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Title: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: lyth0s on May 25, 2014, 04:18:27 AM Found this today, seems although Bitstamp is making it EXTREMELY difficulty to withdraw both BTC and Fiat currency. Seems like a Mt. Gox 2.0 problem. If they end up being insolvent do you guys think BTC price will increase (due to realized less supply of coins) or go down due to bad media coverage plus people trying to recoup some of their losses?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26apno/bitstamp_will_not_process_withdrawal_unless_you/ Quote We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image of both pages of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire: 1. How did you learn about Bitcoin? 2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account. 3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment. 4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange? 5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future? 6. Which bank do you intend to use? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code. 7. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)? We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket. OK fine, here are the details and my passport (already verified with driver's license and had swift code already entered). They required that I prove where the coins came from that I sold. I provided the receipt from the exchange. Here is what they came back with. Thank you for your reply. Please note that the provided information is for only 5 BTC while you have deposited to and sold on Bitstamp more than xxx bitcoins. We kindly ask you to send us a signed message of your personal, most used wallet so we can establish the veracity of your statements. some people may bring about their recent "proof of solvency" of Bitstamp by firestartr.co (whoever the hell that is). It is just a statement though, no blockchain proof. And the PDF is even broken on my PC https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/Firestartr_DD_Letter_for_Bitstamp.pdf Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 25, 2014, 04:21:22 AM Found this today, seems although Bitstamp is making it EXTREMELY difficulty to withdraw both BTC and Fiat currency. Seems like a Mt. Gox 2.0 problem. If they end up being insolvent do you guys think BTC price will increase (due to realized less supply of coins) or go down due to bad media coverage plus people trying to recoup some of their losses? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26apno/bitstamp_will_not_process_withdrawal_unless_you/ Quote We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image of both pages of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire: 1. How did you learn about Bitcoin? 2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account. 3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment. 4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange? 5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future? 6. Which bank do you intend to use? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code. 7. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)? We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket. OK fine, here are the details and my passport (already verified with driver's license and had swift code already entered). They required that I prove where the coins came from that I sold. I provided the receipt from the exchange. Here is what they came back with. Thank you for your reply. Please note that the provided information is for only 5 BTC while you have deposited to and sold on Bitstamp more than xxx bitcoins. We kindly ask you to send us a signed message of your personal, most used wallet so we can establish the veracity of your statements. some people may bring about their recent "proof of solvency" of Bitstamp by firestartr.co (whoever the hell that is). It is just a statement though, no blockchain proof. And the PDF is even broken on my PC https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/Firestartr_DD_Letter_for_Bitstamp.pdf If they are insolvent, the price would go down first (as we've seen with Gox) and then would go back up after. I will say that it would hurt the morale more than it already has, though, in that people are starting to lose trust already. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: harlenadler on May 25, 2014, 04:23:46 AM Bitstamp leads the western exchanges, so if any news like that broke, price would definitely go down imo. Dont Bitpay and Coinbase use Bitstamp sometimes? Some merchants too possibly. And I think Bitstamp inherited the "face of bitcoin" role from Gox, so theres that too. But after the darkest day comes the light, LOL.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 25, 2014, 04:25:00 AM Bitstamp leads the western exchanges, so if any news like that broke, price would definitely go down imo. Dont Bitpay and Coinbase use Bitstamp sometimes? Some merchants too possibly. And I think Bitstamp inherited the "face of bitcoin" role from Gox, so theres that too. But after the darkest day comes the light, LOL. Yeah, Bitpay and Coinbase both use Bitstamp as one of their exchanges, so it would affect both (presumably) as a result. The price would likely bounce back after a couple months, though, so it could be good for people wanting to buy in cheap. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Ron~Popeil on May 25, 2014, 05:27:38 AM Wow that is worse than a paypal freeze. One of the many reasons I will never do business with bit stamp.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: lyth0s on May 25, 2014, 05:58:46 AM Yeah coinbase is hypotheized to resell/buy off bitstamp and I believe Bitpay uses bitstamp to convert the BTC to fiat for their customers. With that being said they would need to find new exchanges/marketplaces (maybe even create their own for double profit?) in order to continue business as usual.
I don't how how many more insolvent bitcoin exchanges the public will take tbh. I think another big exchange like Bitstamp going down could put bitcoin in a major set back for a long period of time. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: atp1916 on May 25, 2014, 06:09:46 AM This type of account verification is nothing new. It's been in place since September 2013.
That being said, Bitstamp is formally incorporated in the UK, and given the UK's closeness to the US in the context of law enforcement / anti-terrorism is it any wonder that the UK government is (probably) putting pressure on Bitstamp to do a better job at KYC enforcement? Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Divinespark on May 25, 2014, 06:14:56 AM BitstAmp also has lots of European customers from diff nations
Makes Kyc onerous and complex at scale Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 25, 2014, 06:21:40 AM This type of account verification is nothing new. It's been in place since September 2013. That being said, Bitstamp is formally incorporated in the UK, and given the UK's closeness to the US in the context of law enforcement / anti-terrorism is it any wonder that the UK government is (probably) putting pressure on Bitstamp to do a better job at KYC enforcement? Here in the US I've never heard of anyone having to go through and validate every single dollar and where it came from. If you came to me today and asked me to go through my current bank balance (despite how small it is), I still couldn't do that because you get bits and pieces from here and there. It's ridiculous to expect people to keep up with every cent they get, where it came from, when it was spent and what it was spent on. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: lyth0s on May 25, 2014, 07:15:58 AM This type of account verification is nothing new. It's been in place since September 2013. That being said, Bitstamp is formally incorporated in the UK, and given the UK's closeness to the US in the context of law enforcement / anti-terrorism is it any wonder that the UK government is (probably) putting pressure on Bitstamp to do a better job at KYC enforcement? Accounting for where all your coins came from or having to take a photo with your face + your bank statement + your Passport in hand is excessive IMO. I would never go through all that trouble for any service within the US. Are you sure that account verification is that strict in the UK? Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Skele on May 25, 2014, 07:58:32 AM This type of account verification is nothing new. It's been in place since September 2013. That being said, Bitstamp is formally incorporated in the UK, and given the UK's closeness to the US in the context of law enforcement / anti-terrorism is it any wonder that the UK government is (probably) putting pressure on Bitstamp to do a better job at KYC enforcement? Accounting for where all your coins came from or having to take a photo with your face + your bank statement + your Passport in hand is excessive IMO. I would never go through all that trouble for any service within the US. Are you sure that account verification is that strict in the UK? It sounds just like a anti money laundering rules, why would they be insolvent? Due to a hack again? Bitstamp just takes some slice from the fees, they are not giving any kind of interest Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: gentlemand on May 25, 2014, 11:45:38 AM I don't think they're insolvent. I do think their practices are totally unacceptable. Once regulated US exchanges open up and Kraken gets some proper momentum they'll be left in the dust where they belong.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Fippy on May 25, 2014, 12:54:49 PM I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this:
This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: BCwinning on May 25, 2014, 12:59:06 PM it's none of their business where the coins came from. idgaf if it is for laundering purposes or not.
imnsho its a good place to not do business with if they want to be that anal down to the micro bit. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Bagatell on May 25, 2014, 01:03:12 PM I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this: This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term. Great first post. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: DogeBalla on May 25, 2014, 01:06:33 PM I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this: This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term. Great first post. +1 Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Fippy on May 25, 2014, 01:18:30 PM it's none of their business where the coins came from. idgaf if it is for laundering purposes or not. imnsho its a good place to not do business with if they want to be that anal down to the micro bit. Most of the questions fall into the 'cover your ass' category of information they need to have available to provide in the event of a regulatory inquiry. Almost any BS answer will likely be acceptable for them, as they simply need something to 'fill in the blank' that looks somewhere within shouting distance of accurate. Having a massive blank there is a huge red flag that is a liability for them, having literally anything there allows them to meet their regulatory obligations. It's the job of the regulatory agencies involved in any inquiry to play connect the dots, should there ever be reason to do so. Bitstamp's only obligation is to provide dots. While you might consider it anal, the plain and simple fact is that should Bitcoin ever gain true mainstream traction, you will see more of this simply due to the fact that no financial system of any sort is going to go mainstream without meeting some level of regulatory standards. All of this is information that is the same type of information that is 'free-floating' in the mainstream financial system, you simply aren't regularly asked questions like this because the banks already have a system in place that creates the obligatory paper trail and have for years. It's so interwoven into the fabric of international banking we don't even notice it anymore. Bitcoin will need to step up to this level to become truly 'mainstream'. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: worldlybedouin on May 25, 2014, 06:11:33 PM In general I have no problem with KYC policies and complying with them. I think Bitstamp has just gone way overboard though. There's such a thing as CYA and then there's overkill which is what I think they are doing. I've completed KYC with banks and BTC exchanges and none required this much hoop jumping. I'm all for helping to legitimize BTC, but when its actually more cumbersome than what other exchanges require it's just too easy for me to leave Bitstamp....
sooo...Adios! I wish Bitstamp all the best luck in the world. We need a really solid and reputable BTC exchange, but when you dial the KYC down just a little bit, give me a call...I'll be back. Cheers! Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 25, 2014, 06:19:59 PM In general I have no problem with KYC policies and complying with them. I think Bitstamp has just gone way overboard though. There's such a thing as CYA and then there's overkill which is what I think they are doing. I've completed KYC with banks and BTC exchanges and none required this much hoop jumping. I'm all for helping to legitimize BTC, but when its actually more cumbersome than what other exchanges require it's just too easy for me to leave Bitstamp.... sooo...Adios! I wish Bitstamp all the best luck in the world. We need a really solid and reputable BTC exchange, but when you dial the KYC down just a little bit, give me a call...I'll be back. Cheers! This is how I feel. I don't have problems with submitting information, ID, etc. You do the same when you want a loan. My problem is having to sit around and think about where every single coin came from. That's absurd. Even when getting a mortgage loan they don't require you to do this; they simply want to know where your income comes from. They don't have you go through your bank accounts and look at every single deposit (like cash) and ask where it came from. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: crocko on May 25, 2014, 08:43:40 PM Found this today, seems although Bitstamp is making it EXTREMELY difficulty to withdraw both BTC and Fiat currency. Seems like a Mt. Gox 2.0 problem. If they end up being insolvent do you guys think BTC price will increase (due to realized less supply of coins) or go down due to bad media coverage plus people trying to recoup some of their losses? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26apno/bitstamp_will_not_process_withdrawal_unless_you/ Quote We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image of both pages of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire: 1. How did you learn about Bitcoin? 2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account. 3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment. 4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange? 5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future? 6. Which bank do you intend to use? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code. 7. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)? We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket. OK fine, here are the details and my passport (already verified with driver's license and had swift code already entered). They required that I prove where the coins came from that I sold. I provided the receipt from the exchange. Here is what they came back with. Thank you for your reply. Please note that the provided information is for only 5 BTC while you have deposited to and sold on Bitstamp more than xxx bitcoins. We kindly ask you to send us a signed message of your personal, most used wallet so we can establish the veracity of your statements. some people may bring about their recent "proof of solvency" of Bitstamp by firestartr.co (whoever the hell that is). It is just a statement though, no blockchain proof. And the PDF is even broken on my PC https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/Firestartr_DD_Letter_for_Bitstamp.pdf Bitstamp is OK, stop spreading FUD ! Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: kerafym on May 25, 2014, 09:17:42 PM Most likely their hotwallet are empty.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: MyPotPlantDied on May 25, 2014, 09:37:59 PM I believe they just went through a very thorough audit not too long ago. I think it is more a case of them being paranoid about following all the regulations.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: r34tr783tr78 on May 26, 2014, 12:27:48 AM As stated, long after they started this excessive KYC practice (how can someone clean money by withdrawing bitcoin? Cleaning money implies exchanging it for fiat and transfering this money to a bank account), they did an audit.
Until the day you see them delaying withdraws, after people sent all requested documents, I think you can forget about Bitstamp insolvency. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: davidgdg on May 26, 2014, 08:38:57 AM Found this today, seems although Bitstamp is making it EXTREMELY difficulty to withdraw both BTC and Fiat currency. Seems like a Mt. Gox 2.0 problem. If they end up being insolvent do you guys think BTC price will increase (due to realized less supply of coins) or go down due to bad media coverage plus people trying to recoup some of their losses? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26apno/bitstamp_will_not_process_withdrawal_unless_you/ Quote We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image of both pages of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire: 1. How did you learn about Bitcoin? 2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account. 3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment. 4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange? 5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future? 6. Which bank do you intend to use? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code. 7. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)? We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket. OK fine, here are the details and my passport (already verified with driver's license and had swift code already entered). They required that I prove where the coins came from that I sold. I provided the receipt from the exchange. Here is what they came back with. Thank you for your reply. Please note that the provided information is for only 5 BTC while you have deposited to and sold on Bitstamp more than xxx bitcoins. We kindly ask you to send us a signed message of your personal, most used wallet so we can establish the veracity of your statements. some people may bring about their recent "proof of solvency" of Bitstamp by firestartr.co (whoever the hell that is). It is just a statement though, no blockchain proof. And the PDF is even broken on my PC https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/Firestartr_DD_Letter_for_Bitstamp.pdf If they are insolvent, the price would go down first (as we've seen with Gox) and then would go back up after. I will say that it would hurt the morale more than it already has, though, in that people are starting to lose trust already. Is this only for BTC sellers? The letter seems specifically directed at sellers rather than buyers. Have any buyers received a similar letter? Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Nicolas Dorier on May 26, 2014, 09:35:55 AM While you might consider it anal, the plain and simple fact is that should Bitcoin ever gain true mainstream traction, you will see more of this simply due to the fact that no financial system of any sort is going to go mainstream without meeting some level of regulatory standards. All of this is information that is the same type of information that is 'free-floating' in the mainstream financial system, you simply aren't regularly asked questions like this because the banks already have a system in place that creates the obligatory paper trail and have for years. It's so interwoven into the fabric of international banking we don't even notice it anymore. Bitcoin will need to step up to this level to become truly 'mainstream'. This is true for financial institution today, but with bitcoin, the barrier of entry to create an exchange is not anymore between the hands of governments. Which means that if customer don't like it, they will search a substitute and accept the risk, and find a substitute. Today financial institution complies because the government also ensure some barrier of entry in their market. This won't be the case with bitcoin. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: kroy101 on May 26, 2014, 10:03:02 AM I withdrawed ~$1500 yesterday and the payments has already been processed....
no questions asked, no hassle, no problems, no nothing Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: davidgdg on May 26, 2014, 02:18:01 PM I withdrawed ~$1500 yesterday and the payments has already been processed.... no questions asked, no hassle, no problems, no nothing I've never had any problem with them buying or withdrawing BTC. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Corelianer on May 26, 2014, 02:33:24 PM These questions are normal. You can also run into this questions if you deposit a higher ammount of fiat on it.
I got the same, once it was complete, it just went back to normal processing. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Amph on May 26, 2014, 03:38:45 PM i don't care much, i'm using kraken , which is the best i think
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 26, 2014, 07:31:25 PM While you might consider it anal, the plain and simple fact is that should Bitcoin ever gain true mainstream traction, you will see more of this simply due to the fact that no financial system of any sort is going to go mainstream without meeting some level of regulatory standards. All of this is information that is the same type of information that is 'free-floating' in the mainstream financial system, you simply aren't regularly asked questions like this because the banks already have a system in place that creates the obligatory paper trail and have for years. It's so interwoven into the fabric of international banking we don't even notice it anymore. Bitcoin will need to step up to this level to become truly 'mainstream'. This is true for financial institution today, but with bitcoin, the barrier of entry to create an exchange is not anymore between the hands of governments. Which means that if customer don't like it, they will search a substitute and accept the risk, and find a substitute. Today financial institution complies because the government also ensure some barrier of entry in their market. This won't be the case with bitcoin. While you're right in that it's decentralized and not part of any specific government, that doesn't mean that there's no government control. As we've seen in the past, the governments can actually exert a lot of control over exchanges. So this isn't really true. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Skele on May 26, 2014, 07:46:48 PM Here are some real threats to bitcoin.. and bitstamp is not one them..
"Any new and disruptive technology has its share of detractors who do their utmost to imbue the perceived threat with negative connotations. This has been happening for eons, and will continue until the end of time." http://www.coindesk.com/five-biggest-threats-facing-bitcoin/ Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Marbit on May 26, 2014, 11:54:39 PM I'd say Bitstamp going down (insolvency, government shut-down, etc) would be pretty bad for the price of bitcoin, short term (months or maybe a year). A lot of services use them, and they are the most well known exchange. But it would not kill BTC by any means.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 26, 2014, 11:56:24 PM I'd say Bitstamp going down (insolvency, government shut-down, etc) would be pretty bad for the price of bitcoin, short term (months or maybe a year). A lot of services use them, and they are the most well known exchange. But it would not kill BTC by any means. It would cause a loss of trust in other exchanges, though. We are already hitting that point as it is, with all the scams and "hacks" going around. One more major one like this could be detrimental to the morale. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Marbit on May 27, 2014, 12:01:18 AM I'd say Bitstamp going down (insolvency, government shut-down, etc) would be pretty bad for the price of bitcoin, short term (months or maybe a year). A lot of services use them, and they are the most well known exchange. But it would not kill BTC by any means. It would cause a loss of trust in other exchanges, though. We are already hitting that point as it is, with all the scams and "hacks" going around. One more major one like this could be detrimental to the morale. Sure, that's why I think months or maybe a year. Inevitably as more trustworthy and regulated businesses/exchanges come about, people's level of comfort will improve as well. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Gimmelfarb on May 27, 2014, 12:05:58 AM it seems to me that it is more likely that bitstamp is being pressured by the US government or other authorities as a result of the Silk Road case and other black market/money laundering issues. i don't see enough evidence that they are insolvent.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 27, 2014, 12:12:34 AM I'd say Bitstamp going down (insolvency, government shut-down, etc) would be pretty bad for the price of bitcoin, short term (months or maybe a year). A lot of services use them, and they are the most well known exchange. But it would not kill BTC by any means. It would cause a loss of trust in other exchanges, though. We are already hitting that point as it is, with all the scams and "hacks" going around. One more major one like this could be detrimental to the morale. Sure, that's why I think months or maybe a year. Inevitably as more trustworthy and regulated businesses/exchanges come about, people's level of comfort will improve as well. We keep hoping that more trustworthy businesses will come about, but what have we been historically seeing? Most businesses end up tanking due to the owners getting that "I'm rich now and I can run away" feeling. I don't see this changing anytime soon. This would also help push regulators into a worse frenzy, where they can use it as yet another example as to why people should avoid cryptos like the plague. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Gimmelfarb on May 27, 2014, 01:19:03 AM I'd say Bitstamp going down (insolvency, government shut-down, etc) would be pretty bad for the price of bitcoin, short term (months or maybe a year). A lot of services use them, and they are the most well known exchange. But it would not kill BTC by any means. It would cause a loss of trust in other exchanges, though. We are already hitting that point as it is, with all the scams and "hacks" going around. One more major one like this could be detrimental to the morale. Sure, that's why I think months or maybe a year. Inevitably as more trustworthy and regulated businesses/exchanges come about, people's level of comfort will improve as well. We keep hoping that more trustworthy businesses will come about, but what have we been historically seeing? Most businesses end up tanking due to the owners getting that "I'm rich now and I can run away" feeling. I don't see this changing anytime soon. This would also help push regulators into a worse frenzy, where they can use it as yet another example as to why people should avoid cryptos like the plague. do you think that will happen with coinbase? or secondmarket? i feel like those are more well-regulated, open and respectable. if we see a professional exchange out of new york or something and it's back by a lot of money, perhaps backed by a big name, licensed to the teeth, and with a professional interface, it could be pretty big news for bitcoiners. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 27, 2014, 01:24:21 AM I'd say Bitstamp going down (insolvency, government shut-down, etc) would be pretty bad for the price of bitcoin, short term (months or maybe a year). A lot of services use them, and they are the most well known exchange. But it would not kill BTC by any means. It would cause a loss of trust in other exchanges, though. We are already hitting that point as it is, with all the scams and "hacks" going around. One more major one like this could be detrimental to the morale. Sure, that's why I think months or maybe a year. Inevitably as more trustworthy and regulated businesses/exchanges come about, people's level of comfort will improve as well. We keep hoping that more trustworthy businesses will come about, but what have we been historically seeing? Most businesses end up tanking due to the owners getting that "I'm rich now and I can run away" feeling. I don't see this changing anytime soon. This would also help push regulators into a worse frenzy, where they can use it as yet another example as to why people should avoid cryptos like the plague. do you think that will happen with coinbase? or secondmarket? i feel like those are more well-regulated, open and respectable. if we see a professional exchange out of new york or something and it's back by a lot of money, perhaps backed by a big name, licensed to the teeth, and with a professional interface, it could be pretty big news for bitcoiners. It's really hard to say. People already hate Coinbase because of their false flagging accounts as being "high risk" and things like that. Not to mention it can take 24+ hours to get a Bitcoin payment out of their wallet. Circle, should they prove to be legitimate, may change this, but people are even wary of them due to what we've had to deal with in the past. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Gimmelfarb on May 27, 2014, 01:45:50 AM ahh that's right -- circle. i do hope that goes well and that they are able to have a product that at least competes with coinbase to help form a stronger and more competitive market. it's true though, the exchange situation is frankly scary.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 27, 2014, 04:24:44 AM ahh that's right -- circle. i do hope that goes well and that they are able to have a product that at least competes with coinbase to help form a stronger and more competitive market. it's true though, the exchange situation is frankly scary. I do have my doubts about Circle as well. I'm really hoping they pull through with their promises, but to be completely honest... if they do I'll be surprised. If, and it's a big if, that happens, I think it could completely change the game when it comes to exchanges and buying/selling coins. Then the next step will be changing the way the real exchanges (for coin<->coin transfers) work. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: lyth0s on May 27, 2014, 04:41:28 AM ahh that's right -- circle. i do hope that goes well and that they are able to have a product that at least competes with coinbase to help form a stronger and more competitive market. it's true though, the exchange situation is frankly scary. I do have my doubts about Circle as well. I'm really hoping they pull through with their promises, but to be completely honest... if they do I'll be surprised. If, and it's a big if, that happens, I think it could completely change the game when it comes to exchanges and buying/selling coins. Then the next step will be changing the way the real exchanges (for coin<->coin transfers) work. Well a problem with places like Coinbase and Circle that was pointed out to me by DeathAndTaxes is that they could vary well become a fractional reserve for bitcoin quite easily, which scares me. Especially with Circle's whole ideology of showing the dollar value in emphasis and a small font and lighter color for bitcoin might mean that they plan on transfering dollar amounts instead of actual bitcoin sometime in the future. Can't you see coinbase and circle teaming up to allow money transfers between them both and at some point "loaning" bitcoin to a company or a user without their knowledge of it? As far as the whole FinCEN goes I don't remember any other company ever wanting a photo with you standing in it with your passport in one hand and a bank statement in the other hand, as well as accounting for where all your coins came from. However, It is promising that other users ahve withdrawn bitcoin and fiat recently without any issues. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: YipYip on May 27, 2014, 05:24:31 AM I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this: This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term. Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered ;D Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Nicolas Dorier on May 27, 2014, 10:03:37 AM I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this: This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term. Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered ;D What reason I have to trade with large banks (or exchange) my BTC and bother with their process ? In the smaller exchanges, there is no 5% fees, I might be stolen, so I just adjust the line of credit I gave them, it is totally worth my time. Big exchanges can continue to play like the big banks, but if BTC goes really big, the rules have changed, and they can't count on the gov to higher barriers of entry to save them... because Bitcoin is international. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: davidgdg on May 27, 2014, 10:37:13 AM Found this today, seems although Bitstamp is making it EXTREMELY difficulty to withdraw both BTC and Fiat currency. Seems like a Mt. Gox 2.0 problem. If they end up being insolvent do you guys think BTC price will increase (due to realized less supply of coins) or go down due to bad media coverage plus people trying to recoup some of their losses? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26apno/bitstamp_will_not_process_withdrawal_unless_you/ Quote We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image of both pages of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire: 1. How did you learn about Bitcoin? 2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account. 3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment. 4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange? 5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future? 6. Which bank do you intend to use? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code. 7. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)? We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket. OK fine, here are the details and my passport (already verified with driver's license and had swift code already entered). They required that I prove where the coins came from that I sold. I provided the receipt from the exchange. Here is what they came back with. Thank you for your reply. Please note that the provided information is for only 5 BTC while you have deposited to and sold on Bitstamp more than xxx bitcoins. We kindly ask you to send us a signed message of your personal, most used wallet so we can establish the veracity of your statements. some people may bring about their recent "proof of solvency" of Bitstamp by firestartr.co (whoever the hell that is). It is just a statement though, no blockchain proof. And the PDF is even broken on my PC https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/Firestartr_DD_Letter_for_Bitstamp.pdf If they are insolvent, the price would go down first (as we've seen with Gox) and then would go back up after. I will say that it would hurt the morale more than it already has, though, in that people are starting to lose trust already. Is this only for BTC sellers? The letter seems specifically directed at sellers rather than buyers. Have any buyers received a similar letter? After making a recent dollar deposit, I received today a similar message, but with slightly different questions in a different order. I answered promptly with brief one line answers. I look forward to seeing how efficiently the process runs. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: alani123 on May 27, 2014, 10:42:16 AM Money laundering laws are really strict in the USA. This doesn't mean insolvency. I'Surely; bitstamp doesn't want the ifc to freeze their bank accounts. They have to comply with regulation in advance. And if you ask me, I'm sure btc-e doesn't like regulation as well but it's not the same. They are not US based.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: efreeti on May 27, 2014, 11:29:07 AM Complying with money laundry law is not the same as insolvent.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: davidgdg on May 27, 2014, 01:04:22 PM Found this today, seems although Bitstamp is making it EXTREMELY difficulty to withdraw both BTC and Fiat currency. Seems like a Mt. Gox 2.0 problem. If they end up being insolvent do you guys think BTC price will increase (due to realized less supply of coins) or go down due to bad media coverage plus people trying to recoup some of their losses? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26apno/bitstamp_will_not_process_withdrawal_unless_you/ Quote We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image of both pages of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire: 1. How did you learn about Bitcoin? 2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account. 3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment. 4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange? 5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future? 6. Which bank do you intend to use? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code. 7. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)? We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket. OK fine, here are the details and my passport (already verified with driver's license and had swift code already entered). They required that I prove where the coins came from that I sold. I provided the receipt from the exchange. Here is what they came back with. Thank you for your reply. Please note that the provided information is for only 5 BTC while you have deposited to and sold on Bitstamp more than xxx bitcoins. We kindly ask you to send us a signed message of your personal, most used wallet so we can establish the veracity of your statements. some people may bring about their recent "proof of solvency" of Bitstamp by firestartr.co (whoever the hell that is). It is just a statement though, no blockchain proof. And the PDF is even broken on my PC https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/Firestartr_DD_Letter_for_Bitstamp.pdf If they are insolvent, the price would go down first (as we've seen with Gox) and then would go back up after. I will say that it would hurt the morale more than it already has, though, in that people are starting to lose trust already. Is this only for BTC sellers? The letter seems specifically directed at sellers rather than buyers. Have any buyers received a similar letter? After making a recent dollar deposit, I received today a similar message, but with slightly different questions in a different order. I answered promptly with brief one line answers. I look forward to seeing how efficiently the process runs. I agree the questions are overly intrusive but the approval was super-quick: KYC request made at 09.42 today Answers provided by me at 10.30 today KYC clearance given at 12.12 today Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: ranlo on May 28, 2014, 03:07:44 AM ahh that's right -- circle. i do hope that goes well and that they are able to have a product that at least competes with coinbase to help form a stronger and more competitive market. it's true though, the exchange situation is frankly scary. I do have my doubts about Circle as well. I'm really hoping they pull through with their promises, but to be completely honest... if they do I'll be surprised. If, and it's a big if, that happens, I think it could completely change the game when it comes to exchanges and buying/selling coins. Then the next step will be changing the way the real exchanges (for coin<->coin transfers) work. Well a problem with places like Coinbase and Circle that was pointed out to me by DeathAndTaxes is that they could vary well become a fractional reserve for bitcoin quite easily, which scares me. Especially with Circle's whole ideology of showing the dollar value in emphasis and a small font and lighter color for bitcoin might mean that they plan on transfering dollar amounts instead of actual bitcoin sometime in the future. Can't you see coinbase and circle teaming up to allow money transfers between them both and at some point "loaning" bitcoin to a company or a user without their knowledge of it? As far as the whole FinCEN goes I don't remember any other company ever wanting a photo with you standing in it with your passport in one hand and a bank statement in the other hand, as well as accounting for where all your coins came from. However, It is promising that other users ahve withdrawn bitcoin and fiat recently without any issues. Any exchange (or, both of these are just "intermediates" I think) can be a fractional reserve, even if they aren't doing anything that would warrant it. So I think fearing this is a little meaningless, since at the end of the day we have no idea who is holding the coins they claim they are unless they offer that transparency. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: onlyu on May 28, 2014, 04:42:23 AM People still able to withdraw once they comply with kyc.
Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: lyth0s on May 28, 2014, 06:37:29 AM I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this: This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term. Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered ;D When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Gimmelfarb on May 28, 2014, 07:07:03 AM When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will. LOL. yeah there is no doubt that bitstamp has developed some very bizarre ideas about how to comply with AML/KYC regulations. i get it -- they are trying -- but it does appear that some of their methods are a bit...out of the ordinary. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: davidgdg on May 30, 2014, 02:08:11 PM I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this: This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term. Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered ;D When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will. You've obviously never done business in the EU. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: Fippy on May 30, 2014, 05:38:36 PM I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this: This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term. Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered ;D When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will. They don't have to. The financial industry shares so much information about account holders amongst themselves that a bank halfway around the world that you never even heard of knows more about your financial history that you yourself probably know. That system and way of doing business has been in place for so long it is second nature, borderline hivemind, collected about you since the day you first had an account anywhere in your name. Bitcoin exchanges are newcomers to this arena and way of doing things, and have to 'start fresh', so to speak. Hence the invasive seeming questions. Title: Re: Anyone Think Bitstamp is Insolvent? Possible BTC Price Drop Incoming? Post by: BitchicksHusband on May 30, 2014, 07:55:06 PM I mostly lurk, rarely post, but as someone who has been involved in the KYC compliance changes for one of the worlds largest financial institutions, I'd just like to say this: This is quite literally textbook FinCEN foundation, and I would actually take this to be a good sign. It means that Stamp is taking the necessary steps (including a fair bit of 'catch-up') to be in compliance with US money laundering regulations that would place it on the same level of credibility as an international bank. Personally, while it might be a bit of a chore at the outset, I consider this a very good sign long-term. Thanks as a 15 year veteran of Commercial Banking & finance sector ...Its is a totally bullish sign and i will say it again Answer the fucking KYC or go launder your drug money and terrorist funding on btc-e for a 5% fee This is standard practice for Large banks & funding of sums over 10k How you nut jobs connect this totall awesome behaviour with stamp being insolvent is mind boggling Just like whores gotta smoke crack... big banks need their kyc/AML questions answered ;D When has the government ever asked you to take a picture of yourself with your bank statement and passport/photo ID in hand? I'd really like to know where this is a "standard of practice" if you will. Many banks photocopy your ID and if you try to deposit a large amount of cash, they require you to have documentation of its origin. One old man that stuffed his mattress for years was unable to put it in the bank. |