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Ok si I want a front wheel drive car with a little balls leaning towards
focus st and mazda speed3

Which should I get

the focus handles better but the speed3 has more raw attitude imo

don't know shit about turbos etc so what do you car nuts think?

ford are reliable and the st handles very well plenty of power and you can use every single hp. mazdas are mazdas. id go with the ford. but i own a ford mondeo mk2. never let me down and its 14 years young and 120,000miles wiser. still holds its own against most cars in its class. and beats any car merc or bmw in the snow

Mazdaspeed 3. The Veloster isn't built as well and the visibility is terrible. The Focus ST is probably comparable, but I prefer the fit and feel of Mazdas vs. Fords.

You shouldn't need to worry about the turbocharger; they all have ball-bearings and computer controls nowadays. If you're the type of person who wants extra dials on your dashboard, invest in a mechanical boost gauge (they're the most accurate kind) and an oil-pressure gauge, so you can tell if the intake is leaking boost or if something is wrong with the oil system. (an exhaust temperature gauge is also sometimes useful, because they can tell if the hot side of the turbo is overheating.) I never had problems with the turbo in my Passat 1.8t, but the oil pressure gauge did save my ass one cold day when the oil-cooler blew a gasket and I lost oil pressure. The gauge notified me a good 30 seconds before the Check Engine light started yelling at me, and that gave me time to get off the highway and park the car.

Thanks for the info.

The speed3 was a he'll of a ride I mean I couldn't believe a car that price could put my head back on the head rest like that. The turbo is a
bit scary for me having not owned 1 before so the gages seem like a good idea for some peace of mind for pretty low cost.

Focus an 3 have the same chassis. Mazda has the better seating position. Buddy of mine just bought one a few months ago and is getting 40mpg and doing well at the autoX. Veloster is a for sure no.

Turbos are pretty reliable nowadays, especially if you leave the ECU programming stock and you don't modify any of the pressure sensors. But it's great fun to drive a car that, the faster it goes, the faster it *wants* to go. Positive feedback loops are endlessly entertaining.

I haven't checked out the Mazda, but have you considered the new Mini? I liked it a good bit more than the Focus .Both the std Cooper and the Cooper S for 2014 are turbo. S has a two liter, and the base model has a three cylinder turbo...

Have they fixed the goofy gauge locations on the new Mini, or are they still in the center of the dashboard? It's about time they gave up on that little bit of retro BS.

Best overall car is the focus st and its not even close .I've thoroughly enjoyed racing mine, day cruises, people carrying, etc. It's just fantastic fun and unmatched performance for 20k .

I really like the Focus st, clean and modern.
Nice interior and good with fuel ( economical )

Yeah i loved the speed3 and focus st but i can't make up my mind.The focus seemed to have a little less raw power but seemed to
have better suspension torque control and larger power band just more refined maybethe mazda just has more whack ya in the balls punch bu5 a narrow band of power and torque steer like a mother Fuckers compared to focus just my opinion and my opinion doesn't mean much cause i admit to knowing nothing about these front wheel drive turbo cars .

Odd. The MS3 has a limited-slip diff, but I suppose it's possible the friction elements in the diff still need to wear-in a bit before they'll really grip properly and control torque-steer under hard acceleration. It apparently uses an older style of LSD than the Focus does.

Anyway, here's an article addressing your dilemma: http://www.autoguide.com/car-compari...eed3-2621.html

Overall, it sounds like the MS3 is made with older drivetrain tech that doesn't save you from your own foolishness as effectively, but is also less likely to stop working suddenly because of a sensor malfunction. As for the understeer the article complains about, you can probably fix that by just getting better tires. Mazda always cheaps-out on their stock tires; I call them training wheels, because they let you experience how the car handles at the limit of its traction while you're still going at a slow enough speed that you won't kill yourself.

I bought my MS3 in January last year and have 26.5K miles on it now. I haven't actually driven the Focus ST so I can't offer any direct comparison points, but I can recommend the MS3 without reservation. It has been everything I wanted in a car and I have very few complaints. Like you, apman, I liked the MS3's raucous nature over the ST's more refined way and I haven't regretted my choice one bit. My MS3 is my daily driver and puts a grin on my face every damn day, nearly every minute I'm in it. It's taken me on one longish road trip (1200mi. round trip) and it was surprisingly comfortable. I average 28mpg in 50/50 mixed driving, which includes long sections of slow traffic, frequent shirt section of full throttle acceleration, and everything in between.

The things the MS3 definitely has over the ST are time-on-market and aftermarket support. The MS3 has been around since 2007, so it's a well-known vehicle and any bugs or shortcomings have been resolved by either Mazda or the aftermarket. MazdaspeedForums is a jackpot of info and advice for the MS3 and there are several manufacturers and vendors who offer a huge range of reliability and performance upgrades. New Mini is like the New Beetle.Old: AwesomeNew: Lulz

I'd go with the Mazda. Tiny little asian beasts. I like that, hehe. Aren't those also available in the Need For Speed Underground games?

Why fwd? You prefer the torque steer feel or just trying to save a couple k?

yes  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrKw3iT6vNg

For zipping around town FWD is fine and responds more safely at the limit of grip. Usually better MPGs and increased interior room per wheelbase.

Responds more safely at the point of grip? Maybe some fwd with a good lsd you might be able to push into corners as well as other drivetrains, but I've felt as confident in only one of my fwd vehicles. But then after a few years i lost the front around a corner and drove into a rail while driving at the edge of handling. After aggressively driving for over 10 years in fwd, awd and rwd vehicles, I seriously question your assertion.

Better to understeer, brake, and regain control than lose the ass end and head backwards towards whatever direction your momentum is going to carry you.

I'm sure we could find some numbers that reflect what type of drivetrain corners best.

Maybe they should make corvettes, lambos and whatever fwd. They would corner better according to your logic. What are all these producers of performance vehicles thinking? They need you on the team man.

He never said they corner better. He said that at the extremes of grip, they're easier to recover and safer.

He didn't express that very well. Preference in handling dynamics is quite subjective anyway, so I relent. It's clear he is a fwd enthusiast, and I'm totally ok with that.

Never driven the MS3, but I just picked up an ST a few weeks ago. Fun little car, it does have a few quirks though and Ford is working on them/aware of them (nothing major in my opinion, but annoyances). I love the recaros!

The single last thing I want to say is that if I start to understeer, I hit the throttle to kick the back end out a little to compensate. I try not to brake anywhere once i'm fully into in a corner. I guess the bottom line is that fwd is best for amateur drivers. Again, not trying to hate on anyone that prefers fwd, because there are some great fun fwd cars. I love the feel of a civic hatch and some mazdas. They are front wheel drive perfection, while the 02 altima se that i had was an example of complete failure. Overall though, to an experienced driver, fwd is clearly inferior. Imho it's not worth a couple grand savings and trying to justify whatever flawed logic to spend 25 or whatever k on a performance oriented wrong wheel drive car. The idea behind spending extra for speed is that it's the most fun possible. Why I really miss s2k so much.

umair127 is missing the point. Not everyone drifts on their way to work, but they may still enjoy a vehicle that is fun within the limits defined by their daily driving.

Ya it still was not explained well in my perception, because i'm coming from the perspective of someone who knows how to drive and can corner faster and safer in rwd/awd.

If you're going to get an MS3, now is the time to do it. It's not known when or if Mazda will make another. Their new 3 body style just came out and there have been no indications a Mazdaspeed version will be made. It's not unreasonable to assume there won't be another because Mazda is concentrating on fuel efficiency and appeal to wider markets in the their whole line-up.

Cool, bro. It's still easier (and safer) to recover from grip loss in a FWD than a RWD and the sort of slide FWD is prone to is safer for public road use. That aside, you still get more interior room per wheelbase. The lack of a transmission hump, drive-shaft tunnel, rear diff & axles makes a huge difference.

The ST is vastly superior to the MS3 except for HP. It's not that far off though. I got my ST3 for 24.4. Best car all around. Mine is tuned ($500) and is nodded wrx fast.

You can try, might even manage to put up a half way appreciable fight, but you ain't gonna win:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flqp-Lh-gcw

In comparing rwd to fwd, you could argue all of that. Mostly because it's based on personal preference. Except for the front end creep problem. I would much rather the back end slide some than lose traction in the wheels that steer. Come around a corner very fast and hit unexpected wet pavement or gravel in fwd and see what happens. You argue that it's easier to recover, but it can create it's own specific situations in certain conditions. I just don't prefer it to rwd.

But whatever. There's nothing fwd can do that a good awd system can't do better. Drives better and feels more confident, and has more options for successful recovery in an emergency.

stopped at stage 2 still
Nobody was comparing an sti. A Cobb tuned wrx, yes.Tune of an ST can out it at 240 HP and 330ish tq to the wheels.Don't be mad you bought and old pos design that loses every single comparo.

Take something like an auto legacy gt out for a ride in the rain or snow, so you don't have to worry about biasing your torque and it's easier to see what's up. You can do things that seem so unnatural and impossible while accelerating or turning. You can also use power very easily to recover. Much more than rwd or fwd can come anywhere close to. There's physics to consider. Pretty simple really.

Again, I've never owned a FWD car. I believe RWD is the superior design for fun, light, and nimble and AWD for raw power to the ground in any situation. I'm not arguing with you here.

But push come to shove I wont tell you FWD isn't the superior design for a DD that never sees snow or ice.

Maybe if i re-state it. Situations where you push a RWD car to its grip limit during recreational driving on public roads are much more scarce than a FWD.