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Not a BK fan, but they have every right to do what is best for their shareholders...earn as much money as possible.  Also interesting, that Buffet is in on this deal.  Kind of makes him a hypocrite since he's always lecturing on higher taxes.  Let's see if Obama pulls out his pen and phone.

Burger King Dares Obama To Stop It From Fleeing To Canada

Burger King’s plan to scurry across the Canadian border to avoid U.S. taxes could be seen as the corporate equivalent of flipping President Barack Obama the bird.

The White House vowed earlier this month to use an executive order to curb tax inversions -- deals in which U.S. companies buy smaller foreign firms in countries with lower taxes, then renounce their U.S. corporate citizenship and re-incorporate in that country.

Still, Burger King said late Sunday night that it was in talks to merge with Tim Hortons, Canada’s popular bakery and coffee chain. The new, combined company would be headquartered in Canada.


   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/25/burger-king-obama_n_5709683.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

How about we just don't let them back in?

I have zero sympathy for companies who expect handouts to stay in the U.S. I say let them set up in the Bahamas or wherever, then tax the fuck out of them as foreign businesses. That seems way better than our current system of rewards for moving jobs overseas.

This is exactly why Canada reduced their corporate tax rate, not only to promote their own businesses for growth but to draw US businesses. If Obama and congress had a fricken brain they'd realize that reducing corp rates would allow the kind of growth Canada has seen and certainly stop the bleeding of US corps that flee the US for better tax rates that make them more competitive.

Let us stop for a moment of silence to contemplate the gigantic stimulus to business to remain here and to move here if we would adopt the Fair Tax and stop punishing people who dare to achieve.

Well done, you've just forced out 1000's of legitimate foreign businesses who might have otherwise thought about doing business in the U.S because of a few corporations dodging taxes, unless of course you're suggesting some kind of specific blacklist which would make a bit more sense.

Seriously though there are already companies that are refusing to do business with U.S citizens and boycotting them because of the regulations their governments have it's going to be even worse for the U.S if they make themselves unattractive as a tax option and deliberately target foreigners.

This is all bullshit and greed. Corporations in America HAVE recovered from the Bush era economic collapse. The only people still hurting are the working class and the poor, and that's neither because of the basic economy or because of US taxes - it's because of corporate greed.  You want to reduce US corporate taxes even more? Fine. I'd support that - IF in the same bill, tax penalties for US corporations who offshore and tariffs on imports from any country whose treatment of workers is even worse than ours are included.

Should have never bailed any of them out and let all the corporations go into bankruptcy.

Those assets they hold can be chopped into pieces and be sold off separately to create more healthy competition.

BK has closed around 300 stores during that great recovery you claim obama the savior initiated in America after the housing crash caused by congressional over regulation and forced mortgage scam. The idea that if you tax corps to death while regulation them out of business makes for a good economy is a leftie wet dream that isn't based in reality. Google Canada tax reduction to get a look at what it did for their country's economy, then see CA's corp tax increase to see what it did to their economy.  The evil greedy corps you lefties despise are leaving the country, that should make you happy. Besides, it doesn't matter how much the government raises taxes or how much it takes in each year they have never come in on budget, always overspend and always just borrow more money for whatever they want without regard for fiscal responsibility or how much they're screwing the tax payers.

No more whoppers for me.

Corporate citizens who flee this country should be ashamed of themselves.  And they get the benefits of being "citizens" from the Supreme Court.  At the very least, these "citizens" should not enjoy the rights of citizenship under Citizens United.

They make it  because of America and then they flip America the bird.  Now THIS is where shame should make its return, if anywhere.

It would be tricky of course. But there has to be some kind of disincentive. Without one I see no reason for most businesses to remain in the U.S.  Not that many companies pay anything close to the stated tax rate.

True that! What kind of citizen can make a fortune without paying taxes? Oh, and can't be sued as a citizen? A corporation.
I should inc. myself and live above the law!  ;D

They totally should reduce corporate tax rates to not only keep places like these from leaving but to also get corps to bring offshore money back home for investment purposes. Rand Paul has been advocating this since he's been in office but let's face it, it doesn't really matter to these corporations since there's always somewhere else to go or to stash your funds.

We could always threaten to kill their corporate leaders if they leave :P

Perhaps what you mean to say is, there has to be some kind of incentive for them to stay; one such incentive is to loosen up on the empire-level regulation and tax-rates for everyone, so people can actually breathe easy and do, well, business again.

There is one alternative, however, if nothing budges: the complete socialization of business.  Of all I've read on the subject, that has a 100% chance to turn out very badly for everyone involved; by very badly, I mean widespread cannibalism because everyone's starving and can't do a thing about it.

The reason why "don't let them back in" is not a valid disincentive is because, if they wanted to be in, they wouldn't be leaving in the first place; you may not have noticed, but America's not exactly on the road to the golden ages.  To further tax them even while they don't operate in America is like taxing a Swedish company because they might be an American company someday; if they're not American anymore, leave them alone.  If I was them, I'd liquidate and start fresh; it's reasons like that America was formed in the first place, taxation without representation and a fucked up banking system.

So many statists.. Where to begin? Oh well, enjoy the engineered decline. I know I am here in the UK.

I guess also, there would be a lot of new jobs created to "hide the decline."

lol...

Corporations are government entities, a completely artificial construct with arbitrary rules. Nobody gives half a shit about Burger King's corporate jobs, while the actual jobs are provided by franchisees, not franchisers who suck up all the profits - and nobody cares about BK's pissant lobbying money -- it's idiotic for them to try to "outwit" government rules. It's not like anyone thinks of BK as some type of principled, radical company, and it doesn't take more than a few neurons firing to realize they're just looking to suck as much money out of people as possible without regard to consequence for others.

It'd never happen even though the legal framework of the US has been thrown out the window with this "executive order" horseshit, but I'd be pleased enough to see the USG nationalize US BK franchises without compensation if BK goes through with this. Sell the food at-cost, raise its health standards, and disallow BK, TH, or any subsidiaries from ever opening a shop in the US again. Our government never gets offended enough to do something like that because they're soulless ostriches. :D

The best part about this "If you don't like it then leave" mentality everyone who is for this kind of system we have now is pretty soon everybody will and they'll take all their capital with them and soon they'll all be begging for us to come back to get the economy moving again since they have no one to tax :P I know I'm probably just going to fuck off to Japan if I ever earn enough that I break the tax threshold in my country, why stay here with the hyperinflated housing prices when I can get a detached house for half of what it costs here?

I read about this on another forum.  It's not the corporate tax but the US taxing oversea corporate income which is the issue here.  It's also just the head offices which only employ dozens or hundreds.

Corporate taxes are lower in Canada, do not tax oversea corporate earnings and white collar professionals are cheaper to hire in Canada.  An Accountant Controller working for a huge international company like BK in the United States can command like $300K in benefits but their Canadian equivalent will only receive like half of that.  Part of that has to do with the health insurance but also just the hiring competition in the US between all the large corporations for the few white collar professionals.  The end extent of this certain companies like Microsoft, IBM and Google sign agreements with each other to not "poach workers".


This is expected when signing NAFTA and the emergence of the digital age - American workers became too expensive to employ.  All the blue collar work went to illegal Mexicans or people in Mexico; all the white collar work is slowly migrating to Canada where educated white collar professionals are abundant and don't command wallstreet compensation.

How is UK compare to US? Last I heard, the financial center in London is leaving to Shanghai and Hong Kong.

When the world turn global, it shouldn't surprise anyone corporations will move to where the lowest tax rate is.

I'm happy BK is moving to Canada.
It's a scheme that's called competition. Corporations, and a few individuals like me, have changed country because of various advantages like lower taxes. The US has every right to lower its tax burden, or see all its largest corporations and wealthiest individuals move away. This is happening in Europe too, where thousands of French have left their country for Switzerland or the UK.

The advantages of being American are no longer exclusive to being American due to the permeation of American culture and capitalism into global society.   I can move to almost anywhere in the world and find a hamburger & coca cola, supermarkets with electronic doors, suburb homes, automobiles and liberal capitalism (although the political structure in some of these countries can be authoritarian).

What is the United States today?  Most of their major cities have fallen to urban decline and have aged infrastructure going back to the 1960s. 

In my opinion, 20 years ago a lot of companies were fleeing to the USA from Canada to save taxes
The fact that they are now fleeing to Canada to save Taxes from the United States says something about the corporate tax rate over there.
Interestingly enough bring it down and companies will leave raise it up and they will leave as well so its really never a laffer curve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

Anyways a Tim's fan myself when they sold the company to Wendys and came back intact that was great, I just hope they can do it again.

Maybe BK could learn something from Tim Hortons.  Tim Hortons has low price donuts (pretty good ones at that) due to volume of sales and ways they've cut down on costs (like flash freezing).

Problem is cheap fast food is only theoretical as the benchmark cost of a Big Mac is almost $5 in the United States.  If they can bring in $1 burgers that don't suck (and it's offered 365 days of the year) then I'm all for it.
 

The fact that corporations have to pay taxes on the income they earn worldwide makes them much less competitive then their global peers. A company based overseas is almost always rewarded for investing money in the US by expanding their US operations, however a US company will be taxes (punished) for bringing their foreign earned money back to the US and investing in the US economy.

A simple solution is slap a windfall tax for any corporation leaving the US to elsewhere for tax reason.

Can also introduce a tax for foreign corporation to do business in  the US.

Who needs burger king?

I can make much better food while I'm sleepwalking by pure chance. They want to go? I don't care!

there should be no corporate tax.
there wasn't one for 140 years and the country flourished.
the less money the useless government gets the more there is for private enterprise.

I think companies should pay something for the government services and resources they consume. I think 35% is a bit excessive though. And having to pay taxes on money earned overseas even though a company's overseas production/earnings did not consume any domestic resources is just crazy.

Well corporations and people are voting with their feet, citizenship renunciations are up, and countries and people are pissed at FATCA which is a tool of US financial imperialism. Are you going to penalize them for that? And I'll politely argue that the "they make it because of America" is something that will fade in coming years, as countries build middle classes the monopsony America has on finished goods will fade, and it will be for the better of free market, the world, and America.

I believe that BK is owned by a brazillian company. So they have nothing to be patriotic about anyway!

I could have lived with this deal had they made it a trade for Bieber.

Companies like this should lose all benefit and deduction operating in US.

Should they encounter security issue abroad, they should not expect any assistance from the government.

I'm running into terminology confusion. Wikipedia lists Burger King's parent company as Burger King Holdings, an American company. It also says Burger King is majority-owned by a "Brazilian" company, 3G Capital, which is HQ'd in NYC. How can a company have a minority parent? If it has a parent, doesn't that necessarily imply it's a subsidiary?

Companies are getting increasingly greedy and looking for ways to avoid tax.  If the general public get locked up for it, so should big companies.  Clearly they're going to look for the best ways to make as much money as possible, but at least be reasonable and somewhat ethical with it.

Also, I still don't get the appeal of Tim Horton's at all.  If I want junk food I'll eat junk food, not junk food pretending it's healthy.

I agree with a lot of this but think things like educated work force, rule of law and infrastructure are as important as comforts.  The sad thing is it is not only US corporations who are leaving but individual US citizens are renouncing their citizenship at record rates.  While the number is still small, these are often very educated and talented people.

Freedom is good, and I can't really blame people and corporations for wanting to minimize their tax bills or regulatory hassles.

DooMAD, LoL, I think the US is overrun with junk food in health food drag!

As I said - if they want to leave, let them - but take all their stores with them, and make room for others who want to be here. You think American taxes suck so you want to go to another country, good - go. Just don't expect to make your profits here while you pay your taxes there. I know that's not going to happen - because the law is fouled up and supports this kind of greed. But it should be that way.

Yeah, you don't work for BK so why should you care how many thousands of people get laid off permanently and lose their income, their benefits and their future. Fuck em right ? How about all the Tim Hortons in the US, they're Canadian owned, should we throw them out too? Maybe if we tax the corps enough and bully them enough we can get rid of the majority of corps and they can be replaced with small mom and pop companies that can afford the start up costs in the US that make it almost impossible to start a business. Your hatred will drive corps out and jobs out dd and drive the country broke, all out of greed and hatred for a foolish agenda that says if you tax the crap out of corps all of Americas problems will be solved.

If BK goes to Canada, and takes all their stores with them, someone else will start a business here to fill the void.  My problem with them and companies like them is that they want all the benefits of doing business in the US and none of the responsibilities.

Consumer can boycott their service for not paying their fair-share of taxes.

By the way, as much as you think those corps pay taxes out of the ceo pay or hope they have enough profits at the end of the year to pay them, the truth is they roll the cost of taxes into the price you pay for goods and services so the higher the taxes the more you pay out of your pocket. Its your money those corps use to pay the feds, idiot.
And which is more profitable for the government, paying unemployment benefits to a worker that no longer pays income taxes or lowering corp taxes to keep jobs in the US?

And my problem with people like you is that you sit there and pretend to give a shit about "all those workers" and yet, you absolutely oppose them getting a living wage.  You aren't fooling anyone. All you do is lick the boots of corporate masters.

Yeah, sure, just like all the manufacturing jobs that went to mexico and china were replaced by other manufacturing jobs. Keep telling yourself that pretty lie  and keep refusing to learn from history past and present that proves raising taxes drives jobs out of the country and reducing taxes brings them back.

you can't understand the difference between manufacturing jobs and consumer retail jobs. If Burger King went away, there would still be a market for burgers.  Existing chains would expand and perhaps another new one would  initiate.  The market is here. There's a reason they're only talking about moving their corporate HQ and not their stores, you twit.

Second, like I said, you're a hypocrite and a phony with your idiot claim that I didn't care about the people who would lose their jobs if Burger King closed all their stores when you are one of the voices here who have clearly and loudly expressed your disgust for those workers when they ask for a living wage.  I have no "messiah", you twit, and bringing that silliness up is just another defense mechanism for you - a knee-jerk insult because you're too fucking stupid to come up with an actual reasoned argument.

The government job is safe so what do you care how many thousands lose theirs, if that's what it takes to support your messiah and promote your hatred for greedy corps you'll do it no matter how stupid you have to make yourself.

instead of creating a business friendly tax system - which while collecting less taxes in the short run, will actually bring in more taxes in the long run in other tax bases.... businesses will employ more people who pay taxes... they will buy more products which will bring in more taxes... businesses will grow which brings in more real estate taxes.... instead the government being greedy and taxing businesses and people to death and then spending even more than they bring in....

I have said it a thousand times. I don't oppose profit in the least. I think it's what makes the economy go. I don't hate corporations in general - there are still SOME corporations which DO treat workers well and respect the consumers.

What I hate is pure greed - capitalists and corporations which put MORE profit ahead of workers and consumers when they are doing very well already - as Burger King IS. Now, unless you can demonstrate that you even have a little understanding of what's actually happening rather than just spitting venom at those who dare to disagree with you, we're done here.

Out of pure curiosity.. where do you guys live?

Btw , it is pure coincidence that

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=61832;sa=showPosts;start=1680
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=78972;sa=showPosts;start=1180

you were both doing the same thing at the start then shifted to more "consistent" posts  at the same time your sig changed ?

Can't hold myself at thinking about a double personality  rampage going here.

I am american ,living in UK,and i think umair127 is american............you have a problem with my post or umair127 posts?

Liberals openly and enthusiastically support taxing and regulating the hell out of 'evil' corporations, and then gasp in outraged astonishment when those same corporations finally throw up their hands and move to friendlier countries. 
Then liberals wonder why conservatives think liberals are so stupid.

lol......yeah sana8410 is my brother from another mother....lol....so just because we are on the same campaing we are suspicious?i thouhgt this is a free chat ....yeah i do talk alot with sana,he is smart....if you want you can join us.....

Told you already , you're looking to me as a guy with split personality.
Also pretty weird schedule you have there.. both of you.

And about your posts , no problem with them but again they resemble each other so much.
Are you sure you guys aren't brothers?

Again, liberals openly and enthusiastically support taxing and regulating the hell out of 'evil' corporations, and then gasp in outraged astonishment when those same corporations finally throw up their hands and move to friendlier countries.

Your not my brother....i have 2 sisters....where are you from?

Florida....ask you father if he ever went here and meet my mother..... ;D

My family lives in New York.

Where are you from ?

Romania , and looking at timetables....
I find it even more interesting that you have the same posting hours even while split by a 5 hours timezone  =)))))))
Sure you aren't the other guy ?


ps. do me and the rest of guys reading topics where you (or both) post your opinions a favor.. stop making those two miles long quotes :) If i had a mouse he would be in pain but right now it's my finger who is digging trenches in my tablet :)

I can assure you that i am i and i am not umair127...if i was a woman i would tought you have a crush on me,since you check me ,you even check what time i post.Now i am intrested in you  ;D lest see what time you start posting and if you have "a brother "here too.
hmmmm....so you or you are the other guys here too?

So sana8410,my friend, we go back to our Burger King talk or we have to show our social security to niothor ?Btw ,you english is very good for a romanian guy,niothor.

What we need to do if they do leave this country is to do a total boycott so they go broke.  Perhaps if we would do that to each business that moves their jobs overseas then we can have the tax dollars needed to rebuild our country that made this corporation rich.  We need the people in this country to stand up and tell corporate America that we will no longer put up with their bullshit.

  Its simple, send them a message if they won't pay the taxes they owe to the American people then the American people should respond by not buying anything from them.   We know the government won't do anything to help as long as the tea party holds sway.

Here's another thing - the right keep talking about the evil President Obama and his horrible taxes on corporations. Here is the chart of corporate tax rates for America through 2013. Look at the corporate tax rates during boom times for America, and look at what they are today. these claims that this President is taxing corporations out of business are pure bullshit. The last time corporate tax rates were as low as they are now was in the immediate aftermath of WWII.

I realize high taxes are not an issue for you, but some of us pay through the nose, and we're tired of it.  Same for corporations where the US has the highest tax rate in the world.   Like I said...corporations are in business to make a profit for their shareholders.   I realize that's a concept lost on someone like you who worked for a government entity.

The FACTS are that corporate taxes are at the lowest levels since WWII, and corporate profits have already recovered even from the economic collapse of 2008.

As for Burger King's Canada connection, I read more about it. They're doing this by purchasing Tim Horton's.  When I visited Canada a couple of years ago, I stopped several times in Tim Horton's stores. They're like our Dunkin Donuts. I just hope for Canada's sake that Burger King doesn't ruin them.

Facts are always helpful. Here are some useful facts:

Burger King pays an effective tax rate of 27% in the US due to the plethora of tax loopholes.
Canada has a corporate tax rate of 26%, hardly a huge savings there.
Profitable corporations in the US pay an average tax rate of 13%, making the top rate more unreal than real.
Corporate revenues constitute a smaller percentage of federal revenues than any time in the last 50 years today. So much for the regressive Obama rates.
US corporate profits are at record highs as are mergers funded by high profits. Our corporations have never had it better.

You are not making a fair comparison. You are comparing the top Canadian rate to the effective US rate that Burger King pays. Once you factor in the tax "loopholes" then they would pay a much lower effective rate. Also you need to remember that the US will charge tax on income regardless of where the income is earned while every other developed nation will charge tax on only income earned in that country.

Corporate taxes have really not changed meaningfully in a very long time. The tax code has only gotten more complicated. You also have the issue that the US has the highest marginal tax rate in the modern world and is the only country that taxes worldwide profits.

It's all just a big show.  BK is huffy puffy because some other company or industry is getting more tax breaks.  Apparently their lobbyists didn't get a good roll on their D20.

Ultimately the loser is the American tax payer.  The corporate tax rate is indeed too high in this country - good thing only the honest smaller companies pay it  ::)

Until the tax code is shredded and all the incentives, "loopholes" (also known as legal bribery) and accounting tricks are removed the middle class will suck an egg while the politicians and large corporations get away with legal embezzlement.

Will it change - probably not since the ones with the quill are being paid by the ones they're supposed to regulate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11065125/US-taxes-are-far-too-high-no-wonder-companies-are-fleeing.html

The thing about US corporate taxes is that lots of multinationals get away with paying an effective rate of just a few percent. Their accounts are saving them billions because of loopholes left in poorly thought out law and policy. The corporations are just going act as close to rational as they can, you can't blame them. Blame the poorly designed system.

I have yet to understand why BK is moving to Canada. They could move to an even more exotic country, and forget everything about corporate tax. The US? BK is a world-wide business. I've seen their restaurants in many countries. I wonder how much of their income comes from the US. If it's less than half, they have no obligation at all towards that country.

It is not easy to simply move their legal residence to another country. In the US, in order to do so, the company needs to acquire (or be acquired by) a company that resides in the country their legal residence is being moved to, and the ownership of the newly formed company needs to have a certain percentage of shareholders from the foreign company.

It is not a poorly designed system- it achieves everything that government wants it to- fleece the sheep and fatten the wolves then point out how all these chubby wolves are destroying their country!

I agree that corporations are acting in their best interest. Though you cannot blame the system, governments hate tax havens (because they represent competition). A global control grid that taken money from the only people actually providing something (corrupt or not) will contract this mess even faster.

The 'system' will never be fixed because there are too many invested parties for real change to occur.

No big deal. In Turks and Caicos, lawyers always have ready-made companies under their arm. A few guys walk into their office, and they leave with a new company, sharing ownership between them. Some paper work needed to transfer the shares, and it's a done deal. It's funny some people criticizes BK, Apple or Google are much more aggressive in theirs ways to avoid tax.

Don't forget to bring your towel ! ::)

That blood smoke coming off your abused animal carcass is getting you (and your kids) HIGH ! :o

I'll bet you're soo high you have noo idea what is going on ! :P

Ha. Who cares if BK leaves the US? I'm more concerned that BK will ruin Tim Horton's.

IF this thing goes through, hopefully they keep BK and Tim Horton's separate operations that are just owned under the same roof. There's no need for the King to dip his ugly face in our good coffee and donuts.

Tim Horton (the hockey player) deserves better.

It's because US politicians are looking for votes and they can get votes by blaming corporations for the reasons there aren't enough tax dollars to pay for things the voters want. Collusion is a lot easier in a small country like T&C.