Bitcoin Forum

Has anyone had problems with GAW Miners?
I have ordered an SP30 from them when they were advertising 6TH/s @ $5095 (September batch 1 pre-order), order all paid for upfront.

I have posted a support ticket asking what credit/refund arrangements are they planning since the spec has been reduced to 4.5TH/s and Spondoolies are offering a new price of $3895.

They are not responding to any support tickets or emails.

Just thought I would share this with the community as a warning.

This is anectodal, so please take it with a grain of salt.

From what I have heard, gaw has pretty good customer service and offers miners with instant hosting activation (which really comes online within the 24h period).

As GAW also allows you to use credit cards and paypal, did you by chance use one of these payment options?


While spondoolies itself is a pretty solid company with excellent ethics, they are not quite sure yet as to how much compensation the customers deserve.

Because you ordered from GAW, your right of cancellation (due to very different specs) aswell as compensation should be much easier to enforce (I am not saying you will have to use legal force) .

I paid with credit card, I'm quite happy with keeping the pre-order (if they can credit the $1200 difference), however I am a little concerned with the radio silence, I was hoping to order more from these guys but their internal comms/infrastructure looks a bit suspect  :/

I obviously don´t know about that.

I know that they are said to be quite an amazing and reputable reseller / manufacturer of mining hardware.

As Guy (from spondoolies) hasn´t announced the exact amount of compensation yet, I guess gaw will not state the exact amount either (which is why you are not getting a clear response yet).

Thanks Collider, I will wait and see what happens and update this thread over the next few weeks.
If anybody else is in the same boat r.e. ordering an SP30 from GAW, feel free to update this thread with any useful info. Thx  :)

The only way you'll get any answers is if you get with Amber,she's the only person there that actually responds in any timely manner,thier support tickets are extremely slow  ::)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=698679.0;all

read my zen thread.  they are pretty good. try sending a pm to


GAW Miners_CEO  his profile is here:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=321841

keep calm. customer support at gaw is very good. but they are very busy at the moment, many projects..
i could refund two antminer S3 preorders ( each 600 usd ), just to buy the same day instant activated miners for 550 usd
you could also use the chatbox on the lower left corner at gawminers.com

Thanks for the info. I tried that chat window thing, it always says nobody is available and to leave a message, which takes you to the support tickets which nobody looks at.
I will PM their CEO, thanks for the link  :)

Why not buy S3 directly from manufacturer?

Because Gaw miners provides free hosting for 1 month.This might be the reason to buy from gaw.  ;D

Well, it isn´t exactly free, it is just included in the price (so is the PSU when hosting).

You also have no minimum order quantity, and they were/ are available for 480$ on ZenMiner.

they also have a large website at this link




https://hashtalk.org/  


 and the spon sp30's have a thread that i just started.

you could sign into hashtalk and post on the thread below

https://hashtalk.org/t/is-the-sp30-to-be-hosted-on-the-zen-cloud/5437

Problem is not with GAW or ST, problem is trying to guess what the unit price is going to settle at comes shipping time... By september / october (guessing here) those units may be offered at 30% - 40% discount of today's price. When this happens we are going to be back here blaming everybody but ourselves for falling into the same trap yet again. Sorry, if this sounds harsh - just some bad memories. 

pretty sure they offer activation within 24 hours or the miner is free.   I'd get a refund if possible and just get a bunch of s3's that would be hashing by tomorrow!

I went the route of s-3's not the sp30.

Been a customer since day 1 of their business. They have always made right, but sometimes it can be a challenge to get things straightened out.

If you have an immediate issue, it is best to call them. Try to get Amber or Josh.

I had a bad experience with a pre-order and late shipping with GAW.  Communication was horrible with them and emails went unanswered for a week and when they did answer they just asked me another question about my question to delay so another week went by.  Basically they promised shipping by x date.  On x date they created a shipping waybill and sent me the tracking number trying to make it seem like they shipped the product.  Well the FedEx tracking number they sent me just said that they created the shipping but never actually shipped the item.  They physically presented the item to FedEx a week later.  In the end I did get my miner late.  When I complained they promised that somebody else would contact me with information about compensation but that never happened and they closed my ticket of course.  I was one of the suckers burned on the Fury.  Pre-ordered it for $109 but by the time I got mine they were down to $80 and now you see them on their site for $35 sometimes (Oneminer).  I'm sure if I pushed the issue with them they would get me my compensation, but with scrypt mining rates in the toilet my time is worth more than that. 

That sounds like my story.........but I kept at it & got my compensation  ;)  Like I said Amber was the only one who I could communicate with & her hands were tied as to getting anything accomplished  ::)

I've moved on to Zoomhash,they actually answer their phone & communicate very well & shipped my units in a very timely manner  8)

Gonna give ZigHash a try,they take Paypal,like Zoomhash does  ;)  Let ya know how that goes in a few days.

Same experience here, Gaw emailed FedEx tracking number, but didn't actually hand the miner to FedEx until next week. It took over two weeks for delivery.

I have exactly the same problem except I've been waiting 3 weeks now, am onto my second tracking number and it still says "Initiated" not actually collected by FEDEX, which means it hasnt actually been shipped yet :(

Things are not that good right now, all I can chalk it up to is that the owner is not focused on the core business. There's a lot of marketing, advertising, new incentive programs, and things like that going on (such as the purchase of btc.com for a million bucks).  Support questions go on unanswered for weeks, they tell you to go on hashtalk for "community support", equipment does not ship on time. They also recently merged with zenminer and so the cloud management software they have is a mess at the moment, incorrect charges are appearing, bugs with maintenance fees, coupons raise the cost of an item rather than subtract. Right now, they want customers to leave bitcoins deposited for "points" that you can trade in, but they haven't disclosed how bitcoins will be secured and why they want customers to leave bitcoins in accounts there. I'm waiting for my miners to be delivered like other posters here and once they are I'll move on. They also got into some weird fight with Gridseed that made no sense either with lots of allegations. The owner is giving bluster to KNC right now about pre-orders for the Titan product, but they have a pre-order miner (Vaultbreaker) that they haven't delivered yet either. It's a giant windstorm of nonsense and meanwhile customers like us are paying the price while their management is heavily distracted. Also, they have their staff in these forums peppering threads and urging people over to hashtalk for answers... it just ain't right.

The issue here is that GAW offered a product where they stated the exact specs (6TH/s), if they then supply the product with 4.5 TH/s, this would demonstrate false advertising. This is the risk they have taken as a distributor by advertising the original SP30 specification as provided by Spondoolies and then taking credit card orders for it.

I received an update to my helpdesk ticket last night saying an announcement will be made in 24 hours, regarding plan of action from the CEO at GAW.

GAW acted as a reseller and used specs provided by the manufacturer. SP tech changed the specs last week and so did GAW.
You can read about it here: http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/blogs/news/14979953-introducing-the-sp30

I'm guessing they have their hosting center full of Vaultbreakers at the moment and they're mining scrypt coins to death before releasing them to the consumers.  I'm curious to see what they do with all their purchases, but I'm guessing they're expanding too fast.  If they can't get shipping their products down or have the man power to handle support then this has failure written all over it.

Glad to hear you got your compensation.  The frustration just wasn't worth the hassle to me.  One of the reasons I went with GAW in the first place was that they were one of the few places that accept credit cards.  I also ended up getting an Antminer S3 through them again because of the credit card payment, but let me know how it works out with ZigHash since they take Paypal.  It'll be nice to have options.  As far as the Antminer goes, it came with one month free hosting which seems to be going well for now.  The order came up within 24 hours and it's hashing away, but the statistics seem to be lacking.  Payouts are once a day and all you can see is your hash rate and which pool you picked.  Everything else is pretty much invisible.  You don't enter your own account or worker info so basically it is on the honor system that they are paying you the correct amount.  Now my next worry is how much of a hassle it is going to be to get my miner shipped to me once the free month is up.

Thanks, one my threads asking about security of bitcoins kept at GAW was closed on hashtalk. They want customers to keep bitcoins there and get "rewards" and up to 11% back for keeping them stored there. Naturally, I wanted to know if they were planning on using customer deposits to fund investments and how coins would be secured. So what happened, the owner of GAW closed the thread.  Not a good sign...

NEVER trust ANYONE with your BTC !!!!!!!!! It's happened with many exchanges/online wallet sites,OOPPS sorry we lost your BTC in a hack...........  ::)

Keep them in a wallet on YOUR PC,encrypt it BEFORE you put BTC in,in case you got the password wrong  ;)

Watching closely but so far my experience has been positive

they provided me a free raspberry Pi- unsolicited - as a "thanks" for purchasing scrypt miners

I had an issue where the price of my pre-purchase hosted S3 fell on their site before they turned mine up....they credited me the difference in a coupon

they provided me a free hosted GAW scrypt miner as an "appreciation"

turned up my purchased scrypt miners that I ordered with the above coupon within minutes

just cashed out my BTC balance to see if concerns about payouts in this thread were warranted....payout went immediately.


That said, I have some lingering concerns.....their hosting only points to their workers and they pay you a percentage based on your hash rate.  While this seems to have worked in my favor so far, I would really rather that they let me point my hosted miners to my workers so I can track more closely

They do show daily payouts in their Zencloud panel - which isn't bad - but I would rather they show block payouts for the pools so the process is more transparent

so far, over the past few weeks, even though I have concerns and will continue to watch closely, is that their hosting is a pretty decent value and they have rather good tools.

Let's hope they continue this trend and improve as well

I would recommend that no one keep coins online there to avoid having your BTC at risk.  Marketing hype is not a security standard.

my primary concern is delivery of the hosted equipment.  They say they will ship when I ask but given that they turned it up within minutes leads me to believe that I am not mining on my "purchased miner'....don't get me wrong, I appreciate that I begin mining nearly immediately, but I am curious to see what happens when I ask them to ship it to me.

I've been waiting 3 weeks plus for my Black Widow, and an "appreciation" fury just appeared in my cloud account...... hush money?, I think so!!

And we should trust you why ?

JennaK
Trust: -11: -2 / +0(0)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!

So do you have any evidence of your claims?

This guy is an alt account of the OP of the above thread and a spammer, which was pointed out by another user.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=537912.msg8150574#msg8150574
Idiot can't even write a coherent sentence, pathetic.

I observe GAW's threads for some time. Apparently it seems that some people wants to discredit this company and blame it for everything. Vast majority of people has no problem at all with their miners. If you think you can have perfect products which never breaks down think again because everything can break down in this world. The only difference is how company can handle customer support and I see GAW can handle people pretty well.

I am running a zen thread reporting on gaw miners.   they are okay.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=698679.0;all


I moderated it since I was going to delete  haters but the thread does not get haters. So take what you will.

 I have to say one thing I empty my zen account after coins come into it.  They now offer a deal like interest if you leave coins in.

 I have been burned by online hacks:

 BIPS  owes me .39 btc at 1100usd price  or about 400 bucks that I will never see.


If you feel like leaving money in the zen account you get 5-6% on it. NOT for my taste.

I had. I've posted my sad refund story already somewhere here... Yes, they refunded me, but it took a month and I lost some BTCs because of... What would you think?.. BTC to USD convert ratio changes! Looks that they intentionally waited for this...

Of course cute Amber apologized for this incident, but...  :-\

Waited for what? The prices to change? If you lost BTC then it means the price went up and you got less for the $ if it by any chance went down you'd have received more BTC.
This is completely normal for a bitcoin businesses that pays taxes and bills in USD. It's also safer for them as BTC still unstable.

I don't see how this is relevant. The discussion is about what will happen with existing GAW orders (paid in full) before the spec was changed and what refund approach will be offered to customers.

It is relevant because you just said they did false advertising while in fact they had no way of predicting the manufacturer will change the specs. Everybody who ordered miners from SP tech faced the same problem. As for the refund why not just ask them directly on the forum?

Depends how you define your miner.  I'm assuming that they don't just store inventory on a warehouse shelf.  I'm guessing that as soon as product comes in they start working on getting them mining.  That's how they can just about instantly activate your "new order".  Or it could just be one giant hash pool that they have and they just have something running on zen miner that carves out the hash rate of the miner you bought and draws out a pretend graph with a plus or minus variance to make it look like an actual miner.  That's why I would like to see a little more transparency on zen miners and the ability to mine directly into a pool of your choice and directly into your own wallet.  Why shouldn't people be able to mine on a pool of their choice and enter backup pools of their choice and directly into their own wallets?

Hello!!

I am sincerely sorry for the delay in communication. I would be happy to get things moving along for you.

Can you please email me your order and ticket number at amber@gawminers.com

Sincerely,
Amber

Hi!

I would be happy to look into the status of your delivery. Please email me your order number at amber@gawminers.com.

Sincerely,
Amber

I have purchased just over 3.2Gh scrypt from GAW to date. There have been a few small bumps in the road, yes. They may have some delays in getting to your ticket. Afterall, the company does some pretty INSANE volume. But they have ALWAYS come through for me in the end. Bar none, no excuses, they come through. Try getting compensated for late delivery from another reseller and let me know how it goes! :) Try getting a refund for your KNC Titan, BFL Monarch, Alpha Tech, Flower Tech, etc. The list goes on! GAW is the only company that I know of who will make good on a pre-order refund and/or work with you to make it right.

It's no secret the manufacturer is having trouble with the SP30. Unfortunately this is NOT uncommon. Look at what just happened with the S3 miners? Pre-order hashrates are subject to change, like it or not. Your ordering a product that DOES NOT EXIST yet.

Thanks, email sent

I don't agree. If a company advertises in black and white to sell a product with specifications and price stated clearly, they have to honour that order. If they cannot due to manufacturer issues (between GAW and Spondoolies) this is not my problem at all. I expect a refund option or credit option for the difference in specification, from GAW, not Spondoolies. This is consumer law, as the contract of sale is between me and GAW.

Very reasonable opinion.  ::)

Question for you champ: do you really think GAW has the cash reserves to bail everyone out? What makes you think they won't just fold and declare bankruptcy instead?

You will not be the first person to be burned by an asic company under-delivering nor will you be the last. You can either whine about it, making ridiculous demands of GAW (who are simply acting as a middle man), or you can get on with it and try to minimize your losses.  

Having a mining community forum helps mitigate against buyers getting burned as we can all share our experience of sellers. The above text about bankruptcy and ridiculous demands, really?  I don't consider a refund/credit being a ridiculous demand, unless you are dealing with a shady company, hence my first point.

Josh and Amber have been in touch from GAW, regarding the SP30. I will let you know how I get on.    

dr gero is right.

Legally speaking, it is gaw´s responsibility to deliver product as advertised or give the client the option for a refund (or try and compensate the customer for the different specs, this needs customer approval though).

Hi All,

We have addressed all of our Customers that have purchased the SP30 before the specification change.

Thank you for sharing your concerns, we will make this right.

Stay GAWsome!
 :) Amber

@customers with these orders

Would you care to share the amount of compensation that has been offered?

Hat's off to GAW Miners, they are offering to credit the difference between the old and new price e.g. choice of $1200 refund (or BTC if ordered in BTC) or store credit, for customers that ordered via GAW.

I received the email myself and can only say a big thanks to Amber and Josh for sorting this out for all those involved.

Hi,

    Maybe I'm a bit impatient, but I've been waiting for over a week for the items I've purchased to leave their warehouse. The items said "same day shipping" on their web-site, but they have completely missed that. I've made calls, and received responses saying that they should ship "today", but that wasn't true. I've e-mailed them, and received replies that they would check into it, but I've received nothing since then.

    Well, that was a wasted week. I've cancelled my orders, and hopefully I won't have to spend any additional time trying to wrap up that purchasing nightmare.

    Unless you are more patient than I am, and certainly don't believe that "same day" means plus or minus "x" number of days, I can't recommend purchasing from these folks.

Hello,
I would be happy to look into your order to make sure the rest of your experience runs smoothly! Please let me know what your order number is. I am sincerely sorry for the delay in shipping. Your order should have been shipped out same day as advertised. I will be looking into this: ) thank you for bringing this to our attention!
Sincerely,
Amber
amber@gawminers.com

I love that company! Preordered a fury and some time later I came out of money, so till 2 hours of the batch shipping Amanda cancelled and refunded my order. Very nice support, but I knocked to them almost a day.

Hello !

I saw the GAW's new product, the Hashlet.
There are some info I can't find about this.
I was on chat with the support from GAW, but I had bad luck to encounter a totally "grunt", who started to work from.. yesterday...

OK, I want to know :
- If there is possible to mine Bitcoins with the Hashlet. Or another algo (ex.: X11) , like GAW advertised on the announce.
- how much it is the maintenance fee ?
- if it is possible to use Hashlet to mine for Bitcoins, how much hashing power (GH/s, TH/s) you will get for a max size Hashlet ? Right now you can get 100 MH/s @ $1599.99 
-it is the Hashlet a combo-miner like the early Gridseed units or you must use diff type of Hashlet (designed for scrypt / SHA256)?
-it is Hashlet like the CEX.io , where you can buy GH/s and keep or trade it for a undefined period of time, or it is just another cloud mining contract ?

If you don't know the answer, please provide me at least an email to contact GAW. I already wrote a ticket about this couple days ago, but nobody replied me..

maintance fee is 0.0008/MH/day but it is subject to change
price of Mh is 15.99$
you are mining bitcoins via scrypt coins using hashlet (new algos in development)

I believed that they will use Antminer S3 / SP30 for mining directly Bitcoins...  :-\

How can scrypt miners mine bitcoin? If that is actually the case, then 10Mh cant mine much and break even can it?

they mine scrypt coins and exchange them into bitcoins :)

gaw miners takes half of what you mine and keeps it for themselves

Today at 2:50 PM   Payout   0.00040279 BTC   
Today at 2:50 PM   Maintenance Fee      -0.00023176 BTC
Today at 2:50 PM   Payout   0.00037339 BTC   
Today at 2:50 PM   Maintenance Fee      -0.00023176 BTC

worst customer service ever....if you believe they are legit try going on there hashtalk site and pointing out to them that they are taking half of your mining profits. they will ban you so fast. the whole site is fake posotive trolling. they list there fees by the day, like 8 cents a day per gh (insane) which is double the price of residential electric and if u had 30 gh you would be paying double plus buying them a hashlet per month...sorry buy that is more than maintenance fees. its a rip off

The maintenance fee is based on the current BTC/USD rate... so when BTC is down against the dollar, you earn less.  It's simple math.

By the way, what poor hashlet did you buy?  The Zen Hashlet pays out the most... that's what you should have bought.


Also... the 8 cents a day is more than just electric.  It pays for cooling, salaries, 100% uptime, software development, and a lot more.  But hey... if you want to go out and buy physical hardware, set it up, bounce around to different pools to find a good payout, deal with power outages, or network outages, or a hundred other things that can go wrong with home mining... sell me your hashlets cheap.  :)

It is not really accurate to say they are keeping the maintenance fee to themselves. This is what they charge to keep your miners running, mainly electricity. As mentioned above, the BTC amount of your fee will depend on the price of bitcoin as they have to pay their bills in terms of dollars.

You should also remember that they continue to put more efficient miners on their pool, making the maintenance fee go down over time

if i read the TOS correctly there are no real miners.  it states they are virtual. 

That's because they used to host the miners they were selling and allow people to have them shipped if they wanted to resign from hosting services.
GAW advertised Hashlets as "cloud miners" which was a bit confusing and people thought they own real hardware that can be shipped to them, which of course wasn't true, so they said the miners are virtual.

no the maintenance fee has not gone down once since i started- not once at all since the start.. this is fake pro positive trolling the same thing they do on their own forum... it is not legit... they should not be making a buck off of hosting and then try and sell the idea that the cost is maintenance... its profit....yes you can buy a miner and if it runs 1 year you would make 4 times what u would get from gaw... but my point is that when the calculations are performed , and i have posted them-i dont have time to now- that the math is never wrong and therefore if they were not being dishonest it would not matter to post those results on the forum... but fake positive trolling is not legit facts, 10% tops. there original release was 2% and thats from gaw themselves. so dont tell me 50% is necessary

its kinda weird ... people sound like they are disagreeing with you but then they prove the point i am trying to make in the process

oooooook guys... Calm down, I'll answer one by one to you.

First


1. Yes. With the Genesis Hashlet you mine directly in Bitcoin pools, the 3 available pools are Guild, Hash and Multi. With all the other Hashlets you mine in Altcoin pools, but you get paid in Bitcoins. I may suggest you to check my Tutorial Screenshots on my blog.
2. 0.08/MH  ( Altcoin - Zen, Prime, Clever, Multi, Waffle Hashlets ) , 0.01/ 5 GH ( Genesis Hashlet is 10 GH )
3. First the hardware used to mine Bitcoins is different than Altcoins. Sky is the limit for the Hashlets quantity and size :)
4.Only the Prime Hashlets at the moment can mine in the pools you want, and you can do some double pool hashing called Double Dipping. Tonight there will be an announcement with GAWMiners CEO, and October 26th Project Prime will be released on www.btc.com, we don't have any news about the new features of Project Prime.
5. What I like the most from GAWMiners is that you have your Hashlets for life. You can even sell your Hashlets back in the Hash Market  when you want :)

Is your ticket answered ?

cxboyminer, In fact you can mine both.

True and False. You get about the same abouts in Bitcoin, but when the Bitcoin price is low, simply don't touch your money until the Bitcoin price as gone to normal. ( Bitstamp )

For the rest I think your right.

Your Hashlets are virtual, GAWMiners use real mining hardware. Nothing to program, just pay-activate-earn.

It's $0.01 / 5GH/s per day for the Genesis... so $2.00 per day per 1TH/s.

Edited, Thank you jonnybravo0311

No problem... didn't want people to misquote you later and say how high the fees are.

True

that is bs. you dont pay salaries out of peoples mining. 28nm chips making 120mh would be about 400 watts at the wall without the added benefit of running professional grade power supplies and using efficiency measures, tax breaks,hi use contracts. at 0.10 per kwh that is $28 a month... 120 * 0.08*30days= 288 dollars.so 288-28=260 that is proportional regardless of the mh you are using... so they would be taking $260 a month(just dollars for u people who kept talking dollars)..SORRY THAT IS THEFT. stay away from gaw till they have open fair discussions  , NEVER NEVER NEVER, is that ok. u guys are fake positive trolling. i am not trolling i am saying those calculations are not permitted on their forum-BECAUSE THEY ARE REAL.  after electric for something that just sits and runs u shouldn't have to pay gaw (13*20=260) 13 brand new hashlets a month to take care of your hosting. for this calculation i would say $20 is more than generous.  so $48 a month for for 120mh would be appropriate which would be 0.013 cents per day per mh... way fare..they get maintenance  covered (still pocket a little ie maintenance) and people who hear 8cents and dont do the math are not taken advantage of and gaw still rakes it in

So you bought shares and are unhappy with the fees? I don't think this subject is open for a discussion. They can choose whatever price they wish and the free market will regulate it. If there's a lot of demand they will keep the prices, if not and the competition pays beter, they will do what they can to lower them, or go out of business.
What you're doing here is trying to make them lower the fees, which is completely pointless.

There are many comparisons between GAW and other cloud mining companies, and I can already tell you that GAW pays a bit better than others, but the numbers are pretty similar, so they all must be unfair.
You can always get rid of them and move on. I'm sure other fair mining companies will welcome you with open arms.

ah ha- so you have just admitted i am right. it is also not open market practices if the truth is not able to be freely discussed. they have booted people for talkind about it. if people talk about it- then others hear about it- then they to stop buying-then gaw has to adjust its practices or loose market share-THAT IS OPEN MARKET- and if they dont like it they should leave. but at every step of the way THIS should be brought up. (they sell there products under mining hardware on their site and under hosted.) so they are hosting. they also said, as pointed out by others besides me, that hosting costs would drop as new miners were added- new miners were added and the cost did not drop- that is dishonest- if they have nothing to hide then people can talk freely on the forum- but they ARE hiding the truth...BUYIN GAW 13 miners A month (after electric) for a 120mh contract and saying that it is maintenance- is a lie. The money they spend covering up there tracks with planted posters and fake trolls should stay with the mh owners. it is illogical that somebody would argue with this without an underlying dishonest motive.

Why don't you rephrase that, nobody's going to read through this gibberish. If you don't even care to start a sentence with a capital letter don't expect others to care for its meaning.

Yeah they take the fees for electricity hosting and webhosting... To get something finally simple yes I like it.

By the way today the MultiHashlet got for the first time a negative payout and GAW will fix the maintenance fee and make something else for us miners so that all Hashlets could stay profitable. I just want to say that yeah some Hashlets income can be compared to other cloud mining service, but I only recommend Zen Hashlet cause its the most ROI profitable.

What's so hard to understand that ZenCloud is a business?  They have to pay people's salaries, they have to pay for their rent, they have to pay for equipment, they have to pay for a lawyer, an accountant, a phone line, webhosting, and they have to pay for thousands of little things that business requires.  They never said it's only for electricity.

well u read it. if u did not u wouldnt have been avle to respond.



ONLY ON GAW CAN SOME BODY BE MINING AND GET A NEGATIVE PAYOUT. but it is all negative if they are taking your btc over the price of maintenance and electric. gaw's website should say "possible 100% fees"," we can literally say everything u mine is ours." 100% + is the only way to get negative payouts.  they have gone so far down hill that  that was able to happen. GAW has pushed so hard to remove logic from their forum that they believe there own propaganda. they constantly have people trolling making up "fake positive sentiment"  IF U Came ACROSS this DOING research before YOU BOUGHT, Congratulations. read the thread and you will see illogical gaw cheer leading (this is typical and bought and paid for by gaw). You will also see the truth about what they turned into. the prices seem low but you would have to pay $2.40 per mh a month. with difficulty rises u dont even make that per month. another good example is this if u had 100mh and never withdrew a single dollar and used every last bit of coin you made to buy more hashing(never taking out a single penny [ or satoshi]), one day you would have nothing. thats right u would be broke- everything would be gone. if u kept the original money and bought something at least you would have something to show for it. If gaw cared they would thank people who pointed this out to them. they would have threads on their forum dedicated to open, very honest, daily profit calculations. Why remove these calculations from there forum? instead they should promote them to show people how good they are. profiting is the only reason to mine. hashing your money till gaw employees take it all home in their pay checks makes no sense. It would be absurd of you to insist that mining with an insurmountable gap between "money in" and "profit out" is legit. i miss legit GAW. but they drank the koolaid hard. they have lost their minds as of now. i hope to see a huge outpouring of honesty by them. when i sing their praise you know it will be real not brainwashing. i love everybody at gaw but they took a dark turn and they would step on a miners head to take coins now

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they dont have to pay the people who actually bought hashing. obvious gaw employee here

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hmmmm,  ???... evrybody is so concerned with the big guy. nothing about great service for the miner here. doing things on a large scale decreases costs. ie makes it better than doing it at home. not 10 times more expensive.

    The bottom line is this Gaw charges 10 cents a kwatt to host.
 If your power cost at home is under 10 cents do not use them. In fact if you are in the USA and with the colder weather coming make it 11 or 12 cents a kwatt.

you are correct, although gaw is more eficient than doing it at home, ie it costs them less, yet they charge 10 times the cost of doing at home. and again i dont know why you would irrationally justify that, other than you are a paid lacky of gaw or bought into their brainwashing forum where all info is white washed. it wasn't stupid to buy from gaw if they honored there product release info and reduced costs so that the most paid for maintenance was the release date itself and things only got better from there. but they are taking over 10% which is theft.. things got so bad they took 100% of payouts(hashers got 0 btc)..FLAWED FLAWED FLAWED. THATS THEFT... there obviously should be entire threads on profits in there forum with calculations, the only reason not to would be  a dishonest reason. and the declining hosting fees should be extremely transparent, certainly not up even with conversions. and not over 0.013 or 10%. if they cant do business without taking hashing profits then they shouldn't have pretended to be in the business of doing that.

Gaw actually costs $.08 cents to host now but that is not the point. You are correct that you should not use them if you can buy electricity cheaper elsewhere however you fail to mention that the electric/maintenance cost of gaw miners will decrease over time as they socialize the older customers by adding more efficient hardware to what they sell and charge all customers the average price

What's with all the hate marthelo?

You've got some pretty interestingly flawed calculations of your own in your rant.  Agreeing with Phil that they charge $0.10/kWh to host and then stating they charge 10 times the cost of doing it at home implies you can get $0.01/kWh at home.  Good luck with that.

Hashlet Genesis is $.01 per 5 GH/s per day - or $2.00 per 1TH/s per day.  That's the equivalent of running 1W/GH/s (i.e. Antminer S2) equipment at $0.0835 power costs, or 0.78W/GH/s (i.e. Antminer S3) equipment at $0.107 power costs.

If your power costs are cheaper than that, by all means, run your own hardware.

Taking 10%, 20%, whatever percentage is not theft.  You purchase the hashlet, you agree to the fee structure.  It is plainly obvious to anyone who bothers to actually look at the fee structures that there can, and likely will, come a point where the fees are greater than the earnings from the miner.  This is absolutely no different than what happens to the home miner.  In fact, if you take a look at a number of threads right here in the Speculation forum, you'll see plenty of people debating whether or not they should keep their miners running.  The expectation is that as difficulty goes up, the value of BTC will correspondingly go up.  Sadly, this is not always the case.

Whether you purchase hardware and do it yourself from home, or you purchase cloud hashing, you are making an investment.  There is no guarantee that your investment will be profitable for you.

Yes this week the MultiHashlet got a negative payout, let's be honest. GAWMiners gave credit to everyone who has the Multihashlet, they want us to make money and will forever respect their value.

I'll continue with them, I'm making money.

It's easy to blame a company, at least blame with truth.

LTCGear has made their reputation, I give them that. But GAWMiners are slowly gaining a solid reputation too.

For all those that are not sure about the payout or whatever what with GAWMiners, Since a month I post my daily payout and I've included a tutorial on my blog and my facebook page. With all honesty I can say, that's work !

I'm new to the board but there's a lot more topics about GAW than LTCgear. Maybe this doesn't mean reputation, but GAW is certainly more popular.
I read about their million dollar transactions long before registering here.

If you are going to get into cloud mining then GAW is one of the few trustworthy (IMO) companies that you can invest in. They have been around for a long time and have had very few issues. They are large enough so that their actual mining ability cannot reasonably be put into question as anyone who owns any hashlets (their cloud miners) can see that the source of their bitcoin is from mined blocks.

Just wanted to share that problems I had with Gawminers solved and they refunded me the lost item and money.
have to be Honest they did what was right BUT after long long time and many emails telephones..

anyone know what's up with GAW site ?  also, why has splitting of hashlets been disabled ?   thanks

It's ok now.

nope, i still cannot split hashlets.

I totally agree with this, I have skin in both GAW and LTCgear, two very different products in my opinion. I am happy with both so far, there are Pro's and Con's to both also. GAW has better transparency and marketing, I feel safer investing with them, where as you get a better ROI with LTCgear but less Transparency it almost appears to be run by a one man band operation, however I received my fourth payout yesterday from LTCgear and Chris has been very quick to reply with any support queries etc. Both are excellent Cloud Mining companies in my opinion and I would recommend anyone that is thinking about getting into cloud mining to try either one of them.

gaw charges their water bill under pool fees...they did over 60% theft this week

+1
These companies are completely different, but both have proven to be legit and solvent. You really have to do the math and pick the contract you find most interesting.

If you want to purchase mining contract just choose wisely. It does not matter as long as pick some good reputable company from the top. Don't risk your money by sticking to some random less known business which can disappear tomorrow.

GAW attempted to scam me for several thousand dollars and it took about 2 months to get any kind of resolution. I order 3 war machines and got Zeus Lightning's in return. They did this to several customers (there's a thread over at Zeus about it). Finally when I threatened to file a fraud complaint with the FTC, things started to move quickly.  But in the end, all Zeus units arrived scratched, dusty, random used cables tossed in the box, in one case they sent me a Thunder X3 and tried to pawn it off as a Lightning X6 because "Lightning" was written in a grease pen on the side of the box. One of the Lightnings was different, it had a different form factor, chip voltages, and usb board. With no documentation or help from GAW it was a nightmare to find the correct version of cgminer (or bfgminer) and command line settings that would work with them. I'll never order from GAW again and would suggest others to stay away from them as well.  If you've been GAW'd, here are my suggestions:

1) Keep opening tickets with complaints (average response time is about 3 days)
2) Send photo’s of what you received to the support people and attach photos to the support tickets.
3) Tell them you’re going to file a fraud complaint with the FTC and your bank.
4) Calling them on the phone does no good, they tell you they will “have to get back to you” and never do.
5) Keep posting in the hashtalk forums with pictures of your order and the junk you may have received. Pictures is the key to hashtalk, otherwise the local yokels there will just ban you or delete your post.

You can contact Amber or Josh who will at least get someone to look at your ticket, but they don't resolve anything themselves. The elbow grease is done by other people, which isn't saying much considering how long it takes to get something done. What really burned my biscuits was to see Josh (the ceo) attend a bitcoin miners conference in Las Vegas on the customers dime.  Avoid doing business with these people, it wasn't worth it in my experience.

Attempted means that they finally didn't, right?

Here's a thread where you ask for help with a WAR MACHINE, so looks like you got it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=780710.msg8798630#msg8798630

From another perspective your order god mixed up and you got a different miner, but they finally sent you the real one.


You'd like Josh to personally go and pack your miner? This is a big company they have departments there responsible for certain things.
Please don't lie, he went to the conference on his own dime. An owner of one of the biggest cloud mining companies doesn't have to borrow cash for a local flight.

Is anyone of you on hashtalk forum active member?

Seems like a legit company I want to send my money to.

[/sarcasm]

yeah I am active here on this  and there on hashtalk.

I sold off 99% of gaw holding months ago.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=698679.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=743152.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=790207.msg8905466#msg8905466


They just kept changing the rules.  So I sold off almost everything I had with them.

well zen miner seems legit the problem its the stakers for XPY coin should be a coin of 20 dollaras a peace and now as become like 3 or 4 dollars a piece bad investment in the coin not even coinbase can do difrent