Bitcoin Forum

I see this all the time now...

the starfish is back!  yippie!

I notice it move only as much as the leverage available, then the star comes up.. and movements are stopped.. 

yeah, maybe you should open a site and lend money to people to buy coins. Also try never to run out no matter how much people want to borrow.

If the Bitcoinica asterisk is stopping the supposed rally, then it's not a real rally.

Is it true, did you spot the * again?!

I’ve only seen it a few days ago when the price was 5.6.

how then pay won (If the majority of players will close out positions with a profit)?

Only problem is bitcoinica is tying up money witch would be spent on mtgox otherwise. Only money on the real market can influence the price imo.

I also don't see it. Maybe it popped up for a short moment, and people sold when they saw it? Strange stuff.

BINGO!!!!!!!!

I see what you did there

Bitcoinica's leverage is a joke..  plain and simple

If only it were true that Bitcoinica trades didn't influence prices. Essentially that would even out a lot of speculative bubbles and crashes. I don't think that's the case, though. The moves just happen in larger spikes when Bitcoinica has to buy or sell USD to cover their positions as  people liquidate or get force liquidated.

half the moves people make dont translate to mtgox..

It absorbs movement.

Then someone makes a big play on it, and then stopped by the starfish..

Its stupid.. its hindering normal movement up.   

And does almost nothing to hinder movement down.

Awesome model..

In other words, if all these plays were just people on mtgox, and their own money..

We would have had a serious movement up weeks ago...

Well as long as bitcoinica doesn't trade on the real market their is no way it can influence it. It is a closed of system and the price is only based on the mtgox price.
If I sell 100BTC at bitcoinica at a leverage of 10. This will change noting at the value of the price on bitcoinica because it takes it prices of mtgox and these prices didn't change.
At the end it doesn't matter what happens to my money on bitcionica. It's a closed of system.

Well yes, it acts like a closed system..

But it isnt totally..   there is a lot of "Wash" internally on bitcoinica..

And its just reactionary to mtgox.. soo..

Its just stifling the money

No. Most of the trades you do on Bitcoinica end up on MtGox in one way or another. Try to go short/long for more than 50 BTC and see what happens on Mtgox Live. Anything smaller maybe is accounted for internally, but bigger positions are always reflected on MtGox.

So it's a black hole for demand somehow, but not supply?

It's obviously not a 'closed system' either. It doesn't have to pass everything somewhere else to not be closed, it has to pass anything ever to not be closed.

I love how everything bad is bitcoinica's fault now.

Ok didn't now that. Only problem I see then is when ppl want to go long and their is a *. Al the money on bitcoinica cant go long so is indeed slows a 'rally'. If their money was on mtgox it was still tradeble.

Bitcoinica prevented bubble 2.0.

Like hell..  all its doing is preventing the inevitable...

well then it's not preventing anything is it?

no single entity can prevent market forces.

this is true for the stock market where the FED will be failing to keep stock prices inflated

and it is true for bitcoin...

It's good for bitcoin to grow slowly this time. The last summer bubble was considered the fall of bitcoin by many after it burst even though it did a good job spreading the news. I think bitcoin prices should get to the next level only if it's sustainable to stay there for a few months.

It's quite common to see goal orientated analysis on the Bitcoin forum.  It goes something like this: "Bitcoin is going up, so what reasons can I find for it doing so?" and "Bitcoin didn't go up as it should have, what reasons can I find for it not behaving the way I expected?"

Bitcoinica is the latest in a long string of entities blamed with either failing to pump the price up, or clamping the rise.  Bitcoinica has replaced 'the manipulator'.  On the up side, The Good Wife failed to produce thousands of eager new bitcoin customers right after they saw the show (despite claims by many this would happen).

You dont understand the internals of whats going on with bitcoinica..

Its a bucket shop, with very little leverage, that makes a sign when they are out of leverage..


This is the equivalent to poker and telling your opponent your hidden cards..

Bitcoinica is a huge player on mtgox, it stands to reason, people with the money are heavily abusing this mirror under the poker table..

The starfish to me is just saying bitcoinica is offering too much leverage if they cant afford to give it to everyone when they ask for it..

And if you actually play with bitcoinica, you'll notice that you cant cash out when its profitable, because they have no funds left..

I good rule would be to have as much in leverage for everyone to go to their max leverage, what ever that is..

If you cant do that, dont offer as much leverage, its getting ridiculous..

I don't use bitcoinica, but that directly contradicts Zhou. He says positions can always be closed, * means you can't borrow to lever.