Bitcoin Forum

So im out of the mining game.

Getting asics importet from china is too expensive -.-
Electricity is too expensive in my country 0.14$/kwh -.-
and my block erupters isnt making me anything.

this game have only been a waste of money so far.


GL on your mining guys :) dont make the same mistakes as i did.

Good luck in your future endeavors!

I think you're one of the many miners that quit. That's why the ASIC devices are getting cheaper and cheaper. This has happend for GPU's too, you can buy some used GPU's for great prices nowadays.

However, it might still be profitable in the long run to mine now. You might not make profit now, but what if the Bitcoin is worth, for example, $5000 next year? It might have been profitable then to keep on mining now.

If you're assuming that BTC would go up against fiat in he future wouldn't it behoove you to do everything to earn as much BTC as possible.  If mining is a loosing proposition compared to buying the coin, why mine in the first place.  People need to do basic math before making mistakes like this.

My Antminer S1, soon to be S3 has squeaked out a profit, but mining is tough.  GPUs aren't making nearly as much as they used to.

Electricity is my country is $0.19/kwh.

I still am going to get some miners from China. Even factoring in difficulty rise as more and more noobs jump into the fray, as well as rising electricity cost and rising everything, the rise in the price of bitcoin should compensate decently enough for at least my R.O.I and some profit. After that, I have a hobby of dismantling obsolete items so I can also have some fun :p

Why would you mine with such expensive power rates?  You should take the total amount of money you would have spent on 6 months of the miner's electricity and added that to the miner's cost and used that fiat to buy BTC - you would have ended up with more BTC so if BTC prices rises you'll make even more.

I was doing quite well when I started, but now the exchanges are my only way to keep my head above water. My graphics card rarely sees any use now, but in a pinch if I think a coin will make it, I am more than willing to run the bill up.

Mining is becoming harder for me too. Even with the efficient 750 Ti's they're barely covering power costs now. :(

Quit GPU mining two months ago. People who bought ASIC are probably worse off than GPU miners,

Mining game sucks, only manufacturer wins... No choice but to buy BTC since its cheap now... $540..

Black Arrow has successfully squeezed me out of the mining game by not delivering my hardware and robbing me of my ASIC capital.

BFL, HashFast, AMT and many others have also successfully driven out thousands of miners using the same strategy.

My GPUs currently mine 30¢/day (after power) worth of ConspiracyCoin so I guess I'm not completely out of the game yet. I'm sure they're working on an X11 ASIC to screw me on this too...that's right boys spend a few million to fuck me out of 30¢, assholes.

I think one of the main reason that you could not succeed is high electricity bill. In my country it is relatively cheap. It is only $0.08/kwh. So what do you think, do i have any chance of making profit from mining?

But then, then the better desicion is to buy bitcoins and holding them. Because you have to pay the electricity now or periodicly with fiat or btc, so you better of buying periodicly btc instead of paying for the electricity. so you buy btc with the money you want to spend for the miner. you have a fix amount and then, the amount you would spend for electricity you just buy new bitcoins. at the end you will get far more. 

I am paying here at least $0,20. So $0,15 is cheap for me.

You still have loads of mining experience to sell to people with more favorable environments {Cheaper electricity and deep pockets}

That is something, nobody can take away from you.

It's bad to hear things like this, because every miner, are the life blood of the crypto currencies of this world.

Rent out your skills and buy into other peoples data centres. {And make up for some of your possible losses} Or do write-ups of your experience, for others to learn from.

There are still some Satoshi's for you to make out there.  ;D

I quit GPU mining at beginninng of summer.  Just did not make sense with a significant amount of GPU's making so little.  I sold off and bought more asics with it.

BTC Asics turned out to be the safe and best bet.  Scrypt dropped quick on profit I will be mining my scrypt longer then i thought to ROI.  But overall it was a very good change.  With decent priced electricity you can still ROI.  I do suggest going straight BTC asics atm though.

20% import tax on equipment and $0.27 per KwH here in the UK, and i'm still mining so no idea why your giving up so early!

I feel you bro - had to shut down and relocate our operation to a cheaper country.
The big corporations are making it difficult to keep this thing in the decentralized hands of the masses.

How are we going to compete with these 11 MegaWatt facilities CoinTerra and MegaBigPower are rolling out?
It is far far far cheaper to buy the BTC at this current value than to mine anything - unless you are doing it for philanthropic reasons. Probably best you get out before you blink and see the difficulty at 30Billion

Here the import tax is 25%.

he doesn't give up to find bitcoin  ;D,
he just realized what he did (mining) was useless. not get anything even spend a lot of money,
but everyone have different way to find bitcoin

Honestly, I think home miners should only mine as a hedge against bitcoin price stagnation, which could theoretically lead to difficulty stagnation.  If you are long on bitcoin, have a sort of 15% mining operation.

Lets say you buy 10 BTC.  Maybe it would behoove you to buy 2 Antminer S3's.  If the difficulty skyrockets beyond profitability too quickly, then it would be probably safe to assume that the bitcoin price would have reflected upward momentum to account for the increased difficulty.

Again this is in a perfect world and we all know miners aren't rational.  But in the event of a +20% btc price, you would see a lot of old miners turn back on, and other companies roll out batches to gain hashpower.  At this point I can see maybe the difficulty doubling at the current BTC price.... anything beyond that and I'd start to worry.

The home user obviously can't mine if difficulty goes up but the fiat price doesn't - they can't get BTC ROI currently and then they may not even get fiat ROI.

The mining manufacturers, on the other hand, who can sell the miners for 5x their cost - they can still make miners for themselves and mine until the difficulty is 5x higher.  So we know who is adding the the network...all those private farms we subsidized  :o

^^^^ This - we were literally just discussing that here... CoinTerra rolling out 11 MegaWatt farms after we purchase a huge amount of hardware from them left a pretty bad taste in our mouth.  Just saying... thanks for selling it to us at retail (when we inspected the insides of the machines) which were pretty rigorously protected (even as far as seals) showed some of the patch work that went into the machines.

So essentially as she correctly wrote... we literally purchased 2nd hand hardware at full retail while they mine with better equipment before they sell it on to us... >:|

Killed our industrial sized mining operation - rather than roll over and die we chose to move to a more feasible location and try to recoup whatever investments we can.

The same Cointerra that promised 2TH/s in January and ended up delivering 1.6 unstable TH/s in March?  The same Cointerra that said they didn't have enough money to refund customers was able to buy a 11 Megawatt farm?  I'm shocked.  How could this be!?!


That was sarcasm for anybody who couldn't tell.  These mining companies (for the most part) are out to make money for themselves and if they have to sell you hardware at high prices and mine on your hardware for a month or 2 they will do that.  What you gonna do, call the Kansas State AG?  :D (That was a reference to the reports that Sonny paid off the AG to stop BFL from being investigated since they're able to scam away for 2 years unhindered).

THose block erupters were never meant to ROI.. Sadly the price compared to what they mined was to damn high.
Sorry to hear of your loss. :/

Yeah... four of our 1.6s died and we were left with no recourse - the whole experience was very unsavory but we kept fighting.. not to mention the RIDICULOUS amount of power those bad boys pull... 600AMPS is nothing to these machines on a medium sized scale.

At the very least we were happy to be a part of the eco system and just hope to recoup our investment on other smart SHA256 coins (And of course hoping the BTC goes back up and moves to its rightful place... on the moon. (lol)

Wonder what the Devs will do when they realize between Megabigpower and Cointerra that they already more than likely have 35-50% of the hashing power of the entire network - Don't get me wrong - I love that bitcoin confirmations are SUPER fast and it protects the eco system with hash speeds that make any other network pale in comparison... I just don't think it was right to piggy back on smaller/medium sized players (Even the recreational home miners) to boost your own mining facilities which compete directly with the consumers you sold hard ware to..

Nope...  2 thumbs down

If any of you want to feel better...
As of my latest electricity bill, I'm paying $0.43/KW/H

Yes, 43 CENTS per KW/H. Didn't realize this until I took a much closer look at my bill. I pay both a generation fee AND a transmission fee...

I have at-most a couple more months until I'm out and probably won't buy back in.

Holy fuckin hell... That's some insane power prices... I am upset with my summer rates of .15...

I just quit this week after realizing that the power was completely taking over my profits. I'm currently at about 12MH X11 and that doesn't pull enough profit to justify the heat, noise, and inconvenience :P

i suggest  you something like this :
1. learn mining strategy
2. prepare some money for investment
3. use that money investment for mining by rent some ghs on the trusted website.

that's my suggestion for handle your electric bill trouble at your home.

may be that able to help

1) There is no real mining strategy other than mining the most profitable coin at that moment in time
-
3) Renting GH/s doesn't save you money really since most people have the total operating costs priced into their rental price.

The only thing rental would help is for somebody trying to mine some pump and dump coin of the day. Of course there's money to be made, but it's mostly just stealing money from new users.  I don't see it as productive.

While GPU mining for example new coins, there is indeed a way to get some profit. You've to be very Lucky to do this these days, but I succeed atleast once.  Mined a quite inactive coin for a couple of hours and they become worth some nice bucks later on.

However, with so many new coins these days, and many coins fail, it's hard to be Lucky doing this. Most Scrypt coins and their value are likely to be influenced by the Scrypt ASICs these days.

Yeah if you jump onto a new coin within the first couple of hours you could make some decent profits.  I happened to be on right when Dashcoin launched and could have jumped on it and didn't feel like reconfiguring all my rigs.  I went out on a date and have been seeing the same guy since then - worth so much more to me than even the $250 I could have mined for a day.

She is right - my advice is - unless you enjoy mining as a hobby or wish to add to the decentralized eco system.

Don't mine - just buy your crypto and have 0 over heads - do the math for yourself.

If 20 Thz gives you 0.5-6 BTC per day (Work out the cost of your Avalon or CoinTerra or Antminer to get to 20Thz) minus your elec power/rent/staff
Now work out how much BTC you could have bought.

You can scale the above example at the rounded 20Thz either way... Up or down...   (we hash at rates higher than this so it is not a guess)

Where do you live?

Shipping from China costs around $120 per miner, I think. It still might be profitable. However, good luck! :)

Always saddens me to see a miner leave the game :'(

Hoever....  WTF are you still doing on block erupters??  :o  Mind officially fucking blown, splattered all over the wall!!

Why didn't you re-invest a portion pf what you made?

Or better yet, why didn't you sell off your Erupters when the price tanked to buy cheaper, more efficient hardware?

In the end, you only stopped by your own demise or failure to stay on top of the game.

I sold my nukes to buy S1's when they came below the $1,000 mark, during the Gox crash era.

Smartest move I ever did but I seen it coming...  read the Bitcoin news on Google...


That is what the spirit of Bitcoin mining should be, for what it is: a no-video video-game.

You'll need lots of capital investment to get to a reasonable amount of hashing power now to be considered an investment.

I love mining, gold mine also, I never sell coin/gold and pay power related buys with fiat I can spare.

I rarely sell the mined asset other than buying mining supplies (hardware), I pay power related ecpenses out of pocket with cash I don't really need.


Best statement in this thread IMO.  Although Bitcoin mining is virtual, you still need a mining plan and as mine boss, your job is to ensure a stable growth.

Anyone who owns a Gold claim understands a mining plan; and it needs to change regularly too in Bitcoin mining, let me tell you that.

---

Final Words:

That said, if you never re-invest then of course you won't make it as a Bitoin Miner.

Better to tighten your belt now so you can loosen it later; mine's finally pretty loose now.

Don't need to re-invest it all but at least a serious miner should be adding 1TH/s per month by now to keep up with difficulty nerfs.

If you can't do that, you probably won't have a profitable operation.

You have to be at the right place at the right time all the time on every thing, it's a game.

Note: BITCOIN MINING IS A PHYSICAL ONLY VIDEOLESS GAME - If you can't accept that, mining might not be for you.

Bitcoin has all the same qualities as video games such as difficulty (how tough your NPC opponents are), luck (if you get a one shot kill or take 5 shots) and a reward (block) when you win a level (Block height). :)

Understand it and you'll be one of the top players on the leaderboard grow up on it instead of going down it ;)

Miners come and go, only the resilient and smart ones will remain and make the most.

Right now coins are rather cheap, it's not even worth investing if you have to pay out of pocket, I do but I make about 3 times my power investment so I'll gladly pay with the fiat I have because I got 2-3 bitcoin for about $200 worth of power.

Best and fastest way to make the most coin is by day trading on exchanges starting with at least 1 full coin; but you need to understand that aspect too.

As someone said, sooner tha nwe think, good and experienced Bitcoin Miners will be in demand in data centers.

Even good traders will be in demand by banks or other financial institutions.

It's not an easy game but it's a fun game none the less :)

Damn, the electricity cost is too high in your country. Mining is not profitable in altcoin community either. I'm selling some of my equipment.

We recently had to relocate our operation to a more cost effective environment

electricity is the number 1 enemy... i also quit in mining after i realize that.. but it's already late because i already bought total of 12 7970 GPU.. and some PSU and materials.. :( sad to say i sell all my rig for 40% drop price..

Yeah honestly people don't know any better and the allure of mining is strong to resist - especially in gamers - it resonates with people so they just jump in without even looking.

We have a thread that touches on mining here:
http://thebitcoinmovement.com/project/3702/

Also launched a charitable project here:
http://thebitcoinmovement.com/give-b-bit/

If you bought in january, you still made some decent profit, right.
I would be so happy if i could sell my rigs for only 40% drop in price.

But im still keeping rigs for few months, hoping that there will be some change in x11/x13/x15 coins profitability.

Sadly I made more in my real estate investments than I did mining this year.  I don't mind not being able to mine for a profit - my only worry is that these large farms that are owned by the ASIC companies and promoting centralization of the network.  3 farms could easily join together for a 51% attack since home miners are being marginalized now.

I recently read a post that suggested it was easier for a small miner to pay their electric cost of the large miner farms and the farms would likely need to shut down operations at some point.  I'm guessing at this point we will just have to wait and what the future holds but I'm putting my money on the large farms taking a step back at this point.

I can tell you this much - for those of us who have to pay large electric bills - we need to convert this commodity to fiat to do so and the coin dropping to 490 really swallows up margins when you are producing coins at this rate as opposed to say the $600 which it was holding at for a while.

One of the reasons I mine is decentralization as well but I admit it has become very difficult and overwhelming at times given what is currently going on in this space.

Well that's kind of true, but only in a narrow view.  If a miner spend $10 in electricity mining on a small ASIC and earns $5 he/she can eat the loss because hey it's just $5.  If a farm were to spend $10 million and mine back only $5 million - heads will roll.

The thing is the farm will never have to spend $10 million.  It is probably built in the right place with cheap power and free or cheap cooling.  So it should only cost $2-$4 million to mine the $5 million.  The farms will almost always make a profit if done correctly.

Even large farm now is suffering big losses due to the crash in Alt price and bitcoin, Only if their electricity is less then 0.03cent they are making a loss too.. This is the mining game :(

Mining is a hobby at the begin and ASIC turn it become money costing hobby.

Stay in game(hobby), buy a new generation mining gears(every half years) from manufacturer and pay operating cost (electricity).

Even if the electricity is free, the miners itself might not break even before network difficulty making it obsolete.

Really? do you think the difficulty would slow down at one point?

After this past weekend decided it's time to get out of mining myself sadly...thanks a lot electric company for jacking my rates up!

If anyone cares (and is local to the SF bay area), posting it all for sale:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745007.msg8421515

I think is still to early to give up as long as your mining game can still pay for the bills. Plus bitcoin value will increase for time to time. My main suggestion is to stick it until the value of mining can't really cover up the electricity cost, then only you consider quitting by selling off your hardware out and sell your bitcoin when the value is right for you.

To calculate how much of electricity you use the formula is
340W X 24 Hours X 30 Days / 1000 = 244.8 KWH

244.8 KWH X (Depends where you live) $0.14 = $34.272 Per Month on Electricity

Difficulty will not decrease period but the increase is not fast for now, what i mean is that the difficulty is predictable.

13 cents kwh why so high? taxes. 4 cent tax, here.

I too am fucked. I paid 90 bucks 6 gridseeds that returned nothing. Now they're $29 & fury is $35
A gawminer fury 100 bucks that hasn't returned anything.

I was played hard.

Now they're just sitting burning electric making 71 cents a day and counting lower day by day.

Bitcoin is to me is like kryptonite to superman.

I've lost out a lot.


Anyone wants to buy my stuff pm me.

Those little miners were honestly never meant to ROI (IMO) They are simply to see what mining is like, I bought the gridseeds right when they first came out for 2400 for 10, and I think after I sold them for 600 6 months later, that they came close to breaking even with the money from the sale included...

You just have to get the right equipment to make money... and right now, there really isn't much that's profitable.

I started off with 3 280x's that were making me 75 dollars a day for a while in the good ol days, then I ramped my GPU mining up to 15 GPUs that were making about the same as the original 3 by the time I got them all...

Then a few months later I sold most of them in order to buy antminer S3's , which are machines that will actually make something.

At this point it's hard to tell where I am with ROI, but I know for sure that my original miner paid itself off, as well as almost all of the video cards I sold till this point. I am keeping 1 5 280x miner and one 3 270 miner in case there are things that are worth video card mining in the future, but otherwise I am moving solely to ASICs, and only to ones with good power ratio.

Anything else is simply for fun, any of the USB devices are just for fun, and at this point anything less than a modded S1 is just for fun. Sorry you lost out, but honestly you didn't lose much, and you bought miners that were only meant for a hobby, not for actually making money.

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anyone want to buy your stuff pm you... lol... yeah... I'm gonna pass  :D

The cost to price each bitcoin is around 597. And the cost to buy one coin directly is less than 500 dollars.

The choice is rather clear if you should mine or buy.

The trust system lol. Nothing in my trust system states of me stealing or scamming.

I will show you the trust system now.

Edit:

Shit man.... Don't ever trust this guy! He has a bad trust. And is a new account.

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I believe if you can get free electricity and sell the miner after you get even with ROI the is possible you can sell it and get half profit from what you paid on the miner, still is risky but if you open an online shop it might just work.  Also selling on ebay will kill profits if you try to sell it there.

i did pay $150 for my 10 erupters in november 2013
and $170 for my BF1 also i november 2013
and then i got my USB hub in december because i got the wrong one first time.

have you noticed that escrow.ms said that he is trusted? the trust system is really fucked up so bad,there are some serious abuse, Personal dissensions should stay away from the trust system, i noticed that some guy give trust only because they hate another guy, really stupid

I have been trying to tell people that since the USB block erupters came out.   Sad to say you figured it out now.  At least you got a couple BTC before this big difficulty rise?

A couple of BTC from block eruptors?  I doubt any eruptor was able to mine more than a quarter of a BTC at the most.

That's exactly my question, I'm new to bitcoins but I saw the video on MBP datacenter in Washington.  Are they still making $USD8million a month profit?  Is there a formula that shows how and when (at what investment level) that a profit can start to be made?  Feel free to answer here or PM me, I'm looking to learn about this.  So far it seems to me that only the manufacturers win because they mine for 6-12 months on their new equipment while "testing" it in pools of at least 100 servers, then when those servers get too slow for the formula they finally ship them to end customers.  Do I have it right so far in my conclusions?  So to make any profit at this you have to be the manufacturer of your own ASIC cards and get each server for about $500-$900 total cost.

I think you tried for BTC mining. You should try for altcoin mining and your electricity bill is quite high.

It's quite unlikely that the Washington mining facility is making $8 Million per month today. Unless they have continued to upgrade/replace their hardware, at some serious cost, they will see a declining number of Bitcoins each and every month. The largest facilities are as exposed to difficulty increases, and the volatility of the Bitcoin price as even a puny 100 GH/s miner like myself.

Just think of yourself as the "CEO" of such a mining facility walking around and realizing that every 12-14 days, difficulty will adjust, and you will make fewer Bitcoins next month than you did this month. And you you still have to sell some of your Bitcoins to pay for the electric bill (in US $$$, not Bitcoins) at the end of the month. You just hope that Bitcoins didn't also go down by 5% in value during the month. And sometime, you will likely have to report back to your investors that you didn't make $8 million this month.

While the numbers are jaw dropping, the finances are every bit as precarious as they come.

You don't directly invest on what you can't afford,the starter miners a year earlier from now would have make a decent profit rather than the ones have now,eyeing on the rise of difficulty factors  :-X

I'm paying .26 USD per KWh and 23% import tax here in Ireland.
Count your blessings  ;) ;D
Goodluck with your future projects. :)
-J

altcoin scene seems dead now, maybe worse than bitcoin, if you look for mining i would just avoid the entire thing

You can take each month's profit and re-invest into new (and faster) servers.  $USD3million buys 1000 5TH machines.  So each month you can replace nearly your whole datacenter with faster servers.  If you replaced every 4 months you are still making 4x profit over replacement costs.  I just wonder what the facts are, not speculation, on what they invest and what they make.  Even more I wonder what the lowest entry point is to make a worthwhile income.  Companies like Mega Big Power and Cointerra and others who have big datacenters wouldn't do it if it wasn't making them money.  So what are they doing right and what is their formula?

The trick is that they can sell to themselves without cheating themselves.  If Cointerra sold a 2TH unit last year for $5000 and it cost them $1500 to develop the unit, then they can buy more units for themselves.  They don't need to pay for any additional research, they don't need to pay for shipping, they're not penalized with a 2 week downtime with shipping.  So if the miner costs 1/3 of their total end user selling price then they essentially have only 1/3rd the investment cost that an end user would have.  Not to mention the benefit of mining earlier.

Now if they continue to sell the units for $5k and it costs them $1.5k, they can buy 3 units for every 1 unit they sell you.

This is why she is a hero member  :D

 I am out of the mining game too ..

how and way  mining .

is it a good investissement ..?
thanks

Easy response in one click
http://thebitcoinmovement.com/project/3702/ (http://thebitcoinmovement.com/project/3702/)

My electricity is 0.32$/kWh Australian $. Which sucks. But I don't mine anyway.

0.32$ is really expensive, you pretty much hit break-even pretty soon... good to hear that you stop mining already :)

As the current BTC/LTC prices are too low, it's clearly that we should buy coins directly rather than mining. I worry about how long would such low prices sustain.

Agree that buy coins directly is a much better decision. Unless it is a new alt-coin then you need some hash.

Mining is a big risk, but you can go legit millonaire in the future if it works out well..

Buying BTC directly seems to be a better way to be millionaire.

I think I found a mining solution that is pain free at www.wazue.com. I had a good ROI after 1 week of mining.

For anyone that reads this... Do not  put money in contracts or cloud based mining.  It will not be profitable and unless you have full control over what pool you join you will not know your true payouts.

Scam, please don't invest into it.

I always trust external links from a newbie, how could they lead me to a bad place!?!

Seriously don't click random unknown links unless you trust the user.

As noted above it is observed to be a scam.

+2 for nuking that website and scam cloud mining

Before making cloud mining purchasing decision please refer to https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty (https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty) and see how much you will be able to make with the hash power and time you are given.

Nice, I always use bitcoinwisdom calculator too to determine how good asic or cloud mining are. But usually its negative ROI..

Or just listen to people who mine... and don't do it... lol

...and that is IF your payouts/hash rate is true... I have heard of many people getting burnt on cloud based mining.

As of now, none of the cloud mining is profitable.

In this year 600 Mill. will be invested in Mining, what will correspend with the Hashrate. Until March 15 it should be 5x higher as now. The 1.000.000.000.000.000.000 (10^18) Hashes Wall.

People rarely listen until they get burn at least a few times.

There are all kind of simulators from more than one source telling them very clearly there is no profit in mining. Yet a lot of people still doing it.

That's a shame to hear :( I'm just now starting to try my hand at it. Luckily electricity is quite cheap around here.

Hearing this alot recently, Best advice I can give (being in this game for a long time now) Is don't back out completely, Try and acquire a small bit of coin and just sit on it!

Too many people say "it ain't worth mining now" and don't look into the future. Heres a bit of info for you, When bitcoin started, It was not worth it then either!!! We mined for the idea of moving power away from the government, People who kept coins then are rich now, History does repeated itself! People who save now, Will be rich in the future, heed these words, I just cant say when.

Best!

Won't just buy the coin from miners a lot more cheaper then even in the old days?

D not listen to this guy.  SCAMMER.  Cloud mining is a bunch of BS with no ROI.

Take a look at that website, looks SUPER legit. Poor formatting, pixelated images...yeah, looks trustworthy.

I cant believe people would fall for such a scam website.

That post is so scary. Like, you know behind that lines is sitting a moron, who want to roob your money.

lol they don't even want to rob your money... they want to roob that shit...  :D

Mining these days isn't profitable,unless you have started more than a year earlier from now you are not gonna make any real profit out of it.

Making $0.00 a day with my Black Arrow 2Th/s miner that was never delivered at the end of February and still hasn't been delivered.

Oh, I though they gave compensation?

No miner, no refund and no compensation.

That sucks. Someone need to take down those scamming company.

In other words you got scammed.  I'm sorry for your loss.  I was considering BA for a little bit as people mentioned they initially had a good track record.  Guess they couldn't handle their hot potato when large sums of money came into play.

As a BA customer that has actually received their order, I can tell you that the products are technically very good...though you probably wont get ROI with the current market.
However, they seem intent in sharing a cesspit with BFL, sharing similar qualities in customer relations...maybe they went to the same school ;(

BFL walks the fine line between scam and fraud. They won't outright not ship you a miner since you could always win that in court, they will just mine on it until it's useless and then ship it to you so they don't have to offer a refund because they never "promised" a delivery by a certain date.

Gonna do a couple rounds on the bag... got me worked up now.

Yeah for many people it's only a waste of time and money,Nowadays there is not much profit in the mining anymore unless done in large scale

Another trick is to have 2 different companies set up where manufacturer sells the units to the mining company at the same price as they would to any other customer. The mining company can write off the cost of the miners against the returns. A loss will not matter because it is all on paper and the BTC does not change. This is a scam that is legal in the my neck of the woods.

Good ol' selling from the right hand to the left hand?

More than two arms. There is a multibillion dollar company where I live that is an Octopus on steroids. They own an auto dealership to sell themselves fleet vehicles. They own a refinery to sell gas to fuel their operations. They own a property management company to look after their real estate transactions. They own a rail line to deliver their products to market. They own an insurance company to insure their operations and fleet vehicles. The government gives them grants to expand because they say that they will hire more workers. May be true but they put the competition out of business. They own their own private police force for security. They own a house building company to build homes with their products. They own a chain of hardware and building supply stores to sell their products.

It is quite a system. Write offs and profits in a convoluted business world.

http://thebitcoinmovement.com/bitcoin-peoples-bailout-currency-vs-money/

It is so much worse than that bud.. look at #4

Mike Maloney is a smart man. He, amongst others, got me involved in silver and gold.

yeah he really broke it down in a way everyone can understand. great educational tool!

Maybe traditional mining is not longer profitable, but you can do it in a new way. There are ideas like virtual mining, purchasing remote mining rig or buying something like the new Hashlet from GAW miners for example. And you don't have to be rich to to do so...

Virtual mining, as you call it, is indeed quite profitable - for the company selling the hashes :P  Every contract allows them to expand their marketshare  ;)

"Proof of dishonesty and lies from Gawminers.com Hashlet Ponzi Scheme Scam"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=749980.0

As you can see these scammers are specifically targeting small miners "you don't have to be rich". Are we mining or playing the get rich quick you deserve to lose all your money game?

Fucking scumbags.

I just don't understand their business.  I thought hashlet was a nice idea at first.  But going from like 14.99 to 39.95 and call it prime seems insane.  I will personally be sticking with physical miners. 

We will see if hashlets prove me wrong and were a great investment.  I just don't see how they made money at 15 dollars one day then a few days later it went to 40 dollars.  I see their sales slowing.

Just buy the coin directly - it is valued at 480$ USD right now - Calculate what it would cost to earn yourself a BTC (NET) through mining either physical/cloud and quickly understanding that greed has ushered in the era of industrial mining, either we adapt and go with the flow of the ocean... Or we swim into the riptide and drown.

If I was a rich man and could put a decent wager behind a bet I have, I probably would rake in a nice profit..

I've started to believe the whole BitCoin world was taken over by Central Bankers long ago when they thought it might disrupt their banking cartel.

I seriously doubt that there's that much mining hardware coming online every 12 days that the difficulty jumps up anywhere from 7% to 20%.

That's bullshit!!

How's that happening?? NSA super computers being used to pump up the mining threshold??

I'm mining at 1.5THS and barely making $13 a day... 8 months ago I would have been making over $100 at that hashing power.. Talk about diminishing returns..

If I wanted to make $100 a day today, I'd have to be over 10THS, which I'd have to throw in another $20K in mining contracts. And that would only get up to $100 a day
for about 2 weeks before the fucking difficulty jumped up again..

And since BitCoin is tied to fiat currency, I'm guessing the reason it's down to $480 is because the fucking US dollar has somehow gained in value?!?!? Not in my opinion.. Try going to the grocery store and getting out of the store with 1/5th filled basket without blowing $100.

What happened to the idea that the more BitCoin was accepted by retailers that it would gain in value?? Not from what I'm seeing.. It should be up over $2000 a BTC..

And those of us who have invested tens of thousands in mining would actually be making some good money in return...

I have to agree with you on the retailers part....  So much speculation was going around on the troll box. 

As for difficulty - people are saying it is these mega data centers that are lighting gear up.   I saw that with litecoin when the ASIC manufacturers were rolling their stuff into testing but nothing of this speed and size.  It has to plateau at some point.  Don't you think?

Though this is just an opinion, I think maybe we could shed a little light on some of your questions:

1) Honestly have no clue if central bankers are some how trying to undermine BTC but given the attacks and continuous FUD there is a very real possibility you are correct as this competes directly with the people who basically own the planet.

2) Mining difficulty going up is directly due to Big companies who sell us the hardware while they also roll out 11+Megawatt facilities which they use to mine on their next gen equipment (Until they sell it to us once they are done squeezing it) then they use our money to fund R&D and keep it moving off our tears, not very classy AT ALL.

3)I am also an industrial miner who has sunk a good chunk of money into the game while it was at around 8 Billion difficulty (Also saw ridiculously lower returns) which force you to re-invest most of the profit just to stay relevant.

4) The BTC value is due to whales dumping and re-buying to make a profit and acquire more BTC / merchants immediately changing their BTC to fiat via coin base etc / bots and people who soak up all the FUD selling at losses and moving to alt coins in hopes of a brighter tomorrow.

Once the fiscal deficit of the fractional reserve banking system crashes due to hyper inflation we will see some transfer of wealth come to BTC and then my friend you will feel the benefits of being a part of the early wave of "Speculators"

For now don't get caught up in the FUD pricing spikes and focus on how amazing it is that we are actually able to circumvent the banking domination by trading in a peer to peer decentralized world.

In my book that's a fucking +1 win  ;D :D

Mining is no longer a game where small time miners can afford.

Most PoW coins may slowly go away and be replaced by PoS coins.

I would not say small time can not mine.  I mean graphics cards were not  cheap when they were the hot item to mine with.  But with them you did have a "gamer" audience to sell cards to aswell at end.

yeah, buying BTC is better, but i think if electricity is cheap, people can still make money from mining
It may take some time, though
It will take time to make money, isn't it?

Agree!

First and foremore - WOW.  I agree.  Where is the PUMP PUMP.  SHIT.  retailers are all bitpay coinbase..  dragging it all down including modern miners like myself...  SICK

How cheap of electricity is consider cheap? Most people consider $0.08/KWH cheap but look what happen. Its still unprofitable.

Is that mining BTC directly or something like multipool and trading?

You make a good profit

everything before success will has a process. Keep it and never give up.

Better to just sell the mining gear then to never give up...

The strategy of my ASIC manufacturer so far has been:

1. Take customers money.
2. Buy Bitfury chips.
3. Mine Bitfury until power cost too much.
4. Outsource the creation of an ASIC the Minion.
5. Sell used Bitfury for a discount as in-hand product.
6. Mine Minion until power cost too much.
7. Ask customers for more money by telling them to buy proprietary PSUs for the extra miners they promise as compensation for not delivering fuck all.
8. Ship a few of the units to customers and have them go off as incendiary bombs then claim they need to delay their obsolete and worthless miner a bit longer because it explodes and bursts into flames. Good excuse really, I mean after 6 months of "next week" one really needs something extreme like this as an excuse to rob me of my money and still not deliver fuck all.
9. Ask customers for several million dollars to fund the development of a 28nm Scrypt and a 14nm Bitcoin ASICs.

lol - this is so true it hurts.. you missed out the part when they expand to work with data center companies.. welcome to the Arctic circle son

Look all around to find a Place closer to you to buy miners? Or Sell ur old miners for bitcoin and Wait until you can get me :)

Lol you have just answered your question, those who raked in larg profits from mining ealy in the game i.e the BTC millionares , the KNC,s BITMAINs basically the whales instead of investing in the BTC ecosystem I.e creating stores and retail opportuninites centered around bitcoins choose to just dump more and more fiat into hardware for mining.

then they turn around and dump those BTC they mine on the fiat market by the 100s a day why the hell would BTC rise ?   Eventually if things don't change BTC could go to a point where no one can afford to mine anymore and either these whales will do the right thing and invest in the eco system or BTC will die.

It could be that there are whales in the background working on some services and things like I have discussed in the background and release them in the next few months similar to what GAW did with hashlet.

You should not be losing your patient so soon. I would better suggest you to go with some quality and well established miner, It all depends on which mining pool and which currency are you are trying to use. You may go and buy some hash power as well and then can mine some good amount with a better speed. Buck up!

in my opinion mining btc can be a bit difficult you need to make the investment in a asic see the price calculate the degradation price for selling in 6 months to 1 year be aware of diff rising calculate the watts costs and see the benefics in for instances 1TH of a ant miner tht costes like 1500 dollars and in one year sold buy 600 you need to make a revenue more than 1100 dollars in btc in 6 months to 1 year and that is like 3.5 BTC divided by 350 days you need 0.01 BTC per day in a 1TH that is precisely what may happends soo people do some calcs and if you buy a  miner for instances gaw miner do take a good look at the risk and ROI.

Wow look at this post at the top of the page $480 4 months ago now $240 nearly down 50%. It was hardly worth mining then it definitely isn't now.

At least you had some fun, an experience and clean BTC ;) You will get some BTC when you sell your miners.

Well it depends on if you are able to make the bitcoin that you spend on your miners back, after accounting for electric costs. The price drop of bitcoin has certainly made mining less desirable and as a result less people are now mining (see the drop in hashrate)

I am too but also still interested in btc.  Since I stopped mining I still had some btc and have played around with gambling which was mostly a bad idea lol.

but it's still fun.  There are still other ways to get btc like selling stuff or services.  

I don't mine as much as I used to now. I sometimes switch miners off for days. If I can get my self some more efficient miners and a good solar setup, I might get back into it with good speed.

$160USD to have a miner shipped down to Australia is a turn off.

well mining hobby died long time ago, now is definitely buried

yes closed case GPU CPU pen only asic buy miners for scrypt or sha 256 are resisting but thats more not like a hobby soo its becoming porfessional to mine and to invest and to give a good drilll out of the ROIs

Not sure if i will ever make ROI with the cloud mining i purchased, but at least i dont have a power bill on steroids anymore.

Home mining was a fun experience, and i never regret positive journeys.

my favorite pool's expression of condolences

Cloud mining has the advantages of not having to deal with the equipement, software, bills ect. but it is not as fun as you don't have much to do, just pay for the ghs, collect your earnings and hope the cloud mining business doesn't close ;D.

Cloud mining is defendly a plus for those who still want to receive  daily payouts to get ROI now in days seems like a long journey, other then that just buy btc and trade a little im sure they would earn more btc then just getting a rig on a data center.

Black Arrow scammed me out of $5k and never shipped my miner so I'm out before I even started (not counting my GPUs and erupters).

I'm not also impressed by referring to mining as a "game"; this is a serious amount of money for me to get screwed out of. Theft over $5k is an indictable offense last time I checked.

If your equipement is paid for and you don't pay for electricity it is worth mining.

I'm just going to say that it might not be profitable now, but with the value that you made, in a few years time,it could be worth a fortune.

+1 ;) I mine hard.

Exactly, keep goin' hard ;)

It is positive because it means Coinbase is growing and getting stronger :


Today we are pleased to announce that Coinbase has raised $75 million in Series C financing, the largest funding round to date for a Bitcoin company. This brings our total capital raised to $106 million.

I understand where you are coming from, I am thinking about doing the same.

You might want to look into Burstcoin mining! Cheaper then mining with gpu or asics.

Burstcoin mining isn't profitable anymore, it is profitable for the first month but whale came and wipe out all the profits.

It is but it takes time to make profit, I think it may have a bright future, we will see.

Is it worth to start mining now?

Nope, not until bitcoin double its current price. But if you have really cheap electricity rate (0.05 cents) and below then you can consider mining.

No it is not unless you are able to afford a very large miner and have cheap electricity and you have enough time where you can break even if it takes as long as 100 days. You can use http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency to find out how much you would actually make.

No. Best off taking what money you would be spending buying mining gear, and purchasing BTC directly (eg: via Coinbase)

Thank you for such nice tip!

if you want to start mining, suggest checking out BURST, it's mining based on Hard drive space. No need for billions of watts of power, and it's fun too!

If you already have the miners I wouldn't stop yet as one day u might hit a great pool and boom paid for all your bad mining days

How do I answer this in as little words as possible....

Only if the following applies to you:
-If you have an adequate fire extinguisher and alarm system.
-If you have free power
-If you gladly pay for all your power out of pocket only to bag coin for future sales
-If you have anything of $0.01 / KW.h and under
-If you have great knowledge of the offline mining industry
-If you have great knowledge of computers and technology
-If you're not lazy
-If you have a good operating credit line
-If you have have substantial upfront investment
-If you have a solid mining plan
-If you have place to host your really stinking hot bunch of computers
-If you have adequate ventilation and/or air-conditioning

This is to name probably to name the most important ones but if you have ALL the above you will do fine  ;D

It seems to start mining altcoins is an unique alternative...

Well, it might still be profitable in the long run to mine now I guess. You might not make profit now, but you could keep and hold those bitcoins you mined for waiting bitcoin price to raise. ;)

yeah, I was thinking about this, but it seems to make more sense to simply buy the bitcoin.

I've had terraminers and antminers and still have a few small ones chugging away, but only for the hell of it.  the terraminers are unplugged as they just eat too much.

as others have said, if you have free power then yes, otherwise it doesn't seem profitable for the average guy to get into mining and make even their investment back.

You can make a profit mining if you get cheap enough hardware and cheap enough maintenance costs with low enough difficulty increase.

I'm out of 03/2014. Mining isnt profitable.  :-\

just running the last of the knc stuff into doorstop status...there is this place below thou...may get one as a 'toy' someday ..but nothing above 2k max!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=985400.0

we will see how legit they are supposedly a gridseed and wiibox collaboration with IPO $$$

but no more pre-orders!!! (for me that is no idea if above is gonna try that on folks again)

anyway the only 'talk' of any new equipment of any kind that is not data hall private miners that I know of right now is the above link

but it is "iffy" at best.....or so it seems so far...will let others break trail on all this......but 'toy' for fun status is the only way to go with miners now imho
if at all

Hi guys.

Here in Brazil, mining is the most unprofitable thing to do.

This years, electricity bills has rising a lot -- brazilian government is always fucking up everything...

Our currency, the Real, cost U$0.3, and the KWh is about U$0.13.

So, just before june 2014 it was a little profitable (because of mining diff and because of some chinese seller who were selling Antminer S1 for a very cheap price... but it was a very tiny moment in "btc history".

Today, even if you got the best hardware, green energy, hw plugged on 220V, I mean, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make money.... who's mining here it's totally for fun or for a long, long investment and a huge belief that Btc price will skyrocket like Nov/2013.

The basic salary is around U$245,00. So how could somebody work with mining with such unpleasant environment? I mean, you will spend U$453,00 to buy a S5... and will spend around U$90 monthly with maintenance... the return will be nothing but arrears. Even clouding on hashnet.com, the maintenance will be much less, but the hardware cost will make the return very, very little.

So, here's not a cool place to mine. It's a non-winning game...

pS.: My sister lives in CA, USA, it looks like it is a cool place for mining. She's mining great with her power purchase and low electricity cost.

Hope it help some who's planning to do this work/game here.

Yeah, mining isn't very profitable right now and it's probably a good decision to stop. Most cloud mining sites are ponzi schemes.

But I wonder what will happen if all the miners ditch bitcoin mining? Who will process our transactions?

The very big chinese Mining Farms - the big Player of this World. Very simple ;) The little private Miner with a lot of Terrahash will never reach the ROI and will stop the miningprocess.

You're suggesting we join a pool? I don't think that's still profitable either.

We should all immigrate to a place that has cheap electricity  ;D

I think you can ROI as a small player, just do your calculations but you won't make that much money and it will be difficult but it is difficult and risky to run a large farm as well, for different reasons.

But one thing it's true... there's only few countries wih a "combination of things" that contribute to BTC mining.

There's a lot things to embarass everything, like regional monetary problem, government issues, state intervention, taxes, nonpopularity (and I think it's bad), and lotta things that don't mean shit to talk here.

In my opinion, mining is becoming the inverse of what a majority of us believed in.

I mean, this is not BAD, you know, this is natural...

Im afraid you are right. Centralisation of mining is happening and this is the inverse of what bitcoin is ion my opinion.

I really dont know what we could do to change that.

In my opinion there is nothing we can do. Mining can't be profitable for everyone  forever. It's a natural thing that more and more efficient miners appear in the game. Competition is is something unavoidable in many aspects of life, so it is in mining.

Yeh. You're right.

It's sad but true.   :-\

Especially when bitcoin price is not that high. Im out of not only the mining game, but the whole bitcoin game.

Did you cash out entirely, or hodling your stash ?

There are always PoS coins, why don't you guys try that?

Or, like I suggested a few pages back, mine with your HARD DRIVE with BURST.

Man, I can barely pump out anything from my 780 TIs. I stopped mining because of the electricity costs and it wasn't worth it. I wish I had started diving into the Bitcoin world earlier.

if the price was higher, so it was the diff, therefore it would not have change much, different would have been the case if the price skyrocket in a short time, because the diff won't keep up

It made me smile a bit, love the USA. We pay 0,26 cent per kwh, in euro's!! Only if you host miners with a substantial power consumption the rates go down to 0,12 cent per kwh, still more because it's in Euro's, can you imagine what the price drop has done to people in Europe ;)

If any of you is willing to sell your miners.. Plz contact me.. I want to buy a few of them :-)

The big question are the new miners. S6 and S7 might be deal breakers and these should be around this summer.

Or not.

  ::) It's sad but true

Many people already doing that, and much more'll be. Not only PoS, but all kinds of Proofs-of're the future of cryptos. PoW's getting obsolete step by step

If burst goes up in price a bet, renting a "storage vps" is what I would do.

I already found a good price one that would almost make profit at the current price.

I fully agree with this statement. Home PoW mining s history.

I dissagree... PoW will always have its place, why?  Here's why:

PoW - The most fluid and problem free; the top cryptos use this.
PoS - Only promotes holding... when it comes to using it as a currency, well, no one wants to sell an income earning property.  Those coins also often have wallet and mining issues.
Demurrage - Promotes spending only, coins vanish if not sued after a certain period of time.
PoX - Mainly PoW or PoW but re-branded.

It's also a lot easier and less risky for developers to expand on PoW than the others.

PoW is probably the most intensive and energy costly arrangement but I also see it as the simplest and therefore going to be around the longest.

“At first, most users would run network nodes, but as the network grows beyond a certain point, it would be left more and more to specialists with server farms of specialized hardware.” – Satoshi

well we are getting to the realising that mining on cloud or harware as its bounces dwon im a lot of loss sometimes becuase of time and cost of watts i mean i quitted usb blades pens asic and gpu and cpu and even HDD burst coin is simple the diff growing and btc going down makes you just realize that the news on mining herdawre are not too goood maybe for a investment on sha256 bitcoin just in 1000 dollars miners not much more

Please add some punctuation to make your message easier to read.

- -

Yes, PoS does encourage holding. However, isn't that the same with dollars / euro's etcetera? Sure, the interest you get at a bank is really low at this moment. But look about 5 years ago. It was actually worth it saving money on the bank because you get a nice interest in return. In that situation, you spend the amount of dollars / euro's you have to (on food, clothing, your house etc etc) and the spare money you might have left, was put into a bank account.

my question is, is still profitable to mining bitcoin with low hasrate?

the answer is no, it is worse than the hardest lottery, you can only do it for supporting the network or for fun, surely not for profit

okay if not, what is the best way to mining bitcoin for profit?i have no idea

there is no way right now, but you could try some cloud like bit-x, you can resell your contract, there, at least

or if you don't pay the bill you can buy an antminer s5 and wait 5 month for roi, then you would make profit

Adding on to this, watch the classifieds section on this site. I see people listing S5's and other "current gen" miners fairly often. If you can get one for a good price, that'll lower your ROI time.

it is still possible if you are stupid lucky....i found a knc titan all working well for a very very very low price.....but even at that it will ROI in 4.5 months or so more or less
at current LTC prices with electric included...but 4.5 months is a long time in alt coin anyway.....so that is the only way I know of

and we are talking at LEAST 3/4 off any price you see miners at on Ebay imho at 15c kwh elec to even pull the above ...so to say the current prices of miners now is
completely out of control is still probably an understatement....

so used and dumb luck are the only way it works ....and in that it is 99% dumb luck ..kinda long odds... I am no where near finding anything close
to the above in any manner with any brand of miner...and i've been looking (mostly because I'm a silly primate and already found 1 cookie and figure there
has be more)

but hey it keeps me out of trouble and buying lottery tickets where the odds are probably the same of the above happening again

anyway ....if you want something to shoot for miner wise or something to do that is what i would keep in mind if it can't ROI with elec costs in less then 5 months or
so ...even just from a hobby mode way of looking at it ...it an't worth doing..you may not find anything ..but it should keep you from buying a miner at a really stupid
inflated price that will never ROI

(dare to dream)

Yeah but that all falls on consistent price.

Which most people to fail to notice. IF the price is constant at $200 or whatever, but lately the price has been dropping like crazy so your ROI is going to take way longer.

Unless you are willing to make up the price difference by more months, but thats dumb.

Why not just pivot and get into the legit cloud mining scene with those asic providers.

Yeah, cloudmining has a bad name of its own, but theres ones that been around for awhile one of them being hashnest. The very antminers that you buy from?

Or better options like genesis-mining which allows credit card transaction, and supported with spoondoolies which also most trust as well.

There definately are cloud mining services that are legit indeed. However, that's not only my concern. In my experience, it is really hard to ROI with these services. You have to invest a lot to get a decent hashrate, and with the current value of BTC it is hard to mine an amount of BTC worth of the same value as you invested.

However, I was lucky once with the ZenCloud (Scrypt) cloud mining service. I mined a small part of my investment over there, but I was able to sell the hashrate I bought for way more than it initial had cost me. Too bad I didn't bought way more hashrate in the early stage of that service :).

i think that for me, it's not even worth it at 5 months roi(too long for my taste), at best i could accept a 3 months roi, and would be already far-stretched

also with the bad electricity that i have here it would be impossible to roi right now, this is why i'm searching for alternative, like hosting or cloud, with those service electricity is out of the question

and you can worry only about your income, also less stressful

I've been out for a few weeks now :(.

I switched off the last of my miners after winter was over and the weather warmed up and the heat produced was no longer a viable excuse to off setting the running cost.

In my opinion and with bitcoin at its recent price mining directly hasn't been profitable for home miners in most of the developed world for months. Even with the latest 'efficient' hardware regular electricity prices kill it.

The only way it's still profitable is with the latest hardware and dirt cheap electricity which is only available in a few places on the planet and / or if you have commercial premises and work a deal with the electricity supplier.

Money can occasionally still be made if you've got time on your hands and mine newly released coins then dump them within minutes of them appearing on an exchange to convert to bitcoin. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. However it seems that new coin releases are getting fewer and fewer especially half decent ones worth mining with any potential.

So unless you've got efficient hardware and dirt cheap electricity don't bother mining unless it's a hobby, you're better off just buying bitcoin.
 

Sorry to hear that, man. Unfortunately, lately its not very profitable to mine bitcoins and have good winnings. 

Do you realize you quoted someone from a year ago?  We are talking block erupter days... misquote?

+100 - THIS^^ should be written in every thread on this forum..I can't express is better by myself.

Don't forget the risk of bitcoin price also. A 10-20% drop means you will be mining at a loss.

yeah due to bank error i had to go legal miner route (2013 virtual currency biz IRS rules) in that SEC was involved and it was fixed in 1/2 hour had no choice with
the legit biz stuff done before hand saved my bacon from further issues..so going with the hand i was dealt below it has worked out well due to my equip overload
that just happens to be right on the money so i've paid no taxes on mining as the IRS wants as a result...(dumb lucky also works i drank the knc kool aid)

It has worked out well because 2014 sucked so bad and the price i made on mining did not rate any taxes yet i got the equip depreciation benefits

(i don't recommend this to others just saying if i had to do this starting to mine at end of 2013 and 2014 with major equip at the end of those years did work in my favor
got the equip depreciation in full but did not have the problem with mining a lot before the year is done) and of course this year...not mining as much...etc so golden
likely for 2015 too.

so IN MY CASE I may get a BABY miner used or otherwise just to show revenue for next year or two to show my bona fides to the IRS as a biz (5 yrs at least my cpa says
I'm a farmer and laughs)..again 5 yrs 3 out of 5 years showing SOME modest profit over equip etc..so as not for the IRS to say it was a HOBBY....shudder

so a 400 buck unit to me if i was to run it out as a biz for 5 years is 300 bucks after equip depr as applied to real money towards taxes.....also showing revenue

ie ...hey IRS i made 40 bucks mining this month here is your 25% of what I made 10 bucks....ie I'm showing revenue for my biz (hey the crops suck don't look at me IRS)

but so far looks like I never will pay any real taxes on mining due to 2013 (too much equip) and 2014 and now 2015...it will wash out with a brief profit maybe I will
pay for as extra income but as to that 25% on mining  er not really......only if we get to 1000 usd BTC  here in 2015 in which i will be very very glad to pay the IRS its share

so anyway ...miners may work for some folk in MY situation or BIG miners etc or say you are next to a hydro dam in WA states at 4c kwh or something

whole industry has moved on to large DATA halls ..

anyway but baby miners is probably as good as it is gonna get for home miner profits for fun only.......unless price was to break up to 1000 usd

which means at 12c kwh I could get my 2013 Jupiter 567gh fired back up and make 2x what I spent in electric again .....YEA!.......that would be cool!

anyway just saying odd ball situation that I am in ...and I'm pretty sure virtual cloud mining as far as the IRS is concerned just does not cut it.....

SO GO BIG GO HOME ..BE IN MY SITUATION (banker in 2013 said bitcoin was evil was fixed bank error but still) or get free elec in the dorms....thats about it

hell of a thing as to everyone else I would think in USA say maybe this summer? The congress will get involved to fix/clarify some of this stuff
that the IRS got wrong...at that point you all go hey..gee......2015 was a very good year.....(esp if they don't have the tax on mining) and declare
your income then (no taxes if you don't spend it likely 20% on capital gains again if you did) that is what i WOULDA waited for w/o the bank issue
but be aware..hopefully something more sensible will come out of all this and such hoops I have had to jump thru being legal you can simply find amusing
in 20/20 hindsight (my wish sheesh)

so yeah even some sorta kinda baby miners kinda sorta profit would be worthwhile in my case say this fall ...for anyone else..er not so much

I wish I picked up on mining BTC when I had the chance several years ago. I was going to buy a bunch but shrugged it off lol, my mistake. Now its not worth attempting to mine would not make any money solo mining it seems.

yes. it is super risky stuff:), just because by buing mining gear, you are betting on price of BTC and for difficulty predictions. not even talking about fire hazard, robbery, noise, heat...and 34 other annoying things related.

Solo mining is dying and unless you are a necromancer you are not advised to play it. BTC mining is very alive and in evolution, though. Methods are fading away but new methods are being born. It is the nature of BTC we must adapt to. Although I read alot of people here have doubts about cloud mining, my acquaintance has made a nice amount of money from it already. No, it wasn't problemless but he hasn't given up, become more experienced and now he has significant success in it. I too am willing to try it very soon.


What was the reason behind your deed that you shrugged it off?

That's because most of it is a scam, and some is being hacked so can't pay the users. But, I agree with you that we must adapt for it.

There is no binary option that you have to do Cloudmining only, or install own miners local exclusively. From my history it is doable to add Cloud to owned equiment for coping with exploding Difficulty.
However, then you have numbers to compare. Expect your local install will jield better results than the rented one.

You're right. As someone who used it that way, I know what you mean. It is not that we forget our old methods. We have to open our minds to accept new methods. It is up to your creativity how you combine them.

This is a correct way to stop it, and you need to believe that this is the best for you.

Hi miners,

Guys i want to offer a new solution for small miner to get back to the mining business.

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I also can offer miners in USA and Canada financing but you must have a registered corporation.


Miners
We only need to worried about the difficult of the coin.


Example: two antminer S1
one equipment directed to your bitcoin information, the other unit to NAMSTEC.


I have other miners sending us gear, i can send contracts,references, tracking number ..I can posted information.


If you want to buy cloud mining for example: We send you the information from where we purchase units, tracking plus contract from usfor each purchase.

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By buying BTC directly you will end up with more BTC that you would mining.

True story.

I also had to stop playing the game mining because g*lden c*s  :'(

Mining on you HDD - That's right, almost no power usage! Is now possible for everyone!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FHvD3b30ks


Here is a video on how to use it. :)


Mining is back! A different style that is still a 'traditional' style of mining, completely reborn, uses hardly any power, and is very fun!

From what I've heard the days of BURST mining are long gone. When it initially released it was a fairly profitable coin, but not so much anymore.

However I have heard of some users GPU mining Ethereum and making a little bit of money off that, so if you have a couple spare GPU's that might be worth looking into.

nice FUD, but you're incorrect @ burst being long gone. Just because people expect to get rich overnight, doesn't mean a coin is gone. HDD mining takes almost no power, unlike all of the power-hungry algorithms, and thus is almost always profitable, even if it doesn't make you a millionaire overnight (but what coin does? Do any of you mining with ASICS or GPUs even make much of anything after the power bill?)

not to mention, it has been proven to barely work the drives at all, never damaging any drive. It actually works them less than just normal HDD use. So mining can continue for a very long time.

ETH may never accomplish anything fully. BURST already accomplished a cross-chain transfer (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4vYMJwBtRGLLVQ0OElQRzJackE/edit) with their Automated Transactions.


Not to mention, with the new GUI, it is now very easy for anyone to start mining.

So please, quit shilling for ETH, and stop slandering BURST.

edit: oh, did I mention that BURST did all of this with NO FUNDING? Yea.

I'm not shilling for Ethereum or trying to slander BURST, I was just mentioning that "if you have a couple spare GPU's (Ethereum) might be worth looking into" and that I didn't think BURST was a very profitable coin to mine. Take a look at my post history, I've never mentioned Ethereum before either, I was just saying that I've heard Ethereum is a profitable coin to mine.

Also, I'm not sure how you figure BURST mining is profitable either. According to this calculator (https://bchain.info/BURST/tools/calculator), you'd be making about 0.011 BTC per month if you used a 3 TB hard drive (so your initial cost would be ~ $85 USD, and that's a very conservative estimate as well). 0.011 BTC per month would barely cover the power cost of running an efficient BURST mining setup (let's say an RPi + HDD, that would take about 10 watts), but just for fun let's say that you aren't paying power costs. With an income of 0.011 BTC per month ($2.55 USD) it would take you 33 months to pay off your investment of just the hard drive. Keep in mind that this would be on a super efficient setup as well. If you pay power, and run the hard drive for BURST mining in a desktop, you wouldn't make any money because of power costs. A desktop would take ~ 40W (conservative estimate again), which would cost more than $2.55 USD to run for a month in most areas in North America. Please correct me if any of my numbers are off, but they should be fairly accurate.

It's great that BURST completed a cross-chain transfer, did everything without funding, and barely uses hard drives, etc, etc but I wasn't talking about what the coins accomplished, I was talking about what coins are profitable for mining.

Then you did a great decision. Mining isn't profitable as of now because of the price.

Yes, if you're purchasing special gear just to mine BURST it's not the most profitable right now, but the thing is, (also who we're currently 'targeting') everyone already has free hard drive space. We're trying to get the word out that people can get into mining a crypto with the gear they already have, while at the same time not decreasing the usability of their computers, and not upping their power bill.

This will also make the decentralization of the coin much higher, as any normal user with any computer with free space, can mine the coin, and get into the world of cryptocurrencies. we're aiming for the future, getting more people into the coin, and getting people using crypto in general.

mining still profitable now after bitcoin price fall and electric cost is expensive. i think better i buy bitcoin and sell when price up

Get a cheap solar panel and battery, I power 2 USB hubs and my router for diddly squat!
Even if I'm playing the solo game with a few of them, it's a rough game to play.
I hope you make ROI back if you sell 'em.  :D

It's sad that things like this happen to good people that want to help the network as much as they want to make money. We're leading ourselves towards centrilization.

Which is why HDD mining is so much better. Soon it will catch on, and people will stop spending ridiculous amounts of money just to mine and keep the network going. ANYONE can mine on their hard drive, anyone. Whether you're running an old crappy 32bit pentium4 or a top of the line system, it doesn't matter, they all run flawlessly with HDD mining and BURST. It is simply irrefutable that it is WAY more power efficient, and more secure, there's so much that is better about it, easily kept decentralized, and costs people nothing to get started.

Add on top of that Automated Transactions, Decentralized marketplace, escrow, and Encrypted Messaging, and you've got a platform that is worthy of the future for sure. All of this is BURST. Only thing that isn't quite there yet, is full recognition by the community, and beyond. Once that happens, HDD mining will be the future, and BURST will be the first of the future, the innovator of the mining style that killed power hungry PoW algorithms.

Hey support the future of bitcoin mining here may be we can build up something good for all
http://igg.me/at/BITMIN/x/9509081 (http://igg.me/at/BITMIN/x/9509081)

Notice the SCAM OF A MACHINE they say are gonna run this above cloud mining.


https://www.minerslab.com/product/smart-miner-3-0-rack-mount-20ths-bitcoin-miner/ (https://www.minerslab.com/product/smart-miner-3-0-rack-mount-20ths-bitcoin-miner/)

20TH for 4.7k hell.....they'd have to be next door and me do a tour and me run the thing and see it do so or I'd believe that
aliens are settling in colonies on the moon first. :)

I mean really ..really...or are these guys just pulling our leg? I do notice after 13hrs the above quoted Indiggo campaign has made zip nada nothing :)

and GEE WIZ GUYS these units have been out since DEC 2014!!!!! according to Youtube :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPcG9kk5EIM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPcG9kk5EIM)

(sing a song of SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM .................sheesh.....what a bunch of hooey!) Heh posted by a NEWBIE with 2 posts ..yeah you be legit as heck (NOT!) :)

but then again looking at the above was a frigging laugh riot I must admit :) in the sense of an EPIC Fail! :)

What country if I may ask?

Well guys

The new 3rd Gen Spondoolies should be hitting the shelfs at xmas hopefully at 15Th/s a machine with a 4 x Power Efficiency rating from SP35

I am currently trying to pull together a consortium of miners who want to carry on mining

I have a few 14ft ISO containers I am converting like the Cryptokube with 36 x Spondoolies in each container.

I have 3 phase power and broadband directly to each container.

Starting with 1 Kube at a cost of £147,750 to setup and a ROI of under 11 months. I would be paying out to Bitcoin addresses Weekly a percentage share to each investor. All financial forecasts and budgets would be available to share online through SharePoint. I am a trading business so this is all above and beyond legit. I work as a Project Manager in IT and love Bitcoin Mining, I also love Excel so I find great pleasure in creating forecasts that are deadly accurate.

This mine could create up to 5 Bitcoins per day and this is only the beginning if I can get funding together for another Kube then it will happen. Continuously building on this will be a tremendous achievement and a first in Scotland.

I will be getting sheeting the outside of the container in Solar Panels (not that they will do much but every bit counts)

Got a good deal on the power through ecotricity.co.uk they have also offered to help with the Solar panels too. All there electricity comes from Hydro, Wind and Solar power.

I have been in touch with Spondoolies and been put on a mail list as soon as the new miners are up for sale. So currently at Seeding stage for this.

All investors will be acquiring a SHARE of the company which will be a Limited company based in Scotland. Obviously we will have to pay TAX as and where necessary.

I must say the weather in Scotland is perfect for this especially in a ISO Container.

If you are interested and have cash to invest in a PRIVATE MINE

I am also looking for Android Code developers to help build a App/Monitoring for android phones similar to the Genesis Hive app they use.

Any suggestions or ideas let me know

High electricity bill is one of the main problem.

you are new with 1 post by now most of us are tired of posters like you.

My suggestion is prove you are real.

 Use an escrow  take a cc take paypal.  have guy from sp-tech quote your post . 

The big problem is even if you do all that plus really set the gear up in a container you could attach a truck and disappear into the night.

Which coin still give positive return?

When searching for lower cost ellectricity I looked at ecotricity. Their domestic Tariff is headlined with.

and is currently 20 Cents / KWH, one of the more expensive in the UK.

Of course their Business customers may get a better deal, but if I was them I would not be that happy with my nice green energy being blasted out into the Scottish Countryside.  :)

Rich

Op do you want a motivation about the mining industry?
Today i have watched a video where is mentioned a mining farm in china.
And guess what? they mine 100 Bitcoins a day, for more details here is the youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=535&v=K8kua5B5K3I

soon it won't be possible for an average bitcoiner to mine bitcoins... sorry to hear that you're out of mining game.
don't think that there is a way to mine bitcoins except huge mining farms... unless a revolutionary mining rig comes with economical electricity input and considerable mining power.

 Here you go guys...get an SP50 at 50k usd (probably) and 13,740 WATTS at 110 PH plus minus 10% in a 11 u rack :)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521520.msg12501293#msg12501293 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521520.msg12501293#msg12501293)


their blog announcement

http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/blogs/news/54091269-spondoolies-tech-reveals-a-glimpse-into-the-future-of-transaction-verification-services-hardware (http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/blogs/news/54091269-spondoolies-tech-reveals-a-glimpse-into-the-future-of-transaction-verification-services-hardware)

 11 PH miners sh*t and spondoolies puts this (at cost) in their data halls and bitfury has their chips 14nm is it? hitting their data halls in a month

Difficulty is going to go more then crazy ...I mean jeez......

This could be BEYOND interesting.....boy when the Fat Lady sings about the end of home mining ..this will probably be the cord that strikes home miners in the heart :(

By  the by anything less then a 1 year warranty and they are not serious really about selling these to the public..this puppy dies and you can't get it fixed that is
one big lump of 50k expensive space heater let me tell you :)

Let the battle for centralization to maybe 4 or 5 big asic makers and their data halls commence!!! Then we in 2018 or so read about the 'conspiracy' 'shape' the
btc universe to their will (imho a flat difficulty curve at a high level no one else can jump into mnfg or data hall wise at that point in time and thus the move
to 'encourage' the btc devs etc to make 'transaction fees' mandatory and they can clean up with flat difficulty and fees cutting up the btc mining pie 4 or 5 ways)

11 PH miners for BTC it is gonna get weird quick :)

heh (such a cynic) :)

probably not sha256, unless you have a s7 and very good electricity, i wouldn't mind diff too much, what it matter is efficiency

I'm really split between buying a card and quitting ;~;  what, with the btc per block halving every know and then. Another question.

Why do blocks halve the reward every 210000 blocks (I think) ?  Is it too replicate the idea of real, physical mining, where a resource gets scarcer and scarcer?

It extends out the miner subsidy as the value/strength of bitcoin grows. If it stayed at the original 50 and continued all 21 million would be mined before 2020.

A lot of people is dropping out the mining game. Which reminds me that this can, in a long time run, have a negative impact on the network decentralization. As more miners drop out, bigger companies are taking over mining. So my question is: will this be the cause for a 51% attack?

Hey orcanice That's alright dude their is a lot out their like you so much money investment
in the mining industry but never quits, sometime you gotta fall or fail in what you are doing but
don't lose hope with it if there is no sacrifices there are no success! you may fail a hundred times
but If you succeed it is a million times more enjoyable if you push yourself to it! keep it up dude!
just an advice.  ;D

Me too. been out for a long time and only mined coins i thought was worth it. Now dismantling rigs and moving on to something that actually gives money. Like a real life job o.O

Maybe the odds are not right for you to mine yet, the experience in failing is great when you realized that
you had invest so much money to this then you didn't reach ROI,
I feel you man!  :-[

at this moment i`m mining two coins one is eth and the other one is leocoin.

I look forward to seeing more ideas for PoW algorithms that do not so heavily favor those with free or cheap electricity

I was in the same situation and then I joined cloud mining services!! And now I am happy!

it won't change anything, because the diff will simply raise too much until the ratio between the earning and electricity would be barely profitable

it was the case for every new proclaimed new coins with cool and fresh algo, that make your mahcien consume lower, like fresh-coin

What Cloud mining site are you? and there is a risk of fraud in cloud mining and do you profit with just that?
and there are Contractual warnings that mining operations may cease depending on the price of bitcoin,
why are you happy with lower profits? you are the one to cover for the cost after all?

Can't take that message seriously. Either he is fishing for naive fools to scam, or he actually has not tried to withdraw from his "profitable" service yet ;)

Whoa! then it really is a scam? haha well I am just asking him so he would show his true colors if it is a scam or not, and I am not considering cloud mining as that profitable I had many doubts about it being fraud or not!

Sounds more like a well placed AD.

yup! he is like advertising more that suggesting on the given topic, hehe
Cloud mining is not advisable for me because of the low profit and a lot of cost.

Above all, most of the Cloud mining sites are scummers. So even if you are ok with low profit you should think twice before joining them.

They basically mine with your money.

it's the stupid high maintanance fee that kill it, because if they really have 0.05 cost for electricity and nothing added, it would be fabulous you can actually roi pretty fast

but they milk the shit out of your investment

Yup! your right, and electricity cost is way more in my country, but cloud mining can be more dangerous to try because of unreliability of it. 

I am out of mining too. Switched to minting with Mintcoin and so far it is working out better. At least the coins don't wear out and depreciate like mining gear does.


After next year, MINT will return 5% per year via minting new coins.

https://i.imgur.com/5ORlk56.jpg

Here is a pretty good post on reddit about it.
https://pay.reddit.com/r/MintCoin/comments/3puymw/consider_holding_at_least_a_small_portion_of_your/

It is difficult to home mine in European countries due to the high electricity price. The difficulty has risen and will rise 2% every 14 days due to the more efficient miner coming to market and low electricity price in some other countries.

I mine with a U2 for the fun.
If someone will co-mine with me to reach the minimum payout without fees he is welcome.

So who is "back" into the mining game since the price is back up and the difficulty is still low?

That is good to hear, I am still preparing to mine and planning in what will I am going to need for cooling a room because I am in a tropical country :( but that is not an issue right?

Sorry at 13c kwh I'm still out. Also in case you were not around in the past (2013 and 2014) when BTC price for spikes up in price....it really won't work (home mining) in that when the BTC price spikes and stays there the asic mnfg types (either scrypt or btc) simply raise the price in USD to reflect the price in BTC...so ROI (or lack there of) will stay the same

(amazing how that works huh?)

Just saying how it has 'pop'd' in the past on rallies (and of course assuming you can find scrypt or btc equip that even CAN ROI in less then 11 months at a FLAT difficulty rate..I myself have not seen one of them 'unicorns' ugly as it may be for ROI in a year or more)..at least for 'new' equip (and those were pre-orders that did not arrive anywhere near on time (or not at all)

So good luck..you may have a shot if your electric costs are under 5c kwh ..but expect the equipment to arrive late by a month or more...that seems to be best case...best calcs I've seen still put you at ROI around 10 or 11 months....if you take as a GIVEN that IF your pre-order ships (iffy?) It will likely be at least (imho) 3 months or more LATE.

So be careful!

(or was historically imho) :)

This is the proof of thought I have had in the back of my head too lately.

People complain signature campaigns pay too low or faucets are giving too little, they forget that 5 years ago when people were getting 1 btc faucets it was still worth nothing to what it is today. It's like people forget about the future and only think of the next couple of months. Imagine if bitcoin keeps adoption at the same rate it is now, with an accelerating rate in humans coming into the world and becoming adults, there are just more and more people going to be interested in cryptocurrencies. Even if bitcoin won't be the leading coin out there, I am sure many will have high values later like different fiat currencies do too.

One should consider mining as a long term investment. If the price skyrockets again then mining will be really good.
But since there are too many big players out there, right now it is very expensive to mine and get a decent profit.

Some of them or even most of them do not mine at all. They show you pictures with gigantic mining facilities so that you might think how serious they are, but in fact most them just use the Pyramid scheme. STAY AWAY is the best advice I can give.

yup! your right too much complaining and they didn't know that bitcoin back then has no value, and we are very lucky to have faucets and campaign to get free satoshi's than mining it and investing too much that it will only go to waste because it is not gonna ROI,

Mining is an effective way of earning bitcoins. But people have quit it because of following reasons
(1)Low acceptance-- Unless you’re planning on exchanging your bitcoins into other currency, you’ll need to look for shops which accept bitcoins for currency. All of the shops or other places which do accept bitcoins will be online I have yet to hear of a brick-and-mortar store which accepted  them. While online commerce isn’t the issue, the relative number of bitcoin-friendly stores is very small.
There are only a few credible online stores, and then sites like Reddit and WordPress that accept them for payment. Otherwise, you’ll have to switch it to traditional currency, which sort of defeats the purpose of bitcoins.
(2) Unstable value-- Another one of the biggest disadvantages of bitcoin mining is the fact that the value of bitcoins can fluctuate. While it’s true that all currencies fluctuate in value, bitcoins appear to be a lot more unstable compared to trusted currencies like the US Dollar or INR. In fact, bitcoins can deflate in value whenever people seem to put less trust in it or if a technical glitch occurs with the system or bitcoin exchange markets.
It can range anywhere from less than $5 per bitcoin to its current high value to far beyond. The value should stabilize if more people use the currency, but that trend is going very slow.
(3) Lack of Protection-- Since there is no central organization which controls bitcoins, there’s also no form of protection when dealing with bitcoin transactions. If you want buyer protection, you won’t have any with bitcoins. If you want your bitcoins to be insured like money is in banks, that doesn’t exist.
If you happen to lose your bitcoin wallet by accidentally deleting it, wiping your hard drive, etc., and have no backups, then your bitcoins are gone. Stuff happens, so while the chances of actually losing your bitcoins is rather low with regular backups, technology can still break.

Yeah I was wondering it too if I begin mining wont be that smart for me at least. But that was a fun road than dude. Good luck in the future if you come back in the mining games. :D

Mining directly is not for most people. If you think price will rise, just buy some bitcoins.

With high bitcoin at the moment, the difficulty will rise quickly. Most people will not ROI if they over pay the mining machines.

but they will earn more now if they have their machine ready, because no matter how fast the diff will rise, it is fixed, and it can't catch up with this furious pump that we are seeing

 Not gonna mine my old (off since feb 2015) KNC 550gh Jupiter (750 watts) but at 13c kwh I ran the numbers and it would cost me like $70.20 in elec and would pay out
using this btc calc

at now btc price of 434.20 (you have no idea the btc boner I just got typing that) :)


https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/mining (https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/mining)

I would ONLY lose 12 bucks a month (at 7% diff rise per month standard setting on the tradeblock mining calculator above ..for the 1st 30 days anyway)

If stuff keeps staying this nuts, the damn thing may live again...even if all I'm doing is swap'ing elec for btc..come to think of it it s winter ..it would probably
be a 'wash' now as a space heater.... :)

sheesh its weird this last week..I'm up like 15k on holding BTC and LTC and the Titan(s) are STILL mining 6.5 LTC a day (got 2 of them)

lostgonzo.imgur.com (http://lostgonzo.imgur.com) (my setup if interested...the KNC 550gh Jupiter (now OFF) is now used as a 'gravity assist device" to hold the miner bench to the earth) :)

this is some wild times :)

You can undervolt that Jupiter and have it run at 1W/1GHS

If you have an old bitcoin miner, it might be possible to make some bitcoin by turn it on now. Especially you electricity price is cheap and it is winter in your region. The price at $450 make it profitable for some inefficient miners.

Yeah I need a PSU *used the Jupiter one on the Titans* ... but 500 usd say coin I'll get a 'spare' corsair 1200i unit (justify it as such for the Titans as a backup) and see as a space heater and what I can get for BTC to justify a 'discount' off the spare Titan PSU above (see I can justify anything if it involves spending) would probably not last long...with everyone turning on old equip and difficulty going nuts..but hey even it I got a spare corsair 1200i sitting about for 'eventual' 100 bucks off say ..piece of mind and space heater savings may be worth it..not QUITE there yet..but it is an angle.....(should really have a spare psu for the Titans just in case anyway..losing 5-7 days would suck ..thats prob 1/2 the price of a corsair 1200i right there)

the problem from mining is difficult that increase continue and much competitor which have mining hardware that having high performance sure will be difficult for miners which have hardware mining that have low hashrate

I once was a miner, and had a few Gridseeds laying around to mine alt coins and then exchange them to BTC. Unfortunately, I've quitted too because mining cost was too expensive. The electricity rates and having to compete with different miners/hashrate makes it somewhat unprofitable. Difficulty would rise as well, making your current mining gear obsolete. Still, I'm thinking of returning to it someday (probably between Christmas or summer)   :)

Yup it is not for most people, you will need knowledge in mining and you need to gamble in what to buy and computing the expenses that will come up to you, and buying some bitcoins you will need to wait when bitcoin will go up again, not in mining if you done it right you will always ROI when bitcoin increases!

Only mine during the winter and treat the miners as space heater. Otherwise there is not much point to mine with high electricity price and high difficulty.

Do you guys think there will be a time when mining will be that much difficult that it will take one day long to mine 1 ??

The difficulty is adjusted, Up and Down, every 2016 Blocks, about 14 Days, such that a Block on average is solved every 10 Minutes. So no it will never happen.


Rich

+1
it's allways 10 minutes.
What is changing is how much each miner get for his mining.
I mine for the fun 500 satoshi per day.
I will never roi my investment and I even do not count the electricity cost.
In my pool we are 250 or so.
let suppose that 1000000 people do the same.
then it is possible that the big miners lose cash.
They cannot loose cash like all the miners like me.
Here is the problem for miners...not for the bitcoin.

For an individual, it will take longer time to mine one certain unit of bitcoin if the difficult rises.

For all the miner as a whole, there should be one block (25 bitcoin) every 10 minutes, this time varies and is random.

I'm guessing if these prices hold up, we'd see a lot of people going back into mining again.
Good times ahead, I hope.

I do not agree
To mine a block it takes always 10 minutes no import the dificulty.
if the difficulty rises it is because we are more numerous to mine or because more is mined.

you have some confusion about solo vs pool, the time is actually the same, but the solo miners will take more because the reward is more, for the pool will take less because they will earn less

if the diff was always constant, with 10 tera a solo miner will earn one block in 300 day, and in the pool it's the same, he would earn a full block in 300 days, but in the maintime he would earn small portions of his future block every day

I think you are also missing a very significant point here. A solo miner will earn one block on average in 300 day. He could earn it Tomorrow or never in his Lifetime. On a pool you will earn a full block in 300 days.

Rich

I think that mining was profitable the last few days.
Maybe the difficulty was more than before but it worth maybe.
But after the halving period i think most of miners will quit.

And if you co-mine in my team you are sure to get few satoshi if you do not reach the pool minimum payout.

It is profitable in the last few days if you mine and sell instantly. If you wait for a few more day, the price will drop, then you are not making profit.

You make an excellent point. We all do calculations on Difficulty, electric cost etc and compute how much money we will make in a Day. However an even more important factor that is easily forgotten is what will the mined BTC be worth when converted back to Local Currency...

Rich

BURST remains profitable to mine, and hardly takes any power at all, you can run 40TB of HDD space, with a single decent laptop. You can even mine with raspberry pi. Which I think will run 8TB... and drives will cost you nothing in power, are relatively inexpensive to purchase, and have great resell value. So it's kinda funny that people aren't jumping all over it.


But... the time is near. I see the people who used to support hardcore BTC mining, dwindling in their support of it, I see the people who used to love BTC, moving on to love a new tech that makes mores sense as far as sustainability... I mean really, do we all think that when EVERYONE knows about crypto, that mining with ASICs is still going to make sense?? Where is all of this power coming from? Or are we going to give in and just allow a few central authorities to run the entire network? Then if so, have we even gotten anywhere with this whole venture?


BURST has everything that BTC  doesn't, and so much more. Not to mention working Automated Transactions before anyone else, and without any funding whatsoever. While ETH was still thinking, and collecting millions to help, BURST had proved the existing  ability to make use of its Automated Transactions.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few other projects that will be amazing as well, but BURST is definitely one of them.



Running a hard drive for 60-120 seconds every 4 minutes or so, and a CPU or GPU at partial capacity to read that HDD, is nothing. It is basically the same as running your computer, without mining.

If you disagree, I challenge you to try it.


If you like mining, what have you got to lose? Not power, maybe a few hours time in learning an awesome technology? That's sad, why would you want to do that... lol ;)

i'm impatient to see what will happen after the halving.

The only reference we have is the 2012 halving, but the overall market conditions are completelly different. These days halving from 50 to 25BTC resulted in absulutely nothing:

http://oi65.tinypic.com/1z6jy8.jpg

By principle same will happen with less "amplitude" (if it is the right word)

12.5BTC will be mined every 10 minutes in average...for 25BTC now...

Many people will then mine and lose...certainly...
Miner hardware will then be sold...for low price.

Today i saw a video about mining and thought i should give it a try,.... So i downloaded the software and using the btc calculator, calculated the profit. . i was in loss with my current hardware, and i just can't buy new hardware requured for the purpose... So i dropped the idea at once.. Also, my laptop became really hot within minutes of running the software...
by the way i am nrw to the btc world and this forum..

This time the market situation is not that same, so can't expect growth even when halving takes place.
Those days halving means surely there will increase in price now it has changed.

Sad to hear you lost money on that one. I guess that with the current prices (that are somewhat low) it is harder yet. Have you tried POS coins? You can invest a little and not risk much. I love NETcoin for example, that provides some interest in the form of newly staked coins every few (six) hours.

You have to catch the moment when you have get some coins, but price hadn't fall down too much. Every POS coin is vulnerable to inflation and massive dumps. Greed is the major enemy of POS coins holders.

Now that you mention PoS coins, a good way to earn some good profit is by investing into Tekcoin. Its price has gone down drastically which makes it a great choice to buy a huge stack of them while you still can and earn some pretty good stakes. The good thing about Tekcoin is that once you have some coins, just wait every 30 days for them to mature and earn some stakes.  :)

POS is a great option the only thing is you have to have coins to start, but you could do that, or... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1323657.0;topicseen

PoC ;) you can in almost every scenario mine with something you've already got, takes almost no power (just like PoS) and has a more 'mining' feel to it, because, well, it's mining!

hell, do them both! :)

you can go big, you can go small, doesn't matter. If you run your PC anyway, no reason not to. We even have a GUI miner/plotter/wallet now. Give it a shot!

Of course. As well as PoS mining could be profitable depending on the coin, I do mine Proof of Concept coins as well like BURST. That makes it an excellent combination for me to generate a decent amount of profits which takes place mostly into investing in BURST assets and staking Tekcoins.  ;D

I am thinking out of the mining game too, becouse price is getting higher and this is  to expensive.

I am having a little play with Burst as something to do when Bitcoin get'e even sillier than it is already...

Got to say it's good fun, consumes almost no additional power as I have several PC's running all the time and the only investment needed is in some additional hard Drive capacity which will always be handy.  :) Just one snag though, they are not worth anything, but I do like watching the Ninga display and seeing how you are doing.


Rich

FINALLY someone with a LAMER life then myself :)

link to the burst stuff? (I am bored and may sink to your level of silliness) :(

 ;D

This is the best current thread, the links in the OP are good. Takes a bit of getting going as it's not as mature as bitcoin, but quite a nice distraction from the heat & Cost of Bitcoin...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1323657.0

Rich

me too.

I know that now the mining becomes unprofitable in the areas where the electricity prices are high. All my mining friends continue with mining only because they have free electricity or the the price of it close to nothing.

But I hope when the price of BTC rises to over $450 the mining will be profitable again in most areas.

I'm still in it until spring/summer rolls around. I'm basically using mining hardware to heat the house since its pretty cold here ~-10C and electricity is cheap. Once it gets warm, I'm going into minimal mining mode, cutting back on clock rates to increase efficiency.

My hardware already produced 5x the ROI since I started back in 2012. And already cashed out a lot when BTC hit over 1k.

At the moment, I'm losing money while mining in terms of electricity costs but at the same time it allows me to use the heater less often.

I don't know anything about these guys but a couple of recommendations...no idea if you have to host a particular amount of time either.


But on 13.7c kwh the rates I was quoted (a month or so back) when I looked into it ...supposedly with fees and 40 buck new account

fee...and of course to 'ship' your titan to them....came out to ball park figure (according to them) of 8c kwh

On my two Titan(s) that came out to about 114 bucks a month savings in electric

again not saying I know these guys...but has got me thinking about summer months maybe I will have to punt to host or shut off

(unless frigging BTC goes up taking LTC and scrypt up with it...these prices for LTC say are not gonna float come summer..just saying)

so anyone know or use these folk?

http://www.greatnorthdata.com/ (http://www.greatnorthdata.com/)

If nothing else they were 'prompt' with a reply via email on costs


anyway for those who MAY want to 'dangle' in the 'home mining' ie 'boarding school version' for a bit longer :)

My Block Erupters ROI'd, my Radeons ROI'd and my Antminer S5 ROI'd.

But the truth is I'll probably never make a profit mining due to the miner I ordered in 2013 for $5k from Black Arrow. I never received a god damn thing and they refuse to refund my money despite not shipping me anything. I fucking hate Romanian scammers. The limey bastards in the UK are fucking sheltering these worthless pieces of shit.

Even though we are trying to be highly secure from cheaters, we are getting trapped. This has to be stopped. Recently I heard mining is not profitable with the increased power as well as requirement prices. So most are getting out of it. Even someone trying to do mining also cheated. Is there any way to use escrow while purchasing requirements for mining.

Exactly like that. ROI doesn't really depend upon the technology harnessed. If you got that patience to HODL these coins.

But the wrong supplier can really wreck it!

I try but end up flipping coins for things like gas and potatoes.
:-\

However, I have high hopes for Ethereum and struggle to HODL my small cache of ETH.

Yeah, basically that's why we need the Bitcoin price rising, it would be easier to roi then. But actually it looks like it has started already, we have $385 now and only yesterday it was like $375 as I can remember. Let's cross fingers so it won't go back again.

I would love to still be mining, but its just not worth it where I am either. Each time I got new hardware it was only a short time before I had to power down, only ever got ROI on GPU mining.

try the comining with me...

why? what happened bro...you can make good profit from this you know?!

Problem is that if the price goes up more miners pile in and difficulty skyrockets. Besides, why not just buy the bitcoin anyway and sell when it goes up.

Mining is a queen's race. And it's not possible to make long term economic profit in a game like mining. Too perfect competition.

you are right...because it is logic...

Open a bread shop in a village...without breadshop...
you will certainly make profit...
if a second person opens one...the situation is different already...
if many people open...perhaps you will even loose...

good profit only if you've roi'd, otherwise it's only a race between you and the roi time, before your asic become obsolete

Mining is easier than it has ever been - we have machines built specifically to mine!

Making a profit is becoming unobtainable.

Which is why we shouldn't mine SHA anymore, but instead, move on along to something that makes more sense...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1323657.0;topicseen


MINE WITH HARD DRIVES. They don't have any of the issues that ASICs do. Just sayin'




Before you go postal on me, think about it long term and also the fact that it doesn't damage the drives. Okay are you relaxed? Now really try it. Good. Carry on.

BURST will always have the inherent issues that it can be overtaken easily with a 51% attack since it's not as disseminated. One of the reasons for the reasons for the race to ASIC was for security (which oddly now seems more threatening).

So you mean to say that we should put Bitcoins on some new algorithm and then start the process again???
Is that what you want to say???
Mining with Hard Drives ain't good too, and who says mining doesn't damage our hard drives, these machines heat too like ASICs...

I have been using Great North Data for almost a year now, but with my hardware and the obnoxious increases in difficulty the last few months I do not think it is possible to make a profit going forward (unless the BTC price goes up a lot).

Mining will kill you. Don't do it for profit, because profit will never happen. It's pointless now for the average miner, and even in places like Washington state in the u.s with cheap electricity, you probably won't make much. Difficulty is jumping like a kangaroo on steroids, and unless you have some sort of hyperefficient solar farm, yeah, its dead.

In this mining world, electricity price is the key. If it is over $0.1/kWh, it is very difficult to make profit.

I made a profit on my S5s - barely - by selling them off "just in the nick of time".
I made a small profit on my SP20 by selling it off.

 Without those sales, I'd have lost money on mining Bitcoin (I'm officially out as of Monday when I ship the last of the S5s to Hawaii).

 I've actually made a fair bit on mining Litecoin so far, but that's been a bit rocky too - lost money on my Gridseeds, but made a fair bit back in GPU days and will end up still  ahead if I even achieve breakeven or very close overall on my A2s.



 The last few months, though, have been a nightmare for folks trying to get into mining and make a profit, unless they had VERY VERY cheap electric - and even then it's been iffy.


 The 14/16nm generation should be a game changer, though - instead of having a year OR LESS most commonly before the "next gen gear" hits and kills profitability on older gear, it should take a few YEARS before the 14/16nm full custom gear gets outdated.

eth imo looks hot now for mining.

not anymore, there are better alternative, even spreadcoin is slightly more profitable

diff is still increasing on average

where do you calculate what coins has the most profit?

it's easy, you look at the net hashrate, then you divide for your hashrate

then you do the math about the total coins produced by the network, based on the block time  and block reward

and divide the total coins by the ratio you get from nethash/yourhash, and finally multiply the number of coins for the price

You can try http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency or https://www.whattomine.com/ :).

Coinwarz is great for current profit but it does not change difficulty like one needs on some currency.  Over time this will lead to HUGE differences just by not having a difficulty change.

If bitcoin I suggest bitwisdom - https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator .  They also have a litecoin calculator aswell.  But it's very good with difficulty changes which leads to long term better speculation.

I just sold (4) S3 locally for $150 USD so I'm happy - I couldn't have mined that much in 60 days even.