Bitcoin Forum

I have been in to Bitcoin and Altcoins for about 2 years now, and I know a bubble when I see one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMHkLyQrooo

Human population is still increasing in a finite resource world.

Even if the growth remain stagnant, the declining supply and abundant of fiat currency will keep the price up.

Sure, that makes sense. But then we have to factor in other countries with tiny populations and massive oil wells that they have not been able to access before now.

Then we have to factor in things like alternative and reusable fuel sources. "Clean coal" is somehow becoming a thing. And Solar powered Bitcoin mining. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189959.0

I don't think the oil bubble will burst just yet, instead we would see more wars to try to take the resources.

What happens when everyone realizes that there is just oil everywhere and no one needs more?

Right, it would burst.

Everything is about to get cheap. Maybe not this year, but once everyone catches on.

Everyone please tweet "@SpeakerBoehner Why was an International Gas Pipeline suggested, without any form of drop in gas prices projected?"

What's OP talking about?  I'm not familiar with any developments which would bring prices down..

Fracking + the Middle East/Russia etc.

Ah but we get better at extracting more resources with less effort. The world market is dripping with crude. We just have a government induced bottleneck on the way to market.

It's coming.

Tell this to those guys :

http://www.eia.gov/countries/analysisbriefs/China/images/oil_production_consumption.png

And let's imagine Indians having enough money to buy and drive a car like americans do....

1. The human population is still increasing, with the exception of Europe / Japan.
2. The standard of living is increasing, thereby increasing the per capita consumption of oil and gas.
3. The value of USD is going down, there by increasing the Dollar prices for oil and gas.

Do they not have fracking?

1. Oil production is increasing faster
2. Renewable resources are being pushed everywhere
3. The US is an oil and motor based economy and they are slipping on innovation in motor and energy. Once that changes so will the economy.

You are correct, however advances in technology can make "uses" of gas more efficient and "production" of old/gas (mining) more efficient.

I would not say we are in a bubble, but over the long term the prices of old and gas can go down (and likely will due to advances in technology).

The oil production is not increasing in proportion to the increase in demand.


As of now, all the renewables consist of a very tiny fraction of the overall power / fuel generation. The proportion might increase over time, but an increase from 1% to 2% doesn't mean anything.  >:(


Technology has reached saturation point as far as motor / energy is concerned.

wait, what do you mean the declining supply of fiat currency? it's not declining.. it's doing the exact opposite right now.

Supply of the US Dollar is increasing logarithmically for sure. I doubt that the situation is same with other currencies as well.

http://www.financeandeconomics.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/TMS0313.pnghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mAg6FMpNGpM/Ta9ICcEMonI/AAAAAAAABBM/UoQG8vxtBX0/s1600/U.S.%2BDollar%2BPurchasing%2BPower.jpg

I have heard the term "Oceans of oil" in reference to what is being found under the US. Imagine what is going to happen in Saudi Arabia, and Russia. And what about places like Burnei that already had MASSIVE oil stocks and less than 500,000 people.

The motor and energy industries are not stagnant. Motor has become Robotics, and Energy is up in the air.

Yes, fracking and oil shale supplies are going to flood the market soon. What we need it refining capacity. We will be a net exporter soon if it hasn't happened all ready.

Those are just rumors. There are no oceans of oil anywhere. It is true that the American oil production is increasing. But also remember that the demand for oil in the US is also increasing.

And regarding Brunei. The oil production there is actually declining, as the older fields are getting unproductive.

Either I misunderstand Fracking, or all the Colorado PSAs are wrong about how much oil we are finding. Or you're wrong.

Bitcoin Vs Oil, we just need like a "Solar Coin" or "Earth Coin" or "Water Coin" or "Wind Coin" that can support Bitcoin as well as energy development.

http://www.vocativ.com/tech/bitcoin/bitcoin-u-s-a-digital-dollars-communities-might-be-coming-to-a-town-near-you/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365035.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235081.0

will not burst in our lifetime

the US profits on this state as everyone uses $ to trade oil
bigger price means more $ traded, bigger demand bigger price
more money they can print without devaluation means more money in their hands

USA has too much power, they will influence anything to keep the current oil state

Ok, but you realize we border Mexico and Venezuela is not that far away. And like everyone and their grandma is Fracking. Peter Schiff is Fracking he said on Joe Rogan's Podcast.

This is what I have got from the IEA:

http://industrializedcyclistblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/tvberggraph.png

The American oil production can grow to at least 11 million barrels per day by 2020. But that is still much lower than the 19 million barrels consumed by the American users every day.

Again, there are countries like Burnei that hardly have any people and tons of oil, and fracking is new.

As I have already posted, the scope for fracking is limited in Brunei. Most of the oil wells are drying up, and with fracking the best they can hope for is to stabilize the production, not increasing it.

And I have already posted, that is only one example, there are also countries like Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iraq, Ukraine, Venezuela, Canada, etc.

highly doubt its anywhere near pop-position.
demand keeps increasing and production of oil/gas is not following, so i think we are yet to see a real bubble there.
only thing that can stop it from forming is hard determined siding with renewable energy sources over short time, which wont happen

Demand keeps increasing? So, are we talking about an isolated country or the whole world. Because I have responses for both, and you can go up and read them if you want, or I can repost them once you tell me where your hypothetical is taking place.

Demand for energy and oil is increasing throughout the world (this is what really matters).

The increased demand for oil of which supply does not keep up with will push up the prices of oil, which will create the incentive for people to come up with other, efficient ways to produce energy.

Here is the proof:

http://greenecon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/china_indial.jpg

The oil consumption might be stable in the US and the EU. But in India and China, it is rising sharply.

What is especially important to note is that these two countries comprise something like 34% of the entire worlds population.  As standards of living in these places continue to rise and more members of these countries can afford things like cars or other luxuries, there is no reason to think that demand for oil will do anything but rise, especially in the near term. 

What about the near infinite amount of methane in the arctic?

There is a dilemma there. If it gets released un-burned it traps more heat then if it is burned and we release CO2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wofv9o0j1Ew Check this out.

It would be probable that increased oil/energy prices would stiffle the increases in standards of living in China.

What the world needs is more efficient ways to harvest energy. There are two possible solutions to having to use so much oil that costs skyrocket. One is Nuclear energy, it is very cheap and once infrastructure is in place a lot can be generated per square foot of a nuclear power plant. The 2nd possibility is to somehow harvest solar energy in a much more efficient way.

This is speculation but if heat energy can somehow be transferred back into kinetic energy in a cost efficient way then all of the worlds problems would go away. My understands of physics is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed only transferred into different types and that all energy eventually gets transferred into heat energy. But if there was a way to transfer heat energy into kinetic (battery) energy we would be good to go.

While I agree that China and India are going to put an increased demand on oil reserves in the near term....the environmental impact will definitely play a role in tweaking it a bit.  Already, Beijing has rampant pollution problems to the point that people are wearing masks there and its covered in a thick hazy fog.  They have to do something to curb car pollution, which will ultimately force oil demand down in the long run.

The Chinese government is considering to replace diesel and gasoline driven vehicles with those driven by CNG (from the Russia pipeline) by 2018. It will reduce the pollution. But only a fraction of the Chinese population lives in Beijing. The other cities will continue to use oil.

Government should invest in mass transits technology and avoid having everyone needing a car.

It's probably contrived, but the Iraqi crisis will keep the price up for now.  Then there will be another crisis to do the same thing.

And how much oil were these countries producing 80 years ago compared to now? You don't think that ALL these countries are spiking in production and will continue to go UP?

Hate to say it but I agree with this fella.  We will just come up with additional reasons to invade whatever oil producing countries aren't bending to our will.  WMD, humanitarian aid, terrorist threat take your pick.  Our government has gotten quite adept with their wholly owned media sources convincing the public of things that just aren't true.

The Chinese government has invested a lot in Mass Transportation technologies, such as the Beijing-Shanghai High-Speed Rail. But the number of cars are still growing at a rapid pace.

Mass transit is only profitable if it is transporting people over relatively short distances that is heavily traveled (eg in cities).

Right now the total oil production is around 93,250,000 per day, with the US accounting for more than 20% of it. The consumption in the US might remain stable, but that in China (9.8 m), Japan (4.5m), India (3.3m), and Saudi Arabia (2.8m) are growing very rapidly.

Check these graphs:

http://images.angelpub.com/2010/12/4207/world-oil-demand.png

http://www.internetional.se/images/07-07-10_world_oil_demand.png

The renewables won't be accounting to more than 5% by 2030. The remaining 95% will have to be covered by Uranium, Coal, Oil and Gas.

You guys are acting as if Fracking was not invented.

There is a NEW way to drill for oil, that is CHEAPER and gives them access to MANY times the amount of oil they had before.

In Colorado alone we have commercials talking about some crazy amounts coming out of the ground, and they are getting SO much oil that they can afford to just make random commercials about it to make us like it. They are on YouTube they are on TV they are on Bus Stops, they are everywhere. I can't imagine that we have seen the price drop that this is bringing.

That seems like a VERY conservative estimate of 2030.
Sure, if things continue the way they are I could see 5% renewable. But things don't look like they are going to stay the same. There are now windmills in TEXAS, Kansas, California and various other states (I made the word Texas big because you wouldn't even expect them to do that, but even they are doing it).

I would say that by 2030 China will HAVE to change to renewables, or they will kill off their own people with smog and their development will cease.

Again,
Fracking is NEW. People have ALWAYS (previously) been struggling to get oil. That is not new news.
The new news is that oil is EASIER TO GET NOW (because of fracking).

How is this not penetrating your denseness?

Well, let's wait and see if it is that easy.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34410241/chart.jpg (http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus1&f=m)

Ex:
Let's say that the ONLY known source of sugar was grapes. They have a good source of sugar, but they grow fairly slowly and you really only use the fruit to do anything with, so it is kind of costly to use for sugar. Then there is the fact that people want to use grapes for wine.

This is a good analogy because oil is hard and costly to get, like getting at the fruit of a plant. And people use oil to make things like plastic products, which is like people using grapes for wine.

Now.
Say we discovered sugar cane THIS YEAR, and discovered that we could start using it for sugar production AND to make Rum in place of wine (in the oil example we can still make plastics with fracking oil, and new sources like hemp plastics and other forms of plastic being made).

So...
We still have grapes all over the world, people are still harvesting grapes and doing their thing. But now there is basically a NEW sugar industry, that produces MORE sugar than the old one. The new one is adopting it now, but I am sure their are people that are sticking to the old ways because they don't want to buy new equipment or whatever.

But with the new "Rum" and "Sugar" in market, fresh wine will not be so expensive because it has competition and will want to be able to compete against the rum producers in price so consumers will pay for it. Same with sugar, any sugar made from grapes will either be PUSHED OUT because they cost too much, OR will go down in value because of the new sugar influx.

Do you get it?

To me it looks like we are back to the place I said. In the 1990s and 2000s, gas was $1ish a gallon. And I don't remember wages going up 4x since then... We are in a bubble.

AGAIN

We (here in Colorado) have commercials about this stuff. And they have LITERALLY told us that we will be able to get enough oil for the next few decades like NOW, and we will continue to be getting more (or they wouldn't be making ads to ask us to support fracking, they would just try to get all the oil out right now and be done with it, but that is not possible because there is SO much).

Now...
This is ONE state. There is Texas and Alaska, which I am pretty sure produce more than Colorado. THEN there is Venezuela, Canada and all the smaller surrounding nations that have oil under them.

Then there is the middle east.

If Colorado can get enough oil to support itself for the next few decades NOW, then what makes you think the world can't do that very soon?
And once there is THAT MUCH oil just floating around, the countries with smaller populations will start flooding the market of places like America and China until FINALLY, the Bubble (that we ARE in) will pop.

Ex: We have all heard that "Fracking can make America reliant on its OWN source of oil instead of dependence on foreign oil" but what happens when the foreign countries are ALL self sufficient also, and have oil to sell us that is CHEAPER than the oil we can pull out of the ground ourselves? People will start buying the cheaper stuff. Bubble pops.

If someone can look at ^^THIS^^ graph and NOT see a bubble, they are blind.

Also, this is a little of topic, but I recently saw an episode of VICE where they talked about the North Pole glaciers and stuff and they were talking about how there is over 30% of the worlds oil reserves are under the ice up there. And as we melt everything, more of it becomes available, and as drilling tech gets better, more of it becomes available.

So not only has fracking opened up oil that was previously inaccessible, there are now oil fields that HAVE melted open and ARE melting open, and America has a claim to a percentage of that land, since they own Alaska and the water around Alaska makes America a "border" to the North Pole.

So, no matter what, there is tons of oil coming on the market. It doesn't matter if it comes from the deserts or the tundras or South America or Africa, it's coming.

Now I am watching an episode of VICE about Exxon Mobile in New Guinea, and I am pretty sure that the Bubble is not only popping, but these people will soon be considered Global Criminals.

There is also an Epidemic around the gulf, where because American lobbyist have us using toxic outdated oil cleaning methods, the oil is not gone, it is just at the bottom of the ocean and comes back up every time there is a storm or something.

Then there is shit like FOX news having Bill Nye on all the time for "debates" and instead of debating about SOLUTIONS or the FOX people trying to convince Bill that there IS clean oil and coal (if there is MORALLY clean oil and coal I would like to hear about it) and instead they argue about whether or not climate change is real. Which is fucking ridiculous.

So I think we are in a moment of boom, which will FINALLY pop this bubble they created by telling us this stuff was rare and that we were running out. THEN there will be a global outcry because oil people are FUCKING over people, FUCKING the environment and RAPING the planet with drills. Fracking take THOUSANDS of gallons of water, and makes the water poisonous. This is happening ALL OVER the planet.

So all of this is kind of coming to a tipping point all at once.

Start investing in other technologies.

Ex: Where is Solar Coin and Eco Coin and Wind Coin, etc. That have like 10% of coins mined going to tech development?
Have you ever seen a Bitcoiner that made a Windmill that gathers energy?
There are people with Solar mining machines https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189959.0
Is there anyone near a river that has a hydraulic mining rig?

Also, a lot of people don't recognize this, but Marijuana/Hemp can be used to make Alcohol, which is Ethanol. Which is Bio-Diesel.
So the boom in Marijuana around the country will also probably lead to a boom in renewable fuel. Just give everyone a few years to learn everything about the plants they are messing with.

Does anyone know of any gas stations that accept Bitcoin yet?

Marijuana is more valuable as a consumable good by people. No rational person going to use it as fuel where fuel can be obtained cheaper elsewhere.

You are making a mistake.

The alcohol would come from the sugars, which would be in the waste material, like fan leaves and stalk. The buds are full of starches, so there are 2 parts to be used. And even if you use the sugar leaves for hash, you still have fan leaves and stalks/stems.

They have an incentive to melt the ice caps. Perfect.

Lol, what if that is why FOX wants them to melt.

I do feel like this bubble will not pop just yet
Only because of the fact that if Iraq gets taken over oil security in the Middle East will be at risk yet again
Not really affecting US/CAD supplies but it will get the speculators pushing the market price up again lol.

But the Kurds are becoming established, ISIS is becoming established, and you KNOW America and Russia are involved on both sides of this somehow.

True enough OIL is a form of diplomacy a lot of money moves into it
That said it might push the price per gallon to 4 dollars for a while this summer before coming back down
I miss cheap oil and gas but supplies are getting more expensive since we pretty much mined all the cheap stuff lol.

Yeah, I am not saying it is going to happen like tomorrow. But it WILL happen, we are in a bubble. It is just a matter of when it decides to pop.

No major change in the usage of energy since the beginning of the last century.  We still rely on power plants built 1/2 a century ago.  Cars run on the same hydrocarbon fuels, except now we can lug around heavy batteries too.

For every 1% increase in efficiency the world is using 2% more energy.

Yep Jevon's Paradox the more efficient the technology the greater the consumption.
At least it means we are finding efficiencies though take the nuclear energy industry no new capacity since the 1970s but it still retains the same market share due to improvements over the decades.

I'm hoping India's thorium projects will provide some critical success and show an alternative to the current fuels used in modern reactors.  That is a project that has a 50 year vision, not the week by week energy policy of the US.

I think that Thorium was a smarter idea than uranium as an energy fuel historically the main reason uranium was used was because it was possible to build a nuclear weapon out of it while thorium reactors while not impossible to make nuclear weapons with was more difficult to use.
http://www.beyondnuclear.org/storage/fact-sheets/Thorium%20and%20Nuclear%20Weapons.pdf

There were already thorium reactors 30 to 40 years ago experimental types but they were destroyed in favor of a Uranium based alternative, that said India has a lot more thorium than uranium so it makes sense for them to switch over to that instead to power their cities.

Still if the world had thorium and uranium reactors built simultaneously instead of favoring one over the other as the founder of the nuclear navy General Rickover wanted the sustainability of alternative energy systems would probably have substituted oil and as long as proper care is given and we don't end up with Three Mile Island or Fukushima incidents.

That said this is also the same man who helped to develop the efficiencies of Uranium based reactors to its current standard by always seeking to improve it so he deserves some credit for that as well, although he did purge Weinberg in the process as a non-negotiating person.

http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/admiral-rickover-missed-the-boat-on-thorium-and-doomed-us-all/4496

The idea of using thorium for nuclear energy has been around for decades. But it has always taken second place to uranium because — get this — it is hard to make bombs out of it.

That's right; when the world's superpowers were waging the Cold War, the last thing they wanted was nuclear power that wouldn't destroy their enemies. The result of this was that Admiral Rickover, the father of the nuclear navy, pushed uranium over thorium.

The scientists who worked for the military went on to civilian life after the war and replicated what they knew, and that was uranium-based reactors.

The sad part is that thorium beats uranium in all aspects of electricity production. It is cheaper, safer, faster, scalable, more efficient, and produces much less waste.

This year so far, there has been considerable reduction in the oil output from Russia and Saudi Arabia. The Russian oil production has fallen by 4%, while the Saudi output has declined by 2%. And the Iraqi and Libyan oil production are nowhere close to the optimal levels.

That and its a bit funny but the only place with increasing oil production was the area that is now in the middle of a civil war :)
That and the US kind of killed Libyas production which is still reeling
http://www.arabnews.com/news/593696

Libya, with its 48 billion barrels of reserves, is pumping a mere ten percent of what it can, the lowest level since September 2011.
Sabotage has significantly reduced the flow of oil out of Nigeria as well. And, if Iran and the West can’t reach a deal on Iran’s nuclear program in July, Iran could soon be facing renewed sanctions on its oil industry.
In other words, Iraq might be the least of the world’s worries

That said apparently the fracking is working why I mentioned US/Can supplies being secure since supplies are up because of North American production. But still affected by speculations on the price but a recent study proved it does cause the earthquakes lol because the wastewater never comes back well for a long long time.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/earthquakes-triggered-by-fracking-wastewater-in-oklahoma-1.2695536

If China continues the way they are going (and India is coming right behind them) how long do you think people can live in clouds of smoke? And how thick do they have to get before everyone dies?

Even if India and China continue to develop, they have to change things.

Again, you are disregarding small countries that have massive oil reserves and almost no population.
Just like Bitcoin, when someone drops a bunch on the market, it does not matter what the demand is, the price drops.

Then they probably AREN'T EVEN fracking yet. lol

Fracking is not the answer to all the oil shortage in the world. Actually, it is a process which pumps out all remaining spare oil from the already exhausted oil wells. It is expensive, as well as environmentally harmful.

THERE IS NO SHORTAGE.

And there never WAS a shortage. They never started "running out of oil" they just had to "go out in to the ocean to get it" and pretended they were running out so they could sell it for more. That created a price bubble that will now pop.

And it being poisonous and using tons of water won't stop people, it will just cause outcry afterwards.

Texas has just hit the 3 million mark (the state now produces 3 million barrels of crude oil every day, compared to 1.1 million barrels five years ago). Meanwhile, the production from the remainder of the US (especially the Gulf of Mexico) has declined slightly.

And did you know Texas NEVER sells its oil? They just pile it up and buy the oil they use from Saudi Arabia.

Obama just put $4 Billion in renewable tech and is rejecting the pipeline.

not this agian
back in the 80's oil was supposed to run out by 2000.

you can make coal into oil commercially, its called the haber method. there is enough coal to do this for thex 100 year or more, then there are thorium reactors etc etc.

You have the situation backwards. I am not saying we are running out, I am saying we have over stock.

LOL

Colorado now has a commercial that says "Fracking works for Colorado" like "Yeah the rest of the country can have clean and renewable fuels, we just like being oil guys and hillbillys"

And who will store all the toxic gases which are released as a result of the coal liquefaction?

Also, as far as I know, this method is known as the Fischer–Tropsch process. Haber process, on the other hand is used for the production of Ammonia.  ;D

Obama is denying the pipeline and putting $4 Billion in to renewables. So, there will probably be some new stuff happening over the next few years.

Yeah, Fischer-Tropsch is being used mostly.
Or you can use the Bergius Process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergius_process

How America fell in the shitter
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=679881

$4 Billion in Renewables.

Peak oil has been a BS since M.King Hubbert came out with it he did his calculations without accounting for the Unconventional's
Fracking and Off-Shore Drilling and coal to oil to name a few.

To be more accurate we have been finding new supplies of oil consistently and a Mckelvey Box is the true way to measure oil supplies
With Commercial Oil - Profitable
Non-Commercial - Not profitable
And Undiscovered reserves

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/McKelvey_Box.jpg

The real problem is that the cost of getting this new oil is increasingly expensive as the easy reserves are found and depleted the base price for the new oil increases as well.
These higher prices make non-commercial oil commercially profitable to acquire and lead to the higher oil prices.

Yes new methods cost money, BUT we must not forget that there are small countries that we have already been developing (Saudi, etc) that eventually will under price any oil compared to the US market. Then eventually there will be new countries coming up and small underdeveloped countries like Bernai selling eve CHEAPER oil.

Someone mentioned about Iran on reddits bitcoin page, on them trading their oil and gas to bitcoin.

So thats a sign I guess its about to pop? cant find anymore oil rigs to drill?

No. you just have to look at the bigger picture. They have TOO MUCH oil already, they are kinda like the equivalent to someone that started mining in 2011, except it's oil and gas not bitcoin, and decades instead of a few years.

They see a market growing (kinda how Bitcoiners noticed gold eventually) and now they want to trade what they have TOO much of, for something they don't have enough of.

That's true enough there could be cheap reserves that are accessible in countries that are underdeveloped, in that case one needs to stabilize those countries to get access to those reserves.
The other option would be to destabilize the country and then buy the cheaper oil from the groups fighting that need funding.

Tons of them are stabilized. South America, etc.

Oil and gas price will continue to go up in long term as these are essential resources and limited in supply.

I understand the dollar sucks, but again, even on that graph. Compare 1980 to today, and we are in an oil and gas bubble for sure.

FOX news even started to notice. They are now doing stories about the EPA and stuff and Sarah Palin is trying to "throw off the scent" by trying to empeach Obama.

Everyone tweet this thread @FoxNews @OreillyFactor @TheFive @MegynKelly @SeanHannity

China will have to cut down on fossil fuels simply due to the fact that their cities become less and less habitable with all the smog these days. You can't even seem to see your own hand!

Yeah, when they start dying they will leave or stop using so much.

Actually I think they are going to LNG more now (Liquified Natural Gas) to get rid of their Coal addiction which is where all the smog that affects their factories come from so its actually backwards XD.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/china-japan-shippers-to-launch-arctic-lng-route-1404905617

It's still cheaper to use the other stuff than it is to work on renewable tech
Pretty much its a matter of economy

This is why it is important to invest in things like nuclear energy that is close to unlimited in supply.

There is enough oil and gas supply for another 200 years. That is enough time to develop alternative energy sources. The giant oil and gas companies is monopolizing the price and hidden the real volume of the oil reserves. They even lobbying the congress not to develop fusion technologies and they also stopping the thorium nuclear research.

Congress has stopped pretty much all nuclear initiative since the mid 1970s.

Even though there may be plenty of oil and gas for a century, the supplies that area easily accessible are dwindling.  Deeper and deeper drilling techniques will be need as well as trench drilling.  That's going to drive the cost up.

There are still substantial amounts of gas and oil present in reserves across the world, just not economcally feasible or technologically lacking in the means of extracting them efficiently.

While finite nature and huge consumption of fossil fuels is a serious concern, the bigger concern is the economic and technological aspects of fossile fuel extraction.

The shale oil and shale gas, if it is further followed by technological and economic factors that enable their efficient extraction, can easily double the life span of fossil fuel use, even accounting for steadily increasing consumption of such materials.

If you want some kind of renewable alternative source of energy, look into fusion ignition as the core initiative. United States have poured billions of dollars into the nuclear weapons and research facilities, and those same institutions are also responsible for overall nuclear research and its energy applications. Recently national ignition facility at lawerence livermore nuclear laboratory succeeded in a temporary ignition of fusion power, a huge mile stone for fusion as a legitimate energy source.

Instead of fantasizing about flowers and pixie dust and tree hugging paradise, we must be practical in researching a source of new energy.

I'd suspect those who have all power and control of the energy sector will look for ways to remain in control of whatever it evolves into.  I can imagine a from of energy that a small few will control in some from of another most likely by some from of regulation(carbon taxes).

This is exactly what the obama administration is trying to do with it's energy policies.

LOFL

I think the Colorado politicians saw this thread. They are back tracking now, instead of making commercials about how we have SO much oil and gas and ARE getting so much more than we ever have, now they are now making commercials talking about how fracking has been around in Colorado for 60 years and right now are the tightest regulations they have ever had.

This is HILARIOUS. They are trying to create false rarity again.

We all have to realize we are in a gas bubble. If we demand the market correct itself, it will. Vote with your dollar and your twitter account.

I really don't understand why we don't use more nuclear energy in this country. It is by far the cleanest and cheapest form of energy and we are basically not going to run out.

The main problem with that is all the regulatory costs that go into making that nuclear reactor
It can cost hundreds of millions to set up and clear and then citizens may say we don't want a reactor here etc and cancel the project making the risk a gamble that many don't want to take. (Pretty much cost overrun risk no income and a schedule to complete it by getting delayed)

Even if it does get approved the ROI takes many years from when it was first made to break even and then adding regulatory costs even more than initially planned so its a complicated issue.
That said once built it can run for a long time and it does make a good return.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_nuclear_power_plants
http://atomicinsights.com/examples-of-regulatory-costs-for-nuclear-energy-development/

In 2013, investment advisers Morningstar, Inc. concluded that, in developed countries, “reactors are not a viable source of new power”. Even in developed nations where they make economic sense, they are not feasible because nuclear’s “enormous costs, political and popular opposition, and regulatory uncertainty”.

I think soon we will just seen Solar prices and stuff drop.

Have you guys heard of the solar panels that are made from crab shell (renewable resource), they can use like magnifying glasses on them because they can take more heat, so a smaller panel can be used to gather a bigger amount of light.

Prices of solar panals are not going to drop. They are already subsidized by the state (a lot of them) and the federal government; and have been for years, but the prices have not dropped. 

Another reason it's good that this bubble is popping and energy dependency will be moving in to different areas.

Can you imagine if America somehow got sanctions put on them, and we had no fuel? Like a time period in America where gas stations has no source of gas.
I bet you would wish you could pour some Ethanol/Bio-Diesel (Alcohol) in your tank.

That is because not enough people are buying them yet. They are still trying to MAKE money.

And Alcohol is the big one. They get away with selling little bottles for $40 each. Eventually Alcohol will just be at every gas station (in the pump) and it will be like $2 a gallon. Since it's NOT hard to make anyways, and they are just making money on us because we recognize brands and like to get drunk on alcohol instead of using it casually as fuel.

If new technology is invented, then surely the prices will drop. But that can take many many years... probably a few decades. Right now, the raw materials which are used for the manufacturing of solar panels are prohibitively expensive.

The problem here is you assume the average person is smarter than a cat.  Well they are not.

doesn't matter

cats understand everything we say, they just don't obey [read it somewhere]

humans understand something the authority says, we obey

that's the difference

people think what the authority wants them to think simply because they're uninterested in the subject

The US is dependent on oil imports for around 40% of its (massive) annual consumption.

 It turns out that the US is spending $114 to extract a barrel of oil (blame it on shale) - whilst the Venezualans, for eg., can knock it out at $20 a barrel  :o

   According to Sanford C. Bernstein (Wall Street) “Net income margins in the sector (US oil extraction) are now at the lowest in a decade - This is not sustainable. Either prices must rise or costs must fall,”     [we must agree also that Bernstein don't give a shit about the politics, they are only interested in the dollar - and so in this respect I'd cite them as a reliable source here].
       [ http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ec3bb622-c794-11e2-9c52-00144feab7de.html#axzz2sN5MfMfp]

    At this rate the US will be having to subsidise domestic oil extraction from the public purse and so be in danger of getting in hock to the Chinese for another trillion dollars - oh, wait a minute, it seems they effectively already are subsidising it http://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/oil-tax-break.asp.    http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/. In other words - domestic US oil production is not profitable.

    As much as I admire the average Americans willingness to transfer their hard earned dollar directly to the coffers of BP, Exxon, Chevron, Shell and ConocoPhillips , all in all the outlook doesn't look too promising does it ? - and there you have right on the doorstep, not a stones throw away, those horrible Commi Venezualans sat on the worlds largest reserves of crude - at $20 a barrel to extract , selling the stuff cheap to the fuckin Cubans and using the income to help their own poor and disadvantaged.


 I suppose what I'm driving at is that in a global and competitive economy the superpower nation is not that nation which is paying $120 per barrel when others are paying $50. The whole of US foreign policy is directed toward securing that cheap oil . Not paying top dollar - for in that course of action lay bankruptcy.

Unless they are a Friedcat ha-ha kid anyways the Oil price is high till the summer ends at least
http://www.wtrg.com/daily/crudeoilprice.html

101.67 ATM

There is new technology. There are now Solar Panels that use sheets of glass or plastic that work like magnifying glasses, then you don't have to spend as much getting a large panel, because you just have to have enough to fill the focal point.

They now have a source of renewable material to make solar panels out of, so they will get cheaper. They can make them out of Crab Shells now, and when you make them out of Crab Shell you can make them curved, therefor getting more light than you otherwise would.

CALLED IT

of course, with increasing technology, the more the invention of more sophisticated and efficient, fuel efficient than a very appropriate choice, as we all know that the longer the non-renewable energy reserves such as oil and coal are dwindling and increasingly depleted , so in the end we need renewable energy and there must be a technology that supports the energy, such as solar energy, solar emergi long predicted will still end

necessary technology capable of utilizing solar energy, for example, research on solar-powered cars, solar powered car, or a solar-powered aircraft, hopefully scientists can immediately issue a technology that refers to the future ...  ::)

Great call.
We are already at a cross point where solar energy is almost cheaper than oil derived one, I think by the end of the next year we will see an enormous increase in solar technology adoption around the world that will make what we saw this year look very tiny in comparison. By the end of 2016, at least in my country (Italy), I'm confident many condos will use solar instead of normal electricty and will become completely indipendent from national providers soon after.

This was the best part :D

Good job OP

No it is not.

The reason why Oil and Gaz prices are low is due to Saudi Arabia strategy to punish the US for it new oil policy (shale and what's not) and of course political reasons such as the US getting closer to Iran....

By keeping Oil prices low, Saudi Arabia mainly is making investement and breaking even point of shale oil and other alternative very difficult and Saudi Arabia is ready to keep the price low for a couple of years if it needs two, other countries like Venezella or Algeria ...ect cannot afford that

I think it would be backwards for Saudi Arabia to "punish" the US by having energy prices low. It is especially backwards to keep it low in order to delay the development of new technology of extracting oil.

Higher oil prices would have a much worse impact on the US economy and the US government over both the short and long term, especially sharply higher oil prices (just think of what happened in the 1970's oil/gas crisis.

Remember that the US is the world's top importer of crude oil and other petroleum products. Any fall in crude prices is going to be beneficial for the US, while affecting the Saudis negatively.

Yes, that is exactly my point. A spike in the price of oil would cause the US economy to rapidly slow down as people ship less items and use less transportation (drive less and go on vacations less). However a more gradual increase in the price of energy would cause the US to invest in other sources of energy like nuclear power

It also affects your #1 ally - Canada.

We brought you oil when everyone else hated you.  Now you do this???

At least everyone still needs plastic (made from oil)!   ;)

Mostly true. There are some pretty dumb cats out there too. All my cat does is eat, poop, piss, and scratch the shit out of me when I try to pet him. He doesn't seem too smart to me.  8)

I could personally give a crap less about the rich ass Saudis. But I sure have been enjoying paying $2.75 a gallon for gas lately. Hell, when was the last time gas prices were this low? 2008? 2009?

It was more like 2010 when gas was this low. When Obama was elected in late 2008 gas was ~$1.80 per gallon.

It still has a very long way to drop until gas will get back to levels seen at the beginning of the Obama administration

You didn't read my comment properly please reread it again.

I suggest you to look at US Oil importation production, and Shale Oil production in the last 4 years, also check out, the production for shale oil in the US, maybe you'll understand, I also invite you to check out the Shale oil revolution plan by the whitehouse

And for good measure and read :
http://online.wsj.com/articles/saudi-oil-price-cut-upends-market-1415063053
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-collapse-of-oil-prices-has-washington-just-shot-itself-in-the-oily-foot/5412265