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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: TaunSew on August 02, 2014, 08:17:50 PM



Title: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: TaunSew on August 02, 2014, 08:17:50 PM
https://www.facebook.com/boris.nemtsov/posts/665410086861928

Quote
Kremlin frantically fighting separatism in Russia. March for trying to block the federalization of Siberia, which will be held on August 17 in Novosibirsk. General Prosecutor's Office has already blocked the page in FB and VKontakte about this event, as well as many other resources. Organizers called traitors, propagandony received contracts for fighting against supporters of March. By the way, disappeared from the lexicon zombokanalov definition of federalization supporters in eastern Ukraine. Now they militias.
Prepares crackdown on activists who hung out in Kaliningrad German flag over the building of the FSB. They arrested and autumn begins tribunal.
I have repeatedly said that the war with Ukraine will lead to the growth of centrifugal tendencies and separatism in Russia. Boomerang always comes back.
I have repeatedly said that the unity of the country, a key task for all patriots of the country. Federalism save Russia and vertical thieves destroy it.
So what the heck Kremlin supports separatists in eastern Ukraine?? Russia wants to break up?

Protests in St. Petersburg and people calling for federalization in Siberia.  Seems like if Putin sends his armies into Europe he might face a coup de'tat in his own backyard.


Interesting thing about Siberia, you might think it is Russia, is that it is not that much Russian.  Siberia was mainly populated by Cossacks (who are split between Ukrainians and Southern Russians) and then there were enough Ukrainian migrants in recent generations that wide areas of Siberia and the Far East were called "Green Ukraine".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Ukraine





Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Nemo1024 on August 02, 2014, 08:29:25 PM
You are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Putin was never going to send any armies anywhere, despite Western MSM propaganda.
However, the activation of the 5th column within Russia to destabilise it internally and make it an easy prey for Western invasion of Russia is well underway.

US is just itching to perform a coup d'etat in Russia, just like they did in Ukraine. After all if 1917 was a success, then why 2014 cannot be too...


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: hologram on August 02, 2014, 08:33:07 PM
Humm what happened to the people who wanted a referendum in Kaliningrad ? Seem referendum is only to joint Russia but then you shut up...


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: TaunSew on August 02, 2014, 08:46:06 PM
Prussia never belonged to Germany.  It was illegally taken by Crusaders and Germanization only occurred as recently as the 1850s (although the locals switched to speaking German in the late 1700s).  The Germans Knights were so friendly to the Balts that they did things like tie Prussian, Latvian and Estonian women to trees and shot arrows at them.

The region would had been given to Lithuania a long time ago, much like Khruschev gifted Crimea to Ukraine, but the Lithuanians never exactly made themselves trusted.  The alternate was then between gifting the region to Poland or Russia keeping it and Russia went for the latter.



Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: hologram on August 02, 2014, 08:48:29 PM
that's not the question, the question is about doing a referendum cause Putin say that he take care about what people want... There will be referendum in Quebec and Scotland you know ?


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: 247crypto on August 02, 2014, 08:48:36 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: TaunSew on August 02, 2014, 08:51:11 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia

Yes but historically the "last republics" (the Soviet Republics) voted themselves away from Russia.  If I were a hypothetical politician in Moscow I would be nervous about creating anymore republics, especially in big regions like Siberia where the locals don't necessarily feel 100% Russian due to isolation or indigenous background.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: 247crypto on August 02, 2014, 08:53:41 PM


Yes but historically the "last republics" (the Soviet Republics) voted themselves away from Russia.  If I were a hypothetical politician in Moscow I would be nervous about creating anymore republics, especially in big regions like Siberia where the locals don't necessarily feel 100% Russian due to isolation or indigenous background.


Soviet Union is not "Russia".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_okrugs_of_Russia#Ethnic_composition_of_autonomous_okrugs (wikipedia is free, listen it)

About what isolation are You talking?


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: TaunSew on August 02, 2014, 08:58:19 PM


Yes but historically the "last republics" (the Soviet Republics) voted themselves away from Russia.  If I were a hypothetical politician in Moscow I would be nervous about creating anymore republics, especially in big regions like Siberia where the locals don't necessarily feel 100% Russian due to isolation or indigenous background.


Soviet Union is not "Russia".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

Yes I forgot, everyone was genderless and had no race - they were 'Soviet' people!   ;D


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Nemo1024 on August 02, 2014, 09:03:50 PM
It's quite difficult to break the Western-built association of USSR=Russia, even though it's not true.
Russia was a member republic of USSR, and went under the name of RSFSR (Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic). Though Federative was stated in its name, it had little say in its own affairs, so the soviet leaders did with Russian federative subjects and territories as they saw fit, as if that was their private property. Khushjov meddled with Crimea, Stalin with Ossetia, Lenin with Novorossia.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: 247crypto on August 02, 2014, 09:04:05 PM

Yes I forgot, everyone was genderless and had no race - they were 'Soviet' people!   ;D

Yes, You can see it Now in Novorossia. No race people fight with jewish-neo nazi groups.

Genderless is might be You?


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Balthazar on August 02, 2014, 09:06:38 PM
Federalisation is not secession, this term means splitting a unitary state to set of entities, which are connected by federative treaty. If you're already a subject of federative treaty then any demand of federalization is a total nonsense. Actually I'm not surprised to see a nonsense published by Nemtsov, he's well known hypocrite & bullshitter here.

But of course, any unitary subject of federative tready (like Republic of Crimea) could be turned into federative state as subject of federative treaty... And split to a few republics pupulated by tatars, ukrainians and russians :D See RSFSR for example of federative state as a subject of federative treaty.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: TaunSew on August 02, 2014, 09:08:10 PM
that's not the question, the question is about doing a referendum cause Putin say that he take care about what people want... There will be referendum in Quebec and Scotland you know ?

John Chretien, who surprisingly never went to jail (over many things), was busted years after in embezzlement and gerrymandering to make sure Quebec would lose that referendum (it lost by a measly 0.0058%).  The same tricks will probably be utilized in Catalonia and Scotland and nobody will contest the results.

Canada would be a very different country if Quebec had left like it was supposed to.  Country would had probably been broken up into four parts.  There would probably be no Chinese colonization of the country, for instance (not saying that is a good or a bad thing but stating the facts, immigration policy in Canada was always dictated by Ottawa who wanted a bigger stronger country).  Ontario would be a landlocked banana republic with no industry (well it's already that minus the landlocked).  The Maritimes  and Westcania would be a Saudi Arabia due to Oil.

 Quebec would had been the second biggest loser.  Instead Quebec stayed in Canada and they get free daycare, free university and free everything at the expense of the oil producing regions.  Ontario, even though it's a $hithole, people there can relocate to other provinces whereas if Canada had broken up Ontario would had been a giant prison full of poor people (like Moldova or Ukraine).




Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: hologram on August 02, 2014, 09:11:38 PM
Quebec is really a pain for Canada, i hope they will success to secede for the rest of the country. I support all secessionist movement, even if it's for doing a stupid thing.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: TaunSew on August 02, 2014, 09:21:22 PM
Quebec is really a pain for Canada, i hope they will success to secede for the rest of the country. I support all secessionist movement, even if it's for doing a stupid thing.

Quebec will legally never be allowed to leave Canada.  Ottawa is full of 'Canadian Nationalists' (pretty much Bolsheviks) who want a Canada of 100 million people from Victoria to St. John.  Quebec would have to resort to insurgency to free themselves of Canada.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: hologram on August 02, 2014, 09:26:11 PM
Quebec will legally never be allowed to leave Canada.  

So they are stupid, they would be better without them. I has read they have oil money from other state but are against the oil sand...


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Balthazar on August 03, 2014, 12:43:49 AM
https://www.facebook.com/boris.nemtsov/posts/665410086861928

Zhirinovsky vs. Nemtsov
FIGHT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aeijcg6Umo

 ;D


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Mobius on August 03, 2014, 03:58:34 AM
It's quite difficult to break the Western-built association of USSR=Russia, even though it's not true.
Russia was a member republic of USSR, and went under the name of RSFSR (Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic). Though Federative was stated in its name, it had little say in its own affairs, so the soviet leaders did with Russian federative subjects and territories as they saw fit, as if that was their private property. Khushjov meddled with Crimea, Stalin with Ossetia, Lenin with Novorossia.
The USSR used to = Russia until the end of the cold war and the collapse of the USSR. Today what was the USSR is mainly Russia and other countries that used to be part of the USSR.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: REDoctober on August 03, 2014, 05:03:50 AM
I would want to secede if I were
under the control of the Russian government.
Murderers will murder until they are STOPPED.

If BLOOD was currency, the Russian government
would be the wealthiest on the planet.

A great book:

https://i.imgur.com/zwCGhR3.jpg

Cheka (pre-KGB) common practices:

https://i.imgur.com/RyVveBE.jpg

Recent history in the Crimea:

https://i.imgur.com/5uBqoA0.jpg

The fighting man's reward for seeking a socialist utopia:

https://i.imgur.com/XqTyayk.jpg

The brave Hungarians:


https://i.imgur.com/VwuYa4v.jpg


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Balthazar on August 03, 2014, 07:51:03 AM
It seems that we've got another student-run publication from Lithuania. Are you happy with your 2$? :D


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: REDoctober on August 03, 2014, 07:55:19 AM
It seems that we've got another student-run publication from Lithuania. Are you happy with your 2$? :D

$2 for the TRUTH is a cheap price to pay.

But no, please, tell me what truths the Russian media hand feeds you?

Oh, but no need to. I see the senseless blather here daily.

Apparently Putin is the most popular world leader and
RUssia is the beacon of hope for all downtrodden peoples?  ??? ??? ::) :D :D :D :D :D

A retard with 70 IQ could see through these falsehoods. :-*


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: libivan on August 03, 2014, 10:21:06 AM
I would want to secede if I were
under the control of the Russian government.
Murderers will murder until they are STOPPED.

If BLOOD was currency, the Russian government
would be the wealthiest on the planet.

A great book:
(...)

I think you forgot that


Soviet Union is not "Russia".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_okrugs_of_Russia#Ethnic_composition_of_autonomous_okrugs (wikipedia is free, listen it)

About what isolation are You talking?


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Nemo1024 on August 03, 2014, 10:40:32 AM
It seems that we've got another student-run publication from Lithuania. Are you happy with your 2$? :D

$2 for the TRUTH is a cheap price to pay.

But no, please, tell me what truths the Russian media hand feeds you?

Oh, but no need to. I see the senseless blather here daily.

Apparently Putin is the most popular world leader and
RUssia is the beacon of hope for all downtrodden peoples?
 ??? ??? ::) :D :D :D :D :D

A retard with 70 IQ could see through these falsehoods. :-*

Funny, I am here every day, and you are the fist to say it like this on these forums. Everyone else just point out facts. However, I've seen the formulation that you offer on other forums as well, always coming from NATO-paid trolls.

What Russia wants is to be left alone, and have at least one century for itself, when no one tries to invade or disintegrate it.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: hologram on August 03, 2014, 10:56:41 AM
What Russia wants is to be left alone, and have at least one century for itself, when no one tries to invade or disintegrate it.

So why Russia is boring everybody when we try to do trade with ex-USSR country ?

And why Putin do an anti-fracking campaign in western Europe ?


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Nemo1024 on August 03, 2014, 11:07:40 AM
What Russia wants is to be left alone, and have at least one century for itself, when no one tries to invade or disintegrate it.

So why Russia is boring everybody when we try to do trade with ex-USSR country ?

And why Putin do an anti-fracking campaign in western Europe ?

So why Russia is boring everybody when we try to do trade with Western/Asian/rest of the world country ?

And why British/French/Americans do an anti-fracking campaign in western Europe/USA ?

PS: If you mean Ukraine, need I remind that Russia was open for a three way EU-Ukraine-Russia trade agreement. However EU said that Ukraine needs to choose, or else. Once Yanukovich said that he needed time to think, "or else" got implemented.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: hologram on August 03, 2014, 11:38:27 AM
1.So why Russia is boring everybody when we try to do trade with Western/Asian/rest of the world country ?

2.And why British/French/Americans do an anti-fracking campaign in western Europe/USA ?

3.PS: If you mean Ukraine, need I remind that Russia was open for a three way EU-Ukraine-Russia trade agreement. However EU said that Ukraine needs to choose, or else. Once Yanukovich said that he needed time to think, "or else" got implemented.

1.WTF ?

2.WTF ?

3.EU was open to EU-Ukraine-Russia trade but explained that EU can't have a trade agreement with Ukraine if Ukraine joint the "eurasiatic" trade union cause it's impossible with the eurasiatic trade union rule (cause you must have an unique trade agreement with all the trade union country, not a trade agreement by country (one for Ukraine and one for Russia))

And i don't mean just Ukraine, Russia was opposed to every relation the west has with ex-USSR country. If Russia is not the USSR why they defend so hard the USSR empire ?


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Nemo1024 on August 03, 2014, 12:15:16 PM

3.EU was open to EU-Ukraine-Russia trade but explained that EU can't have a trade agreement with Ukraine if Ukraine joint the "eurasiatic" trade union cause it's impossible with the eurasiatic trade union rule (cause you must have an unique trade agreement with all the trade union country, not a trade agreement by country (one for Ukraine and one for Russia))

And i don't mean just Ukraine, Russia was opposed to every relation the west has with ex-USSR country. If Russia is not the USSR why they defend so hard the USSR empire ?

1 & 2: rephrasing your questions to show their non-applicability.

3: Baltic states are happily-robbed by EU, and Russia had nothing against it. In fact, Russia has healthy trade agreements with the Baltic states. The same goes for other former Soviet-block countries. What Russia was opposed to, is the placement of rocket installation and NATO bases in the aforementioned countries, in clear violation of the promise given by NATO.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: hologram on August 03, 2014, 12:48:58 PM
1 & 2: rephrasing your questions to show their non-applicability.

3: Baltic states are happily-robbed by EU, and Russia had nothing against it. In fact, Russia has healthy trade agreements with the Baltic states. The same goes for other former Soviet-block countries. What Russia was opposed to, is the placement of rocket installation and NATO bases in the aforementioned countries, in clear violation of the promise given by NATO.

1.You transformed a question into a fucking no-sense...

2.That not answer the Ukraine point with EU and eurasiatic trade union. Also why Russia want the possibility to invade again ex-URSS country if they are really isolationist ?


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: blablahblah on August 03, 2014, 03:07:24 PM


Yes but historically the "last republics" (the Soviet Republics) voted themselves away from Russia.  If I were a hypothetical politician in Moscow I would be nervous about creating anymore republics, especially in big regions like Siberia where the locals don't necessarily feel 100% Russian due to isolation or indigenous background.


Soviet Union is not "Russia".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

Yes I forgot, everyone was genderless and had no race - they were 'Soviet' people!   ;D

I can accept that. I can also accept that today's Russia is not the same pre-revolution "Russia". I'm tired of all the pseudo-academic arguments trying to justify Russia's annexation of Crimea and other violent acts against former Soviet states.

As far as I'm concerned, all the "real" Russians should confine themselves to a 50 mile Tsar Bomba radius of Moscow.

...OOPS. That was a Soviet invention, nothing to do with Russia. My mistake.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: 247crypto on August 03, 2014, 05:32:11 PM

$2 for the TRUTH is a cheap price to pay.

Who pay for Your posts?


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Balthazar on August 03, 2014, 05:59:01 PM
It seems that we've got another student-run publication from Lithuania. Are you happy with your 2$? :D

$2 for the TRUTH is a cheap price to pay.

But no, please, tell me what truths the Russian media hand feeds you?

Oh, but no need to. I see the senseless blather here daily.

Apparently Putin is the most popular world leader and
RUssia is the beacon of hope for all downtrodden peoples?  ??? ??? ::) :D :D :D :D :D

A retard with 70 IQ could see through these falsehoods. :-*
http://cdn.sellbe.com/shop-17025/product/5/844744.jpg

Hope it will be helpful.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Nemo1024 on August 03, 2014, 06:00:32 PM
1 & 2: rephrasing your questions to show their non-applicability.

3: Baltic states are happily-robbed by EU, and Russia had nothing against it. In fact, Russia has healthy trade agreements with the Baltic states. The same goes for other former Soviet-block countries. What Russia was opposed to, is the placement of rocket installation and NATO bases in the aforementioned countries, in clear violation of the promise given by NATO.

1.You transformed a question into a fucking no-sense...

2.That not answer the Ukraine point with EU and eurasiatic trade union. Also why Russia want the possibility to invade again ex-URSS country if they are really isolationist ?

Invade? Last I checked. Russia was shot at from Ukraine, and NATO was doing a massive military build-up of what can only be called an invasion force on Russian borders.

Also, I'll indulge you with your questions, which are, by the way, nonsensical at their core.

Quote
So why Russia is boring everybody when we try to do trade with ex-USSR country ?

And why Putin do an anti-fracking campaign in western Europe ?

1. When you try to trade with an ex-USSR country, and that country is ok with it, Russia is not boring anybody. However, when that country might lose 60% of its trade revenue by severing the trade deals with Russia, and starts having second thoughts... Let's just say that it's the EU that starts boring people with their coup d'etats.

2. Sources? As far as I know fracking has enough global opposition without Putin's help. Maybe if US released info about which chemicals are used in the process, there'll be less resistance?

PS: You are breaking the law on foul language use.  :P


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: blablahblah on August 03, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
1 & 2: rephrasing your questions to show their non-applicability.

3: Baltic states are happily-robbed by EU, and Russia had nothing against it. In fact, Russia has healthy trade agreements with the Baltic states. The same goes for other former Soviet-block countries. What Russia was opposed to, is the placement of rocket installation and NATO bases in the aforementioned countries, in clear violation of the promise given by NATO.

1.You transformed a question into a fucking no-sense...

2.That not answer the Ukraine point with EU and eurasiatic trade union. Also why Russia want the possibility to invade again ex-URSS country if they are really isolationist ?

Invade? Last I checked. Russia was shot at from Ukraine, and NATO was doing a massive military build-up of what can only be called an invasion force on Russian borders.
Oh my god! Russia is under threat from the Lugansk People's Republic! ::)

Or are you talking about the other border? I guess the Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics will soon form friendly trade agreements with Russia USSR2.0, and there will be new borders, closer to Kiev?

Quote
1. When you try to trade with an ex-USSR country, and that country is ok with it, Russia is not boring anybody. However, when that country might lose 60% of its trade revenue by severing the trade deals with Russia, and starts having second thoughts...
Yeah, Russia is such a nice trading partner. "Trade on our terms and conditions, or else we will fuck you up like Crimea".

Quote
Let's just say that it's the EU that starts boring people with their coup d'etats.

You're misrepresenting the facts. Yanukovich committed high treason by abandoning the Ukraine when things got too tough for him. He ran away to his Russian master. You call that independent?? You should be ashamed of spreading your lies for money.


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: beetcoin on August 03, 2014, 07:47:18 PM
i wonder if this separatist movement was possibly engineered by the U.S./CIA. it would be a pretty effective way of fucking with putin. the annex parts of the ukraine, the U.S. emancipates part of russia..


Title: Re: Russian liberals threatening secession?
Post by: Balthazar on August 03, 2014, 08:01:53 PM
I think that this movement was created by V. Zhirinovsky or E. Fedorov in order to troll everybody.