Bitcoin Forum

For Bitcoin to be accepted as a reliable and convenient currency by the average consumer, it needs to become much more open to smaller transactions (such as paying for groceries, bar bills, or school supplies).

Right now I wouldn't even dream of paying with Bitcoin for anything but large transactions online.

Bitcoin will never grow into a usable currency unless this changes. It will continually be a place for speculators and investors to place money and play with the market.

Thoughts?

What are you talking about? Bitcoin ain't even taxed (in many countries). It's only a small .09 cent fee for anything. I think you would like taxes better at a 4% plus bottle taxes and all that other shit.

There is no simple way to pay with bitcoins for a $4 purchase at a convenience store.

Bitpay. Easily send the coins within 5 seconds and done.

Take my phone out of my pocket, navigate, log in using secure password, send bitcoin, wait, wait, wait, txn complete, vendor waits, waits, waits, shows up in blockchain, waits, waits, waits, waits, confirmations, leave store 15 minutes later.

Alternatively - use fiat credit card, 30 seconds, out of there.

Confirmations need to be quicker as well. I understand this will come with time if more people start mining, but still - if more miners appear, more users will appear and the load will be the same.

It's 0 confirms actually.

If customer and vendor are on same gateway then process could be expedited. For example sake: retrieving btc-e code on btc-e is instantaneous. Right now, it seems like Bitpay is focused on merchants only. May be if they integrate customers then that may expedite transaction process.

You could still walk out of the store after double spending with 0 confirms, and they could not "charge back" or persecute you at all.

Who's going to double spend a small transaction?

Oh, look sweetie, I made $3 on a double spend of Bitcoins today. lol

I've shoplifted smaller items in the past than $3...  ::)

My hero.

I'm simply stating - if people CAN double spend, they WILL double spend.

9kv

if your admitting your a thief then shouldnt you be loving bitcoin, which in your words means that when you pay and walk out with 0 confirms you have 10 minutes to try scamming the system..??

shouldnt you be loving it?

oh wait your on a rant because you cant mess with the system and your just stating as issues which are not issues because you're mad that you cant game the system, thus you want to hate it.

so how about you go back to credit cards and go chargeback scam them, you crazy thieving idiot.

the other possibility is that your trying to cause negative vibes in the hope people pnic sell for you to buy in cheap.. which i find as investment savvy, but just as immoral

People can and do all kinds of illegal things now. Why is bitcoin different in that respect?

I bet it would take you more than $3 worth of resources to double spend $3 after 30 seconds.

Miners fee is least 0.0001btc, < 0.0001 transaction won't be comfirmed

Music tracks. Bitcoin should have become the primary method of payment for music tracks. No need for a central authority like iTunes. Indy bands could sell from their own servers and get paid 100% of the revenue. Load up your music player with a few Bitcoins and start listening.

For music track sales to work, transactions under $1 must be cheap and fast. They have to be protected against double-spending, or people will buy tracks from multiple sources simultaneously using the same Bitcoins.

(Someone is doing this (https://www.coindl.com/page/category/music). Unfortunately, most tracks cost 0.01BTC.  One costs $0.999 BTC. The cheapest ones are crap techno. None of the music is above garage-band level. To make this work as a business, you need a better catalog than CoinDL.)

I think the Bitcoin processing companies can make more profit from merchants than from customers. As the customers' base is increasing to as big as enough which will make them pay attention on customers.

You need to remember that any expense that the merchant incurs will ultimately be passed onto the consumer. Even if the company does not directly impose some kind of charge for the added expense they will rise their prices a little bit to cover merchant services fees.

I wish these micro-transactions were more friendly, what happens to the .09 cent fee when bitcoin is worth 1 thousand dollars? 20 cents, and if bitcoin ever hits 1 million? 200 dollar fees. Now, I doubt it will hit the big mil, but IF. If it does, we will be paying 200 dollar transaction fees.

That would be a 21 trillion Market cap possible.

Probably some alt coins will coexist with Bitcoin, play the role of small amount of transaction. Its transaction fee is small enough to be ignored, especially when the BTC's value increases dramatically. Even small amount of transaction fee 0.0001BTC costs a lot of fiat.

You are completely onto a point,to make it a currency accepted in wide base small payments even at a candy store or ice cream truck should start accepting bitcoin.And i see it coming as well with time things doesn't turn out immediately it takes some time

I guess the same people who use fake cash bills or stolen credit cards. But doublespending is harder, you need a lot of hashing power for decent chance of success

Indeed I agree there should be a % fee not a fixed fee, but this would affect large transactions..even 5% of 1million is too much.

I'm admitting I was a thief, dipshit. Don't go around calling people names.

Right about the same time I went to a rehab program in the wilderness, then spent 2 years at a therapeutic boarding school. The same time I stopped using drugs, the same time I got off depression meds and learned to deal with my sadness myself, and the same time I learned to deal with anxiety.

That is funny.  "Don't go around calling people names you dipshit."

I suggest a percentage fee for small transactions[lesser than 1000$] and limited fee, like 2$ for transactions greater than that.

It will work just like liberty reserve did.

Micro-transactions are a legit problem. I wish it could work, because it would solve a lot of problems, and the use would be monumental. I see so many places where instant payments of microscopic value would come in handy. But these bloating problems need to be solved.

You got my joke :) I worried no one would.

Why don't you guys read a bit before making like bitcoin can't do microtransactions?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244656.0
Mike Hearn implemented a protocol too.
I'm sure there are a dozen others...

If you are doing transactions less than a dollar or less than 50 cents then virtual/digital currencies are not for you. Better use physical cash.

BTC has decent fees imo.

$4...

wat the F is this thread.

BTC's problem is micro transactions.. $4 is not a micro transaction.. Newbie account eh.. u must be la trolling.

BTC will NOT be used as people think it will be, peercoin or dogecoin will end up bein the "spending" crypto.  BTC and LTC will be held and horded, this will be good for them.  They will be the better gold and silver, no paper gold shit, you cant pretend you have gold you don't...  it will be the PERFECT store of value.

The fact I can send $.01  with Doge for 1 doge is amazing.

I don't know what you mean? I paid $0.50 for something yesterday.

Bitcoin CAN do transactions for less than a penny, but that would spam the network. So true micro transactions are problematic at the moment, but there is little call for them anyway.

When a BTC becomes worth more, the fee will be adjusted. The Bitcoin protocol does not say the fee has to to be .0001, that's just what it is today.

That's true in order to double-spend a transaction that is confirmed in the blockchain, but you don't need hashing power to double-spend the $4 transaction that is being discussed. You could do it by having a copy of your wallet on a second mobile device, then have 2 accomplices each take a device and pay at 2 different coffee houses at approximately the same time.

Even that would fail if the receiving wallets are connected to closely-connected nodes in the Bitcoin network. In that case, the first transaction would propagate through the network and the 2nd one would be rejected as a duplicate.

Unless I don't understand the protocol. Did I get it right?

Bitcoin is mainly used for doing transactions of large sums of money and to avoid taxes. Even if you transact 50$ its a clear profit..as you are not loosing much fee.

I suggest to do transactions of $10 atleast, or it would be child's game.

Will you please give an example? (I mean one with names changed, of course.)