Bitcoin Forum

Of course one main goal of the Decentralized union will be to further Crypto.

Unlike the Bitcoin Foundation I strongly believe The Decentralized Union should focus on staying decentralized and giving no one person great/complete control over operations including myself.

Also the "donations" required to be in the Bitcoin foundation trouble me greatly. This is an obvious attempt to profit off of an organization that should be furthering crypto.

Donating shouldn't be the main/only way to get in a foundation.

The Decentralized Union will put a higher priority on those that have actually contributed something innovative to the crypto community such as new protocols, services, features etc.

So I'm asking you the Crypto community what you would like to see the Decentralized Union accomplish what should be some goals?

Give the developers sole control of donation funds. Multi-sig address. Maybe there could be multiple addresses, with different development goals attributed to each address. There's a danger that people could effectively buy their own course of development (a similar argument could be made about the Bitcoin Foundation; a successful candidate can buy votes for the price of a one year membership, industry membership just gets bonus votes, and seemingly only the ability to pay counts)

Isn't this proposal essentially the same thing as this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=603955.0)?  Probably best to keep all the ideas together for the sake of staying organised.  Although this thread seems to have a more catchy name, heh.  I'll "+1" that part at least.

quoting myself to save writing twice

I understand your quoting yourself from another thread but if you read the original post you can see your 3 concerns were addressed in favor of what you were thinking.

i did understand. i was just showing a good example of HOW to organise the 'union' without middlemen and lackies sitting on their arses getting a guaranteed income.

also foundations and unions are names of groups that need 'official' organisation and registrations with alot of government red tape.

by calling it a foundation legally requires board members
by calling it a union. well that a whole different kettle of fish.

how about try the words
co-op
consortium

which dont require government red tape and lots of paid lackies that just simply sit on their hands as board members for legal purposes. all thats needed is a transparent and open system that cannot be corrupted and rub by a skeleton crew(preferably everyone: imagining wikipedia's self moderating for instance)

Yes I was thinking of an organization of something on those terms. Any "head members" would be less in a position of decision and more coordination. Literally anyone can propose a project and the projects that are pursued will be decided by what the community deems best.

First off: I quite like that name it has a nice ring to it.

I've been thinking about this for a while, ( since before the Foundation, started crumbling ) just because I feel that while its good to have  a single banner for core devs we also need local (ie country specific) Bitcoin/blockchain advocacy groups.

So I started working on: https://github.com/christopherdebeer/btca-template

It started as a fork/clone of the foundation's manifesto and is slowly evolving with the input of a few bitcoiners in the UK specifically for https://github.com/bitcoinallianceuk/btca-template the Bitcoin Alliance UK which we're trying to organise and get mindshare for. The problem is that everyone has their own ideas about what such a group should do if any UK based bitcointalk members read this I'd very much appreciate you getting in touch info@bitcoinalliance.co.uk , even if it is to say that we're doing it all wrong (seriously!)

I know i've kind of gone on a tangent about a UK group, but if you checkout the repo I think the model of operation could still stand, which is why I feel its a template that can be contributed to and used by groups all over the world int he same way.

Also its so crap trying to organise such a group when name are flying around, All we want to do if bring the blockchain the the rest of the word, but whatever name one is trying to rally under can become faddish or frowned apon within a matter of days. :( We have gone with alliance as we plan to be a losely coupled group of other more local groups in the UK.

There's a UK Bitcoin organisation? Do you guys have a website? I seem to recall a thread being made awhile back about doing this.

@Lethn your (kind of) response is exactly why we're trying to get it sorted, we've not gone Public with a capital P yet because we're still trying to sort out the agenda and structure, but if you're interested and/or know others who are please send them our way or get in touch!!

placeholder site: http://bitcoinalliance.co.uk as yet unpublisized/used forum: forum.bitcoinalliance.co.uk
email contact: info@bitcoinalliance.co.uk

So far its a collaboration between a few UK meetups etc (not all... yet) but we are by no means trying to be the ones 'in-charge' so much as be a banner for those that are interested to flock to, and welcome/invite any and all competing/existing organisations to work with us to come to a consensus as to what we All want from it.

I love the idea of this group being goal oriented when it comes to the image of Bitcoin.  I like the idea of rewarding those who have significantly to the community and I'd like to see other way to join the group other then having to pay to be a part of it.

Agreed on all counts. Paying/contribution is obviously a good (read: easy) way to fund an organisation, but I believe that funds should be distributed as deemed fit by the members (who needn't be paying members).

As a counter point I can see how payment (of some sort) helps to indicate a members willingness/commitment to said organisation. but I'm sure there are better ways to achieve this.

there needs to be an announcement asking for:
PR guys (weed out fud and speak about the true bitcoin facts )
legal guys (lobbying and giving factual information about bitcoins current legal status in regards to handling and tax etc)
programmers (truly able to submit change proposals to the bitcoin-core github or create actual bitcoin-core alternatives)
advertisers (to work with users and businesses to promote bitcoin locally, nationally, internationally)
businesses (to help new start-ups (mentoring) aswell as offer real world bitcoin uses)

all of which want to work for bounties and have idea's of what they can offer

you know what i mean, actual bitcoin infrastructure guys that can make things happen. as there is no point having a group if the only thing that happens is chatter and gossip between bitcoin average joe 'users'.

once there is a contact list of people that can do some real world change, then the ball can start rolling. and then the average joe users can read who is truly able to help so that users can submit idea's of what needs to change and know which bitcoin infrastructure guys to aim it to.

im not saying there needs to be a complete list before anything 'rolls'. im not saying there needs to be just one candidate for each industry. and im not saying the list has to be set in stone. all im saying is that getting a contact list of 'real world changers' is more important then getting average joe members.

Some good ideas here. +1

I agree with a lot of the points made and yes unlike a lot of other foundations we should set our goals on actually reaching achievements.

and im attempting to make it more then just idea's.

i am getting a coder to make a open plan, self moderating template design for a foundation that is automated in places so that the community inputs the information and the guys behind the scenes (whomever they will be) are not required to be board members. but basically moderators.

even the voting/consensus discussions and bounties are community controlled thus no one has control over limiting voting options. its about as open as a forum(but not a forum), but with better features and automation to keep tasks on track and organised/targeted.

just got to wait for him to finish coding it then ill get him to offer it to whomever wants to be the moderators (webmaster/domain owner)
ofcourse like in all business there would be a price to pay for any labour. i never endorse slavery, but if whomever wants a foundation bad enough should pay for the labour of others.

im not sure how much bounty he will request. but im sure it is more fairly, honestly and cheaply priced compared to the price theymos believes this forum is worth, for a glamour redesign. or TBF's entry fee's into their little bookclub.

so yes i know even in a bounty based system there are still costs involved with stuff like paying coders, domain name providers, hosting services. so there is no denying or ignoring that fact.

i simply hope the domain owner/moderator recoops their server and coding costs through advertising and other services that help the community and bitcoin businesses. and doesnt do it through membership fee's.

what we do not want is a system where basement dwellers that want to be handed a free-bee and then abuse it into a money making scheme. i believe in honest and transparent business and communities that can work together, no extortion trying to get super-rich, and no extortion trying to get slaves to work for free.

thats why i believe bounties work best

P.S. this is where we now see those wanting to make a foundation start to go silent as they now realise that they are not ever handed a free-bee that will make them millionaires. and those that dont stay silent are those that have the true passion to do the right thing

This is heading the right direction.

while the non-requirement of centralized control (instead of using the word decentralised) has been discussed now lets talk about content.

who wants to NOT sit on their hands and has actual skills, experience and idea's that can help a community grow. im not talking about making the backbone website or being the 'trustee' holding the funds not a board member. i mean community and business projects..

please feel free to supply info on what you can bring to the COMMUNITY. and what you would like to see developed for the community.

this is your time to submit your name as contacts for people to use for their projects,
this is your time to submit your name idea's of projects you want to see the community use in the future.

so don't be shy

seeing as the OP made this thread. i thought i should bring it to everyones attention.

The OP messaged me, at first i thought it was going to be about great idea's. but the end result was him wishing that the community buys an island.

so here is his whole message

and here is my reply

.. continuing with my last post

getting people to buy into a website (fee's) an island(donation) is not something that will help the international community. it is simply to make a few select guys rich and living mortgage free, offering hotel rooms and travel to their island at a price.

very selfish and narrow minded.

instead what bitcoin TRULY needs is contacts of every industry,
LEGIT investment companies
LEGIT businesses offering products
LEGIT freelancers offering their skills.

and grow the bitcoins industry into something every day joe public can use. and then advertise all this great industry to the public.

ontop of this bitcoin needs coders to help get these industries started. it needs inspired and aspirational people that want to grow bitcoin, not a landowners back pocket.

Step 1: Stop calling "cryptocurrencies" or "altcoins" for cryptocurrencies and altcoins.


WHat Public will buy into this if it's called CRYPTO? Come on humans of bitcointalk, you're smarter than that.


E-currency. Like E-mail.

I fail to see how a crypto centric real tangible hub wouldn't further crypto/bitcoin, If people feel the idea has merit they can back it I'm already in contact with people that would like to see the idea become a realization. A scam is not delivering on what is promised and I have no intention of doing that and safegaurds can be put in place to ensure that. Just because something is suggested that is against what you want does not mean it is a scam.

e-currency is taken.
in many countries the governments laws on wire transmissions call their electronic form of FIAT an e-currency, which is a separate cetgory from blockchained currencies.

although i do see your point as the word 'crypto'. sounds to the public, like a description of a psychopath that likes hanging around grave yards (crypt's)

i think in the future. the average jo public will be using the term cryptographic currency, only as the definition/explanation sentence in the future dictionaries. and a less geeky name would be used as the common term for blockchained currencies

i told you already, if you want an island go buy an island. but your not looking at the big picture of what will help grow bitcoin. an island should be your own project/bounty. and not the main part of what a decentralized bitcoin group should do. so let it be your project. the idea of the decentralized group is that anyone can have their own projects.

EG the bitcoin foundation has more square footage of floor space then any small island (spread out across mltple offices and connected via skype, rather then grains of sand). yet what results did they achieve. having space to stand on achieves nothing.

but if you want an island go buy one

my philosophy is not to waste peoples money on a land grab so a select few can live mortgage free and offer visiters a bed and transport for a fee..

my philosophy is to get bitcoin industry to be available to anyone and everyone.

I really don't think you understand the benefit to the community having a tangible land mass would create. Offices etc. don't have the same power as actual land.

i have heard 10 topics related to sea-steads, private properties, islands, yachts, towns. etc. so i have already personally gone over the pro's and cons

but instead of arguing over your project. make a proposal in public. tell them what your plan is. how you will achieve it, what goals and timescales you have. what skills you can bring or require to make it actually happen and set a bounty goal for your project.

then list all the benefits your project will bring to the international community and to average joe. that cannot be done from peoples own towns.

if at all showing true potential, i am sure you will get investment. so make your plan good, and detailed

Do you Call that taken?

1, nobody knows that

2, even if they did, bitcoin is/will be bigger than that (bigger goes first)

3, e-currency is the best term to adopt if we want mass adoption. E- is self explanatory. Currency is currency.


I've never thought about the cryps actually but Yeah hah, I bet many will think of that. You're probably right about that average joe but lets be Clear: An E-currency is a cryptographic currency. E-currency = everyday easy use Word, it's not a correct Word. Just like E-mail is rather stupid, so is E-currency. But please remember, People are stupid.

not denying anything you say, all im saying is the general public may prefer E-cash, or just calling them by their proper names like bitcoins, litecoins.

after all how many people use the word currency, day to day. i hear the words pounds, dollars, euros, facebook credits, dimes, bucks, quids used, but yet to hear "i have currency in my pocket" "i will buy a TV with currency"

either way thats a personal decision for the world to make given enough time for general public to come up with their own 'slang'

as for cryptopaths personal bounty project.. he seems to have gone off the idea of a decentralised foundation and now wants a bitcoin island. i told him to make some proposal details, tasks/goals, skills acquired/required. and a list of the benefits.

basically a standard business proposal any investor wants to see to take anything serious. yet i now see he has ignored my tips for success and skipped straight for the money grab. trying to find out how rich people are:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=609319.0

well goodluck to him.

If you actually read the thread you would see it is polling if people make a sizable amount of their income in crypto. Just because ideas differ doesn't mean one is a scam. Weren't you the one in favor of bounty programs and each project getting by on its own merit? This is just one project and if people would like to see it progress it will hence the Decentralized Union. You are still free to propose anything you would like. No one project defines the Decentralized Union but all projects should further Crypto and that is my goal.

im all for bountys/crowdfunding

so show the world your proposal. show that you have an idea worth investing in. as it seems your just gathering a list of rich people. so please concentrate on the business plan first.

ok ill start you off.
getting electricity to the island.. how?
getting internet to the island.. how?
getting sewerage off the island.. how?
getting fresh clean water, beverages, food supplied.. how?
getting building materials and labour onto the island.. how?
timescales, goals, tasks.. when?, what?, how?

the size of the island.. what?
the buildings on the island, offices residences, retail, warehousing, farmings.. what?,which?,what?
the ownership of the island.. who?
the governing/policing of the island.. who?
the day-to-day tasks such as manual labour keeping it clean, respectable.. who?

any investor would like to see these details.. IN DETAIL before even being interested in seeing a cost estimate, and before even being asked if they are onboard.

so PLEASE if you want to do a bounty, show some of your idea in detail. thats how bounties and crowd funding works

Exactly everything will be done in an orderly fashion I'm not jumping the gun. This is a topic that has been widely discussed for some time and I'm getting the input of a lot of people in the field.