Bitcoin Forum

Both paypal and ebay have been banning accounts for months if you had anything to do with bitcoin.

I personally had over 5,000 held by paypal and had to refund 50+ orders on ebay back in December 2013.

Now both Paypal and Ebay are trying to add bitcoin.

Paypal has already tired to get patent for btc wallets and ebay filed for a patent for auctions with BTC back in June of 2013. So all the blocking of accounts was just to slow down competitors from growing too big too fast.

Seems to me that they where just trying to kill any competitors while they where small.

I propose we pull together and  show Paypal and Ebay that they can't getaway with holding us down while they get ready.

I spoke with both paypal and ebay back in December when they where blocking my accounts, and they assured me that they would never ever even consider adding BTC. I also told them that I would organize a class action and Boycott if I found out that they where just trying to kill to competitors. 


You cant compete with their bankroll for BTC development, but you had a head start on them, and they took that away from you to hold you down. Don't let them get away with it.

there are already tons of people who hate ebay/paypal.. if you google up "paypal complaint" you'll see tons of them. nothing will likely happen.

this is why i try to avoid using paypal as much as i often can.

I think this is losing battle. People hate PayPal but you're not going to win a war of attrition against their legal team.

i think the only way to flip them the bird is just to stop using the services, at least as much as possible. if you rely on them to make money, then do it.. people need to earn a living. but try to avoid using them whenever possible, and respectfully tell other people how fucked up they are.

otherwise, you can't do shit to goliath when you are just a david.

The only thing a capitalist hates more than a communist is a competitor.

Unless there are 30 goliaths and 3 billion davids...

Genius

well, so far those 30 goliaths are winning and the 3 billion davids have had their voices reduced.. because those 30 goliaths have much, much more money, organization and influence than 3 billion davids.

It only took 1 David to beat Goliath

+1!

Accurate statement.

Your statement reminded me of this vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2OIt1w7Sas

Why even make such a stupid post if you didn't already start doing something about it. Sounds like you want someone else to do the work for you. This isn't going anywhere because you're not serious. Just delete this, big words mean nothing. Actions over words.

Requesting to wait a few more days for the action...

I have been emailing class action lawyers all morning. I am even planing to place a retainer out of my own funds. We will wait for a week or two to let word spread of what we are doing.

You underestimate me and just how far I'm willing to take this. It's ok if none of you join up with me. I will fight for you anyway even if I have to do it alone. I am not afraid to stand up for whats right.

We cannot allow new startups of be suppressed by the big players.

 Not exactly accurate.

 It's merely unfettered capitalist otherwise known as Capitalist Pigs that hates a competitor.

 And exactly why this is the 2nd Gilded Age of Fraud & Greed - Gone Insane.


 But yes: J Paul Getty believed that competition was a Sin. Standard Oil Empire was finally broken apart after he ruined many a business competitor.

 Bill Gates allegedly did much the same things to many a tech competitor as well.

 As have many other Business giants.

 All to the severe harm of our current mess and standards of living.



 Of course the short term is: Pig.


 And then they think they can buy their way into Heavens Gates by giving much away before.after they die.

 Say hello to the Big Devil Bill, and J. Paul is waiting to welcome you! That is if those stories are true.

 It's the same for Big Oil, Big Auto, and Big Everything else these days. And why so many are unemployed, or under-employed or making peanuts. It's tough to survive any real small business, or even start-up most small enterprises without lot's of Capital, and even then half fail within 2 years time.

 Welcome to Bankster/Corporate Fascism.


 Where the Big Queens Bailout themselves and send everyone else the bills.


 Where they Socialize all their losses and Privatize all their Bailouts.

 And then have the nerve to call this "socialism" after 15.3 Trillion in FED bailouts, backstops and Guarantees. And that doesn't count risk free trillions for merely parking Bank deposits at the FED that were loaned to them at next to nothing interest rates.

 Yea, yea, Capitalism, Wrong.


 We used to toss the crooks in Jail for a long time. Seize their Banks, Put them in Receivership, Straighten out the messes, liquidate their assets, pay off the debts, and move forward.

 Now were back to the 2nd Gilded Age because of dumbed down stupid programmed obedient worker slaves too dumb to know their getting butt fucked from cradle to grave. Oops their goes your health care coverage, oops there goes your pension just before you retire. Oops there went your IRA and 401k Nationalized to pay government debts. Oops...there went your tech jobs to China, India, Malaysia, or anywhere Bill Gates, Apple, Google, etc. can find them.

 Capitalism...long since dead and buried.


 You young one's will never know how great the 1950's through the early 1970's really were. When the top tax rate for zillionaires was 90+%. Suckers...



Bitcoin is Freedom.

It needs the one right David with enough anger in his face to take down the Goliath.

http://escape-artists.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/bernini_david_head.jpg

https://www.google.de/search?q=bernini+david&rlz=1C1LENP_deDE568__568&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Q215U8aRHoSvOZO9gNgI&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=600

I stopped using either service long before bit coin existed. I would never use paypal again for any reason. Exorbitant fees and frozen funds are their business model.

Thank you for sharing that. It really shows what we as a crypto community are up against in terms of leveling the playing field.


And not to be off topic, i never have nor will i ever use ebay/paypal.

paypal has been robbing people for years .. they must have stolen tens of millions of dollars by now. Do any of these class action suits against Paypal ever really succeed?  They are so plugged into the government and visa/mastercard ...

What exactly would are you planning to take them to court for? As far as I know they operate pretty much inside their TOS which you agree to when you sign up. As a result unless their TOS is itself illegal (which I don't think it is) then you don't really have any merit for any case. I do agree they have big issues with customer support (in particular unfair bias on Bitcoin transactions) but nonetheless I don't see what you can do about it.

Aren't class action lawsuits expensive (like in the 40k+ range just for the retainer)?

Anyways, if you get something going, I'm positive others will join in. Asking if anyone else is interested is a bit ridiculous; you should already know they are. The question is whether or not you can actually get anyone to pursue them.

I haven't been screwed by Paypal directly. Paypal has helped me a bit regarding Bitcoin and BFL and I was able to get my refund from them. They didn't lock my account. For other things though, I've had issues with Paypal. I will no longer use them, at least to the best of my abilities. When other sites start taking bitcoin and other altcoins, I will completely separate myself from Paypal.

You have no idea how pro-bitcoin ebay is. They even have a cryptocurrency section.Ebay has even filed paterns that mention bitcoin inside them. In the future we might even be exchanging coins in their website.

And Ebay owns paypal so yeah...

I got screwed by them in an unrelated matter as well. I logged in one day and found $4800 in my account that wasn't mine. I reported it (because it's the right thing to do) and they froze MY funds (and that 4800) for 12 months while "investigating" where it came from. After 12 months they stated that they couldn't figure out where the money came from so they'd have to confiscate it, and then they withdrew my remaining funds to my bank and they locked my account permanently.

Just got this response form Attorneys:


 Thank you for contacting our firm regarding you potential claim against Ebay/Paypal. In order to evaluate your potential claim, we will need to review a copy of the account agreement/Terms & Conditions of Use that you agreed to when you set up your account(s).  Please send me a copy of any agreements you have with Ebay or Paypal.

I'm not sure where I have this info at, but I will look for it. Any of you that wish to join in please forward any info you may have on account agreement/Terms & Conditions of Use for ebay and paypal.

Because the ToS changes when you join, you can just pull the one from their site since that's the current agreement and will represent the contract.

I really don't understand how OP believes anyone has a leg to stand on here? You use their service, you agree to the terms. Good luck trying to argue against Ebay's legal team hehe.

Yes, what is the cause of action here? To pursue a class action you would need to have a claim as an individual first, then others in the same position can join the class.

Been informed by lawyers that when you sing up for ebay you waive the right to bring a class action in court and must do it case by case in arbitration. Not looking good at this point. 

Sorry to hear that but not surprised. These monoliths always have clever legalese protections for themselves that your average person could never hope to compete with.

I'm sorry to hear that. Was it due to the TOS?

It's worth mentioning that what's in the ToS does not always hold up in court. If it's something that a judge deems as being invalid, they can throw out anything and everything found within the agreement. This is often seen in things like prenuptials, where a judge can decide that although both parties agreed and signed, it was unfair to one party or the other and they are disregarding details.

think there is a clause on ebay and paypal terms of service(y, that one that you put as read even without reading, when you sign up) saying you can't use them for buying and selling currencies. If is this, they are legally ""right"" to do it, if you are related to bitcoin but not selling or buying cryptos, then you might have a change.

But this is capitalism, we have the choice of don't use them and support others that use and accepts btc, like bitpay.

Just delete your account. I did that back in the days, when they froze Wikileaks-funds.

Sadly, there are things that require Paypal. It sucks but it's something we just have to live with. They've basically monopolized things like eBay.

I haven't used Ebay for years, but since Ebay bought Paypal, I believe you with that.
But which other Service isn't usable without Paypal.
It might be, because I live in Europe, but I never had any Problems, since I deleted my Paypal-Account.

A lot of people will only accept and pay out in Paypal. Google Wallet, while it is a contender, isn't as widely accepted.

Why? Is your Banking System that bad? I can use SEPA in the whole EU, without a second thought. There are Services like https://www.sofort.com, where the vendor also gets an instant confirmation, that I made a valid Transaction.
Just outside of the EU it is not that easy.

Are you talking about vendors inside your Country(USA?) or outside?

Does anyone ever succesfully sue ebay? This is likely to fail as well.

I'm talking about individuals. There are many people who will only pay using Paypal (due to protection), which leads to a situation where Paypal has been embedded. If you send a bank transfer, there is absolutely no recourse if you get scammed; it's like sending Bitcoin. There are just far too many scams to rely on that. Not to mention nobody is going to do a bank transfer for $3.

They did say it was because of the TOS. I have hears of cases where they throw out the agreements. There was a case in New Mexico with payday loans, the judge through the whole contract out do to it being too one sided in favor of the lender. There is always a possibility we can do something if we pull together, but a legal retainer in not enough at this point.

Also several people have brought up a good point: What exactly are we suing them for? I have several old tort books but I don't know the answer to this question off the top of my head. 

It may also be significant to note that the only legit legal authority in the USA, the IRS, to attempted to define what a bitcoin is has chosen to define it as property, and not currency.   

I would also bring up the fact that eBay's CEO stated that they are working towards implementing Bitcoin in both eBay and PayPal. So for them to be hostile against it is completely wrong.

Don't you think you might want to figure that out first?  I mean seriously?  You don't even know why you are suing them? 

Paypal are genuis are ripping people off. I wouldnt ever sell Crypto related stuff on there again.

Fixed that for you ;)

Yes in day's gone by disputes were settled 1:1 with rocks and swords so it was feasible, now we have lawyers.

RF

The best way to get back at them is to vote with your currency. These kinds of organizations always have layers of protection that average people can never hope to compete with. Part of the idea of bit coin is to take that power back from them. When you control your own money you don't need a paypal. They will be obsolete.

I fail to see the issue, you can still beat lawyers with rocks.



Bada bing!

I don't know how so many delusional people exist, but the main purpose of these forums is for people to talk about all the "stuff" they are going to do/are doing. I would put a conservative estimate at 99% of posts stating "I am going to do this" end up doing absolutely nothing and they receive almost no help and no one really cares. These forums are definitely not a place to get things done at, that's for sure. Just because you have the intention of doing these "Great grand good wonderful" things, doesn't mean anything. Substance over words. Put your money where your mouth is. Go out and lose 40,000 Dollars hiring lawyers and you end up losing in the end anyways. So stupid to even want to do this, and anyone who participates in giving you money is a fool who will never see a dime repaid to them.

To add on to this, you can sue anyone for anything; whether you will win or not is a different story. Lawyers will take on any case (usually) since they get paid regardless as to whether or not they win. Think about that before doing anything.

Sorry to say that, but People like you are the reason, why the world is how it is.
I admire People, who really do something and not just say "Somebody should do this and somebody should do that". Really doing something is a lot of work, it is a big risk, sure, but sometimes it is a risk worth taking.
If you really think, that small People can't do anything against big companies, than you obviously neither know history nor current News.

It only took 1 David to beat Goliath

agreed.