets in the same problem.

I am reading on the S2 thread also, but maybe I need to buy different cards and test again.

Have you figured out how to access the machine through SSH?  Just use the CLI shutdown command and wait a minute.

I have read it , but not tried it yet. I will try and re-test. Thanks.

yes I could but my upfront cash is 1700 vs 3200 that is 1500 usd difference

2.4kwatts cost me 9 usd a day.  1 sp10 is 1.2kwatts   so I have to spend 1500 usd extra for the same hash and a savings of 1.2k-watts

 or 1500 usd more and save 1.2 kwatts or 4.50 usd for power vs 9 usd for power.   1500 usd divide by 4.50 = 333 days

so for me to go ahead cash wise and make up for the power if both setups start today.  my s-1 x 6 will take 333 days to spend the usd saved over buying the sp10.   both machine are losers unless btc price jumps.

So buy 6 s-1's 2 evga's for 1750   today  not 1 sp10.

Your machine puts me about 1500usd in the hole and make me wait to hash.



Now the guy that said buy 1 s-1 use the 400 dollar coupon for an s-2 has a good idea.

I end up with 1.2th at about 1400 watts.  I spend about 2500.  this is  700 less then the sp10.

the watt difference is about 200

 1400 vs 1200   that is 75 or 80 cents a day  so in about 1000 days the sp10 catches up to this idea.   and obvious btc price needs to be huge.

So Any way you cut it. buying the sp10 on preorder is not as good as all s-1 or s-1 plus  s-2

without a huge btc jump in fiat.

This is comparing ice fury usb sticks vs ant miner u-1's  the ice fury was great gear that simply cost too much and took to long to get.

The u-1 sticks crushed the ice fury on the market.

But sell me a sp10 at 2k with a cc or pp  get it to me in under 4 days it is the hands down winner.

BTW one can argue to host a dragon miner at 1th using paypal as the best of all deals today. instant hash no work and you have paypal protection for 45 days if you used a cc with paypal your protection is for 60 days. If you time the order. like I did.  I have 50 days to pay with zero interest.

So I have 1th hashing since april 20th.  I charged it one day after my paypal cc statement came.  so  that statement is due on the 12th of may.  but the 2800 usd charge is not on it.  the charge will come one the mat 19th paypal bill I don have to pay that until june 12th.

So I have 1th hashing for  about 50 days before I pay it at all.

That is a better deal the the s2 the s-1 the sp10.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576844.msg6296463#msg6296463

so if you time your paypal cc right I argue do this.

HOW??  are you getting 1350W from an Emerson DS1050-3?  Specs are 87A @ 12V = 1044W. I can not find the answer anywhere in threads, how are people getting 1.4+ TH/s out of a 1050W PSU..

I would love to buy a few, but the math does not add up. Are these rigs upgraded to the DS1200?

This is very good analysis. I've done similar math and come up with numbers that show that it will take me around 1 year for a S2 or SP10 to be a better deal than just buying S1s plus power supplies and paying a higher electricity bill to power the S1s.

Agreed. The s1 is still king.

The people that prize form over function(and positive ROI) can have their sp10's and s2's.

Remember to pray to the all mighty hemaphrodite.

S2 already in Norway next day!

Oslo to DataCenter could take longer lol!

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/PFC4L1FE/InNorway_zpsd45ed842.png

SP10 doesn't come trashed like S2:

SP10 is more suitable for installation in the engine room inside, but its price is too expensive! Even if Bitcoin prices back to $ 1000, your investment will not be fully recovered, even without considering the electricity cost.

And the price of S2 is better? It's actually more $/GH than the SP10. And with S2 you get this:

Nice brag!

Oh yeah dead bitmain gear you get fucked on the rma.  that is pretty true.  Takes a long time for replacement.  they ask for a deposit .  Happened to me.

 But a usa dealer sent me an s-1 upfront no cash no coin.  I sent him the dead one.  Since he is a big dealer he handled the rma for me.  So I only lost 4 days mining but no replacement deposit.

Thank you to bobsag3.

Oh I came up with a model that makes the sp10 a clear winner.  btc stays dead flat 400 to 475 usd a coin.

Diff jumps like mad from the current 8 to 22 really fast. 2 or 3 jumps

Then diff stays dead flat 2 to 5 %   a jump for 8 months.

The sp10 and the sp30 would rock with that model.   better then the s-1 or the s-2.

Hey now, don't go mentioning the s1 again. The spondoolie heads are busily pretending it doesn't exist.

But if you look up 1 post my fast jump to diff of 22/25 (under 30 days)  

then really slow diff jump for 8 months makes the sp10 & sp30 a winner


Love the quality of the sp10  but my ice fury usb sticks were far better then ant miner u-1 sticks.

I made a lot of money selling u-1's  I got crushed selling ice furies.

 

Anything with 1W/GH or more shouldn't be on the miners radar imo now, but it's everyone's choice how they fill their power circuits.

Power consumption is such an overblown issue. People horribly overpay for slightly better power consumption, which makes very little difference in profitability over the life of these products. Sure, an sp10 is awesome vs an avalon at 9+ watts/gh, but when you're talking about small efficiency improvements it's just not worth paying a bunch more up front.

Improving the S1's power efficiency significantly is not very difficult either if one chooses to do so. There are threads around with detailed directions and photos to help. Just making blanket statements like 1w/gh or more shouldn't be considered is absurd, though you're welcome to your own opinion. The only thing that should matter is getting your investment back and making a positive ROI. For most poeple that's more likely to occur sooner with an s1(or 6) than either an s2 or a spondoolie.

I would say looking @ S2 to SP10 is NOT an argument, SP10 is better choice hands down. The S1 GH/$ now is a good topic for comparison.

In my power grid residential costs $0.08/KWh, commercial $0.18/KWh

In a residential install it would take 181 days for the SP10 to eat away the price difference per GH.

In a commercial collocation it would take 80 days for the SP10 to eat the difference.

S1 is clear winner IF you are installing in residential, SP10 would have my vote for install @ collocation

right now, a rough estimate shows that:

S1: 0.5BTC, can mine about 1.0BTC total in ~3 months, using about $250 in power.

SP10: ~12BTC, can mine about 16BTC in ~7 months, using about $1500 in power

at BTC= $500 the respective profits are negligible, about breakeven (0%) and ~1BTC (6%) respectively.
at BTC = $2000 the respective profits are 0.375BTC (75%) and 3.25BTC (30%) respectively.

If you are bullish on BTC prices, then the Antminer S1 has a tremendous capability to bring in a profit, similar to when the first asics came out but GPUs were still profitable.

LOL... it be better if Oslo to DC was same time frame. Have to wait til Monday! Argggh! It is a 4 hour drive to the DC from Oslo and they couldn't do on Friday!

I bought both. SP30 and S2. At this point I think it is important to support both companies given we do not have a lot of other viable choices. There is little between them. I am willing to risk buying Bitmain even if there are some issue with RMA given they ship fast. I am willing to risk on buying Spondoolies later for August because the SP30s are a tremendous product.

Personally I don't see this as a competition as long as people stop funding HashFast, BFL, KnC, Cointerra etc then the community will be better off in the longer term. At this point there is little to choose between Bitmain and Spondoolies. Can't go too wrong either way and if there is an advantage to Bitmain it is slight at these current BTC prices.

'Nuff said!

Hardly. I'll take the rats nest and a positive ROI thanks.

...actually I have a rats nest and a positive ROI.

He must've said larger machines in smaller quantities....at the same cost.
I doubt he'd trade ROI for better form.

It also comes down to the price one pays for electricity.

The Antminer S1 cannot be beat if one has low electricity costs (under 10 cents / KWh) and has access to abundant electricity and cooling.

I may pay less per GH for electricity in dollar terms running S1s at 10 cents per kilowatt hour than someone in Europe or California pays to run SP10s at 30 to 40 cents per kilowatt hour.

Power efficiency is very important for miners with high electricity costs, but not so much for miners with low electricity costs.

Certainly true to a point, but too much is made of relatively small power efficiency differences. The more you pay for the gear up front, the longer it has to run to reach positive ROI and state of the art efficiency generally commands a premium. People with really high power costs can have their sha miners turn into losers very quickly even with state of the art efficiency. If you're in Australia for instance and paying $.34/kwh then pre-ordering an sp-30 for August delivery   with btc/fiat under $500 and difficulty continuing to ramp up is a huge risk. In such a case you should buy and hold coins, but if you're determined to mine then scrypt gear is probably a better investment than sha gear anyway. The calculations are probably more crucial for people on the margins of high power costs.

@Mc Trollster. You win the most annoying post of the month award sir. It hurts my eyes to look at your dumb picture. Ignored.

So all in all it really has too mutch that weigh in like country, power costs, preferrences, space, heat, money , coins to use etc too really make This post simply pros and cons for ant and spoond. There will allways be to mutch off av variabel. Annyways annyone been too spoondolies? Are they located in tel aviv ?

^^^^This  ;)

Why someone who pays 30 to 40 cents per kwh would mine at that cost instead of finding a cheap hosting  deal is beyond me.
Maybe he's spending fiat to make a hedged bet at btc.
Or he's positive diff increment will be 5% for the next 6 months.
Or simply don't care for ROI.


Thought so  :D