Bitcoin Forum

What will this do to the Bitcoin market price? Its the middle of the night.

This may be big news.

Nothing. Or we might go down a bit.

Macro news does not influence BTC price yet. The people that think the April 2013 bubble was due to Cyprus are deluded.

Yeah. I agree. Im just bored.  ;D

Did price controlled and exchange controlled kick in yet?

Big news? For bitcoin, not for my country... The rich people here buy bitcoins to save they money from the devaluation and the constant price raising of products.

Do you live in argentina? Are there exchanges where you can buy bitcoins with pesos? If yes, is the price rising equivalent to the pesos loss of value against the us dollar? I have read about a 15% inflation per year in argentina.

Yes, the price it´s rising the equivalent to the pesos loss of value against the us dollar. Also, the inflation per year it´s not 15%, it above 30%.

Sorry Wolf for you and your people. I hope and pray that things won't be as bad as expected

I don't think that the price will be influenced by the news of Argentina default,
maybe it can rise a little but if there aren't big whales playing the market, it won't move.

Sorry about your country, but excellent news that the price keeps pace with inflation. Theory suggests it would, but good to see it confirmed in practice.

No it's not. The economy of Argentina is too small to have an impact. People there rely primarily on the dollar to protect them against the ongoing devaluation of the peso.

I think they have a healthy bitcoin community, but it's only a tiny fraction of the population. Also, I don't know of any notable bitcoin exchange operating in Argentina.

ya.ya.yo!

Bitcoin will be the first thing the government is going to fight if it actually makes some impact there. People trying to get money out of the country and buy foreign currencies is already something that's highly regulated there. Just adopt Bitcoin as a nation's currency :D

Argentina economy it´s too small to have an impact? Argentina it´s on the top 20 most oil production countries. It produce the 15% of the world soya production. It have the third biggest lithium resources. And 8% of all grain in the world are produced in Argentina. Etc, etc.

It would at least be a major political and psychological sign if they really adopted Bitcoin in a large manner. This would make Dell seem like pennies!

The impact will probably be that Argentinians will have less money to buy bitcoin in the future.

I did not say that Argentina's economy is small in a general sense. But it is too small for the default to have severe global consequences, because it is not highly interconnected or within a bigger common currency zone like countries in the EU for example. You also have to take in consideration that the default might damage but will not extinguish the whole economy, since it does not come without warning.

ya.ya.yo!

I think there are misconceptions around that idea of the influence of news of that magnitude on the BTC price.
I think news like Cyprus are more like a self-fulfilling prophecy to the price of bitcoin, not really people in Cyprus buying more bitcoin.

I think you should see that kind of news more as an "excuse" for anticipating panic buys (which then creates a cascade that has as an effect a sharp increase in price), rather than a true cause.

So, if given the choice would you keep your money in the Argentina Peso or bitcoins?

The question is probably not what currency you want to keep your money in, but whether you want to have it in a bank account that could be locked or subjected to a haircut.
Except for the inflation, pesos are probably as good as any money for buying stuff locally (if you happen to live in Argentina). For international business, wealthy people and businesses probably use US Dollars anyway. The problem is that even USD held by Argentinians might be taken away from them to repay (part of) the countries' debt if the bank accounts are accessible to the lenders. With bitcoin, that's not so easy...

Onkel Paul

Wow, geez that's a sad thing to hear! Imagine you live there! I know, we're all into Bitcoin. But the regular public still doesn't know that much about it! I really feel sorry for all the people over there.

International banks should stop lending them money. There should be no bail out from IMF as this ultimately benefit the banks.

Like I said before, about shit nothing. If in countries in Europe you can barely save any extra cash to risk on Bitcoin, the people that go from bill to bill literally, don't know about Bitcoin and even if they did, so what? they can't move money to Bitcoin because they do not have any money to move there in the first place. Guess who benefits? the same people as always, people that ALREADY has money, so they can hide their money on Bitcoin.

Its not the increase in price that will benefit them the most... The buying power could remain perfectly stable and it will still benefit them once adoption grows.

I feel really bad for the people over there! This is something that affects your life if you're living in such a country. I don't know if Bitcoin can alleviate some of those problems, but I don't exactly know how we're supposed to 'bring' them Bitcoin and help them subsequently...

To invest in bitcoin and withdraw back to fiat usually involves sending money from a bank to an exchange, then back to your bank account again. In very serious economic collapses some countries deduct a percentage from everyone's bank balances to pay the national debt. In addition, they sometimes place a limit on withdrawals, so people can only withdraw a small amount each day.

Even if someone there had money invested in bitcoins, it would be difficult to convert it back into their local fiat currency. If they wanted to invest in bitcoin the bank may only let them invest a small amount, even if they were millionaires.

If I recall my memories correctly then Argentinian chicks are pretty hot. They can always start a web cam show and earn some international bitcoins. Desperate times take desperate measures you know... To feel bad for someone else is really just an act of self-pity, which in turn originates from self-importance. I assume there is no need to explain why the latter is so bad, it should be self-evident :P

You really have to stop sobbing.

You know something now, you can intervene to change the course of events for yourself. Live and let live.

Isn't Argentina the country with the super-laid back president?

That would be Uruguay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BwVxmJPies

Yep the IMF would set to many restrictions on what they can do with the money to improve their citizens and economies well being
They have alternatives now with the BRICS + Germany possibly and Mercosur and the Bank of the South which can help them to alleviate their issues.
So best to default now and switch the credit lines and get rid of those international banks interfering in the affairs of their state.

Hey, who you calling gay?  ;D

No, Argentina is a country with a woman-who-has-absolutely-no-idea-what-she-is-doing for president. I.e. G.W.Bush with boobs.

WTF lol? You are suggesting that the people of Argentina whore themselves out. I doubt those girls really end up making very much anyway.

I do feel bad for the people of Argentina, however they likely knew that it was coming and were able to plan appropriately. For example the price of bitcoin is trading at a huge premium in terms of Pesos when converted to Dollars, which reflects that the black market trade of pesos has already reduced the value of pesos. 

What do you mean I know nothing? I know people in argentina and I know they don't have any money. Tell me how Bitcoin helps them, when they can't have any Bitcoin in the first place.

No, Argentina is a country with a woman-who-has-absolutely-no-idea-what-she-is-doing for president. I.e. B. H. Obama with boobs.

FTF Someone.

You know something.

Paul Singer is an A@@@hole of the highest order, that's clear
Sucks for the people of Argentina

maybe someone on manipulate this price to control market ,, big man on the games .
just take a little time on it

For general knowledge I guess she has more of a tan so would lean to Obama with boobs than Bush with boobs lol  ::)
http://obamapacman.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Cristina-Fernandez-de-Kirchner-photo-female-President-Argentina-2007.jpg

And
@ At Paul Singer that's why they were called junk bonds you don't get market rate off them
http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2014/07/31/argentina-in-default-everyone-lost-from-cristina-kirchner-and-paul-singers-elliott-to-judge-griesa/

Things couldn’t have come out worse.  Everyone lost: Argentina defaulted on its sovereign debt for the second time in nearly 13 years, the holdout bond holders were left empty handed, and Federal Judge Thomas Griesa’s strategy to force Argentine to negotiate a settlement with the so-called venture funds failed.  Furthermore, a last ditch effort by a group of Argentina bankers led by Banco Macro’s Jorge Brito fell through at the last second.

The decade-long legal battle between a group of hedge funds led by billionaire Paul Singer’s Elliott Management and the Argentine government, which is by no means done, resulted in the worst possible scenario.  At the stroke of midnight on Thursday in New York, Argentina once again entered into a state of default, as holders of its restructured debt didn’t receive interest payments for $539 million.  Credit rating agency Standard & Poor’s downgraded the country’s rating to selective default.

Beyond the consensus opinion among U.S. commentators that the administration of Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner is solely responsible for this outcome, blame is widespread and encompasses practically every actor involved.  And while the fallout of the default wasn’t immediately discernible, failure to find a solution in the short-term could lead to dire consequences for the people of Argentina and all of the country’s creditors, from exchange bondholders to the holdouts.

It could have come out worse.

The government of Argentina could have continued spending other peoples money without
intent to pay back, for years.

Let's assume that Argentina today says "Fuckit it! We suck at doing fiat, lets just adopt Bitcoin" and lets all pesos become worthless and force all stores to accept Bitcoin. What do you think that the price would be tomorrow?

Stop dreaming, but the price would be at $10,000 if that happens..

I don't think anyone is given that choice.  Unless there are exchanges selling bitcoin for Argentine peso.  If so, links?

That is what they have a history of doing. They have now defaulted on their debt 3 times in this generation's lifetime. Yet this have the ability to repay their debts as they have large amounts of foreign currency reserves.

interesting article

http://www.coindesk.com/argentina-most-likely-adopt-bitcoin/

that is your opinion

You guys live in a fantasy world. No country will officially adopt crypto currencies as legal tender. Ever. They'd have to shut down all the social programs and fire 90% of the government employees right there if they did that. Which would result in 2/3 of the population with no jobs whatsoever. The only way they can provide some jobs and social safety nets to a lot of people is because they can keep printing fiat. Stop dreaming, get real! Crypto currencies will always be unofficial.

The statement is only true in US.

Elsewhere, like Japan, Korea and Singapore, most people work in the private sector.

Given a choice, people in Argentina will want to be paid preferably in Bitcoin.
They do not need to convert their paycheck in bitcoin, just sell good and services in bitcoins and refuse unneeded pesos (at best the will accept some pesos to pay taxes with them).

Foreigners will find favorable prices if they pay in bitcoins or any other half decent foreign currency.

I bet you can rent a lot of ass and pussy in Argentina for bitcoins and get favorable treatment.

So your solution is prostitution?    ;D

With two bankruptcies in 13 years how can it be worse than their current economic endeavors? ;)

For btc: no big deal.

I think this will be a big deal for BTC. It will likely lead to a greater amount of adoption in argentina and other countries that are struggling to pay their debts (and will likely have their local fiat currency devalued).

I doubt this will affect the btc price at all in the short term.  To the guys who say no country will adopt bitcoin, I think they're wrong too, but I think it's going to be some time before anything like that happens.  Also, when it happens it won't be any big countries, but it may indeed happen for small countries that currently use another country's fiat anyway (like Panama).  Once BTC stabilizes in a few years, small countries may indeed just decide to go officially bitcoin.  What I think would be even more interesting is if a small country decided to publish a fiat "backed" by bitcoin the way that us dollars used to be backed by gold bullion.  In this scenario, the fiat of country X would be exchangeable for a fixed amount of BTC.  Once people realize that BTC is as mathematically scarce as gold is physically scarce, they may just decide to do this.

I still don't think prostitution is the answer to their problems. Even if they were to resort to this, I would doubt it would solve their problems as prostitution does not even bring in a lot of money.

Well one thing is for sure: I doubt anyone will want to loan to them in the next decade so it's time for them to think of other sources of income.

I've heard of worse proposals and if the country changed its laws to allow for brothels and well filtered for AIDS and that stuff there would be a large market for it lol...

Just like the Ancient Romans ^_^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_ancient_Rome

But we can level that down if Argentina built some host clubs that would be good for their economy and legal consensual stuff lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_and_hostess_clubs

As always here is the anime precedent :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyuyJFRVwww

Argentina today, the world tomorrow.

All debt based paper currencies will return to their internal value, that is zero, sooner or later.

I wouldn't mind, considering...


Someone had to do it...

NSFW lol

She is very pretty, but I don't think most girls in Argentina would be willing to do this.

Not sure if it has been pointed out, but Argentina maintains that it has not defaulted since it made its interest payment to the disbursing agent for its bonds.  The agent is simply unable to distribute it because of a US court order.  This is different than last time and I wonder if their international appeal will work.  Given that the Obama Administration supported the official Argentina position, they may allow the Hague Court to rule on this.

That does seem like it is worth some consideration
Anyways I guess a generation of bitcoiners could support their economy that way lol.


Hmm
Argentina: Where a Default Is Not a Default
Blame the ‘vulture funds.’
http://spectator.org/articles/60183/argentina-where-default-not-default

. Around 93 percent those creditors accepted haircuts of roughly 70 percent in exchanges that took place in 2005 and 2010, but a few bought up defaulted bonds for pennies on the dollar, and pursued a longshot: repayment in full through the U.S. courts. In June, Griesa ordered Argentina to reach a settlement with a group of those holdouts who are owed $1.3 billion plus interest. Since that didn’t happen, he’s now blocking payment to most of the remaining bondholders until Argentina does settle. That’s triggered default, and the possibility that the rest of the bondholders will demand accelerated repayment.

The people have given up hope of things ever being different, in Argentina so they need to find a way to start fresh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BovLkIiNQNY 1 Hour Vid of your statement though

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alejandrochafuen/2014/08/06/argentinas-default-playing-politics-with-u-s-courts-and-wall-street/