Bitcoin Forum

yeah they too can hodl them and benefit if bitcoin goes to moon!..
no point in selling now...they too can add wealth to FBI..

maybe buy some FBI gadgets using bitcoins.

Make more money.

You can try. I do not believe FBI would listen to us emailing them about bitcoin being an investment tool. Those are evidence to a case, they are not likely to touch them yet. If they were considering selling them, they will auction them off exchange. So, the market price would not be hugely affected.

I dont see too much of an issue with this. It's a private auction with the coins, not a exchange selling them off. If they went to an exchange to do this, I would be very concerned, but with a private auction it creates a sale outside of the BTC ecosystem and should have little effect on the price aside from speculator fears.

i actually prefer this be done with ASAP. i don't want it to linger around like the "will china ban bitcoin" circus. once it's done, it's done... no takesies backsies. no one will need to speculate whether it happens, and/or when it happens.

What is more important to you? Having a higher number or the ability to change the number you control?

You can write all you want but the law will prevail and the law kills your idea.

Let's get this done with already. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, the effects will be temporary, then we can move on to the next thing {whatever that may be)

Why would someone E-Mail the FBI, anyway?

By the way, the FBI won't listen to us. They back the Gov, or only listen to the Gov. I doubt a petition would do much, but hey. We're Bitcoiners.

Yes they should hold them. 30,000 coins X 1,000,000 per coin in 2017 could pay down the debt by a few percent! ;)

People without $ always what to tell the ones who have it what to do. Stick your email up your ass n go about your day :D (respectfully)

I'll feel better when the FED's don't have these monster wallets that they could pwn a market such as BTC-E or Bitstamp with! Ty for the auctions. Let them do their thing and take their exit.

The sad thing is that they either dont know or dont care.

how many BTC does the FBI actually hold? So much to being private.

1) It is the DOJ not the FBI who temporary holds seized property
2) They sell all of it as quickly as is manageable.  Million dollar mansions, metric tons of gold, priceless works of art, yachts, speedboats, vehicles, stocks, and yes now bitcoins.
3) They are obligated by law to dispose of seized property.  They aren't speculators, they sell it off and add the proceeds to the US treasury.

While the Gov't needs a viable source of real income, the points above are correct and writing the Feds about holding will not do any good.
They are not selling near the top, but already made a big profit compared to the day of the SR bust.



You just reminded me, they are only selling far less than half of what they hold. The DPR stash is not being sold now, possibly related to the on-going trial.

Govt should put bitcoin bounties on the heads of heinous violent criminals with no other color (victimless crimes).

I would rather the feds not hold any coins. They could be used for market manipulation and the current way they do things with regular money doesn't exactly give you confidence that they wouldn't exercise that power.  

This happens in most of the countries like where i live the money will be used to pay national debts or fund government projects

There may indeed be a sinister motive behind their pre-announcing the sale of these coins.  I'm almost inclined to believe it was for exactly this reason.

Should be interesting to see what happens to the price of bitcoin between now and the 27th that's for sure.  Already dumping 30% of what I have JIC it ends up taking a couple more serious dips.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/fbi-readies-144-341-bitcoins-for-sale-1402606244

Got a feeling the price may be push abit lower before the 27th. Its going to be off exchange so shouldnt massively effect at the time. Hopefully the person buying them wont flood the market but who knows who will buy from the FBI likely some high up company who wants in on a quick buck.

http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/bitcoins/

I don think so the gorverment need money so they will surely sell the coin .

Just hope they don sell it too cheap .

I'm in no way confortable with the US gov officially holding so many bitcoins. We all know they have more than that off the record, but this is ammunition to fear mongers scare noobs by making they think the FBI one day will just dump everything on Bitstamp. I would write a petition asking to FBI sell the coins  as soon as possible,  without causing another chinese bans effect on BTC price.


But I agree the terms of the auction are suspicious, to be generous.

If it is a private auction then the chances are very low that the coins will start flooding the exchanges. 29,000 coins at today's rate is equivalent to some $17.5 million USD. Most probably, some of the big names will be able to buy them, and then hold the coins for long-term investment. And I don't discount the possibilities of the auction price going higher than the market exchange rates.

Someone who spent $17m on BTC will be a fool to dump them straight away I hope. Even in blocks of 3,000 its still alot to stump up for and dump especially as it seems this news is causing a shortening of BTC.

The FBI is not a private business looking to hold assets. They seize assets on a regular basis through criminal cases (houses, money, cars, etc) and do not hold them speculating on long term gains. That's how it works there, this particular seized asset (bitcoins) isn't going to change that.

Anyway, I'd rather they sell to private parties and let THEM benefit from future increase in value.

As far as 'to the moon'. Now THAT'S a good idea! I think the moon would be the perfect place for the FBI to relocate  ;)

HODLLLLLLLL!!

No, bitcoins must flow.

If you talk with the FBI they will laugh in your face :D

Nope. They will first confiscate your system and other stuff, and then they will launch an inquiry in to your alleged dealings in the TOR black markets such as Silk Road and Agora Marketplace.

It doesn't matter if the mass amount of coins are sold on exchange, or privately. It'll eventually trickle down to the market. Sure the FBI isn't originally dumping it on an exchange, but there is no guarantee that the auction winner will not in turn dump it on an exchange or hold them.

lmao..."trickle down" being used in reference to bitcoin economics.  It's the beginning of the end of libertarian dream!!  

*seriously though, I gotta agree with the fella that says it doesn't matter if the coins are sold on an exchange or privately, the same exact price manipulation BS can take place with private holders literally minutes after they receive their coins from the fed.

it'll still be a net positive if the auction draws massive whales that would otherwise not have dipped their feet., something like an impetus for wallstreet to join the game. but no one knows whether that will happen or not.

Who else do you think will buy them?

Dank?

Perhaps large whales or wall street will join, but they will not be buying from the current pool of available bitcoins, which has no positive effect on driving prices up. They buy directly from FBI, which has a potential of crashing the price afterwards.

whales are called whales for a reason, and wallstreeters play big. they would start buying bitcoins, not just from the FBI.. as investments.

You people have not yet figured out that the US government is going to auction the seized Bitcoins in a manner following the law and there is not the least fucking thing that you can do about it.

This is not necessarily true.

What the auction will do is create supply that would not otherwise be there.

I don't understand the prevailing mood. It is a good thing that the US government is offloading its Bitcoin stash. Such a huge stash with a hostile government could act as a trojan horse for Bitcoin in the future. Actually we should welcome this step.

You know what the US gov can also do with the coins once sold? Track them for a long time. The bidder does not truly buy "clean" coins.

This could be an experiment for them to learn how successful they can be at following these sold coins.

Oh, no!

Surely the federal police of the Land of The Free And Home of The Brave would never do anything like that?

A little literature has appeared on blockchain.info, a derivation of Francisco d'Anconia's money speech from Atlas Shrugged to be precise.

Compared to the usual drivel left in public notes, I have to say I found this quite enlightening.  Thought it's worth a share.

https://blockchain.info/address/1i7cZdoE9NcHSdAL5eGjmTJbBVqeQDwgw

I just wonder what they did with

A: The bitcoins they earned from selling the Cocaine to the SR vendors.
and
B: Why they didn't announce "Supertrips" bitcoin auction similar to this way? Maybe they just sold them on bitstamp.

a - those coins were not seized, they were voluntarily given to the FBI, so the FBI would not need to dispose of them in the same way.

b - this was likely a much smaller amount so they would not need to generate as much interest to be able to sell them.

OP, do you think that the FBI will listen to us ?

There are issues which are beyond all of us.

You would probably have a greater chance that they would not sell the coins if we told them that we wanted them to sell the coins.

If you asked the FBI to HODL the coins they would ignore you.  Ask them to hold the coins and perhaps.....nah they won't.

Are we still using hodl?

BTW the real question is... why should they hold the coins? And why I should care?  ???

You should care because, erm, erm, because erm..... yeah not sure i care that they have them.

What will be nice is seeing these coins back in gen pop and being spend/traded around, at the rate BTC is dropping the FBI wont make the 17mil they hope for.

 Actually, with the national debt at 17.5 trillion dollars, those bitcoins even at 1 million dollars each would pay only 0.17% of the debt.... not even close to a few percent.   Why does the US marshals office get the proceeds from these anyway?!  If anything they should donate them to charities.

To cover the cost of doing all the arrests in the first place.

But yes more money should go to charities.

I made some first BTC trades for people if they paid charities and i gave them BTC in exchange. Nothing major like $10 here and there, but more should be done from people.

 Is this a meme I have missed out on?  Is it something like pwned?

 So they make money by busting as many people as possible.  Great system!  How do I get in on that action?

New location of their big stash, the coins claimed by DPR and not being auctioned off (yet):

https://blockchain.info/address/1i7cZdoE9NcHSdAL5eGjmTJbBVqeQDwgw

144,341.53249133 BTC (and growing due to small "donations" every day)

New location of the little stash, the coins that are going to be auction off:

https://blockchain.info/address/1Ez69SnzzmePmZX3WpEzMKTrcBF2gpNQ55

29,658.80070152 BTC (and growing due to small "donations" every day)

In case you are wondering the old location of the two stashes:

https://blockchain.info/address/1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX
https://blockchain.info/address/1FfmbHfnpaZjKFvyi1okTjJJusN455paPH

Which are still also growing due to people sending BTC to them in order to advertise (mostly beg for BTC).

Start a country and start busting people for doing things you dont want them to do. Easy...... ;D

 That's a good idea.  I could make millions of inane laws to enforce as well.  This is going to be lucrative!  Anyone wanting in on my IPO, I'll be listing with Havalock next week.  First thousand buyers get to create an absurd law and become honorary deputies.  30% of the take goes back into creating a larger system whereby we raid other countries and push our laws on those unsuspecting "criminals" as well. The reminder will be paid back in dividends.  Oh and by the way unregistered securities are illegal in this system... just so you know ;)

We need some land first, maybe we could take it with force from someone else because they are lesser than us.

 Yeah and well want it to be someplace warm with a nice view.

I don't know if anyone here mentioned this but the FBI are not selling any BTC, its us US Marshalls! Huge difference if anyone here is really planning on sending an email anywhere!

:D

Be careful what you wish for. Why do you want them to hold bitcoin?

Decentralized crypto currency leaves no place for top down entities. It just feels odd.

Yeah, maybe with lots of good natural resources and plenty of space to grow. Then once we are big enough we can tell others what to do outside our own country.

 It's interesting but also as wrong-headed as Ayn's original diatribe.  Money has never been considered evil, it was the LOVE of MONEY that was and is the root of all evil.  I read Atlas Shrugged but it put me off reading for a long time.  Thanks Ayn!

Its a good thing that they are selling, once sold there will be no pressure of these coins on market anymore.

They also keep seizing bitcoins once in a while


The buyers will be identified and are probably not criminals, if they want to anonymize their bitcoins they can use tumblers or third party websites

 Ideally, we could pretend we are exploring for our respective countries.  We can bring with us all of our disease, prejudices and laws just to get started when we find the right place.  We can even get our standing armies to help clear a place for us and once the money starts rolling in, we tell them - "Hey, we've had enough of you and your system of taxation!" and well declare independence.  Then, we'll tax the heck out of our population of investors... oh wait, if they get wind of that, they'll never invest!

 Then, we'll tax the heck out of our population of investors,
every country in the world taxes the hell out of us anyways so whats the difference  ;D

We will just have to keep it on the downlow right now, but then we go all power hungry on them.  

It really doesn't matter either way.

They are required to do what they are doing by law.

you seriously believe some high ranking officials from DOJ , FBI , US marshalls have not invested in bitcoins?

because if they really did, we can be atleast sure they wont do much harm

Well, I don't know about the FBI, but I'm pretty sure that most police departments are actually legally required to hold public auctions to sell seized property. So emailing them with a request not to sell would do absolutely no good.

High ranking officials DOJ FBI US marshalls don't have all the power

Politicians are invested in Bitcoin

I haven't read any other responses here, but here's mine:   Hell to the No.

You really want the US Government to be one of the biggest holders of Bitcoin?

LOL!!!   Insanity.

-B-

We could. But they wont listen.  They've decided to auction them off and that's what will happen.

Law enforcement isnt in the business of holding onto seized assets even if they may go up in value of time. They aren't an investment firm. It's the norm to sell off seized items and it's not going to change.

It fills my heart with joy seeing people being hilarious with the FBI wallet.

not sure if trolling or ..
anyways; they have no licence that would allow them to trade seized assets. From that, auctioning them in bulk seams like a logical solution, whether they would get more money trading it , or not.
also, keep in mind that they paid 0 $ for them, so, from that, their profit is 100%

As Ferengi rules of aquisition states : "Anything stolen is pure profit" :)
ok, they didnt steal,they seized, but whats the difference anyway

To be honest, without considering if they should seize or not, it seems pretty understandable that they don't speculate and hold the assets

Many of you people live in a dream world and do not understand the law.

IMO its better for them to sell them and get it over with. We don't want them to have any control over the market, and a holding of that size has the ability to move the market whenever they choose to do so

You are certainly welcome to try and educate the Bitcointalk members who don't know that law enforcement is legally required to sell seized assets including Bitcoin.

you can spot a drug user/dealer because they want the seized bitcoins deleted as some form of "stick it to the man"

you can spot a true bitcoiner when they say
'dont ruin bitcoins frangibility by changing the code, leave it as is and stop crying like babies'
'if the government sell the coins then they are saying that bitcoins are a legal asset that can be used'

all those sticking it to the man are just shooting yourself in the foot.

In the event that DPR/Ross Ulbright wins the case the funds would likely be returned to him regardless.

Yeah, it is kind of pointless, isn't it?

There is some merit to the saying, "Never wrestle with a pig. He just enjoys it and you both get dirty." I like to think that most people (even a lot of the people here) have a brain in their head but I've learned to never go more than two or three rounds with certain kinds of people, y'know?

I bet they wont care at all... this is a big place with a lot of procedure and filter.. mails are filtered many ways (humans \ software) before any can arrive to the desk of someone who would be in position to forward the point to another someone who have a little influence on some that can take a decision... IMO, the only effect that writing to them about BTC can have is to tag everyone who wrote an email in THE database, as being a possible 4ctiivist or t3rrror1st..

If anyone wish to write to this entity about BTC should use every possible precotion to remain annonymous !

was my 2 satoshis  ;)

good math, but sorry, those are official figures.. if you include IOU notes on social security and many other IOU.. like the foreing country gold that is supposed to be in new york..  they real U$ debt if far beyond 80 trillion !  (source : Agora Financial)

like for the CPI, the entire world is being fooled by those "official numbers"...do your reasearsh, think by yourself, the whole system is on they verge of an inimaginable colapse.. Im quite surprised that all this bluff still old... the day the dollars value of Bitcoin is no more interesting is not so far..   soon bitcoins will be valuable as a mean of exchange for goods, without a $ price tag attached to. 

Get a grip, all this is about to explode hard !

personal opinions here..    do your search if you want !

They need to sell the coins because of how the law is written

yes for sure, totally agree