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In my beliefs a good society should aim to provide a base wage for every citizen as this will mean people will not be forced to work like slaves in the same lame jobs for years on end. A base wage would stop crime from happening as people are desperate to feed their appetites, which always extend further than just food and shelter, wouldn't have to resort to drastic methods.

That's in idea that's been thrown around for a while now. The trouble is, where does the funds for this base wage come from? Most governments can't even cover their pension obligations.

And who pays your base wage?

Not everyone wants to follow the un-natural rhythm of modern society where you are nearly always have to go to bed or get out of bed when you don't feel like it.
All the money our society spends bullshizzz could be shifted to make a system that provides for the more animalistic sub class of humans. The IMF donated 17 billion dollars to Ukraine to help bail them out, so how hard can it to make a base wage for needy "irresponsible" people, so they don't have to get shit jobs in KFC.
It would be beneficial for society as people wouldnt have to work in crap jobs anymore etc etc.

I find it rather weird to say that the introduction of a base wage will solve or stop crime. Also, a lot of countries in Europe have a base wage. most people live in a country, which has one of the highest base wages in Europe. The only problem is that the difference between working and not-working should be kept large enough to give people who don't work more incentives to start working. This is not the case in some countries right now, so a large amount prefers to live on only the base wage. The problem in the US is more complex I believe, because it's such a different country with a different law and state structure.
I believe a minimum wage could be introduced in your country but not for the reasons you state. It should not be a reason for people not to work, but rather to help people who can't work.

Answer: Because I don't want to bust my ass and work hard to pay for some loser to sit at home and watch Jerry Springer all day.

IMAO funny

Well it happens now cause I love to watch Jerry springer and Montel Willams

Did I call that or what??  :D

who is going to be working at Kentucky Fried Chicken?

Would this means that "responsible" people would be working for less than those who comit crimes?

Since the economic recession, more people are now working for a basic wage than before, when there were more opportunities for school leavers and career prospects for students. Now they have less choice and could end up selling fast food when they would rather be in a higher-paying profession or ve at least have a job with prospects.

no one is forced to work like a slave. they chose that job because that's the only job they can get with the skills they have. if someone doesn't like their job they should better themselves to achieve the work they desire.

I think a lot of citizens from welfare states kind of have a crutch mentality knowing that they always have something to fall back upon. For those of us who don't have the government backing us up, the hunger that we have to go through, the need to feed our family would force us to be more proactive in finding a job. I truly believe that my unemployment episode had made me stronger as a person, and perhaps I wouldn't be who I am today if I were living in a welfare state.

Not too sure whether that is a good idea but l can see something like that coming into play in the future when more control is needed but l cannot see it happening anytime soon as it will not benefit everyone (employers), when we do get to that stage we are definitely in trouble because that means people will not be able to rise as everyone is getting the same wage so how do people get to go on holidays or buy a car if everyone is getting the same pay and they are all paying out the same amount of money week.

The reason I'm for a base wage is, I completely struggle to integrate myself with the society I live in. If I want to get a job, I have to change my personality and the way I dress to fit anothers expectations. Sure, theres plenty of jobs out there that might be able to incorporate my genuine self, but that doesnt mean those jobs are something that I am enthusiastic about doing. I am not a person who fits into the "job culture". When I go to a job interview I don't want to have to pretend that I give a shit, like I wouldnt rather be chillin or killin. I want to go there and they say, okay here have a job, go do some work and you get money. I don't want to have to put up a fake smile.

Base wage by my opinion is not a good idea, you will just make people not work and recieve benefits for that. I am conservative in spirit, so my opinion probably comes from that. But if you want to protect your citizens not starving to death and simmilar, give them food, give them shelter, give them the basic needs, but do not give them the money they did not earn.

The problem is, even if this was provided (putting aside all problems such as: where does the money come from? And so on...) it wouldn't work in a lot of countries. For example, in my country the social security net is amazing. If you lose your job, you get money from the government until you've found a job. If you're sick and can't work, you get money. It's not much, but it will be enough for you to live on until you've found a job. And this is not some 2-month thing, they will provide you with money for as long as you keep searching actively for a job.

However, some people still end up homeless. Why? Many of them are drug addicts who doesn't use the opportunity they were given on searching for a job, instead they use the money they get to take drugs, and when the government stops giving them money because they're not searching for a job/just using the money for drugs: they end up on the street. A base wage society is like an utopical thought if you ask me, and I would be really happy to see it work in some countries (Didn't Schweiz decide to do something like this?), but I don't think it would work well on a global scale.

This is unfair, think about it. Where will the money for base wage come from? People's taxes? so if you lessen the amount of people working then wouldn't that lead to less tax money for the government? and also what about the people who are paying their taxes and working their asses off, then here comes the government giving away their hard earned money to lazy people. Not only will the government be bankrupt people will riot as well.

Also another significant problem is that we have a Minimum Basic wage law which is very good on paper but in reality there are people who abuse this law and still give below minimum wage to manual laborers. This is the sad thing that people are doing, making money out of people's misery. Hopefully laws will have more teeth in the few years to come as I believe our generation will overturn these infuriating circumstances our country is in.

Even in wealthy countries, such as US and UK, there are many people living on a minimum wage or part time income. Food prices are rising and salaries are not.

If you want what society offers--even if that is sitting on your ass watching Jerry and Montel, how can you rant about having to fit in?...

I was joking and you took it to serious of what I said

Actually I don't care.  I just used it as an example.  Replace that with TV, computer, car, etc..  The point is the same.

Given: A base wage for every "citizen" is good.

Premise 1: A society with a base wage will be more productive.
Premise 2: Society will have fewer poor individuals.
Premise 3: A base wage will raise the standard of living.


What you're really saying...

It's okay to use violence to take the property of another. Or do you expect people to do this in a charitable fashion? In which case, I'd likely go along with it.

What will actually happen:

1. Society will become more violent by nature and theft more prevalent due to the fact you're encouraging that type of behavior. This is what we call the "entitlement" attitude. It's a fancy word for "justifiable thievery".

2. A temporary shift of property will transfer into the hands of the poorer class (base wage earner). It's likely this money/assets/property will be squandered which would have happened anyway without the entitlement program in the first place.

3. The poor will eventually become poor again, unless they try to change their lot in life by providing a service or product other's will desire (getting an education might help, maybe???). Just having stuff doesn't necessarily make you resourceful or productive.

4. The purchasing power of all individuals as a whole, over a period of time, will stabilize back to where it was previously, or go down, benefiting the poor over the short term. If you increase the money stock (inflation), you aren't creating anything. It's just numbers in a computer, or ink on paper. Altering raw materials into things/items which are desirable to another person is what improves the condition of the individual, and society as a whole. Money is nothing more than an accounting method. Although it can serve some other intrinsic purpose from time to time.

5. It doesn't matter if the base wage is 1 unit of money or 1,000,000 units of money, the purchasing power will eventually stabilize, unless we're talking about hard currencies, in which case, you will create a civil war. Nobody will tolerate stealing for too long (they tend to take it personal when they worked hard for their livelihood to only have it taken away from them to give it to somebody else who didn't earn it).

6. And as we're already aware, wars are not profitable. In fact, they're purely destructive. It's a lose-lose for everybody.



TL;DR: Don't steal, don't inflate. It isn't nice, and it tends to lead to violent behavior.

It's easy.  Pass a law making the minimum wage $1,000 per hour.

Problem solved.

It's so easy I often wonder why the authoritarian collectivists didn't think of this sooner.  ;D

You're not generous enough... $10,000 per hour. Happy times, happy times... clap, clap, clap... Yayyyyyy!!!!

Grand Idea while we at it, we should give free 401K with that base wage.

Yep.  'Cause I don't mind dropping $400 on a lunch at KFC, as long the kid behind the counter that hates his job can buy that new Porsche.

How about fixing the minimum wage at $.50 an hour? Or $.60? Hey, nobody said minimum wage should make you rich, right? There are millions in India who would be happy to work 50 hours a week for that kind of money. Now, what about the people who are unable to do anything worth 50 cents in one hour of work? They will stay out of the job market and live on state benefits if they're lucky enough to live in a country where that exists, otherwise, they will die.

thats really messed up, why dont you go work for that much, this is why USA is in shit now

You need to look at the before and after to understand what a higher minimum wage would do.  I am only going to comment on the USA as other countries have differences in structure that will cause differing outcomes.

Right now:
Many low wage jobs have replaced manufacturing jobs that would pay a living wage.
Many people work in low wage jobs because higher wage jobs are not available due to a changing economy. 
Many of the people earning lower wages get government subsidies (food stamps etc) to make up for the low wage.

After $15 minimum wage
Raising wages at places like Walmart and KFC would have an affect on prices but the affect would probably be less then 5%.
Many taxes would be saved because people with jobs would be less reliant on government subsidies.
Very few jobs at the bigger companies would be lost as a percentage. 
Smaller companies would be more hurt especially non chain restaurants  and small stores.  Those jobs would not go away, they would be replaced in bigger companies as the smaller ones went under. 
Many consumers would have more purchasing power, more than the inflation caused by the price increases BUT the middle class would gain little or no additional money and would be effected by inflaction.

------------
In the end the poor would benefit, the government would benefit  (more taxable wages and less subsidies) and the middle class would be FURTHER hurt. 

I think this will happen in the end.  The middle class in America cannot seem to get a break. 

Don't be so stingy Little.

At least make it $30 per hour.  ::)

I agree with this concept, but this would also mean that we would be working for a common good, for society as a whole, for the good of people and sadly that is utopic because we can only think about ourselves and not about others.

If true then wouldn't you expect minimum wage to correlate with any metric for violent crime and thievery?

I'm fully in favour of the OP's idea. I mean the state/government (and society since it's the official representative) is just a servant of the upper social strata, mostly as protector of property. Hence, if the state has enough money to pay cops to suppress the population or just plain beat up people and masquerade that as "protection from criminals", wage wars to promote special interests, etc etc, then they should be able to fund a living standard income. Right?

And that is why this idea is not viable. In order to fund the new base wage, the government needs to increase the tax rates (all the taxes, income tax, VAT, corporate tax.etc). The problem is that, too much tax kills tax, as a French analyst pointed out a few days ago. A prime example can be found here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27602312

A base wage is nice in theory as long as people still have an incentive to work and improve their own standard of living.
As in they do not just leech from the base wage perpetually and become a drain to the system itself.
Of course this means a higher rate of taxation so people should be able to enjoy a balance between a base wage and higher taxation to cover better quality services.
As for France it just overburdened the Rich with ridiculous tax rates no wonder they moved, any of these type of systems need to have a strong foundation to be built upon not a shaky one as a reaction for the country bad misaligned financial management.

What makes you think that current taxation is wisely spend and that in order to have a minimum income it'd be necessary to raise taxes? Just by curtailing the tax avoidance that's taking place on the top companies you got your problem solved. I mean it's kinda sad to see people that are apparently ok with the idea of funding nukes through their tax money but are quite resistant towards any  social program.

Regarding the "as long as s/he get's a job" attitude. Who holds the bargaining position when it comes to a job? Why should the grandchild of a landowner who got his property by a mad king be in the favour of the state (guarantee of property)?

Lets say the United States is imposing a minimum base wage of $30 per hour ($240 per day, $60,000 per year). Some 200 million people are in the economically active category in the US. Even if 50% of them make use of this base wage (Right now 80% earns less than $30 ph), it will cost the government some $6 trillion per year. From where will this much money come from?

This has been a big problem. If you look at the amount someone would earn at a min. wage job, then calculate 40 hours (full-time) per week. After taxes they are still living a minimalist lifestyle. I know people who work full-time and still have to live with their parents because they can't afford to be on their own.