Bitcoin Forum

Elevator Pitch

The internet is a great network for delivering digital goods, but we don’t quite have such a system for physical goods. We do have major distribution centers that physical goods reroute through, like data through a hub, but the roads, the “wires” that deliver those goods, are horribly inefficient. My idea is for Maglev-based, on-demand, super-fast, fully automated transport lines between major distribution centers of major retailers. The initial market will be a large retailer, like Wal-Mart, but once the lines are expanded throughout a larger region, using Wal-Mart’s automated centers the system could supplement or replace any goods delivery system for any outside client, even personal package delivery, by having packages bounce from hub to hub. This system will be much faster than any other delivery system (Maglev trains travel at over 350mph), is fully automated, not subject to driver fatigue or delays, is very cheap to power and maintain, and can be much smaller and cheaper to build than roads and current train lines.

Specifics

My idea involves my new patented Maglev technology, which allows trains to move on special tracks very quickly without contact and very few moving parts. I got my idea after learning more in depth about Wal-Mart’s fully automated distribution centers, which, with my IT background, reminded me of a digital network, with the centers working like network hubs. My idea is to supplement those hubs with “wires” for physical goods, using the Maglev platform. It would work like a conveyor system between distribution centers that can quickly transport merchandise across the country, relaying it from center to center. The distribution centers are already fully automated and can move packages within the center from one train to another. The Maglev system itself is fully automated and very efficient. Due to that, this idea can be a paradigm shift from the idea that we need bigger and bigger trucks, trains, and ships to transport cargo efficiently. Instead, using this system it would be possible to use small, individual train cars that carry boxes ranging from a refrigerator to a car, and are sent out onto the automated track only when needed, with only the amount that is needed. The initial development could be in central USA, where two distribution centers are separated by a large amount of desert or other cheap land.

Maglev Technology

The MAGLEV system to be used is one invented by my grandfather Dr. Tozoni (Patent No. 8047138). It uses permanent magnets on the train cars, and steel and aluminum rails. The system is entirely mechanically self-stabilizing, requiring no electronic or computer components. Due to the mechanical simplicity of this system, all of this system’s parameters can be calculated mathematically, and thus it can be customized to any requirements using computer software before construction even begins. I have been able to use a computer program to calculate costs for this design. A single train car able to lift 10 tons will cost approximately $89,000. A single mile of rail will cost approximately $5,000,000. This cost is comparable to a new transport truck (estimated cost of around $80,000), and is cheaper than road construction (one mile of road can cost as much as $15mil). A small scale test model will cost $370,000 to develop. Once constructed, the train cars are fully automated, able to move at speeds of up to 350Mph, and adjust speeds without any outside input. The power required for this train is lower than that of wheeled trains, and this system uses regenerative braking, providing for even more power savings.

Very, very ambitions project. I doubt it would succeed, even if a big corporation tried it.

- Is this actually a problem? How much money can a Wall-Mart store save by using your system instead of their current system?
- Getting approval for this from governments will be a nightmare, especially with automated vehicles. Every town you have to go through will object to your rails.
- Why hasn't anyone done this already if it's so good?
- Your scheme is more like traditional rail than road transport. But traditional rail traffic has been declining (AFAIK). If businesses decreasingly value traditional rail's improved economy and speed, your system may not appeal to them.

...since such a thing is so specialized, and wouldn't be useable for everyone.

Very, very ambitions project. I doubt it would succeed, even if a big corporation tried it.

- Is this actually a problem? How much money can a Wall-Mart store save by using your system instead of their current system?

- Getting approval for this from governments will be a nightmare, especially with automated vehicles. Every town you have to go through will object to your rails.

- Why hasn't anyone done this already if it's so good?

- Your scheme is more like traditional rail than road transport. But traditional rail traffic has been declining (AFAIK). If businesses decreasingly value traditional rail's improved economy and speed, your system may not appeal to them.

Not only that, but the corporation(s) that implement such a thing would be paying to develop the networks themselves, instead of the governments building superhighway systems for them - since such a thing is so specialized, and wouldn't be useable for everyone.

Also, more specifics on the technology please. My understanding is that permanent magnet based Maglev systems have not been utilized because of the excessive size and weight of the magnets themselves not being economical for use in such an application. How are you solving this?

aluminum will enable a field.

Where are you using Alum ?

Sorry.. just found the diagram..

Very very very very very very very very expensive..

does this use lenz's law ?

Aluminum is wrapped around the outside and inside of the [ and ] shaped steel rails in the picture above.

Lenz's law ?  Are you using it, familiar with it

Not sure about lenz's law. Lorentz force, yes. As magnets pass by the steel rails, they generate a current in the steel, which creates eddy currents in the aluminum screens. Those opposing currents "squeeze" the magnetic flux in the steel rails into the rails themselves, not allowing them to escape around the steel, and thus supersaturate the steel rails.

Not sure about lenz's law. Lorentz force, yes. As magnets pass by the steel rails, they generate a current in the steel, which creates eddy currents in the aluminum screens. Those opposing currents "squeeze" the magnetic flux in the steel rails into the rails themselves, not allowing them to escape around the steel, and thus supersaturate the steel rails.

One question, are we helping you do your homework?

Further reading: http://www.usmaglevcoalition.com/projects.php

The poles induced on the aluminum would be a problem and counteract the effect your looking for.

I dont think aluminum is the missing link your looking for

Ok, but industrial regulations the DOT and unions are going to kill you before you ever get off the ground. Have you done any of this research?

Ok, but industrial regulations the DOT and unions are going to kill you before you ever get off the ground. Have you done any of this research?

Living in China I have taken the (AFAIA) only commercial Maglev commuter train (it goes between the airport and the city in Shanghai).

The cost of that rather short line was so expensive that no other Maglev line has been constructed here (and the other high speed trains run nearly as smoothly and not that much slower).

The cost is not due to the trains but the tracks (the accuracy required for Maglev tracks is much greater than for other high speed trains).

You are talking about something that will involve a LOT of government interaction. That involvement will put you in the line of fire of inspectors and require you to comply with building code in multiple jurisdictions. You will be required to deal with unions in order to satisfy government factions and DOT regulations, again, across multiple jurisdictions. That’s a killer for really big business and they already have the game in play.

How practical would it be to incorporate your idea with the bloom box? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcLq3B8C5sk

I'm assuming that this system is operated by electricity from off the grid. If that's the case, then eliminate the grid completely by having bloom box units either stationed along the line, part of the cargo container, or both.

~Bruno (not Bruno Edison)

The cost issue with the Chinese system (electromagnet based Transrapid) was that they built it on sandy swampy land, which ended up costing WAY more than necessary.

Yes that is correct, however, it is interesting that the high speed train from Beijing to Tianjin (built years later) which is built on extremely flat and dry land was not done with Maglev (but does run at around 400kmh).

I think that if it was more cost effective then the Chinese would have chosen Maglev instead.

I don't understand, but I think you are thinking that there is only one kind of maglev, or that all maglev costs the same?

You are talking about something that will involve a LOT of government interaction. That involvement will put you in the line of fire of inspectors and require you to comply with building code in multiple jurisdictions. You will be required to deal with unions in order to satisfy government factions and DOT regulations, again, across multiple jurisdictions. That’s a killer for really big business and they already have the game in play.

Here's a suggestion - pneumatic tubes.

I'm serious. You have a bunch of very large pneumatic tubes. Insert your cargo pod, low pressure in front, higher pressure behind. Use the maglev to reduce friction, braking can add power to the air turbines. If you want you could evacuate the air and add any low friction gas you want.

Someone did something like this but without the maglev a century or so ago. Or maybe I was just reading some steampunk. Anyway, this is very well understood tech and might make things a bit easier at the start.

This sounds really ambitious.

Why are you focused only on cargo transportation? Can't the same technology eventually transport passengers? If you are able to build truck-sized "trains", can't you make the equivalent of buses as well?

I wonder how smaller can you get... it would be awesome if one day our ordinary family cars were able to hop on some rails and run on super-speeds. :D (btw, google tells me 350mph ~ 563kph... that's fucking fast! I don't think there's any commercial train in the world running at such speed, is there?)

(btw, google tells me 350mph ~ 563kph... that's fucking fast! I don't think there's any commercial train in the world running at such speed, is there?)

The best place to present a project of this magnitude for scrutiny would be a think tank at a major university.  

I am no expert in the technology or different variations thereof but I do know that China is building high speed railway like no other country on earth so if you can provide a more cost effective means of doing it then you should be doing it there.

And then DHS as well...gotta stop the terrorists from bombing our rail systems.  Not sure if you've considered the cost to secure the line.

Here's a suggestion - pneumatic tubes.

Why are you focused only on cargo transportation? Can't the same technology eventually transport passengers? If you are able to build truck-sized "trains", can't you make the equivalent of buses as well?

I wonder how smaller can you get... it would be awesome if one day our ordinary family cars were able to hop on some rails and run on super-speeds. :D (btw, google tells me 350mph ~ 563kph... that's fucking fast! I don't think there's any commercial train in the world running at such speed, is there?)

Your basic idea isn't new. Francis Bellamy wrote about it in 1887 sans the maglev. Germany has been working on this awhile too. http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/02/a-world-without.html (http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/02/a-world-without.html)
The Venus Project's Jacque Fresco has designs for high speed maglev through vacuum tubes for speeds approaching 6000 mph. The Zeitgeist Movement also has many such designs.

I would love to hear Jacque Fresco's design for suspending a train in the air using nothing but magnetism. What type of maglev system did he design, and how does it work?

As a former Interstate truck driver, I am 100% for an underground freight transport system. I am not familiar with the engineered systems out there. Jacque Fresco is a 94 y/o industrial designer, not an engineer. I don't think he has specific schematics. Naval rail guns achieve artillery velocities, so it must be possible.

I would prefer to have this be above ground to save on tunneling though, which is another reason I am pushing for "small."

It doesn't really matter where the power here comes from. There is also no power on the trains themselves, since they are mostly just chunks of steel and magnets. Using bloomboxes would be possible, but would add more complexity to a project that you can just plug into whatever nearby source of power is the cheapest.

I'm off to bed. Will reply to more questions tomorrow.

"Small" also cuts down on the surface area exposed to oncoming air mass, resulting in greater speed potentials.

With an aerodynamic shape.

What was the maximum gross weight being transported, again?

The politics of making that a reality would bog it down into a painful misery.

Besides 3d printing may do away with shipping a lot of stuff. Imagine local 3D printing shops that have the raw materials and you design what you want from home, they print it and you pick it up and pay for it.

We are on the verge of some new and very disruptive technologies impacting the masses.  Nanotech being one. The significance is not realized by most but it hasn't gone unnoticed by defense industry and others.

But maybe your maglev could be used for moving raw materials.

Luckily, 3D printers are a very long way away from printing electronics, televisions, blenders, and refrigerators. It'll happen eventually though.

I urge you to look into 3D printing a little further. It's not that new. My point is that we are not a long way away at all. There's another name that it is called but I can't remember the term. I think it's additive engineering (as opposed to removal engineering).
They are doing human organs, engine parts and I've seen intricate items like a timepiece.

I'm quite aware of 3D printing, and have followed it since it started with modified ink jet printers years ago. How long do you think it will be until we can print something like an iPad at home from scratch?

The Pitch.
The internet is a great way to deliver digital goods, bouncing data along wires from hub to hub. Wouldn’t it be great if we had a similar system for physical goods? Turns out we already have the hubs – Wal-Mart’s distribution centers are an automated technological wonder – but the “wires” connecting these centers are slow, inefficient roads manned by cumbersome, expensive trucks. Our ultra-high-speed transport system will connect the already established distribution centers, with direct, fully automated, efficient, and cheap to operate lines.

Product.
Currently, to transport goods to distribution centers, trucks have to drive from one to the other by roads and highways. This method is slow, and susceptible to traffic issues, driver fatigue, and high costs of maintenance, fuel, and taxes. We (Tozoni AMLEV) propose to design and build customized high-speed transport lines between distribution centers. The system will consist of small, fully-automated cargo platforms, only big enough to carry a large refrigerator or a 3,000lb aircraft shipping container. The platforms will be gliding on the track using magnetic levitation technology, flying at 350 miles per hour, completely automatically. Once reaching their destination distribution centers, the cargo will be automatically offloaded and routed through the distribution center’s internal conveyor system to its next destination. Once multiple distribution centers are connected, the cargo will be able to bounce from center to center, being transported over vast distances cheaply, very quickly and completely automatically.

Value Proposition.
Tozoni AMLEV system is cheap to design due to using analytical calculations for all of its components (all aspects can be fully simulated on computers instead of on physical models). The system is also light and cheap to build, due to it being fully automated by design, as opposed to relying on complex control systems. Since the cargo platforms do not touch the track, and very few moving components are involved, there is very little maintenance required for the system. The system is also very energy efficient, using only electricity for propulsion, without friction, of small light platforms. Since the platforms can reach speeds of 350mph and beyond, it makes it possible to quickly ship only products that are needed, instead of waiting for a large truck to load up on everything that may be necessary in the direction it is going. Using smaller cargo platforms also means it is possible to use much lighter and cheaper track construction, including possibility of stacking tracks to reduce the land footprint.

Competitive Advantage.
Tozoni AMLEV system, including both suspension and propulsion components, is fully patented. Dr. Tozoni has many years of experience in mechanical and electrical engineering, was the Head of the Department of Electrodynamics at the Cybernetics Institute of the Academy of Science, USSR, and has published many books on mathematics and electromagnetics. The Tozoni AMLEV levitation system differs from all other levitation systems in that it is based on attractive force of permanent magnets, that all aspects of it can be fully analytically calculated and designed, as opposed to relying on trial and error, and is suspended automatically, without need for monitoring and control systems. The system is also fairly well known, and has a team of scientists and engineers very interested in being involved with or helping with its construction.

The Marketing Plan.
The Immediate goal is to build a single transport line between two distribution centers separated by desert or farm land (to keep the costs of land down). (Example: Wal-Mart distribution Center in Chyenne, Wyoming to one in North Platte, Nebraska, 200 miles down center of highway). Our target segment is any market interested in transporting small to medium physical goods. Initially, the system will target retail distribution centers, allowing the first two connected centers to operate as one. This means cargo trucks will only be required to deliver their goods to the distribution center closest to their point of origin, instead of having to go to both centers. Eventually, once we connect more distribution centers, the interconnected automated network should be able to support delivery of all of the retail goods among the centers, and the center operator should be able to take on outside business, such as mail and parcel delivery, or any delivery of physical goods.

We believe that despite the high initial cost of construction, the finished product, with its very high speed and extremely low operating cost, will be able to easily compete with existing delivery methods, and make up the cost of construction through high profit margins.

The Financial Plan.
Tozoni AMLEV will need approximately $400,000 to build the initial proof-of-concept test model within 6 months of initial funding. The system design and parameters have already been analytically calculated, and the initial funding will go to consulting services for Dr. Friedman of Drexel University (he is a student, of a student, of Dr. Tozoni), and for engineering and manufacturing of the test model by Oceaneering Inc., a local MD engineering firm familiar with the project. Once the physical test model verifies the analytical calculation results, a further $500,000 will be required to design and engineer the platforms themselves. During that period, we will scout locations of potential distribution centers 100+ miles apart, secure required land, and negotiate deals with the distribution center operators. In the first half of 2013 we will build a 2 mile test track, preferably on the location where the final track will be used. The system costs approximately $4MM per mile of track, and approximately $90,000 per platform, although we think we may be able to reduce costs by using cheaper support materials (estimates are based on a 30ton cargo container system requiring heavy concrete support). During that time, funding will also be needed for final design tests, which should be completed by the end of 2013 or earlier. Construction of the finished line should be completed by mid-to-end of 2015. At initial launch of the system, the system is expected to be used at near capacity, working as both a bridge between two distribution centers, and a bridge between two parts of the country (trucks can save money by dropping goods off at one center, and have them be picked up by another truck at the next center, even if the final destination for the goods isn’t one of the two centers). After proof of concept and a strong positive revenue stream, a portion of the revenues will be used to secure and develop lines between other distribution centers.

Dingman resources will be used, along with Maryland Technology Commercialization funding, to set up a lab at the University of Maryland, where students will participate in further developing the system, including building the initial test model. Part of the funding for the main project will be raised from the government’s technology research and green initiative programs, and the rest through private funding. We also expect to get local government tax subsidies for providing a system that will ease traffic on their roads.

Drunk driving creates a total loss of $9 billion per year or 16 cents per mile driven in the U.S.

A mile of freeway through an urban area costs approximately $39 million, while a mile of freeway through a rural area costs approximately $8 million.

http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,7-151-14011-28076--F,00.html

Bump because I see Rassah is online and I would be interested in an update.

Is there a loss over distance, electrically?
Are the rails levitation susceptible to interference induced currents generated by something like solar magnetic storms, static electrical fields, an EMP, or microwave radiation?
Is it possible to discharge a rail intentionally or unintentionally?

Another point, the entire line would be limited in acceleration time, 0-350mph, by the most acceleration sensitive items. A tomatoe may only handle an accelration of 0-350mph in 15 seconds while a refrigerator could withstand accelration from 0-350mph in 7 seconds. Therefore, the entire lines shipping time doubles by adding tomatoes to the shipping line.

If you had multiple load and unload points in between start of line and end of line, how would you handle shifting cars, or cargo, on and off of tracks?

How would you handle track length, if your not shifting cars off?
The track would have to be 3x the distance of the actual start and end transportation points.
A loop would be more efficient I guess, but would that work with the electrical systerm in the rails?

How about Canada's logging, mining industry? Or even there great expanse of wild from east to west?

Playing the investor without reading other posts: might be redundant
I’m not convinced that this will make me money. Why should I invest my money in fancy trains(on stilts?)for cargo? will the advantage gained be really worth the billions it will cost to set this up? Why will you succeed where many others have failed? Why should I believe your numbers? magnets->rare earths;how will this affect the world market/price ?

after reading other user posts:
“following issues will be eliminated: most maintenance costs.” sceptical about that claim. you will have to pay for everything since it’s private property. after some years you would be in a constant replacement cycle repairing tracks and everything else. whats the expected lifetime of tracks? 30 years?

I would like to read the actual business case when you have it since I like the idea of maglev and it’s difficult to work with just a few sentences.
most important! will I get some free company shares for my awesome input when this takes off?   :)