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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Thekool1s on August 06, 2014, 05:09:54 PM



Title: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Thekool1s on August 06, 2014, 05:09:54 PM
Guys i wanted to discuss about quantum computers, How will they affect BTC

1st thing is that these computers will be 1000s of times faster than the current super computer so my question is what will happen to the difficulty if it rises like a rocket then the price of BTC will also rise like a rocket?

2nd thing is hacking, When these computers get to the consumer market won't hacking become a problem?

Edit: One more question will this also mean the 21 million bitcoins will be made faster?

For now i have got these points i will edit as the post progresses.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: cuddaloreappu on August 06, 2014, 05:21:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkUpZkeqhF4

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6021/bitcoin-is-not-quantum-safe-and-how-we-can-fix/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325800.0


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Thekool1s on August 06, 2014, 05:34:17 PM
Youtube doesn't open in pakistan, I don't visit any site other than bitcointalk.org for bitcoin infromation and your 3rd link is also a youtube link. So even if i had searched it would have been no use.  ;)


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: BitCoinDream on August 06, 2014, 05:35:43 PM
Guys i wanted to discuss about quantum computers, How will they affect BTC

1st thing is that these computers will be 1000s of times faster than the current super computer so my question is what will happen to the difficulty if it rises like a rocket then the price of BTC will also rise like a rocket?

2nd thing is hacking, When these computers get to the consumer market won't hacking become a problem?

For now i have got these points i will edit as the post progresses.

This is actually a well discussed topic since 2010. Just to note, if Quantum computers break bitcoin, then they'll break your online banking too. So, first worry about that.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: cr1776 on August 06, 2014, 05:39:15 PM
Have you tried searching the forum? There is already a wealth of information available on this topic.

Youtube doesn't open in pakistan, I don't visit any site other than bitcointalk.org for bitcoin infromation and your 3rd link is also a youtube link. So even if i had searched it would have been no use.  ;)

Holliday didn't post any links, the guy above him did.  Anyway, there are literally 100s of topics on bitcointalk.org that don't involve youtube here are a few:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153302.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133425.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=396540.0



Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Thekool1s on August 06, 2014, 05:45:54 PM
Have you tried searching the forum? There is already a wealth of information available on this topic.

Youtube doesn't open in pakistan, I don't visit any site other than bitcointalk.org for bitcoin infromation and your 3rd link is also a youtube link. So even if i had searched it would have been no use.  ;)

Holliday didn't post any links, the guy above him did.  Anyway, there are literally 100s of topics on bitcointalk.org that don't involve youtube here are a few:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153302.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133425.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=396540.0



Thanks but can you answer my last question?


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Koko on August 06, 2014, 06:40:29 PM
Youtube doesn't open in pakistan, I don't visit any site other than bitcointalk.org for bitcoin infromation and your 3rd link is also a youtube link. So even if i had searched it would have been no use.  ;)

Can't you use a proxy?


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Capt Drake on August 06, 2014, 07:33:37 PM
Even if they breake the first encryption of bitcoin, which I think it has 3, the other 2 will be strong enough for the hacker won't be able to steal your coins, however, if you send your coins to another wallet, the hacker would be able to figure your private key and then your wallet security would be compromised.
So, every time that you send your coins to an address, you'll have to send all of your coins to another one, and keep doing that forever.

That's what I've read in some article around here.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: jonald_fyookball on August 06, 2014, 07:33:42 PM
Have you tried searching the forum? There is already a wealth of information available on this topic.

Youtube doesn't open in pakistan, I don't visit any site other than bitcointalk.org for bitcoin infromation and your 3rd link is also a youtube link. So even if i had searched it would have been no use.  ;)

Holliday didn't post any links, the guy above him did.  Anyway, there are literally 100s of topics on bitcointalk.org that don't involve youtube here are a few:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153302.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133425.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=396540.0



Thanks but can you answer my last question?

No amount of computing power will make the 21,000,000 coins come faster
because difficulty is always adjusted.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: FUR11 on August 06, 2014, 08:21:19 PM
Guys i wanted to discuss about quantum computers, How will they affect BTC

1st thing is that these computers will be 1000s of times faster than the current super computer so my question is what will happen to the difficulty if it rises like a rocket then the price of BTC will also rise like a rocket?

2nd thing is hacking, When these computers get to the consumer market won't hacking become a problem?

Edit: One more question will this also mean the 21 million bitcoins will be made faster?

For now i have got these points i will edit as the post progresses.

It depends whether one-way mathematical functions can be reversed. If that happens, we have a problem. Also, it isn't a question how fast quantum computers are, but rather if they are able to solve the problems needed in order to 'crack' bitcoin. If they can, we are immediately burned.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: franky1 on August 06, 2014, 09:52:57 PM
ok here goes

SuperMUC the super computer in germany is the equivelent of 110,000 personal computers.

how we all know from the old CPU mining days that CPU mining can only handle 5-7M/hash a second mining bitcoin.
so superMUC would be the equivalent of 550Ghash (half a terrahash)

yes that's right SuperMUC is only a half a terrahash bitcoin miner. now if a quantum computer is 1000 times that would be half a petahash

so with bitcoin hash power at 138/170 petahash's. there would still need to be about 300 quantum computers based on the 1000x the speed of SuperMUC figure given by the OP


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: FUR11 on August 06, 2014, 09:56:40 PM
ok here goes

SuperMUC the super computer in germany is the equivelent of 110,000 personal computers.

how we all know from the old CPU mining days that CPU mining can only handle 5-7M/hash a second mining bitcoin.
so superMUC would be the equivalent of 550Ghash (half a terrahash)

yes that's right SuperMUC is only a half a terrahash bitcoin miner. now if a quantum computer is 1000 times that would be half a petahash

so with bitcoin hash power at 138/170 petahash's. there would still need to be about 300 quantum computers based on the 1000x the speed of SuperMUC figure given by the OP


You are talking about a quantum computer that is running a Turing complete machine, i.e. is a multi-/all-purpose machine. If you optimize that quantum computer to do one thing (SHA256) things will look dramatically different.
Also: what if you use a quantum computer to reverse one-way mathematical functions? Goodbye, PoW....


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Omikifuse on August 06, 2014, 10:05:41 PM
If quantum computers really going to exist, we will need to update our crypto protocols to stronger ones(SHA-1024)?

But the same crypto technology still can be used, so we will only need some adaptation after the panic wave


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: FUR11 on August 06, 2014, 10:23:01 PM
If quantum computers really going to exist, we will need to update our crypto protocols to stronger ones(SHA-1024)?

But the same crypto technology still can be used, so we will only need some adaptation after the panic wave

If they really can break one-way mathematical functions, just updating to a more complex one doesn't work... It's a question of what exactly will be possible with quantum computers.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: jonald_fyookball on August 06, 2014, 10:31:12 PM
If quantum computers really going to exist, we will need to update our crypto protocols to stronger ones(SHA-1024)?

But the same crypto technology still can be used, so we will only need some adaptation after the panic wave

If they really can break one-way mathematical functions, just updating to a more complex one doesn't work... It's a question of what exactly will be possible with quantum computers.

sigh...already been discussed to death in other threads.

there is no known or even theorized quantum algo or speedup for breaking one way functions.
only ECDSA.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: FUR11 on August 06, 2014, 10:36:08 PM
If quantum computers really going to exist, we will need to update our crypto protocols to stronger ones(SHA-1024)?

But the same crypto technology still can be used, so we will only need some adaptation after the panic wave

If they really can break one-way mathematical functions, just updating to a more complex one doesn't work... It's a question of what exactly will be possible with quantum computers.

sigh...already been discussed to death in other threads.

there is no known or even theorized quantum algo or speedup for breaking one way functions.
only ECDSA.

Yeah: no _known_! Like I said, we'll probably be safe off, but can't be sure since something just _might_ come around the corner and prove our current systems to be flawed. It wouldn't be the first time that happened with some technology!


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: doubleredrolex on August 06, 2014, 11:02:04 PM
I think a lot of things will have to change when quantum computers come into existence. Im sure we will cross that bridge when we get to it. No point speculating whats going to happen when the computers don't even exist yet.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: frankh13 on August 07, 2014, 12:36:46 AM
Guys i wanted to discuss about quantum computers, How will they affect BTC

1st thing is that these computers will be 1000s of times faster than the current super computer so my question is what will happen to the difficulty if it rises like a rocket then the price of BTC will also rise like a rocket?

2nd thing is hacking, When these computers get to the consumer market won't hacking become a problem?

Edit: One more question will this also mean the 21 million bitcoins will be made faster?

For now i have got these points i will edit as the post progresses.

May be with 1000 that machines you can to do a 51% atack!!!
For to be serious, no. Actually on block all systems spent 10 min. at all gear power.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: TinEye on August 07, 2014, 12:51:29 AM
The quantum computers you are thinking of are in realms of deep science fiction. You don't have to worry about it in the forseeable future.

By the time they come BTC might even have gone Netscape's way.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Giulio Prisco on August 07, 2014, 10:13:10 AM
The quantum computers you are thinking of are in realms of deep science fiction. You don't have to worry about it in the forseeable future.

Not really, they are in the realm of near-future science fiction. See http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9249721/Money_talks_and_that_s_all_quantum_maker_D_Wave_has_to_say


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: TinEye on August 10, 2014, 02:33:45 PM
The quantum computers you are thinking of are in realms of deep science fiction. You don't have to worry about it in the forseeable future.

Not really, they are in the realm of near-future science fiction. See http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9249721/Money_talks_and_that_s_all_quantum_maker_D_Wave_has_to_say

No, they are not. Right now they just send some photons in a lab. Functioning quantum computers are several decades away.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: HarmonLi on August 10, 2014, 02:35:58 PM
Guys i wanted to discuss about quantum computers, How will they affect BTC

1st thing is that these computers will be 1000s of times faster than the current super computer so my question is what will happen to the difficulty if it rises like a rocket then the price of BTC will also rise like a rocket?

2nd thing is hacking, When these computers get to the consumer market won't hacking become a problem?

Edit: One more question will this also mean the 21 million bitcoins will be made faster?

For now i have got these points i will edit as the post progresses.

1000s of times faster than current super computers is still slow compared to ASICs. People really don't seem to get how making an integrated circuit that's optimized for doing exactly one thing speeds things up. Doesn't matter.
It'll only mine the 21 million bitcoin faster if new hashing power keeps coming online, or the difficulty will adjust too fast!


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Ayers on August 10, 2014, 02:46:14 PM
bitcoin private key will remain safe, in term of how much a quantum computer is faster, it is like making the square root of a number, so 256 bit become 128, which is unbreakable, public key could see some issue as they are 128 bit, but they are revealed only if you make a transaction(if i'm not mistaken, so as long as you only receive you are safe


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: sandykho47 on August 10, 2014, 02:49:41 PM
1. if quantum computer is sold to public. Bitcoin price will down because too much mined, and difficult will rise up extremely
2. hacking will never resolved, because nothing are perfect  :)
3. of course we can see 21000000 BTC faster  ;D

i think bitcoin need to change from SHA-256 to something much more harder to mined
and crack wallet.dat / private key will 1000x faster


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Mobius on August 10, 2014, 05:21:37 PM
Edit: One more question will this also mean the 21 million bitcoins will be made faster?
A quantum computer is not necessary for this to happen. The fact that the difficulty is increasing at a rapid rate means that, on average blocks are found less then every 10 minutes. The answer to your question is "yes" the 21 million BTC will be made faster, but this will not be because of quantum computers, it will be because of ASICs.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Kipsy89 on August 10, 2014, 05:27:00 PM
Guys i wanted to discuss about quantum computers, How will they affect BTC

1st thing is that these computers will be 1000s of times faster than the current super computer so my question is what will happen to the difficulty if it rises like a rocket then the price of BTC will also rise like a rocket?

2nd thing is hacking, When these computers get to the consumer market won't hacking become a problem?

Edit: One more question will this also mean the 21 million bitcoins will be made faster?

For now i have got these points i will edit as the post progresses.

Woah man, really 1000 times faster than those super computers? I bet they could do a pretty big 110% attack on the Bitcoin network. Why don't they steal the Bitcoins and profit? I mean, they shouldn't do it, but I just want to make sure this won't happen... Better sell my Bitcoins?


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: HarmonLi on August 10, 2014, 05:28:42 PM
1. if quantum computer is sold to public. Bitcoin price will down because too much mined, and difficult will rise up extremely
2. hacking will never resolved, because nothing are perfect  :)
3. of course we can see 21000000 BTC faster  ;D

i think bitcoin need to change from SHA-256 to something much more harder to mined
and crack wallet.dat / private key will 1000x faster

Doesn't matter. 1000x faster isn't that much. It's still nothing compared to the maximum difficulty Bitcoin could achieve. People don't get how incredibly high the number 2^256 is. You just can't even count to that number! Not even with the fastest supercomputer in the world!!!


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: wasserman99 on August 10, 2014, 07:02:20 PM
1. if quantum computer is sold to public. Bitcoin price will down because too much mined, and difficult will rise up extremely
2. hacking will never resolved, because nothing are perfect  :)
3. of course we can see 21000000 BTC faster  ;D

i think bitcoin need to change from SHA-256 to something much more harder to mined
and crack wallet.dat / private key will 1000x faster

Doesn't matter. 1000x faster isn't that much. It's still nothing compared to the maximum difficulty Bitcoin could achieve. People don't get how incredibly high the number 2^256 is. You just can't even count to that number! Not even with the fastest supercomputer in the world!!!
There is no effective maximum difficulty that BTC can have. ASICs will always be the most efficient way to mine BTC and they present the same kind of threats the OP is talking about but they are n/a because ASICs are available to the public and are somewhat decentralized.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: coinits on August 10, 2014, 07:06:41 PM
If quantum computers really going to exist, we will need to update our crypto protocols to stronger ones(SHA-1024)?

But the same crypto technology still can be used, so we will only need some adaptation after the panic wave

They already exist at about $10 million per unit. The CIA and Bezos are invested heavily in the only company making them. A Canadian Company: http://www.dwavesys.com/


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: counter on August 10, 2014, 07:11:04 PM
The quantum computers you are thinking of are in realms of deep science fiction. You don't have to worry about it in the forseeable future.

By the time they come BTC might even have gone Netscape's way.

It is my understanding that they only increase in speed and power faster and faster so basically more and more ground is gained then the previous day technologically speaking that it.  I can only imagine at some point they would play a role and more then many people seem to think.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: asdlolciterquit on August 10, 2014, 07:28:42 PM
Guys i wanted to discuss about quantum computers, How will they affect BTC

1st thing is that these computers will be 1000s of times faster than the current super computer so my question is what will happen to the difficulty if it rises like a rocket then the price of BTC will also rise like a rocket?

2nd thing is hacking, When these computers get to the consumer market won't hacking become a problem?

Edit: One more question will this also mean the 21 million bitcoins will be made faster?

For now i have got these points i will edit as the post progresses.

i've never thought this! anyways, quantum computers will not be here until 10 years...


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Mobius on August 12, 2014, 11:42:07 PM
If quantum computers really going to exist, we will need to update our crypto protocols to stronger ones(SHA-1024)?

But the same crypto technology still can be used, so we will only need some adaptation after the panic wave

They already exist at about $10 million per unit. The CIA and Bezos are invested heavily in the only company making them. A Canadian Company: http://www.dwavesys.com/
ASICs will always be much more efficient then any quantum computer will be. Since quantum computers can likely do many tasks it will be less efficient then a machine that can do one task only.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: freedomno1 on August 12, 2014, 11:50:50 PM
Have you tried searching the forum? There is already a wealth of information available on this topic.

Yep pretty much already came to the conclusion that its a Schrodinger cat
It's destroyed and yet not destroyed at the same time ^_^.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Razick on August 13, 2014, 01:03:36 AM
Even if they breake the first encryption of bitcoin, which I think it has 3, the other 2 will be strong enough for the hacker won't be able to steal your coins, however, if you send your coins to another wallet, the hacker would be able to figure your private key and then your wallet security would be compromised.
So, every time that you send your coins to an address, you'll have to send all of your coins to another one, and keep doing that forever.

That's what I've read in some article around here.

If you read the Bitcoin Magazine article, it's really a bit worse than that. We need to address this issue long before it becomes an issue.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Razick on August 13, 2014, 01:05:56 AM
Edit: One more question will this also mean the 21 million bitcoins will be made faster?
A quantum computer is not necessary for this to happen. The fact that the difficulty is increasing at a rapid rate means that, on average blocks are found less then every 10 minutes. The answer to your question is "yes" the 21 million BTC will be made faster, but this will not be because of quantum computers, it will be because of ASICs.

The strength of ASICS has nothing to do with it. It's the cryptography that is threatened, not the mining network.

As for the OP's original question about faster mining, no. The difficulty rate rises as the hash rate rises to keep block creation steady.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: PenAndPaper on August 13, 2014, 01:06:22 AM
Quantum computers will affect bitcoin the same way teleportation or time travel will do.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Razick on August 13, 2014, 01:07:42 AM
Quantum computers will affect bitcoin the same way teleportation or time travel will do.

Quantum computers are real.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: doubleredrolex on August 13, 2014, 02:47:46 AM
Quantum computers will affect bitcoin the same way teleportation or time travel will do.

Quantum computers are real.

So is time travel and teleportation. Quantum computers are just closer to becoming reality. And quantum computers arent really measured as 1000x faster.. instead of doing calculations really quickly one at a time, the quantum computer does all the calculations at the same time. Or something to that effect. It will be exponentially faster than anything we have today. Theres some good videos on Youtube that explain it.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Cortex7 on August 13, 2014, 03:54:53 AM
Enumeration is not needed in a quantum computer, as @doubleredrolex says, in an X qbit register, all 2^X bit states can occur at once in "superposition".

D-Wave has an array of raw qbits, but reading the state gives a very fuzzy statistical answer and the fuzziness scales with it, so the more complex the architecture, the more useless it becomes. The best you can do with such a system is reduce the problem space, but not nail down an answer, it is useless for hard spiky (logical) problem spaces.

However a "logical qbit" has a fully deterministic read/write.

A logical qbit is formed from a collection of raw qbits in an error correcting surface code topology:

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1208/1208.0928.pdf

Large scale general purpose architectures and also application specific systems (quantum ASIC) could be made using logical qbits.

Interestingly (and somewhat off topic) similar error correcting code topologies have been found in string theory in the very fabric of our own reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1LCVknKUJ4


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: RedDiamond on August 13, 2014, 01:33:31 PM
It is possible to  build a quantum computer inside a diamond: http://techland.time.com/2012/04/10/meet-the-quantum-computer-inside-a-diamond-does-it-run-forever/   :)


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: gtraah on August 13, 2014, 02:39:39 PM
lollll Wow... I'm surprised people even comment to these threads.... some of the comments are just W O W..... fukkk u know what? wtf am I commenting here for!  ::)

Bleeghhhhhh I have just realized this Discussion forum is 85% full of B-shit, big time...I cant beleive it has taken me this long to notice the percentage of shit here.. , cubye  ;D


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: RedDiamond on August 13, 2014, 04:05:49 PM
lollll Wow... I'm surprised people even comment to these threads.... some of the comments are just W O W..... fukkk u know what? wtf am I commenting here for!  ::)

Bleeghhhhhh I have just realized this Discussion forum is 85% full of B-shit, big time...I cant beleive it has taken me this long to notice the percentage of shit here.. , cubye  ;D

If you need more high quality forum for discussing about quantum computing maybe this is right place for you:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v484/n7392/full/nature10900.html
http://www.nature.com/rss/feed?doi=10.1038/nature10900


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Fray on August 13, 2014, 04:29:03 PM
Quantum computers will affect bitcoin the same way teleportation or time travel will do.

Quantum computers are real.

So is time travel and teleportation. Quantum computers are just closer to becoming reality. And quantum computers arent really measured as 1000x faster.. instead of doing calculations really quickly one at a time, the quantum computer does all the calculations at the same time. Or something to that effect. It will be exponentially faster than anything we have today. Theres some good videos on Youtube that explain it.
Time travel is not real. You can only "go forward in time" by traveling at speeds that approach the speed of light as it makes it seem like time is going by faster then it really is. You cannot travel backwards in time.

Quantum computers are not a threat as ASICs are already in use on the network which will be more efficient then Quantum computers.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: CharHill on August 13, 2014, 09:21:39 PM
I think a lot of things will have to change when quantum computers come into existence. Im sure we will cross that bridge when we get to it. No point speculating whats going to happen when the computers don't even exist yet.

Yes, it's true. But we can to think about future of mine with so high power. Number of miners will go so low with that machines, i think.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Skoupi on August 13, 2014, 09:40:55 PM
I 'm buying a quantum alienwarer
Quantum computers will affect bitcoin the same way teleportation or time travel will do.

Quantum computers are real.

Sure they are. I saw one recently in "zero theorem".
Here is the link to the scientific paper http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2333804/?ref_=nv_sr_1


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Pente on August 13, 2014, 09:52:44 PM
I will start worrying (and educating myself) about quantum computers when they start factoring very large numbers. Until then...same category as interdimensional aliens using advanced technology to hijack the blockchain.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Cortex7 on August 13, 2014, 10:29:38 PM
I will start worrying (and educating myself) about quantum computers when they start factoring very large numbers. Until then...same category as interdimensional aliens using advanced technology to hijack the blockchain.

haha 'tis true! Aliens would probably be able to pwn the blockchain using a smartphone equivalent.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: coinits on August 13, 2014, 10:30:36 PM
I will start worrying (and educating myself) about quantum computers when they start factoring very large numbers. Until then...same category as interdimensional aliens using advanced technology to hijack the blockchain.

It has already been done. So start worrying.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Fray on August 13, 2014, 10:50:35 PM
I will start worrying (and educating myself) about quantum computers when they start factoring very large numbers. Until then...same category as interdimensional aliens using advanced technology to hijack the blockchain.

It has already been done. So start worrying.
I believe that the NSA has already developed/purchased to help them handle all their data they get from their spying programs. I believe it was also very expensive (in the billions of dollars).


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: coinits on August 13, 2014, 10:56:13 PM
I will start worrying (and educating myself) about quantum computers when they start factoring very large numbers. Until then...same category as interdimensional aliens using advanced technology to hijack the blockchain.

It has already been done. So start worrying.
I believe that the NSA has already developed/purchased to help them handle all their data they get from their spying programs. I believe it was also very expensive (in the billions of dollars).

Actually a Canadian Company developed them at $10 million per pop. They were heavily funded by Jeff Bezos of Amazon.com and the CIA. Lockheed Martin bought the first one and a university used one to solve complex equations that were not solvable until this thing came out.

http://www.dwavesys.com/


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Skoupi on August 13, 2014, 11:17:08 PM
I will start worrying (and educating myself) about quantum computers when they start factoring very large numbers. Until then...same category as interdimensional aliens using advanced technology to hijack the blockchain.

It has already been done. So start worrying.
I believe that the NSA has already developed/purchased to help them handle all their data they get from their spying programs. I believe it was also very expensive (in the billions of dollars).

Actually a Canadian Company developed them at $10 million per pop. They were heavily funded by Jeff Bezos of Amazon.com and the CIA. Lockheed Martin bought the first one and a university used one to solve complex equations that were not solvable until this thing came out.

http://www.dwavesys.com/

The majority of the scientific community laughs on this project for almost 10 years now.
It's not quantum. Both in theory and practice.
Actually in practice things are even worse with generic computers outperforming d-wave in many cases.

Get over it. There is no quantum computing. There is research but atm with zero results.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: coinits on August 13, 2014, 11:26:24 PM
I will start worrying (and educating myself) about quantum computers when they start factoring very large numbers. Until then...same category as interdimensional aliens using advanced technology to hijack the blockchain.

It has already been done. So start worrying.
I believe that the NSA has already developed/purchased to help them handle all their data they get from their spying programs. I believe it was also very expensive (in the billions of dollars).

Actually a Canadian Company developed them at $10 million per pop. They were heavily funded by Jeff Bezos of Amazon.com and the CIA. Lockheed Martin bought the first one and a university used one to solve complex equations that were not solvable until this thing came out.

http://www.dwavesys.com/

The majority of the scientific community laughs on this project for almost 10 years now.
It's not quantum. Both in theory and practice.
Actually in practice things are even worse with generic computers outperforming d-wave in many cases.

Get over it. There is no quantum computing. There is research but atm with zero results.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/bsflag.gif


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: jonald_fyookball on August 14, 2014, 01:01:23 AM
what are you saying is BS?


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: coinits on August 14, 2014, 01:07:36 AM
what are you saying is BS?

Everything that he said is 100% bullshit. I did the research and he is pulling stuff out of his ass.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: jonald_fyookball on August 14, 2014, 01:19:58 AM
what are you saying is BS?

Everything that he said is 100% bullshit. I did the research and he is pulling stuff out of his ass.

What did you find?  According to wikipedia, 143 is the largest number ever factored
by a quantum machine.  To me, that counts pretty much as "zero results".


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Skoupi on August 14, 2014, 02:19:15 AM
what are you saying is BS?

Everything that he said is 100% bullshit. I did the research and he is pulling stuff out of his ass.

Look more bullshit:
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6190/1330.summary


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Cortex7 on August 14, 2014, 02:34:03 AM
what are you saying is BS?

Everything that he said is 100% bullshit. I did the research and he is pulling stuff out of his ass.

What did you find?  According to wikipedia, 143 is the largest number ever factored
by a quantum machine.  To me, that counts pretty much as "zero results".

The example in wikepedia concerns sampling raw qbits (like D-Wave does).

The factoring result was stated with X% certainty, where X was <50%, I can't remember the number.

The output was a gaussian spread over discreet bins after multiple runs, the highest bin being the result.

The trouble being that the act of sampling the qbit almost destroys all info, the quantum state being so fragile, many samples are needed to get a result over the noise floor.

However steps are being made toward a "logical qbit" and if it does as advertised then a 2^N number could be factored with one pass on a N qbit system, with 100% certainty.

I think John Martinis is the world leader in this field.

He gives a very nice presentation, covering QC 101 and also the very latest work (logical qbit) that he is doing, well worth a watch for anyone interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQmFEt6l6Tw


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Vortex20000 on August 14, 2014, 08:15:12 AM
I want a quantum computer now.

Time to become a multi-bilionaire.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Truecoin on August 14, 2014, 09:50:39 AM
I want a quantum computer now.

Time to become a multi-bilionaire.

Quantum computer is not (yet) something that Average Joe can go and buy. At the moment it is more government stuff: "According to documents provided by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, the effort to build “a cryptologically useful quantum computer” — a machine exponentially faster than classical computers — is part of a $79.7 million research program titled “Penetrating Hard Targets.” Much of the work is hosted under classified contracts at a laboratory in College Park, Md."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-seeks-to-build-quantum-computer-that-could-crack-most-types-of-encryption/2014/01/02/8fff297e-7195-11e3-8def-a33011492df2_story.html





Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: heybigboy1 on August 14, 2014, 10:01:22 AM
I've also wondered the same thing a while back when doing homework on Quantum computers.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Truecoin on August 14, 2014, 10:14:08 AM
If you are interested in programming you can already start to develop your own quantum computer software (and test it with conventional computer): http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~oemer/qcl.html



Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: BTCtalkScammerDetective on August 14, 2014, 10:54:44 AM
I want a quantum computer now.

Time to become a multi-bilionaire.

To be able to get one you would need to be a multi millionaire.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: RedDiamond on August 14, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
I will start worrying (and educating myself) about quantum computers when they start factoring very large numbers. Until then...same category as interdimensional aliens using advanced technology to hijack the blockchain.

If you really want to educate yourself here is a qcl implementation for Shor's algorithm for quantum factorization (http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~oemer/doc/quprog/node18.html):

Code:

procedure shor(int number) {
  int width=ceil(log(number,2));   // size of number in bits
  qureg reg1[2*width];             // first register
  qureg reg2[width];               // second register
  int qmax=2^width;
  int factor;                      // found factor
  int m; real c;                   // measured value
  int x;                           // base of exponentiation
  int p; int q;                    // rational approximation p/q
  int a; int b;                    // possible factors of number
  int e;                           // e=x^(q/2) mod number

  if number mod 2 == 0 { exit "number must be odd"; }
  if testprime(number) { exit "prime number"; }
  if testprimepower(number) { exit "prime power"; };

  {
    {                              // generate random base
      x=floor(random()*(number-3))+2;
    } until gcd(x,number)==1;
    print "chosen random x =",x;
    Mix(reg1);                     // Hadamard transform
    expn(x,number,reg1,reg2);      // modular exponentiation
    measure reg2;                  // measure 2nd register
    dft(reg1);                     // Fourier transform
    measure reg1,m;                // measure 1st register
    reset;                         // clear local registers

    if m==0 {                      // failed if measured 0
      print "measured zero in 1st register. trying again ...";
    } else {
      c=m*0.5^(2*width);           // fixed point form of m
      q=denominator(c,qmax);       // find rational approximation
      p=floor(q*m*c+0.5);
      print "measured",m,", approximation for",c,"is",p,"/",q;
      if q mod 2==1 and 2*q<qmax { // odd q ? try expanding p/q
        print "odd denominator, expanding by 2";
        p=2*p; q=2*q;
      }
      if q mod 2==1 {              // failed if odd q
        print "odd period. trying again ...";
      } else {
        print "possible period is",q;
        e=powmod(x,q/2,number);    // calculate candidates for
        a=(e+1) mod number;        // possible common factors
        b=(e+number-1) mod number; // with number
        print x,"^",q/2,"+ 1 mod",number,"=",a,",",
              x,"^",q/2,"- 1 mod",number,"=",b;
        factor=max(gcd(number,a),gcd(number,b));
      }
    }
  } until factor>1 and factor<number;  
  print number,"=",factor,"*",number/factor;
}

So not so alien  :)


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Ayers on August 14, 2014, 03:11:56 PM
I want a quantum computer now.

Time to become a multi-bilionaire.

you can't brute force the private key even with those beast, so relax


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: jonald_fyookball on August 14, 2014, 03:18:28 PM
I want a quantum computer now.

Time to become a multi-bilionaire.

you can't brute force the private key even with those beast, so relax

All the kings horses and all the king's men,
couldn't put Satoshi's private keys together again.  ;D


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Bitcoin Magazine on August 14, 2014, 03:27:29 PM
seeing "demoniator" made me think of this Home IMprovement sketch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMLZexFH50c


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Este Nuno on August 14, 2014, 04:58:13 PM
If quantum computers really going to exist, we will need to update our crypto protocols to stronger ones(SHA-1024)?

But the same crypto technology still can be used, so we will only need some adaptation after the panic wave

If they really can break one-way mathematical functions, just updating to a more complex one doesn't work... It's a question of what exactly will be possible with quantum computers.

sigh...already been discussed to death in other threads.

there is no known or even theorized quantum algo or speedup for breaking one way functions.
only ECDSA.

Yeah: no _known_! Like I said, we'll probably be safe off, but can't be sure since something just _might_ come around the corner and prove our current systems to be flawed. It wouldn't be the first time that happened with some technology!

It is definitely something to keep in mind. A lot of people seem to dismiss it outright but really it's kind of a big deal.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: RedDiamond on August 14, 2014, 05:23:48 PM
There is a good article in Bitcoin Magazine "Bitcoin Is Not Quantum-Safe, And How We Can Fix It When Needed" by Vitalik Buterin: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6021/bitcoin-is-not-quantum-safe-and-how-we-can-fix/

"In the past year or so, it has come to be a known fact in Bitcoin technical circles that Bitcoin, in its current form, is partially quantum-safe"


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Ayers on August 14, 2014, 06:16:12 PM
There is a good article in Bitcoin Magazine "Bitcoin Is Not Quantum-Safe, And How We Can Fix It When Needed" by Vitalik Buterin: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6021/bitcoin-is-not-quantum-safe-and-how-we-can-fix/

"In the past year or so, it has come to be a known fact in Bitcoin technical circles that Bitcoin, in its current form, is partially quantum-safe"


only the public key is not safe, the private is safe, the public key is not safe if you send money, otherwise even that is safe


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: Sitarow on August 14, 2014, 10:44:09 PM
Guys i wanted to discuss about quantum computers, How will they affect BTC

1st thing is that these computers will be 1000s of times faster than the current super computer so my question is what will happen to the difficulty if it rises like a rocket then the price of BTC will also rise like a rocket?

2nd thing is hacking, When these computers get to the consumer market won't hacking become a problem?

Edit: One more question will this also mean the 21 million bitcoins will be made faster?

For now i have got these points i will edit as the post progresses.

Maybe you will enjoy what will happen to a very old Bitcoin clone:
iXcoin IXC  ;) : a 3 years time tested coin, like Bitcoin but bravely ending mining on Oct 2014: it will be interesting to see what happens.
If no one uses it for trade and if it's not a trusted network then it is nothing more then a legacy protocol.

Bitcoin is different as it takes into account  sinergy of variables that keeps it improving with use


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: zedicus on August 14, 2014, 11:45:28 PM
what are you saying is BS?

Everything that he said is 100% bullshit. I did the research and he is pulling stuff out of his ass.

What did you find?  According to wikipedia, 143 is the largest number ever factored
by a quantum machine.  To me, that counts pretty much as "zero results".
Wikipedia is not a reliable source as anyone can change a wikipedia article. I would say that the largest number ever factored by a quantum computer is much larger then 143, likely millions of times larger. Most personal computers/laptop could likely factor much larger numbers.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: jonald_fyookball on August 15, 2014, 12:20:27 AM
what are you saying is BS?

Everything that he said is 100% bullshit. I did the research and he is pulling stuff out of his ass.

What did you find?  According to wikipedia, 143 is the largest number ever factored
by a quantum machine.  To me, that counts pretty much as "zero results".
Wikipedia is not a reliable source as anyone can change a wikipedia article. I would say that the largest number ever factored by a quantum computer is much larger then 143, likely millions of times larger. Most personal computers/laptop could likely factor much larger numbers.

That's a baseless opinion.

You're missing the point:  If personal computers can factor bigger numbers, then quantum
computers are LESS effective than classical computers because the technology doesn't currently
work at any scale.  

Although I do agree, wikipedia can't always be trusted.



Title: Re: Quantum Computer.
Post by: evoked22 on August 15, 2014, 01:34:44 AM
I am sure they would have a much better use for this quantum computer than to attempt to ruin and capture a currency that is used all over. They could use the same computer to take over global finances, stocks and shares along with many other things.

I think all will be fine :)

Shed some light on this if you think otherwise.


Title: Re: Quantum Computer
Post by: BusyBeaverHP on November 29, 2014, 09:37:12 AM
New largest number factored on a quantum device is now 56,153.

http://phys.org/news/2014-11-largest-factored-quantum-device.html

"Researchers have set a new record for the quantum factorization of the largest number to date, 56,153, smashing the previous record of 143 that was set in 2012. They have shown that the exact same room-temperature nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) experiment used to factor 143 can actually factor an entire class of numbers, although this was not known until now. Because this computation, which is based on a minimization algorithm involving 4 qubits, does not require prior knowledge of the answer, it outperforms all implementations of Shor's algorithm to date, which do require prior knowledge of the answer. Expanding on this method, the researchers also theoretically show how the same minimization algorithm can be used to factor even larger numbers, such as 291,311, with only 6 qubits."