Bitcoin Forum

I look at some coins like NODES and NEM which claim to be new codes but how do we know they are not just ripping off and plagiarising the NXT code?

I'm not technical but can you rip off the basic shell of a coin, use another programming language to cover it up more and say it's started 'from scratch' as a non technical person I personally don't have the skills to look at 'new' coins and know if they are ultimately and to what degree they have 'borrowed' ideas off NXT.


I'm sure NEM and NODE defenders will need to be heard but my point is can we really know even when we see the source code?

forget about it all QORA NXT NEM NODE its all a blatant joke.  the end is near, when the godly destructor is ready with these things then the sky will get dark and heavy rain will pour into the canyon washing these parasites away along with it.

~CfA~

hahha thanks, have a nice day.

thanks u too and get out of the qora-nxt-ora-nem-node-illuminati axis fast as u know its a criminal act to invest money into it

~CfA™~

when the core and economic parameters fundamentally change -

so the PoW Algo + the fundamental economics parameters.  

you could say that's a new thing.


so from "Bitcoin"

PoS ( Proof of Stake)  is new

Po$  ( Proof of Scam) Is new   ( all IPO Crypto)

cPoW Proof of work with an EQ reward is new  (Myraid if it has an EQ ) ( Quark + clones)

I'm not wanting to argue. But sounds like what you are defining as new is just tweaking of some parameters and saying it's a NEW code. Surely it's just a small change looking at the bigger picture? yeah it might improve the coin but it's essentially the same coin, right?


To me a new code from scratch is not even influenced by another coin. Cause Like I said I'm not technical I want to know what is truely new about these new coins and what is smoke and mirrors.

I'll be honest I do t really trust these new coins that say they were going to be a NXT clone and then overnight turn around and say they are coded from scratch, it smells a bit fishy to me.

I'm fact finding I'm open to be convinced.

I wonder how we can check source codes from independent people who could really know how much a 'NEW coin' has plagiarised NXT and how innovative it really is?


Problem is so many people with skills are attached to projects and have their bias but the community needs some way to know what is under the hood of these new coins because I bet 95% of investors have NO IDEA other than the logo design and name of the coin what they are buying.

1. a discussion isn't an argument.

2. if you are talking about an "e-cash" protocol then the Bitcoin PoW is derived from the something called "Hashcash"  but the principal of the decentralized ledger is unique to the Bitcoin protocol the NSA white paper of 1996 covers the details and attributes of the actual protocol, Bitcoin basically used the "Hashcash" PoW for a "Decentralized ledger"

now

I would argue that a "Crypto currency" has a :

1. Decentralized ledger
2. uses encryption to secure it

"Emuni" is a ground up system that has a decentralized ledger - but i'm not sure of the encryption or other aspects.

NXT is a Po$ IPO ( that is to say they use PoS after the "Proof of scam" issuance period.)

I would argue both of those are new, so it comes down to what you want to call a "Clone."

likewise Quark and Myriad.

it comes down to your level of education i guess?

I'm getting the vibe you are against POS from the start so maybe you are not the best person to be involved in this discussion. Leave that for another time.


Most people aren't educated in crypto technology, we all have specialisms, ask the average brain surgeon about the merits of POW over POS and they will look blankly at you. Personally, from a purely technical point of view I find Crypto incredibly boring, not everyone needs to know how their phone works to enjoy it.


I've always thought if you can't explain something complicated to a child you probably don't understand it yourself very well. Your points are off on a tangent.

The question is how much is really new and how much is borrowed. If say for example we talked about music we could say it's a straight cover of a song, or it's in a different genre or they just sampled a few seconds or it's inspired by the original and we can also put things into percentages and in a way the layman can understand.

nope - i actually support a few PoS crypto currency,    I'm generally warily bullish on Caps (CAP) and Hobo Nickels (HBN)  they both had an extended PoW period.

I can explain it to a child, i didn't know you wanted that?



I have done that i used a Jenga Picture to explain "Proof of Work" :

http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/what-is-proof-of-work-distribution-or-sometimes-stated-as-pow-for-cryptocurency-beginners/



I explained how Japan is a Fiat bag-holder nation with an Egg picture and 3 graphs:

http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/so-the-japanese-train-wreck-finally-pulled-in-to-the-station/



I explained the NXT scam with pictures:

http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/07/31/cryptocurrency-to-cryptocurrency-ipos-are-a-completely-corrupt-deception-the-simple-technical-guide/



***** oh dam i just realized you're a NXT sock puppet oh dam sorry bro - continue ...

you guys got me !

eggs on my face !

yeah but your not explaining anything close to the question in the OP. that's why I said your not the best person to get involved here cause you clearly want to say some unrelated stuff about how you feel about NXT. Have a drink, take a nap and find another thread.

And yeah you do have egg on your face cause you either can't read or follow a simple discussion or your just muddle headed. You clearly aren't on the same page as the OP discussion.

I don't own a single NXT coin Sherlock.

What about Proof of Capacity... even Burst seems to be a rip-off...

anyone know how many are actually from scratch?

The question is not on the mechanics of the POS algo it's the coding of different coins, read the OP for fucks sake. This topic got sidelined almost instantly by the above clown.

In my opinion NXT and QORA (see my footer, i must be biassed) are new code and not clones.

It is hard to say what is new and what not. If they use totally different coding languages or library's it will be quite sure it is not a clone.
If a coin has its typical behaviour (like forging nxt) is a good signal i think. And if the wallet looks very different is also a goed signal.
Also if your run a QORA wallet you will see it behaves very different from other coins.

I don't think QORA is a clone of NXT. All the other NXT clones are very similar to NXT you can see by the walletsoftware they use.

Hi rabbiter,

Although you may express yourself like a troll sometimes, I think you are raising a valid point in your OP post.

The solution to the cloning/innovation problem should be solved by independent code audits. Meaning, independent reputable people in the industry are payed to audit the code and establish its quality, security, novelty, etc. In fact, NEM has already planned for such audits to take place after the official launch. Indeed, until such audits happen, a useful heuristic would be to ask for the opinion of the most important developers from the coin which is suspected to be cloned(Nxt in this case). I hope it helps to hear this has also been done. In fact both Jean-Luc and Come-from-Beyond, the lead developers of Nxt, expressed interest and curiosity with regard to NEM.

Here are some of their thoughts:

• Jean-Luc: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576480.msg6311955#msg6311955
• Come-from-beyond: https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/come-from-beyond-and-nem/

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
xtester

Hey talk about Egg ! i've also just found this !!! how could i have missed this !
 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=713538.0

Bitfreak - implemented the mini blockchain -

still a clone?

suppose its not a IPO scam?

Cryptonite themselves say the coin is a fork of the a bitcoin core.

More egg..

Even if we had more independent people and sites that could review coins at more depth than currently the norm. I don't buy anything big till I read a ton of reviews from various sources.

While I'm a big supporter of Qora and trust in their claims they are truly a new code I want it's claims put under as much scrutiny as all the others. At the moment we are investing blind and trusting on the developers hype.

We didn't have this problem till quite recently with so many coins claiming built from scratch, this is going to be essential moving forward.


Jean Luc and CfB are still gonna have their biases being so close to NXT. It's gonna need a more open team of people not just a few individuals. People have been calling for an Independent team to review Qora rather than go open source, now personally I disagree and think they should go open source but I think the need is there for a reputable team of source code checkers. Or at least a forum where various people can dive in review the code and give their thoughts and findings and the various voices just like user reviews can build a fuller picture of a coins code.

Maybe all that is needed is moderated threads for a coin inviting people to review and post their findings once a source code is released?

Open source project is not without drawback. Anyone can just copy your idea and work and put more effort into marketing their own coin.

well that's why we are discussing it. But there is a scale of how much a coin is doing something new or not. A coin using some principles of another and another that just clones the code is vastly different and people need to know if their product is genuinely innovative or just another clone whose code is plagiarised and tracks covered by various ways. That's not to say a clone has no purpose but people need to be able to know for themselves what they are investing in and compare that with the hype of the developer.

I agree. That's the problem especially since we have no restrictions here and some people are just pumping many clones.
I would it either when it offers something unique compared to Bitcoin (not faster block times, confirmations, random rewards etc.), or when it was coded from scratch.
Then again this is the same as asking what makes up a good coin?

The new Goldcoin (GLD) java client will fit the bill and then some.  :)

https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=2616.msg12556#msg12556

People can make up their own mind what is a good coin, everyone can use Dogecoin as the world reserve currency for all I care but people should know what it is.  I don't want to buy a Rolex and find out it's actually a copy just like I don't want to buy a phone and find it's a Chinese rip off. Some people are happy with a rip off but no one expects to pay the same as for the original.

But no one is being conned here, I dont know much about the coin but I assume it's labelled as based on Bitcoin. There is nothing wrong with improving on an already established coin as long as it's labeled as such.

I guess this is no different from any consumer product laws where if you buy a piece of Beef you don't want to find out it's Donkey meat. I just don't like relying on the developer or the community to be honest about how they developed the coin. The onus should be on them to prove it is with evidence, too easy to say new code built from scratch these days and no one questions if it's true.

My view is simple:

When a clone can stand on its own with its own network effect and payment system, then it ceases being a clone and become a man.

You can't call an Apple an Orange. If a clone does well then it's technically a successful clone. I do know what you are saying but its off topic.

when they look and work the same essentially..

i just deleted 39 coins block chains totaling about 14 gb's (no BTC but i had Litecoin being the biggest at around 4gb's)
95% of all my block chains were outdated from last year too.. god knows how big they would be if i updated them all now !

backed up the wallet.dat's to a USB drive and deleted almost every coin.. this shit is ridiculous.. last year, never mind now HAhhaha
(most coins i never bothered getting the wallet for too)

And what makes a clone ? they all had the same wallet.dat so what the fuck does that tell us ?
well except for Multibit for Bitcoin.
same shit different shit coin clone pile..

when it add something new , but it can still be considered a semi-clone, i don't think there are a completely new coin here, they are always at least in part a bitcoin clone

How much more complex and anon is the Euro compared to the USD to give it the higher value. I am investing the British Pound now because of it's strong currency and the fact they releasing ANON v3 , along with a new algorithm.

At then of the day currencies are meant to be as simple as possible, it's the stuff people build around it that can be made complex.

Coins like XMR will never go mainstream, hell most crypto geeks even get confused by it.

Many of the altcoin have their own unique strength and feature. So I won't call them an exact clone.

what gives value to real monetary fiat is way more complicated and includes more factors than crypto, if you knew exactly you would be rich.

does rubbing two pennies you found on the ground together magically turn it into millions of dollars ?

There is *some truth to what you say i give you that, but it sure as hell takes money to make money.
although i made thousands from squat so i guess i know what i am doing LOL
Nvidia gpu worth $20 ? oh don't even bother your too late you won't make anything i was told 100%
..buuuuul-shit LOL
I turned 0.00000001 FTC into many BTC almost all cashed out at 1k usd each :)
And if i listened to what others ran their big mouths about i would have not even tried !
Internet is nothing but loud mouth idiots.. except me of course i am a searing white hot comet of awesome  8)

I could make money on Crypto but not fiat in money markets though.. i don't know anything about that stuff :(
I doubt you will find very many guys that got rich with Fiat currencies who did it starting with no large cash investments etc..
that is what separates crypto markets from fiat markets.. i can mine some coins but i can't mine fiat :(

so there you have it MY opinion (the correct one)  8)

It's like dating a person.  The more you talk - the more reasons you provide for them to not put out.  Slapping on all these features over complicates what should be a simple thing and complexity scares people off.


The most successful crypto will be one with a mobile preference - without junk littering the screen.

That was the most spectacular case of missing the point I have ever read on this forum.

Your quotations are broken.  Google did look into crypto currencies but they pulled out last I heard.  Amazon does already have virtual money like Amazon coins.

The issue with a big corporation in creating a crypto currency is crypto currencies largely derive their value from being decentralized, anonymous and international.  Doesn't stop a small corporation like Stellar and Ripple from trying, though