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Title: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: KingOfSports on July 07, 2014, 04:53:24 AM So basically every dice site that has an investment option, if you win or find a flaw in THEIR PROGRAMMING they reverse the bets and you lose. Just look at PRC. Look at that other one that ran off with 250+ BTC.
Simply put, as a player if you win big, you don't win big. They cancel your bets or find some way to say they were wrong and you 100% definitely knew you had an edge (you can't just be lucky) and thus you lose all you're winnings. SO THUS, DONT play on sites with house investments. Honestly, take it from my own experiences (5 BTC to 75 BTC to 0 BTC in one session) DONT DICE AT ALL. And definitely don't dice on Primedice, the most rigged site ever (yeah you still havent changed the problem i pointed out a year ago in your "fair" system) If you must dice, I'd say coinroll.it. But again, I don't dice anymore and neither should you... Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: KingOfSports on July 07, 2014, 04:55:03 AM Oh and I'd say Just-Dice would be the way to go, however they shut down. But at least every payout was immediate or at least semi-immediate and there was no reversing rolls (except the one situation...)
Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: Salmon1989 on July 07, 2014, 06:57:43 AM Look at that other one that ran off with 250+ BTC. You mean Everydice? And definitely don't dice on Primedice, the most rigged site ever (yeah you still havent changed the problem i pointed out a year ago in your "fair" system) Would you mind elaborating it a bit? Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: BRE on July 07, 2014, 07:02:52 AM house always win ..... :P
and maybe we should ask if all betting site was provably fair or probably fair ;D Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: dooglus on July 07, 2014, 08:40:16 AM So basically every dice site that has an investment option, if you win or find a flaw in THEIR PROGRAMMING they reverse the bets and you lose. Just look at PRC. Look at that other one that ran off with 250+ BTC. Simply put, as a player if you win big, you don't win big. They cancel your bets or find some way to say they were wrong and you 100% definitely knew you had an edge (you can't just be lucky) and thus you lose all you're winnings. SO THUS, DONT play on sites with house investments. Why would you say such things? Just-Dice ran for over a year and saw some players win huge amounts. Just-Dice never reversed a single bet other than the ones made by nakowa with coins that we accidentally left in his account after he made a manual withdrawal. Players get lucky all the time, and a reputable site won't reverse their bets when they do. It's true that it seems like very few sites are capable of making a working copy of the Just-Dice model, but that doesn't mean the concept itself is flawed. Whether or not a site has an "invest" feature, it's pretty likely the site has investors. Do you think coinroll is bankrolled entirely by its owner? Coinroll almost certainly has "investors" providing the bankroll, to whom the site owners are accountable. Just because they don't offer the opportunity to the public doesn't mean they don't have investors to keep happy, so I don't see why you would make this distinction. A better rule of thumb would be "don't trust untrustworthy sites" - but that's much trickier to apply. Edit: Oh and I'd say Just-Dice would be the way to go, however they shut down. But at least every payout was immediate or at least semi-immediate and there was no reversing rolls (except the one situation...) I just read your 2nd post. It contradicts your first post. Why say "don't play on sites with 'invest' feature" and then go on to say "JD is the way to go", when JD has the 'invest' feature, and in fact invented it? Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: shitaifan2013 on July 07, 2014, 08:45:57 AM well, it seems bitmixer runs a signature campaign ;D
Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: sherbyspark on July 07, 2014, 09:04:00 AM PRCDice is new. And just like any business there can be problems or errors.
Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: victorhing on July 07, 2014, 09:09:02 AM We don't have any investment option. What we do have is slick, user-friendly interface and great sound effects :) https://coinroyale.com/dice
Many of our players prefer our Dice game than other Dice sites because of the better user experience. Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: zimmah on July 07, 2014, 01:48:46 PM investment or not, doesn´t matter.
The biggest site ever (just-dice) had investment. The second biggest (primedice) did not have investment I think sites with investment can be great because more people benefit from it, and sites that do not allow investment are run by 1 or 2 people only and only they profit. Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: Peter882 on July 07, 2014, 01:56:45 PM well, it seems bitmixer runs a signature campaign ;D Yeah, it does lol. :D https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=425135.0 Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: FastBluff on July 07, 2014, 06:58:19 PM https://fastbluff.com doesn't have investments yet, but this is keeping our users from betting alot, and actually is one of the most requested features.
Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: bigbigdog on July 08, 2014, 08:33:43 PM which dice do you recommend that accepts dogecoin?
Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: dogedice.me on July 08, 2014, 08:46:43 PM which dice do you recommend that accepts dogecoin? https://www.dogedice.me/ ;) Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: insulting_robot on July 08, 2014, 09:21:19 PM > ...
> this is the insulting robot > the insulting robot never understood why human dice at all > why are humans fascinated by the random responses of a betting site? > to avoid any programming and fairness issues bet on real world events that are both more interesting and verifiable by everyone Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: bigbigdog on July 08, 2014, 09:24:14 PM which dice do you recommend that accepts dogecoin? https://www.dogedice.me/ ;) Thanks! Will check it out Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: galbros on July 09, 2014, 12:21:21 AM So basically every dice site that has an investment option, if you win or find a flaw in THEIR PROGRAMMING they reverse the bets and you lose. Just look at PRC. Look at that other one that ran off with 250+ BTC. Simply put, as a player if you win big, you don't win big. They cancel your bets or find some way to say they were wrong and you 100% definitely knew you had an edge (you can't just be lucky) and thus you lose all you're winnings. SO THUS, DONT play on sites with house investments. Why would you say such things? Just-Dice ran for over a year and saw some players win huge amounts. Just-Dice never reversed a single bet other than the ones made by nakowa with coins that we accidentally left in his account after he made a manual withdrawal. Players get lucky all the time, and a reputable site won't reverse their bets when they do. It's true that it seems like very few sites are capable of making a working copy of the Just-Dice model, but that doesn't mean the concept itself is flawed. Whether or not a site has an "invest" feature, it's pretty likely the site has investors. Do you think coinroll is bankrolled entirely by its owner? Coinroll almost certainly has "investors" providing the bankroll, to whom the site owners are accountable. Just because they don't offer the opportunity to the public doesn't mean they don't have investors to keep happy, so I don't see why you would make this distinction. A better rule of thumb would be "don't trust untrustworthy sites" - but that's much trickier to apply. Edit: Oh and I'd say Just-Dice would be the way to go, however they shut down. But at least every payout was immediate or at least semi-immediate and there was no reversing rolls (except the one situation...) I just read your 2nd post. It contradicts your first post. Why say "don't play on sites with 'invest' feature" and then go on to say "JD is the way to go", when JD has the 'invest' feature, and in fact invented it? KoS, I really hope you'll respond to dooglus's post. Why do you think a public invest feature has any relation to how rigged the site is? The most rigged site I ever played on, it didn't even claim to be provably fair, didn't allow public investment. Also, it would be great if you linked to your critique of primedice and why it is the "most rigged site ever." While it is clearly rigged 1% in the house favor, it seems way better than many others I've played on. I agree that JD was the gold standard for dice sites. I hope dooglus can get it up somewhere where he is comfortable. I also agree that if you are not having fun you should not be playing rigged games for money. Good Luck! Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: KingOfSports on July 09, 2014, 01:12:44 AM So basically every dice site that has an investment option, if you win or find a flaw in THEIR PROGRAMMING they reverse the bets and you lose. Just look at PRC. Look at that other one that ran off with 250+ BTC. Simply put, as a player if you win big, you don't win big. They cancel your bets or find some way to say they were wrong and you 100% definitely knew you had an edge (you can't just be lucky) and thus you lose all you're winnings. SO THUS, DONT play on sites with house investments. Why would you say such things? Just-Dice ran for over a year and saw some players win huge amounts. Just-Dice never reversed a single bet other than the ones made by nakowa with coins that we accidentally left in his account after he made a manual withdrawal. Players get lucky all the time, and a reputable site won't reverse their bets when they do. It's true that it seems like very few sites are capable of making a working copy of the Just-Dice model, but that doesn't mean the concept itself is flawed. Whether or not a site has an "invest" feature, it's pretty likely the site has investors. Do you think coinroll is bankrolled entirely by its owner? Coinroll almost certainly has "investors" providing the bankroll, to whom the site owners are accountable. Just because they don't offer the opportunity to the public doesn't mean they don't have investors to keep happy, so I don't see why you would make this distinction. A better rule of thumb would be "don't trust untrustworthy sites" - but that's much trickier to apply. Edit: Oh and I'd say Just-Dice would be the way to go, however they shut down. But at least every payout was immediate or at least semi-immediate and there was no reversing rolls (except the one situation...) I just read your 2nd post. It contradicts your first post. Why say "don't play on sites with 'invest' feature" and then go on to say "JD is the way to go", when JD has the 'invest' feature, and in fact invented it? KoS, I really hope you'll respond to dooglus's post. Why do you think a public invest feature has any relation to how rigged the site is? The most rigged site I ever played on, it didn't even claim to be provably fair, didn't allow public investment. Also, it would be great if you linked to your critique of primedice and why it is the "most rigged site ever." While it is clearly rigged 1% in the house favor, it seems way better than many others I've played on. I agree that JD was the gold standard for dice sites. I hope dooglus can get it up somewhere where he is comfortable. I also agree that if you are not having fun you should not be playing rigged games for money. Good Luck! As for why primedice is rigged, it has been pointing out multiple times that there is a flaw in the way primedice generates its seed. Instead of having a seed that is locked in all day, the seeds of everything changes EVERY roll. Thus, if you are someone who never changes the client seed, primedice can easily rig all 3 seeds to roll a certain way if you always bet low or always bet high or alternate. Betting patterns are easy to see and interpret. When this was pointed out to Stunna, many people argued for change. Stunna said it would be changed. However, stunna announced couple months back that this change was not going to happen actually. So thus, if you fail to change the client seed, you're rolls are not provably fair and can easily be changed to being a loser. Its interesting too - the only "site is rigged" or whatever posts that show up are always of an incredible unluckiness over multiple streaks on primedice. Those users generally always go high or low and aren't randoming their selections. You don't see threads for coinroll.it or just-dice rigged ever when they were just as popular a year ago and it makes me and others wonder why. There was a multi page thread on how primedice is not provably fair. Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: wang_yan on July 09, 2014, 01:46:18 AM So basically every dice site that has an investment option, if you win or find a flaw in THEIR PROGRAMMING they reverse the bets and you lose. Just look at PRC. Look at that other one that ran off with 250+ BTC. Simply put, as a player if you win big, you don't win big. They cancel your bets or find some way to say they were wrong and you 100% definitely knew you had an edge (you can't just be lucky) and thus you lose all you're winnings. SO THUS, DONT play on sites with house investments. Honestly, take it from my own experiences (5 BTC to 75 BTC to 0 BTC in one session) DONT DICE AT ALL. And definitely don't dice on Primedice, the most rigged site ever (yeah you still havent changed the problem i pointed out a year ago in your "fair" system) If you must dice, I'd say coinroll.it. But again, I don't dice anymore and neither should you... You are right. The even worse part is that, in a house with investment option, there could be some inside job, like what JD did with the nakowa account. Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: dooglus on July 09, 2014, 08:41:52 AM The even worse part is that, in a house with investment option, there could be some inside job, like what JD did with the nakowa account. Two things: 1) this wouldn't affect players at all - this thread is about "don't play on sites with 'investment'" but it doesn't make any sense 2) nakowa wasn't an "inside job" Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: Dannie on July 09, 2014, 11:13:54 AM The even worse part is that, in a house with investment option, there could be some inside job, like what JD did with the nakowa account. Two things: 1) this wouldn't affect players at all - this thread is about "don't play on sites with 'investment'" but it doesn't make any sense 2) nakowa wasn't an "inside job" You can never argue with the conspiracy theorists, as you have no way to prove "it is not an inside job". :) Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: wang_yan on July 09, 2014, 11:20:12 AM The even worse part is that, in a house with investment option, there could be some inside job, like what JD did with the nakowa account. Two things: 1) this wouldn't affect players at all - this thread is about "don't play on sites with 'investment'" but it doesn't make any sense 2) nakowa wasn't an "inside job" I'm happy to hear that's not an inside job. So, do you mind explaining which part you edited in this reply you made? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289533.msg3101890#msg3101890 If you cannot remember, I have a screenshot for that. Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: wang_yan on July 09, 2014, 11:23:47 AM The even worse part is that, in a house with investment option, there could be some inside job, like what JD did with the nakowa account. Two things: 1) this wouldn't affect players at all - this thread is about "don't play on sites with 'investment'" but it doesn't make any sense 2) nakowa wasn't an "inside job" You can never argue with the conspiracy theorists, as you have no way to prove "it is not an inside job". :) You'd better make your judgement when dooglus answers my question: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238613.msg7745220#msg7745220 Suppose he dares. Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: Dannie on July 09, 2014, 11:46:59 AM The even worse part is that, in a house with investment option, there could be some inside job, like what JD did with the nakowa account. Two things: 1) this wouldn't affect players at all - this thread is about "don't play on sites with 'investment'" but it doesn't make any sense 2) nakowa wasn't an "inside job" You can never argue with the conspiracy theorists, as you have no way to prove "it is not an inside job". :) You'd better make your judgement when dooglus answers my question: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238613.msg7745220#msg7745220 Suppose he dares. Okay no problem, I will check the JD thread later tonight, to see any update on the incident. :) Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: dooglus on July 09, 2014, 11:27:54 PM I'm happy to hear that's not an inside job. So, do you mind explaining which part you edited in this reply you made? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289533.msg3101890#msg3101890 If you cannot remember, I have a screenshot for that. I think that's the post where I replaced some chinese characters with latin ones. Is that what you're referring to? Title: Re: If you must Dice, do it on one without an investment option, you get scammed Post by: galbros on July 10, 2014, 02:47:06 AM Let me reword my post...I think just-dice was the best site to play with if you HAD to dice. I lost a ton when dicing in the far past so I would advise NO ONE to dice. Now that just-dice is gone, there is no site with investment left to be trusted. One, any site owner can go and slowly drain the bankroll on his own. Doog could've done that himself for 100 coins over the lifetime of just-dice for example and no one would notice 100 coins missing or suspect anything. If doog could do it, anyone could (doubt doog did though). As for why primedice is rigged, it has been pointing out multiple times that there is a flaw in the way primedice generates its seed. Instead of having a seed that is locked in all day, the seeds of everything changes EVERY roll. Thus, if you are someone who never changes the client seed, primedice can easily rig all 3 seeds to roll a certain way if you always bet low or always bet high or alternate. Betting patterns are easy to see and interpret. When this was pointed out to Stunna, many people argued for change. Stunna said it would be changed. However, stunna announced couple months back that this change was not going to happen actually. So thus, if you fail to change the client seed, you're rolls are not provably fair and can easily be changed to being a loser. Its interesting too - the only "site is rigged" or whatever posts that show up are always of an incredible unluckiness over multiple streaks on primedice. Those users generally always go high or low and aren't randoming their selections. You don't see threads for coinroll.it or just-dice rigged ever when they were just as popular a year ago and it makes me and others wonder why. There was a multi page thread on how primedice is not provably fair. Thanks KoS, I appreciate your thoughtful reply especially the back story on primedice. I can see your point. Not sure I agree on your last point though about only PD getting accused of being rigged, that seems to be common and even this thread has now been hijacked by someone accusing dooglus of cheating! As you yourself have noted, you can lose dicing even on the most reputable of sites and it is just human nature to want to lash out accordingly. Thanks again and good luck! |