Bitcoin Forum

https://github.com/blockerupter

We start this project to improve the design of Bitcoin mining devices powered by ASICMiner chips. It also aims to tackle the technical challenges of Bitcoin mining in general. We hope that with the help of the community we can keep the project active and successful.

The initial submissions consist of our own reference designs for BE200 chips. They contain hardware, firmware and software, and we had them produced and tested. They can be directly used for mass production. Contributions in forms of patches, forks and brand new designs, are all welcome.

We would like to see the project evolve and attract more and more able engineers. Thus we are in preparation of rewarding contributors and would like to be the sponsor of the future core developer team in the long term.

Notes

1) We would like to let the project run by contributors. Please mail to jason@bitquan.com to discuss details of pull requests. And if you would like to help us by being our project manager who could maintain both this thread and github repos, please also apply by mailing to jason@bitquan.com so that we could give you payments covering your time and opportunity cost.

2) Our support for contributors besides direct reward are twofold. First, we offer sample chips to the contributors. Second, we are able to manufacture sample boards and system according to the contributors' designs. The average time of making PCB is three working days, while SMT takes only one working day.

3) We offer Bitcoin rewards to contributors who submit significant improvements or new designs. And when the de-facto core developer team emerges, we make it official in the form of continuing salary.

4) The next gen chips, BE300, are likely to be compatible with BE200 with respect to pinouts and package. Therefore all efforts on BE200 based designs are always useful in the long term.

perhaps Bitcoin foundation should chip in as well?  and there's always that pile the forum has.  maybe put 1% towards this project? but I know, it's a sore subject for many.

why?  well, this is rock solid.  chip is available and folks behind it deliver, it's not a from scratch project.

Great news!  Looking forward to AM domination!

Those 32 chip boards sound tasty... mmmm... 

Anyone interested in designing a Cube Block Erupter retro-fit?

now we're talking!!!  there's a large market for this and the earlier blades too, since the power boards are out there.
if people could buy replacement blades for either platform, they would.  and if they could replace one at a time that would be phenomenal as well.

It would also be more environmentally friendly to re-use parts we already have! :)

AM creating the future of bitcoin by inventing it.....

Novello Technologies should put some thought into this and show the community that they actually do have great ideas.

Only spent a few minutes searching but are sample chips or small batches able to be purchased yet to start playing with eventually?

Following.

The WASP team will be glad to add to this list when we have completed our other board first.

Update
1) We would like to let the project run by contributors. Please mail to jason@bitquan.com to discuss details of pull requests. And if you would like to help us by being our project manager who could maintain both this thread and github repos, please also apply by mailing to jason@bitquan.com so that we could give you payments covering your time and opportunity cost.

2) Our support for contributors besides direct reward are twofold. First, we offer sample chips to the contributors. Second, we are able to manufacture sample boards and system according to the contributors' designs. The average time of making PCB is three working days, while SMT takes only one working day.

3) We offer Bitcoin rewards to contributors who submit significant improvements or new designs. And when the de-facto core developer team emerges, we make it official in the form of continuing salary.

4) The next gen chips, BE300, are likely to be compatible with BE200 with respect to pinouts and package. Therefore all efforts on BE200 based designs are always useful in the long term.

Let's give this some more exposure on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/27jtgj/want_to_work_for_asicminer_it_can_happen_up_to_you/

We can put some equipment for generating hydro electricity. Instead of storing electricity generated, we can connect it directly to the Block Erupter. Fixing a switch will help to change the electricity source in an easier way. So the miners can save some electricity costs. The utmost thing is, Block Erupter mustn't be a big one. It sounds like stupid but if you do this you can have a better sales and miners can get more profit!
You can see this site for making it. (http://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/04/simple-project-on-hydro-electric-power.html)
You can fix a small 1 litre storage. I hope you will look forward about this.
Kindly,
       Muhammed Zakhir

Hmmm... I always though electricity generators (hydro, coal, nuke, gas, solar etc...) are the ultimate miners.  Right on site.  Cheapest electricity.  And they can reinvent themselves for future by supporting Bitcoin network.

was just an observation, not adding this to the project.  focus of the stated project remains as is :)

Okay! Just expressed my ideas!  :)
Kindly,
        Muhammed Zakhir

Any chance the chips might be open source too? ;)

Hehehehehehe....

Generosity does know bounds. Good try though.

Yes. But there are no written plans in the near term yet.

Also it's much harder than making a piece of software open source, because the whole flow to generate GDS has tons of manual operations and very fab and technology node specific.

Please don't do this in the near future :D
On a serious note: I'm curious, though, how would this profit AM?

Whenever open-source or not doesn't make difference in AM profits, both immediate and potential, we will do.

Why not? Open source mining chips benefit the community the best, I think? Or am I missing something?

Miner is an investor in AsicMiner, by open sourcing chips wouldn't that give advantage to the competition? I assume this is why he is saying. "don't do this." you are revealing your hand to your opponents I would assume.

Yes, if they completely open-sourced the chip, practically everyone (who can afford a $1.3m mask set) would be able to produce their chips. Hence, AM could get serious problems selling their chips - large customers could just produce them themselves. AM and its investors would be screwed.
After selling the chip isn't profitable anymore or only self-mining is being done, and assuming the chip doesn't contain too much trade-secrets for gen 4, I think it's a nice thing to release the blueprints.

Dump the old on the public keep the new for the AM shareholders. Just have to time that right so you don't get caught with your pants down so to speak. That might have worked in the 1st and 2nd Gen stuff but with other players and chips in the market it the demand is going to go to the cheapest price chip / board combo. Fun times indeed.

This would be an amazing thing.  I would like to re-use the cubes since they fit together and stack nicely. 

Slightly related to this, is there perhaps the possibility of open sourcing some or all of the Cube's information?
It would be nice for someone to try to debug the TCP stack and figure out how to make it work correctly ;)

Well, AM is a company after all, why should they just now give away their assets for free? Open sourcing the designs at a later point might be considered a mere nice gesture, IMO...

Agreed. Just pointing out the fact that "open" source doesn't always mean altruism.

Where is intron and cscape..... they should be all over this :)

Working on other stuff now...;)

We had AM_BE200_X24 boards sampled and tested. We also sampled the compatible heatsinks and supporting structures for them. It hashes at 768GH (each board 192GH) with 0.85-0.92W/G (PSU loss excluded). Power draws on higher/lower hashrate with higher/lower voltage is under testing. The design files of heatsinks/structures are going to be released a little later.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2zr14wy.jpg

It should be emphasized that QUAD and X32 are also sampled and well tested before X24.

My god it's beautiful.

Where do we buy them??

Also how many chips @ 192gh?

You can purchase chips and make this devices of your own.

You can also buy from our customers who are going to produce according to this open source X24 design.

Each board has 24 chips and hashes at 192gh at this setting. So the total is 192*4=768gh. The hash speed
can be got higher or lower according to your voltage.

The power draw is looking good!

It's not the cube.

When we release source of BE100 based cubes there might be some contributors who can do BE200 based cubes for us.

Bicknellski,

I am wandering what happened to your plans to include BE200 In your WASP project?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641957.msg7175102#msg7175102

Thank You
PS: I will appreciate very much if we stay on topic and you leave the usual off topic if you ever answer me.

Once again Thank you very Much

Maybe you should point out in the original post that the whole miner hashes at 768 GH/s and the single boards hash at 192 GH/s, each. One may be led to think that each chip only performed at 2 GH/s otherwise - which would be quite low.
Good work apart from that, it is a remarkable strategy to open up the designs and let potential customers/resellers produce their own miners. Also, the increase in communication over the last few days is very much appreciated!

Fixed. Sorry.

Amazing work, that is a beautiful product.  You should be applauded for how your efforts will help to distribute the overall network hashrate.

I would also like to second the thank you for increased communication from AM.

Next time anyone complains about GHash.io, I will link them to this project.

Seconded. Keep up the good work.

That black strip on handles, is that a friction strip for stacking?
I think you should make a batch of these. They'll sell out quickly. :)

I think the "box" design was inevitable, I just wish that Yifu hadn't effed up the whole DIY/open source ideas from awhile back:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179769.msg2476058#msg2476058

Looks familiar...  ;)

That was my first thought; second thought was that I think I'd be clamping them together as well, just in case.

My favorite DIY design was from tosku
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223680.msg2362815#msg2362815
that looks familiar  ;)

Yep!  Maybe those bars should be modified to include a stackable mechanism beyond friction strips

That is a sexy looking rig for the right price.

Who do we contact to purchase reels of chips from ASICMiner? My company may be interested in this.

Depends on the quantity. If you order enough, just contact friedcat directly (PM or fnnirvana@gmail.com I guess). Channels for smaller quantities don't seem to be established as of now. At least not apart from obscure Chinese marketplaces. Also go and try ask for sample chips!

nice, watching  ;D

 :D

This is exciting, great to see homegrown AM hardware.

I'd love it if you'd do that ASAP..

First company to sell these for a decent price (~$1/gh) gets my money.

We have a significant number of similar products coming in by the end of the month, right around the $1/gh

I believe that jimmothy will only want a miner that's powered with AM BE 200 chips  :D

We need a manufacturer who has enough money to afford a large enough order directly with AM. We could always default to the good ol' chips group buy done by a reputable member who'll then forward the chips to a (again, reputable) manufacturer. That's going to cut the price and lower all margins.

rxbox?

The CAD of the mechanical design for X24 has been put in the repo:

https://github.com/blockerupter/AM_Tube

Concept picture:

http://i57.tinypic.com/2hwkw2p.png

Suggestions, modifications and brand new designs are all welcome.

Beautiful design friedcat. Beautiful.

I would interconnect the four board's power requirements into a single pair of PCIe connections.

I would injection mould or extrude a plastic clip to interlock the handles so they can be assembled into a matrix.

Would they use these chips if they can get something more powerful same price or lower? Just asking? Would they want to make something that required all that aluminum? Even Marto isn't selling boards now with all his new designs... guess chips cost too much to make a profit compared to Bitmain offerings. Guess that small fabricator is going out of business as well.

Yes led Boy ;D
Why?
1. Because not everyone get same prices
2. Because not every one are licking manufacturer asses
3. Because it is a market and if someone get X price for Y chip it may turn out that other one can get 5X price for same Y chip. And magic Y chip which supposed to be the cheapest one suddenly becomes the expensive one of them all

Get ready for Christmas boy. Led tree market is raising ;D
Greets Bick ;)

I dunno... Current design leaves power flexible... You can repurpose all kinds of older/cheaper PSUs
AND when next gen chip is out, you could upgrade one board at a time too instead of replacing whole device if power is interconnected

Seen. Edit I would put a provision in to interconnect the four board's power requirements into a single pair of PCIe connections. The idea is to eliminate the requirement to purchase splitters or adapters for larger PSU's to power the system which could be viewed as a negative.

There are many of us that have acquired pretty substantial power supplies due to previous system inefficiencies. I would also look at something that can take advantage of connecting to the abundance of used server supplies available out there. If you can demonstrate a cost savings for the entire system through intelligent design and save the customers in areas that won't effect your own bottom line it's a more attractive product at the cost of thinking the full implementation through.

The ability to nest miners with relatively inexpensive clips also becomes a savings in not requiring racks to form a stable rig set up. It also predisposes people to continue to buy the same product since it can be added to in a modular manner.

AM Lego. ;D

I assume this system is designed to have a host controller like a Raspberry Pi. I would anticipate busses to be able to interconnect as well again reducing the number of lines to the system.

I think because of the plethora of different PSUs out there, it's most economical to just use longer pci-e 6/8 pin cables to connect to source PSUs and modify/vut solder as needed. breakout boards for dell/hp/ibm servers come to mind...

yes, a host controller can be a computer, a Pi or an x24-specific microcontroller (perhaps will be released here too), 32 boards can be linked together (8 devices) the controller connects to one board, rest are cascaded (serial connection).

Of course not if it is cheaper and equally or more efficient. But if it is the same price they would probably still go with AM simply due to the fact that FC delivers.


Where exactly do you see "all that aluminum"? I just downloaded the cad files and it looks like it uses only 0.64 0.32 lbs of aluminum (excluding heatsinks).

Also it uses a single 120mm fan for cooling. I don't know if it gets better than that. Maybe a single 180mm fan would be better although there is a much better selection on 120-140mm fans.

Heat sinks and the volume they take up is the issue here not weight. That is valuable real estate in a DC and even in a small node at home. Why did AM build themselves a modern high density cooling solution?

They already built the future. This offering is not it.

This is what the industry wants, maybe this is not what the home user wants it, but this is how the game is going to be played:

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/PFC4L1FE/download_zps43cf6336.jpg

Led Boy,
Just to remember you the thread is:
The Open Source Block Erupter Project. So if you ever build something apart of bilking leds you can do whatever you want. As you see AM wants to sell chips. AM is giving us the option to do two things:
1. Use his design and start from there he offered even assembly service
2. To build our own how we like it - chip docs and protocol spec PCB, bom and everything is available

So get back to work Led boy. If you do not like what AM is providing you here just design and build it. Is that the goal of your WASP balloon or what?
But WASP boards waiting list is so long and you are too busy posting noncecnce everywhere so it is not gonna happen soon. Correct?
If you wanna stay on topic just take a look at github there is a loot room for improvement especially the LED PART ;D

Not sure I completely agree with that. Immersion cooling is definitely the future but it is quite a ways off before it becomes economically viable for most DCs let alone most homes.

I predict that a very efficiently deployed immersion setup would cost ~$150/kw. For those with cheap electricity, it would still make sense to go with air cooling. For example if you had an an efficient setup ($150/kw) and $0.05/kwh electricity you would be saving ~1/3rd on electricity so ~$0.016/kwh or about 1 year to break even.

You simply have to admit that for the average home miner and air cooled DCs with cheap electricity, this is quite an attractive machine.

Side note: I am 99% sure that AM has already made a high density immersion solution and I'm sure they will give it to anyone who asks (not positive about that last part)

The average miner shouldn't be investing in mining given the numbers currently. Plenty of people have posted the numbers already I don't see how small scale is going to cut the mustard. These things are architecturally interesting but in terms of what is in the market already for air cooled it is on the wrong end of the curve price and design wise given the modularity data center air cooled versions already out. Density, density and density. If you have to stack 10 of these to get comparable hash rate from something a lot smaller I can't see the benefits no matter how pretty it looks. What I am talking about here is an alternative to this configuration. The cube is great style wise but again it is going to take up a lot of space where a flat plane configuration would be more ergonomic. Again it is a numbers game. If you can get the chips for pennies and the PCB's done up en masse sure ok... but that better be ready this month or next before the difficulty and other fabricators drop their offerings.

If it were profitable for Asicminer to build them they would.

In other words: The heatsink is the case.
Well thought out - should bring down deployment costs.

Regarding air vs. immersion cooling.
Immersion cooling is still a job for the professionals. If I understand the open source nature of the new block erupter correctly, the air-version is supposed to be a DYI kit for the little guys.

Speaking of immersion cooling, this thread wouldn't be complete without the design guidelines for the 240kW tanks:

https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0ByWHHc0u_thNdzB3c2hvVzJkcTQ

Here are some more files:
https://drive.google.com/a/allied-control.com/folderview?id=0ByWHHc0u_thNT293cTl6OXBVZms&usp=drivesdk#

Here some AM history:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y9VuonliG5s/U5lFdp3XltI/AAAAAAAAgtw/8YQ_MfFFqxQ/s800/blades.jpg

AM is not stopping their immersion development. So anyone building the cubes will be in direct competition with the DataTank boards likely with the BE300 chips or the next gen they might have on the drawing board after that. Gotta keep this in perspective if AM is going to produce 100s of PH/s worth of chips or more a significant amount is going into data tanks via that single wide or double wide immersion blade. Welcome to the end home miners.

And by the way... there is an air cooled version not unlike the spondoolies SP10 / SP30 configuration have a look in the link above. Enjoy your cubes. Not sure if you can get the chips on a board configuration that narrow given the power going through the copper for air cooling but I bet someone thinks you can do it and have an air / novec cooled boards in the same exact configuration.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/PFC4L1FE/aircooling_zps6f0f32c3.png

I disagree. There are plenty of people with cheap electricity. You don't need a giant mine to make a profit. You simply need a good $/gh.


What on the market is more modular? Cubes are about as modular as it gets. Not to mention it can be disassembled in to blades.


I also disagree. These are almost certainly profitable for AM to sell. Hashratios production cost is less than $0.8/gh for a much less cost effective miner (bulky case + extra fans and heatsinks).

I would guess AM could produce these for around $0.5/gh which is on par with spondoolies sp30 BOM.

At $0.5 or even $0.8 there is plenty of room for profit considering the market rate is ~$1.3-$2/gh.

Problem is this would take tons of capital AM doesn't have. And it would create a situation where AM is directly competing with its partners/customers.

I think it is better for AM to focus on providing the chips and let the chip integrators battle it out.

Your estimations are based on what?

Given what numbers are available most smaller miners need to be moving out of Sha256. You can hope and dream these units will be cheap but no one is going to make them if they know it is going come back and bite them when they can't sell them at the price they need to. Given that there are only just a few of those those smaller board makers left who would target the remaining and ever dwindling small miner market I don't see them taking on this risk unless it is a Chinese based fabricator and even then doesn't look too promising.

If you got the numbers let us see it. Put up a spreadsheet and show us where these will make money for the fabricator and the miners. Please I would love to see your projections and do not forget to add all the costs in for the end users please. The numbers we have run do not look too promising even at greatly reduced price for BE200 or 300 chips.

Here is my ROI estimations (starts in 3 difficulty jumps)

http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=11756551917&dcosts=750&diff_mincrease=15&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=750000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=650.80&dpowcon=750&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.05&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=3&action=calc

This assumes miners are being sold for $1/gh. With production costs at less than $0.8/gh there is clearly profit for the manufacturer.


What are your estimations based on? What numbers are available? Where are small miners moving to from sha256?

I don't see a dwindling small miner market at all. Almost every manufacturer has a small miner for sale.


I think you are also assuming that there is some next gen chips that will blow these miners out of the water which will likely not be the case for a few months (5-7 months I would guess).

I am talking about PCB costs, chip costs etc... you can't throw out difficulty projections and estimates of final miner costs and think that is the spreadsheet I am thinking of right? You need to do some due diligence. Time labour etc... just to get this all set up. Where will you source parts? Which PCB fab? Etc. Fabbed where? Shipped where? PSUs? etc etc.

There has be a factor for profit you will need before jumping in on this. Look at the nightmares already out there. Who you gonna call? And I do mean this seriously? Who?

It is all well and good to project the rosy numbers but in reality there are fewer and fewer people willing to build this sort of thing because it just isn't worth the effort especially when there are currently working designs that will probably beat this design with the next chip generation in much more datacenter friendly configuration that uses the same chips. Again seems like a lot of aluminum.

There are already chips in design that will be out in August. I think your 5 - 7 month window is a bit myopic. Anyhow great you are big on the design. I hope it works out. I have serious reservations given the chip and the price of these units when you factor in everything. I will let you guys get back to working out who will fab out these designs up for you. Thanks for listening.

I don't have to worry about all that. Whoever want's to sell these can find a fab.

Hashratios production cost on their bulky miner is less than $0.8/gh. Those are some real numbers.

Spondoolies material costs alone are $0.5/gh for the sp30. Also some real numbers.

If hashratio would simply switch to this more cost effective design I would guess they could eventually get production costs down to ~$0.7/gh.



That's just your opinion.

Where are some numbers to back your opinion?


Which chips do you speak of?

I think the biggest competition will be bitfury and bitmain and I don't think those chips are due for a while. Maybe avalon too if they stop the exorbitant chip pricing.

Done our numbers and we are not building a cube.

Remember you are promoting this unit so the burden is on you to prove it not me. All I am saying is good luck nothing more or nothing less. Having a design doesn't mean it will be priced right. Lots of work needs to go into that if you want to make it profitable for the fabricator. That is where all your optimistic projections hit reality. What is the bottomline price. If it is too high then no one is going to buy it. Have a look around plenty of examples of that happening right now with very similar designs. Be careful and good luck.

Let's see your numbers.

I don't need to prove anything as you are the one who is making such claims.

Anyone can tell that this miner would cost less to produce than hashratios $0.8/gh machines.


You mean like the rockminer rxbox which are being sold for around $1/gh?

Join the WPC and you can see all the numbers you want. Not my numbers to give. Again you are trying to sell a fabricator on this not me. So sell it. If you can prove it is profit worthy someone will jump on it.

 ;D :D ;) :)

good joke Bick

Suggest you steer clear of Marto he has too many issues.

I suggest you do not write in treads about HW design, until you do something working
:P

Rockminer RXBox doesn't exist, it's still pixie dust.  It's delayed.  It's only $1/gh in your imagination.

Only one that's shipping is the RK-BOX, which is pretty much an overpriced ugly POS.

.9 BTC or $540 for 450 GH/s or over your precious $1/gh threshold and doesn't even include the power supply.

I definitely think open sourcing the hardware is a good thing. Why waste money developing standard PCBs in parallel when that can be concentrated on developing more efficient chips?

Friedcat,

Regarding the design for the new cube, will each boards of the cube require a power supply and Ethernet connection? Will the cubes need a stratum proxy to operate like your previous builds or are you updating the mining software?

it's up to the community to design this... fc released info needed for someone to jump in and start designing.  (the Cube specs to be released, will help simply create replacement blades in exciting cubes if it's designed by the community in this manner)

Thanks Canary!

I take it that you'll be an official distributor when a product is finalized?

Rxbox does in fact exist and it is not only around $1/gh in my imagination.

0.9btc is only $520 + $10 for a psu = $530 for up to 480gh/s or $1.1/gh.

Even less with preferential pricing.

No it doesn't.  Rxbox was just a render.  It does not exist, yet.  From the horse's mouth:


Dam, you're always off or wrong with everything...

Does delayed = nonexistent?

Is hardware from rockminer not being sold for $1.1/gh?

Exactly.  No miner yet, just renders, cad drawings.

At least there's a physical picture of the RK-box, and Minersource is set to sell them July.

RXbox is anyone's guess still, no physical proof.

You don't know whether they have a working prototype or not.

Rockminer has working HW. And they are selling it for around $1.1/gh.

If $1.1/gh is overpriced, I'd love to know what you consider a good deal.

We'll see about Rxbox, for now anything involving that particular miner is pure speculation.

Rk-box is bulky, inefficient, noisy, full of wires everywhere, heavy and doesn't come with a power supply.  Not sure if it comes with a Pi either.

We shall see about "Rocket Box" when it finally launches, if it's up to spec and worth the price.

Just noticed that anyone who ordered an rxbox will receive extra hashrate after switching for rkboxes.

Looks like they paid ~$0.9/gh including psu and rpi.($0.83/gh at 480gh/s per)

For power supply: we are going to open source the PSU adapter for 4*2*6pin power sockets.

For ethernet: we are going to open source the ethernect controller based on microchip PIC-32 MCU with a built-in stratum proxy. Each controller can drive as many as 32 boards (8 devices). Remember that since the boards are chained in a string instead of connected to the controller separately, raspberry-pi or PC with limited IO ports would also do the job.

Friedcat, any news regarding overclocking/undervolting?

300MHz at 0.78V works fine (need to change the 3kOhm resistors on BOM list to 3.6kOhm resistors).

Undervolting on this design is not effective as expected because as voltage gets down the efficiency of TPS53355 also decreases. Changing to a more dedicated DC/DC solution for lower voltage is recommended.

Thank you for the update Friedcat!

I want one of these so badly. 
Great design.  It must regulate the temp well.
How does the bottom one and top one stay cool?  Is the amount of air being moved enough to prevent hot spots?
Great work!!

Why would there be hotspots on the top and bottom?

The top as more heat would collect up there and possibly the bottom as it does not get the airflow the other three sides do?

Heat rises due to convection.  What if you just turned in 90 degrees with the fan on the bottom to push air up?  That way, the fan assists the natural flow of heated air upward.

I think convection should be neglegable with good airflow.

Looks to me like each board has the same heatsinks and airflow.

It is definitely directed in an efficient manner from the looks of it over the heatsinks.
I wonder is the fan pushes or pulls the air over them?
I know it some cases like the SP-10 Dawson having the fans pull helps for a more even cooling.
This miner is very elegant in it's design I am impressed I cannot wait to get one or more. 
Great work Friedcat.

Don't forget,as you create a "suction",pulling air through instead of pushing it thru,you get a pressure decrease which also reduces temp.Very little,but the principle is there  ;)

Exactly.  I hope this unit does that.  It looks to be built in such a way that it would benefit from pulling the air through.

Hi friedcat,

Is there open source cgminer driver? Or some other driver code could be referenced?

Here is the X24 blade immersed.

http://vimeo.com/98321051

http://i58.tinypic.com/2e3y3ao.jpg

Which leaves me with the impression the X24 is additionaly the weapon of choice for AM mining and franchising.

It's a reference design as far as I know. It's not originally made for immersion.

so a DataTank holds 50 of x24s? 24*10Gh*50= ~12000-13200 Gh/s or 12-13.2 Th/s if my math is right?
this needs 10200-11880 Watts of power?  (100 amps? @120V)
how much is a DataTank? when is it available for purchase etc...?

What I posted is one of many immersion tests to test various configurations/speed settings on different boards (not only X24).
The X24 blades have no relation to DataTank, they are with air cooling, with ATX power connectors and fans (all of which is not required for immersion).



DataTank:
Your math is off. Here are the design guidelines for DataTank (PDF):
https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0ByWHHc0u_thNdzB3c2hvVzJkcTQ

The current understanding is that DataTanks cannot be purchased independently. Rather, they are in groups of six per shipping container. Based off of this document (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByWHHc0u_thNWUpOQTJjTUp1NGM/edit) (on pg 9-10), here are the supposed specifications:

Example 2.4PH 1.2MW Mining Container (ASICMiner Gen3)

● 6 tanks per container, 200kW-240kW each
● 400 boards each tank, 500W per board, 2,400 boards total
● Equivalent to 600 4U boxes
● Shipping container footprint instead of 60 racks in high density facility
● 2-3PH/s at estimated hashrate (based on reports from China24)
● No thermal throttling, possible performance increase to be tested with actual hardware
● Fixed and predictable cost, no matter if fully or only partially populated

This option for high density mining will be aimed more towards franchisees, who have access to both the funds and electricity to maintain it.

From the DataTank Mining Prospectus
http://www.datatank-mining.com/files/DataTank_Mining_Ops_Prospectus.pdf

You can technically purchase as little as one unit (0.01kW) of a DataTank if you like, so no its not aimed only for big buyers.

[HAVELOCK] DataTank Mining: 1.2MW 3M Novec Immersion Cooled 2PH Mining Container
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=655464.0

Anybody working on upgrades for the original block erupter cube? Or maybe drop in cards I had seen mentioned earlier? If thats not possible can we open source all the block erupter cube and blade info. I would like for the community to have a shot at recycling them or at least underclock them a bit.

Steve

I am not an EE or fabricator but I could obtain ~6,000 chips for a GB maybe a few more if friedcat is feeling generous about this project. Since, I am not a well known member and have not yet been vetted I would accept escrow for this order and would only place it if there was enough interest.

Edit: current price would be ~$5 per chip

I just wanna comment here so i can come back and read shit i dont understand.

Friedcat,


Is hashratio an official BE200 miner manufacturer?

Thank you

More like a BE200 buyer?! ;D

great work guys

Does anyone know the minimum purchase quantity / price is for these chips?

I'd be willing to throw some decent cash in along with some partners to get some of these made...but before I get partners here excited about it, I need to know if it's even close to feasible cost-wise.

I love the designs so far so PLEASE give me a reason to pull the trigger here :)

This design is copying our design shown here: http://ntekcomputers.com/blogs/news/12885165-some-sneak-peak-photos-of-our-unique-miner-case-design-patent-pending

FriedCat, you have copied our design and made it open source??!???!!! This violates the open source licenses. Please stop offering sell miners with heatsinks designed like this immediately. We spent many months working on this design and testing it and then spent a lot more time and money to produce a lot of these heatsinks for our miners. You have pretty much copied all aspects of our design and it is really not cool of you FriedCat!

We have also filed a Provisional Patent on this design well before you have shown it in the public realm.

Nice looking miner, but the heatsink and modular design is not yours! It belongs to nTek Computers, Inc.

We did original hard work to prove that this special heatsink design is much more efficient at dissipating heat away from ASIC chips then regular heatsinks used on all the other miners on the market. It took a lot of expensive CNC prototyping and testing to prove this design with our team.

You could have just asked us! We may have been open to working with you and licensing out the patent for the design. The design (our design) was posted all over Bitcointalk.org on the first page of the mining hardware section for months so you must have seen it! Why didn't you just talk to us first?

Have you released the design files of the heatsink/structures already? Please check the email you have listed here as the projects primary contact. We have sent an email to jason@bitquan.com kindly asking that we discuss this matter ASAP!

It is really not fair that you say here, "3) We offer Bitcoin rewards to contributors who submit significant improvements or new designs." yet you have used the design we have worked very hard on. You are not rewarding developers here, but rather you are taking advantage of other developers.  :(

Looks more like this to me (IBM Dec 2012):

http://i59.tinypic.com/11ak19i.jpg

http://www.google.com/patents/US20120320524

AM:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/blockerupter/AM_Tube/master/heat_sink.png

Ehhh.  I'm not a patent attorney (thank goodness - though it would come in handy to give insight on whether dissemination of design files for a product that, if assembled and distributed, also infringes on that patent), but unless your patent (I don't suppose there's an active link to the application - uspto's not returning anything useful) is phrased like something out of Apple and you feel that it covers any loop configuration of N boards with heat sinks on the inside...

The heat sinks:  Yours are a lop-sided semi-overlapping design.  This one is a very basic trapezoid design (leaving a cavity in the center).
The assembly: Yours requires beams/rails.  This one screws together with the end plates straight into the heat sinks with the heat sinks interlocking at the edges.
The geometry: Yours requires the boards to be at an off-angle from the end plates. This one has the boards aligned with the end plates.
Housing: Yours is demonstrated to be mounted inside a case.  This one is intended to be used 'as is' with stacking options via the end plates that double as stand-offs.

Now, if you still think that should be covered, then in true Apple spirit, it would also cover the earlier June 2013 design by bitcoin49er; https://github.com/bitcoiner49er/Bitburner_Quad
( Though for all I know, you licensed your design from him? )
Heck, phrased broadly enough, you'd be covering the Mac Pro ;)

As an aside...
...that would depend entirely on 1. your patent being granted, 2. the patent covering the design, and 3. the license chosen (unfortunately the github repository has no license file).  Most 'open source' and even 'Open Source' licenses make no mention of patents at all, with the GPLv3 being an exception and its clause has a different applicability, not to mention that GPL is ill-suited to hardware anyway (TAPR OHL would be a more common choice).

I'll leave it to ntekcomputers to comment on this, but it looks like this type of modular design has been conceived before.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223680.msg2362815#msg2362815

There were a number of different "unique" ideas for a tunnel and boards mounting in a cube for the discussion on the BKKcoins Klondike designs.

We have seen the IBM patent, and we have also seen all the threads, and conceptual CAD 3D views that Bicknellski posted. They have been referenced in our patent application as prior art.

I would like to say something to clear up a topic that keeps coming up more and more that I feel is both intriguing and hugely offensive:
Other people have pointed out on this forum and through private messages to me that it should simply be expected that a cloned version of any product showing up from China is inevitable. I feel that this is an insulting and unfair stereotype. Many people have the misconception that there are slack laws in China and that it is some wild west like place. I am not trying to generalize China at all but I would be naive if I said that products do not get counterfeited all the time there. Contrary to many peoples' belief China does have courts and they are actually quite strict. When you hear stories about people being scammed, bamboozled, taken to the bank, or their product copied in China, it is usually because they were simply being lazy or just down right ignorant. When someone from outside of China has a solid contract with a legitimate company inside China and that Chinese company breaks the contract or worse the law, well that Chinese company is just as accountable for their actions as the company outside of China. It goes both ways and I do not think it is so one sided. 

Not trying to get off the subject much but I just feel like it is ridiculous to keep hearing people say "Ooh...weell...you know Its China and they steal whatever they want. What did you expect...it is China!" I know many amazingly talented people who are either from or have moved to China and none of them strike me as being part of the image that many people paint of China. In fact I have experienced some of them to have much higher ethical standards than a lot of westerners. I will even admit that when the A1 Coincraft fiasco started to occur this past February; nTek Computers invested A LOT of money into purchase a large amount of A1 chips from the first production batch. Ouch! I was very upset when all the A1 clone miners started to pop up from China for half the cost of what we were selling ours for here in the United States. It nearly destroyed our company to be honest and we are still recovering from the huge loss we took! You know what though? Those clones could have been produced anywhere else in the world with the same result so it was never a problem isolated to China. I just feel that stereotyping a whole nation of people is wrong. Each person chooses themselves to do right or wrong.

Each time an accusation of someone copying someone else's design comes up, each case is different. The fact is though that it can happen just as easily in America, the UK, Japan, Germany, Australia, etc...Does it happen more in China due to the structure of their legal system? I am not sure as I am not a lawyer either (phhheeewww). Maybe it simply happens more in China because it is the epicenter of manufacturing for the entire world. Still I am not sure and I am not trying to start a debate over this. That would be off topic for this thread but as this open source project now has come under scrutiny of using someone else's design without the right to do so; I am very interested to hear other people's opinions who also have had directly experience with this topic. Please do not blast off ridiculous claims unless you have actually real meaty facts to back them up. We do not need to add more fuel to the fire that is already burning under China when it comes to this subject.

I will follow up on the responses here as soon as I can. Right now I need to wait until I hear back from our patent law firm or I might shoot myself in the foot. I am pretty sure they will advice me to not discuss the details of our design here on the forum. I can just say that our design has evolved since the last versions we have showed publicly. Even in the original Provisional Patent application though there are many features to our design that are not being discussed here, not in the IBM patent, and not in the AM/FC design. That is all I can say right now.

Directly to FriedCat if you are out there listening, I think this project is insanely cool. Maybe I should have started with that instead of just kicking the front door in. My apologies ahead of time. Would love to hear a response from you or just get a confirmation if you still plan on using this design. I am sure everyone else would as well.

That just gave me an idea, maybe nTek Computers could somehow contribute to this project in exchange for Asicminer chips to test with on our new hardware heatsink, enclosure and special cooling design. Your all going to really love the next design! You will have to wait until it is released and in people's hands this time. Okay....Maybe we will show a sneak peak in the near future! ;-)

Keep on Hashing On!

Ry

This is total bullshit and you are of questionable character in my humble opinion.
Your whole response is a rant and an attempt to create sediment in the mind of readers that ASICMiner copied your non-invention and it's because, well you know, they're from China... Such bigotry!!

Your non-patent references prior works from these very forums you say?  Outstanding!  You are, I have no doubt, aware that USPTO issues many invalid patents.  As soon as you try to "use" your patent, there will be a motion filed to revoke/invalidate your useless, non-patent and your fight will take on a new meaning for you.

And finally, your true intent, leaching through every sentence of your uttering, is exposed at the end: You want free chips!!!  

This resembles hints of borderline extortion as you have no capacity to say I'm sorry.  Humility is a foreign, but hopefully, one day, attainable concept for you it seems.

What a ridiculous and most disingenuous attempt on your part.
Shame on you!

PS.  You deserve a warning on your trust to deal with extreme caution, or not to engage in any endeavors with you at all!

Wow man, so much fuss over a CHUNK OF ALUMINUM THAT WILL BE OBSOLETE IN 2 YEARS TIME!!!

Go ahead and waste $$$ on a patent I say!

Lol.. What a spontaneous idea this man just had. /s

Right when it started getting interesting... It died out.

Hopefully the silence means gears are turning and the oil lamp is burning!

This isn't something that gets done on the forums, the progress gets shown here. The reference design is literally insane so they set a high bar to start with. I mean.... anyway, you'll see ;)