Bitcoin Forum

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/12/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS371331303320120412

this is starting to smell like 1992.

It's about time that douchebag got arrested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NRown_Kkzk

"this is being directed by the Department of Justice"

Are we making guesses as to what will happen?  My guess is they will take a year or so to get to court and then he will be acquitted.

He won't be acquitted. It depends for how long he is going to jail for. Also they charged him with 2nd degree, not voluntary manslaughter.

Murder in the second degree, under Florida law, refers to a killing carried out without premeditation but with “a depraved mind regardless of human life.”

If the person screaming for mercy in the 911 call was the boy, surely the charge would be murder in the first degree?  My guess is based on the prosecutor believing that the person calling out was Zimmerman.  That makes proving "a depraved mind regardless of human life" very difficult.

The WaPo says much the same but of course they too are only guessing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_print.html

I guess we have 12 months to wait before we find out.

In general 1st degree murders are premeditated ones, i.e. the person planned days in advance. It doen't apply at all here.

I thought it they would go for manslaughter, but they chose a tougher one. Most likely they will try prove that it was a fight with both side participating in it. Wild guess - they would make an analogy of a bar fight, both sides are guilty of fighting. Since Zimmerman killed his opponent, it's a 2nd degree murder.

Remember if some a retard on a street comes to me and starts asking me questions, I am legally within my rights to tell him go fuck himself. Zimmerman, I assume, got pissed about that and got in scuffle, by trying to hold Martin which resulted in punches traded and Zimmerman shooting Martin.

^^^ Just a bar fight, with one idiot having a gun.

Prosecutors just need to prove that Zimmerman challenged Martin (verbally), it doesn't really matter beyond that point.

Doesn't the "stand your ground" law mean the exact opposite of that?  If Zimmerman felt threatened, wasn't he entitled to kill? 

I think the fact that Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon (and thus created the situation which lead to the shooting) changes the interpretation somewhat, but I'm no lawyer.

No. Deadly forced is only authorized when the person must prevent great bodily harm.

While above isn't clearly defined, it usually means a lost of a limb or imminent death. Broken nose doesn't count as great bodily harm.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html

...or was it Trayvon acting suspiciously that created the situation which lead to the shooting?  So many questions...

This is irrelevant. Zimmerman can only claim that he was walking around and minding his business when Martin attacked him. That's his only defense, anything else will convict him.

The law does not say Zimmerman has to mind his own business.  Zimmerman just can't be involved in a criminal act while claiming self defense.  I think the special prosecutor just passed the buck to the trial judge.  If the trial judge doesn't have any balls then they will pass the buck to the jury.

If everything Zimmerman claims is true then he will be suffering when the civil lawsuit bankrupts him for life and the guilt for killing a 17 year old boy.  If he did kill Zimmerman not out of self defense but because of an emotional response of fear or anger then he will still lose the civil lawsuit.

My point is, not everyone has to go to jail for justice to occur.  Maybe after this people will mind their own business.  Zimmerman's problem is that he acted like the police too much.  He probably talked to them a lot after the shooting that could be used against thim.

Stand your ground actually would have protected Trayvon in this case had he killed Zimmerman.  It does not in any way protect the aggressor.  The law is reasonably clear, unlike the prosecutor in Florida.

While one can argue how it sounds to the public but the charge should have been manslaughter.  I felt Trayvon was murdered, but the EVIDENCE does not support that.  The evidence supports manslaughter.  The prosecution has a pretty big shot of screwing it up and having Zimmerman being found not guilty with the murder charge.  A manslaughter charge and conviction would have served to dissuade others from repeating the same acts.

I quoted the law, but here are the relevant parts. If he didn't mind his business, he's an aggressor. In any case it's up to Zimmerman to prove his innocence - that's how self defense cases work.


776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

Ah, but Trayvon was the original instigator in this matter, and he got what was coming to him.  He went looking for a fight and found one he couldn't handle, and died because of his own actions. No amount of crying, or "I could have been him 20 years ago" bullshit is going to change the facts of this matter. Zimmerman acted in self-defense after a premeditated assault, and the world has lost one more wanna-be gangbanger. Boo fucking hoo.

Huh.

Zimmerman was on public property. He was a neighborhood-watchmen. He wasn't hurting nobody (not even Trayvon) by watching him. If Trayvon didn't like it, he could simply leave.

No altercation is justified.

If it is true that Trayvon tried to grab Zimmerman's gun, then the results (the fatality) are justified.

FTFY

It all comes down the the screams for help.  If it was Trayvon, I am baffled as to how Zimmerman isn't facing a murder 1 charge.  If it was Zimmerman, why is he facing any charge at all?

Interesting. Have you been interviewed as a witness? When do you testify?

If not, you're full of shit man, and you whine like a little punk ass bitch white boy, which you undoubtedly are.

Not so simple when a crazed racist is following you.

"When walking in open territory, bother no one". Right Atlas?

Zimmerman needed to be in danger of immediate death or great harm to be justified to shoot a person. He could just point gun and say don't move.

I've dealt with crazed racists. Stupid but not dangerous. Beliefs do not make someone a threat. Only actions do.

Thoughts being a crime -- that's a scary precedent. It's why I don't believe in "hate crimes". A crime is a crime. A thought is a thought.

We should never prosecute somebody for their beliefs even if they are racist.

If somebody tries to take my gun, I just shoot. I will not be shot with my own gun.

You don't hold it up and let him wrestle you for it.

Now, this is assuming the claim of Trayvon trying to take his weapon is true.

I sent $50 to Zimmerman via http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com after watching this peter schiff vid about it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enQIRVmFPBc

He needs to accept Bitcoin.

Interesting standard you have for participation in the discussion, but completely typical of the knee-jerk neo-racism of the Black community in the US currently. If any criminal is Black, then he couldn't possibly be guilty, and if any White person speaks out against an obvious racially motivated hate-movement, like the lynching that Obama, the New Black Panthers, Sharpton, Jackson and the rest of the race-card pimps are crying for, they must be wrong and full of shit.

Too bad Dutchie- indeed I am White, but not quite the shit-filled punk-ass bitch you want to think I am. I speak out against racism of any kind, and in this case your boy Trayvon was wrong. He opened up a can of worms that he wasn't fully prepared to deal with, and got himself killed with his pseudo-macho gang-banger wanna-be antics. Zimmerman acted out the responsibility that he had taken on as a neighborhood watch member, and when assaulted, protected himself. Having the instant mob vigilantism of racist hate-mongers like Sharpton and Jackson appear to inflame the easily led, and the comments of Obama and the Hollywood Left has done nothing but pour gasoline on a very bad situation.

But, your champions won't be happy until there is full on race war in the US- it's part of the Stalinist/Alinsky agenda that Obama is acting as a puppet for. Look for a lot more Trayvons and Zimmermans in the coming months as we get ready for another crooked election season, influenced by the agit-prop of Sauros and the Leftist powerbrokers who hold the leashes of Obama and his kind. With any kind of consistency we can raze Detroit, Watts, Cincinnati and Crown Heights all over again so you and your fellow Black racists can make your political statements through murder and mayhem.

Wtf? I never said anything about thoughtcrime, just that he can't "simply leave" when someone is following him. Why did Zimmerman follow? Because he's a crazed racist.

Making stuff up to prove your point is not clever.  You were not there; you don't know what happened; don't act like you do.

The racist thing is just made up by the media... don't people know this info by now?

Some people LOVE being outraged.  I often wonder are they really upset or are they hoping that acting upset gets them better publicity.

I do not think this case is about race.  It is about manslaughter. 

How you think Trayvon opened up a can of worms I do not understand.  Trayvon was stalked, harassed and when he (possibly) tried to stand his ground (as was HIS legal right in Florida) he was shot.  He also may have just been plain murdered but we just don't know. 

With all of the talk on this board about non-aggression and staying out of the business of others Zimmerman runs against everything most libertarians believe in.  He denied Trayvon the right to walk down the street. 

You don't know shit from shinola, boy, I'm multi-racial, if you saw me you could mistake me for Henry Rollins. Why did you assume I was a "black racist"? ROTFLMFAO, boy, you're thinner than piss on a hot rock and your weakness of mind and character is an open book for all to read.

Sometime I should tell you about the time I didn't get charged with 2nd degree murder for using a firearm in self defense, and I'm not talking about all the targets I connected with when I was in Vietnam.

Your shit is childish and tells more about your inner fears and insecurity than anything else. Perhaps I should start a thread on the subject of "Why Does Bitcoin Attract So Many Scared Little Closet Case¹ Weenie Boys" in your honor.


1. The use of "closet case" above is the older meaning referring to retarded children who are a family embarrassment and are kept out of sight "in the closet".

Apparently the only acceptable point of view for ANYBODY who wasn't there is that this is an outrage against humanity, and that the poor defenseless child was gunned down in cold blood.

Whatever. Zimmerman will walk free when this travesty is done, and Trayvon will still be dead. Guess somebody made a real stupid mistake that day, and only one of the two principals involved will be reflecting on his choice in this mortal coil. Lex loci.

And Dutch? Sure I do... one is shoe polish. I also expect I would have supported your point of view if your non-charges were similar to these.

Whatever.

Rest assured that I would find your support as useless as your other thoughts. If a closet case like you leapt to my defence I would have very much enjoyed smacking the shit out of your girly ass for putting me at the risk of being associated with your childish bullshit.

Fuck you and the chihuahua that sired you, you're a waste of deserving people's oxygen and so typical of the most blank generation the western world has ever seen ;D

Dutchie- if passive aggressive pinheads like you are the supporters of Trayvon, he's probably glad he's dead sitting there in Hell. 'Cause life here amongst the living sure would have sucked with friends like you.

Um, most people think it was an unfortunate incident that the police mishandled.  A child with valid ID in his pocket was tagged as a John Doe.  3 days later his family identified him and were told the man who shot him was never even arrested.  Naturally they were outraged.

Now Zimmerman has been arrested, the family say they are happy to let the law take its course.  They know Zimmerman will walk...but at least their child's death will be officially investigated.

uhhg.  Poor Zimmerman.  Poor Trayvon.  Poor public.  Blah blah.

I hate when the racial fire is stoked.  Reminds me of good old witch hunts.  Burn him, burn him!  :D

Couple of interesting points.  One factual, one that must now be proven in court.

1.  After an incident where a white police lieutenant's son knocked out a black homeless man Mr. George Zimmerman, apparently a strong community activist, visited the black community to hand out flyers to raise awareness of the incident in attempt to effect a response from the black community.

IMO.  This would be a VERY strange thing for a 'crazed racist' to do.  lol.  But whatever.  Get your pitchforks.  Start the bonfire.  We've got a racist to burn. :P

2.  Based on the 911 tape and Zimmerman's statement Mr. Trayvon Martin ran away, quite possibly reaching his domicile, then returned to the general area where he and Zimmerman last had visual contact. 

WTF?  Another 'crazed racist' running another black kid down only to blow their brains out.  Yeah...yeah, right.


Based on all of this 'outrage' I worry that black members of this case's jury will have a hard time being objective and just.

Do you have a proper source for that?

So lets say Trayvon was very aggressive, the neighborhood thief, fast, muscular and trying to get his gun - SO WHAT?

Why didn't Zimmerman say "freeze"?
Why didn't he shoot Trayvon in the legs, arms, shoulder or even lower body?

Zimmerman is a killer and he has the violent history and social dysfunctionality to back that theory up plenty.

If you still support him you are a crazy and evil racist m*therf*cker.

Wow - what is about this case that makes people feel compelled to make stuff up to prove their point?  Is waiting until the true facts are laid out in court really so painful?

BTW, we can say motherfucker all day long here.  No need for the cute little st*rs.

Because if you pull a gun on somebody you are going for the largest body mass not trying to wing them. I think they teach that in police training.

Bingo! Shooting in the legs or arms is a myth, you only see that in Hollywood movies. Police are trained to always to shoot the larger body mass, because you don't want to miss. It's too easy to miss a leg or an arm and shoot innocent bystanders. It happened in Montreal 2 years ago when the police shot a guy attacking them with a knife. One bullet missed, and killed an innocent citizen going to work on a bike 2 blocks farther.

You shoot with a gun to kill, not to hurt or disarm.

Sadly, this.  Would be great if guns could be used non-lethally, but that is just Hollywood.  Not even tasers are called "non-lethal" anymore; they are "less-lethal" because people can still die.

If you go into a 'Biker' bar spouting off about how they are 'pu55ies', Do you deserve to die?

No, but you probably will. This is the lesson.

The Gun debate is funny. Liberals usually don't want them. Conservatives do. I hunt, so I am biased.

The Irony is, I would be fine with no guns being in the 'World'. Then it will go back to the strongest and survival of the fittest. The weak will have no defense. How do you rate yourself?

This quote: "god made man but samuel colt made them equal" has truth in it.

This Zimmerman case was politicized. By default, he should at the minimum not be charged until it isn't a political issue.

Would be better if guns were not in the hands of crazies but hey, I'm certainly not going to argue the NRA-sponsored 2nd amendment.  ;D

Yes. True. It would be much better if Zimmerman didn't have a gun at all.

He should have been charged fairly quickly (in my opinion with manslaughter) but now of course it is highly political.

Apparently someone has been able to instill "Zimmerman, crazed racist" into the minds of the people who get riled up without knowing what they are talking about. I would love to see how this was accomplished. Google somehow sucks for this though.

NBC with the false report that he made racist comments in the 911 call.

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/nbc-fires-producer-of-misleading-zimmerman-tape/

Is that the source of "crazed" as well?

http://www.google.com/trends/viz?q=crazed&date=all&geo=all&graph=weekly_img&sort=0&sa=N

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=crazed&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Google trends for "crazed". Look at that.

Second Amendment actually was "sponsored" by the Original Framers: here's the whole collection so you can list all of the ext4remist groups that frighten you-


    First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[57]

    Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.

    No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

    Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

    Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.

    In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

    Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Well, even if my comment was partly a friendly joke toward you guys, I'm serious that I'm not going to argue about guns. We have each other complete opposite point of view on that matter and that's probably why we don't live in the same country.

I know US people defend strongly their 2nd amendment, and as much I disagree with that amendment, I'll always respect people that defend their fundamentals rights. But my incomprehension live in the idea that, I find virus, bacteria or cancer as much dangerous as wild animals or criminals. You have the means to defend yourself against big things, but not against small things.

Also, reading the 4th amendment, I don't understand why you don't defend it against the TSA? What's the point of having a gun if you can't protect your own body against TSA agents?

Anyway, it's only the point of view of an outsider that doesn't understand what's happening down there.

According to court records George Zimmerman is the son of retired Supreme Court Magistrate Judge Robert J Zimmerman, his mother Gladys Zimmerman is a court clerk....He has three closed arrests 7/18/05 for resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer ........8/9/05 for domestic violence..... And again on 8/10/05 domestic violence

So lets dismiss him as a crazed racist then? What is your point?

Also NBC had that info when they edited the 911 tapes. That is why it's OK. We should continue to trust NBC, they adjust the facts to better reflect reality.

I was just wondering what priors the deceased guy had. If trayvon had no convictions for violence it says something about the situation.

Priors for either shouldn't matter. The whole key is did Zimmerman adhere to FL's stand your ground or self defense laws in Florida. Zimmerman turned out to be hispanic. My limited prediction technique of gazing into fire tells me that the press will die down around the case.

As far as NBC, well guess they couldn't get rid of those stripes.

Yeah lets always forget and ignore the past as soon as it is so.

Totally not idiotic.

I would also love to have child rapists living in my neighborhood and hold no suspicions against them because I'm sure their past actions have ZERO bearing on their future actions!

/Sarcasm


Trayvon - Minor criminal record with pot... I have known college kids who liked pot UHHHH
Zimmerman - Multiple spots on criminal record of violence no less.

This IS a race job, but not against Zimmerman.


As for "guns can only kill" that's bullshit:
1. Shoot at a downward angle and you wont hit bystanders.
2. Miss the legs and he will still be scared and freeze or run.
3. Miss the legs shoot until you hit.

I have no surprise that american cops are trained to kill civilians, whats your argument? That that's okay?

Don't tell me the gun wouldn't have scared him enough for self defense.


Guns don't make us equal, what a load of propaganda, it just makes the IDIOTS with rage fits more powerful.
Normal decent people usually don't carry guns around as they are not insane and DON'T want to kill people.

Anyway fuck you all you make me sick. I'm out.

Godspeed. You are now a manipulation target.

You're good at making orthogonal and pedantic arguments. Why is it that every time someone wants to stop an argument or quit people from making points they bring Child rapists and CP into it from no where. Pretty soon people will just be accused of it and voila, suspicion will over-ride facts and truth to give way to rumors and gossip. Assumptions often lead you where you want to go. Now everyone is aware of where you want to go.

Have all the suspicions you want, but WTF does Child Rapists have to do with this discussion.

If you don't want them in your neighborhood and don't like them because of your suspicions, go shoot them. But wait... can't do that. So change the Law for to Life Imprisonment w/o parole and then pay for it.

I am seeing much hypocracy from some taking Martins side in this case.

Zimmerman has absolutely no convictions for those listed arrests that I know of.

This is pretty much split down conservative and liberal lines. Most liberals are not the cops best friends or advocates, so unless we can all admit that cops make bad decisions and mistakes and that those records of prior arrest (without convictions) mean absolutely nothing (or very little), then we will have to admit that cops dont make mistakes and all of Zimmermans arrests are the same as if he were convicted. I dont really see where you can have it both ways.

After pushing ignore on 3/4 of the users here I look forward to a happy time on this forum with other rational human beings.

What an useful thread this became.

What you are looking for is hitting ignore on 99.9999% of users. Then you will be happy.

Dude,

 If you can't rationally debate and discuss opposing views with out hiding from them, then you are part of the problem not the solution.

The prosecutor has ruled that out when she opted not to charge with a hate crime.

You should probably ignore me too as I also thought you're posts were idiotic.

You're welcome.

This is crazy, "point a gun and say don't move".  A gun is used to stop a behavior not to threaten a person.  You obviously have never used a gun before and only seen their use on TV.  When police pull a gun on someone they do 2 things.  1. shoot for the center mass (the chest) or 2. wait for the man in stripes to give the signal to shoot for center mass.  They aim for the chest because the shooter is more likely to hit the target.

Zimmerman had his concealed handgun license so he went through the training.  Everyone going through those classes know that if you actually do use your self defense weapon then you will need to hire a lawyer.  The only reason I see that Zimmerman is actually in jail is because of the mob pressure and the special prosecutor charging him anyway knowing the state will lose the case or because Zimmerman said something to the police before his lawyer arrived to shut him up.

At least this case will give an interesting precedent to the case law on "stand-your-ground" laws in Florida.  I am sure glad to be living in Texas.  We already had to deal with this anti-self defense crap where people think the individual does not have a right to defend their own lives.  We also had a case where someone was defending themselves but a stray bullet killed a bystander.  The shooter is spending the rest of their life in prison.  Florida is the birthplace of the concealed handgun movement and I hope this case does not take that away.

In the link see the New Black Panther mob be chased out by the pro-self defense mob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ5WWzJ4VR8&feature=related
(See 1:38 for bouncing fun)

Better Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEZ9s0ZBAu8&feature=related

Zimmerman and Horn, who is referred to in the video, did stupid things that got media and legal attention toward them.  They should have just minded their own business.  Protect yourself and your family but for other people let them take care of themselves.


I don't believe he has those convictions either, if he had then the FBI criminal report would have pulled those records when his fingerprints were sent in for his Florida concealed handgun license.

Google.  Take your pick of articles.

Unlike you I was trained to use guns in my high school. In college I was trained to use anti air defenses, just a normal education system in a second world country.

And yes, on a patrol we weren't authorized to use our AKs. Stand or I fire, then shoot in the air few times, then shoot legs at best. So your arguments are silly.

If Zimmerman is innocent he will be cleared in court.

Vampire- all of your education aside- if you are confronted by a potentially drugged out gang-banger assaulting you for the benefit of looking macho with his group of friends egging him on, shooting multiple times at the legs is not the most prudent course of action to stop the attacker. Center of mass. The biggest possible target area for the most effective use of force to stop the attacker. That's the way to stop the assault and defend yourself.

In air defense school I am quite sure they did not teach you to shoot at the cables that controlled the wing flaps in order to disable the plane, I suspect they taught you to shoot at the biggest part of the plane you could see so that you could hit it and stop the attack on your homeland.

You are the first person I have seen saying that Martin "ran away, quite possibly reaching his domicile, then returned to the general area where he and Zimmerman last had visual contact."

In other words, you made it up.  

The only reason this blew up, and Zimmerman is being charged is because the media made it a race thing.

Kind of foolhardy to say he shouldn't have been charged, it should be sorted out by people with access to all the facts (courts). Only thing we know is what the press wants to tell us, and they want to sell papers.

Exactly Zimmerman had to be charged, let the courts decide.

I do understand that, I guess what I really meant had to do with how this is getting national if not international coverage, when it is just a shooting. It happens all the time near here, and you barely hear about it in the news.

The only witness of the case says that Zimmerman was being beaten by Trayvon.

There is no evidence of wrong-doing. All signs point to rational self-defense. Zimmerman should not be arrested. The prosecutor has no case.

Although, Zimmerman and his lawyer prefers the custody of jail at this time.

The 911 call with someone screaming for mercy and help is still there.  Shooting someone who is begging to be spared is not self-defence.  So if it was the child screaming, the prosecutor has a very strong case.  

If it was Zimmerman, then there shouldn't be a case against Zimmerman.

It is indeed self-defense if Trayvon was a threat beforehand. Assault and attempting to cease a weapon warrants a gun shot. The threat had to be eliminated.

Also, Trayvon was no child at the time of the shooting. He was a built, mature young man.

Its rare for an unarmed 17 year old to be killed and the shooter not get arrested.  Even though Trayvon had ID on him, he was tagged as a John Doe and his family found him 3 days later.  The shooter may well have been acting in self-defence but the police have no excuse for the way the case was handled.

The law on self-defence does not allow you to say "This person was a thread 5 minutes ago so I will kill him now." 

A 17 year old is a child.  Too young to buy a beer.

The threat could have been eliminated by not chasing.  That whole chase thing is what makes Zimmerman guilty.  He chased someone who he had no previous interaction with.  Trayvon did not steal or injure from Zimmerman to warrant being chased. 

If Zimmerman is not guilty, then it is ok to chase anyone in your neighborhood out.  Even people who live there.  Who did nothing. 

Do you want someone following you, chasing you around your own neighborhood?

It is not a crime for somebody to follow me.

It is not a crime for my assailant to shoot me once I start assaulting them and try to take their weapon.

Walk through downtown detroit and tell me about 'children.'

Why do you think gangs use 'children' to deal drugs. Hell, the gangs for the most part are children.

But you are correct, a 17 year old is to young to buy a beer. He, however, isn't to young to rob the convenient store to get a beer and kill the clerk for it.

Stalking is a crime.

You are fucking idiot. Only soviet union lost over 25 million people in WW2, across the globe the number is around 70 million.

Fucking white trash retard.

Can we remove emotions and preconceptions here please. It dilutes the argument.

I try to look at the whole chess board and think a few moves ahead. Just looking at the pawns doesn't give a good picture of what is going on in the game.

Can we agree that there is a reason that this particular case out of the thousands that happen in the U.S. became National news in the first place?

Then lets look at what the reasons behind it becoming National News are.

My belief is that, in some part due to NBC, there was a 'white' guy that had apparently said 'racists' things, shot a 'black' kid in Florida during an election year.

As it turns out however, the 'white' guy is 'hispanic', the 'racists' things that were supposedly said were not said.

So now you have a non-racist 'Hispanic' guy that shot a black kid. The 'sad' part is that a single case was used for a political goal. But, it is not unexpected. If I was 'black' I would be offended that this case took precedence over a black baby in Michigan getting shot by a black guy with an AK supposedly and barely any attention was payed to that case. But again this is not unpredictable.

Yes racism is being used, but it is being used in a disgusting manner. People are 'cherry' picking events for other purposes other than the people and communities involved concerns. They are using a chart off of the X-axis. Again, not unexpected.

See, people are starting to realize it and see through the haze and pull the curtain back on the wizard(s).

The simple truth is that the legal system is broke. There are many reasons for this as in to many laws, political laws for posterity, etc..., etc... People can add tons of reasons for it.

Do people really know what a 'Life Sentence' means today. 20 years out in 8 because of overcrowding and it cost to damn much to keep them in jail for 20 years.

Imagine if you told every criminal to not plead out to a crime and insist on a jury trial. The whole system would collapse.

But alas,

What bothers me the most about this whole case is that it was used to generate 'emotions' on both sides, rather than find justice.

I don't know if Zimmerman was being hit in the head and etc... Supposedly there was a witness to it. However, does Trayvon deserve to die for it? basically a fight. I don't know. But, I tell you what I do know.

There was a reason that people treated people with respect and didn't go out look for or getting into trouble in the days begone because if you did you might get killed.

As I mentioned earlier. You might not deserve to die if you go into a Hell's Angels biker bar and call them pu55ies, but don't be surprise when you are killed.

Listen idiot, soviets by mass are white people. Jewish are white too. And so most of the Europeans.

Over 40 millions of white people died during ww2. Anyway ignore time.

Zimmerman and Trayvon are not gladiators settling half a century of perceived wrongs.  Its 2 guys, both of whom were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Link to source because I read they called the police the next morning when he did not return home and he was identified that day his father called.

Also, is it considered stalking and chasing if someone calls 911?  Usually the first person that calls the police is the victim.  Another reason to never trust the police.

Actually it is a crime, even in Florida.  Otherwise how could you defend your self against an assailant?  With your logic I can go out and just start picking fights.  If I am on the losing side, I just shoot the guy! 

And fully half those deaths of the Soviet people were caused by order of the Soviet leadership at the time, due to the utterly incredible philosophy of defending sacred places in the Rodina simply because the name matched the fuckwit leader "ograd" and the remaining deaths were from the ally they sided with in the beginning of the conflict, who turned around and tried to fuck them ala Napoleon with Operation Barbarossa. So you want pity for piss poor demonic leadership? Sorry New Soviet Boy, those 25 million were just cleaning up the shallow end of the gene pool. If you were on air defense it's a pity we never bombed your ass, it would have been a cake-walk.

Blah blah blah. My genes are a lot more better than yours according to you.

Lets put the BTC with your opinions.

The Judge will allow George Zimmerman to have bail?

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=339 (http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=339)

No, you just have a really freakin' big shallow end, filled with willing fucktoys of the nomenklatura.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


I do know that arguing that picture would be fruitless.

So, I'll save a few keystrokes and let Lou do it.

There is none - I don't remember where I read it and the BBC says Trayvon Martin wasn't carrying ID.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17682245

My bad.  It looks like the police wanted to charge but were overruled so I was wrong on 2 counts there :(

Just a few observations viv a vis the earlier photos that I have been asked to comment on...

What is the deal with having cap and gown ceremonies for little kids "graduating" from pre-school? No way in hell that kid on the right is old enough for high school or college, so I find it a little twisted and somewhat condescending to have him enjoy his "graduation" pomp and circumstance as a 7 year old.

And why do we have Masonic symbols on his cap? All Illuminati issues aside, this little fellow is far too young to be a Mason of any Level or Degree, so I'm guessing that the hat is a fake. Probably stolen.

As to that cherubic lad on the left... that is clearly not a good example of a Skinhead White. Most of those markings are fakes, executed in Sharpie. Anyone familiar with tattoos at even a rudimentary level could confirm that there is no way on earth you could achieve that level of perfection in ink application in so many diverse regions of the face. Next- the markings are not consistent... a Skin who proclaims he is the "Property of Jolene" above all other labels? Really, a Jewish sounding name like Jolene is more important than swastikas and "HUN"? Un-freaking-likely. And most modern day Skins do not use the traditional swastika, preferring instead the far more arcane images like the twin lightning bolts, 88, the Celtic Cross and the tri-legged cross.

And those piercing baby blue eyes- while clearly a race-baiters wet dream, are nothing more evil than photoshoppery.

And whilst on the subject of the "horrible tragic shooting of Trayvon"... let's take a look at revisionist history, shall we? In an effort to keep the flames of allegorical racism stoked there have been 2,537 edits to the wiki page on this story, so the "facts" that are coming into common hysterical public use here have been so spot on that it has required an average of 3.5 changes PER HOUR since the story broke. That's your liberal media cabal right there, framing reality just the way they want you to see it.

Oh, and if you are one of the sad souls who actually thinks that gassing anybody on the basis of skin color, or any other characteristic... some of those folks are armed. Approach with caution if you want to bring your traveling gas show to my town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Words_of_wisdom#On_Wikipedia_and_the_Cabal

There is no cabal. :P The number of edits reflect how disputed the topic is, not how biased. "Only" 3.5 vandal/troll edits per hour can be reverted effortlessly.

There is no statistic that will tell you how inaccurate an article is.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/world/europe/norway-breivik-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This is funny!!! Brevik was just defending himself....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LONUecnsMb8&feature=player_embedded


enjoy

Stalking isn't a crime unless a crime is committed dummy.

IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US! (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/149674/its-coming-right-for-us)

It all comes down to who threw down first.
It is not advisable to follow someone you think is a criminal, but it is in no way illegal. If Trayvon hit him first and started banging his head on the pavement then he has every right to stop a potentially deadly attack. It IS a crime to assault someone. What should he do? Just give up and say "Oh well, kids will be kids"?
As far as "stand your ground laws", here is what you give up without such a law: Let's say some Anders Brevik kind of maniac starts shooting you and your family across the street from me. I would likely have my CC weapon on me and be in a position to help. However, without a stand your ground law, I would run away. Sorry, but I can't risk going to jail just to save your kids.  Perhaps you could call the cops? Because when seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

LOL! Our village idiot said something!

http://www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx?dbID=DB_NewYork214#60

Um that is not correct.  If a crime is in progress, you have the right under common law to plead self-defence for any reasonable injury you inflict preventing it.  For example, giving a mugger a bloody nose even though he was robbing an old lady, not you, is perfectly legal.

"Stand your ground" takes this a step further.  If you think the guy is going to mug the old lady, maybe you can kill him.  The "reasonable" test is removed.

In this case, if Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman was well within his rights to kill him both under common law and "stand your ground" reinforces this.  On the other hand, if the voice screaming for mercy in the 911 call is that of Trayvon, Zimmerman is in trouble.

Maybe it was Trayvon screaming for assistance while on top of Zman and banging his head on the sidewalk.

I've seen people do that before. 

:)

Well the onus is on the prosecution...but that scenario seems unlikely to help the defence.  Zimmerman says it was him screaming.  If it was Trayvon, Zimmerman lied in his initial statement to the police and that would not look good to a jury.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. What if it is happening one street over? can I go over there to respond? What if it is 20 miles away? I am not going to find out in a court of law. I am going to run if at all possible, even if it means certain death for your family.
I would also not use my gun to stop a rape for example. Rape is not murder and I think stopping a rapist with deadly force is murder.

NY isn't a castle doctrine state and of course isn't stand your ground.  But you're allowed to use deadly force against rapists and kidnappers.

I don;t know about other states, but they probably have similar laws.

LOL,

Victim: Hey Stop !!! before I can shoot you, which type of criminal are you? Are you a Rapist or Kidnapper?

Criminal: ah... No.

Victim: Ok then go ahead and take my stuff. The money is in the vault. There is a lamp over there to murder me with when your done.

That was meant in defense of others, that means you don't need to retreat. Of course if a kidnapper or a rapist is after you, in NY you need to run very fast.

Au contraire, they'll need to run very fast. (Decides which type of shells to put into the AA-12). Lets see, bean bag, bird shot, buck shot, and the best for last the grenade round (Frag-12) http://youtu.be/cQYp9fOJ9VI (http://youtu.be/cQYp9fOJ9VI).

http://southflorida.sun-sentinel.com/news/os-george-zimmerman-bond-hearing-20120420,0,4802623.story

He made bail.

Now let's see if the "stand your ground" thing means the case is thrown out.

Really now... "got himself killed with his pseudo-macho gang-banger wanna-be antics" Really... and how did you determine this? So walking around outside = "pseudo-macho gang-banger wanna-be antic"?

Zimmerman walks around with a gun stalking (if you actually took the time to read through his previous 9-1-1 calls) young black males. He chased after Trayvon even after being told not to by a 9-1-1 operator. The irony is that it was Trayvon who "stood his ground" and confronted an armed stalker.

You're projecting a stereotypical view without knowing Trayvon's intentions. So much fail in your comment.

No one here knows George or Treyvon. So let's stop assigning our own thoughts to their heads. As far as "stalking", that's quite a loaded word. The police said "we don't need you to do that.." when they thought George was following Treyvon. It was not an order, nor was he breaking any rules following Treyvon.
Everyone was within their rights until the fight started. So who started the fight? That will be the alpha and the omega of this case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/24/us/chief-bill-lee-jr-expected-to-resign-in-trayvon-martin-case.html?hp

It seems the officer on the scene wanted to charge Zimmerman but was overruled. 

You know, if you take a step back and look at the big picture, the system seems to be working as intended.  The police did mess up as did the local DA.  Now, they are sorting things out.  I still think Zimmerman will walk if the voice pleading for mercy turns out to be his.  But overall, what was an ugly situation is becoming fairly normal.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/12/3655268/zimmermans-wife-charged-with-perjury.html

So Zimmerman lied under oath
His wife lied under oath

Uh .... That's a huge mistake, now all of their statements can be scrutinized.


George Zimmerman "does not properly respect the law or the integrity of the judicial process," Lester wrote.'

Well looks like the judge doesn't like Zimmerman already, nor we should believe anything that liar says.

You don't have to believe him.  The way the law works, the State has to make a case that is believable beyond all reasonable doubt.  Even if the defendant has a track record of similiar crimes, he still gets the benefit of the doubt.  In this case, it looks as if Zimmerman got greedy and lied so he could keep the money.  He may well go to jail for that.  But he still gets the benefit of the doubt on the Trayvon shooting.

Right, this is a different issue. It has nothing to do with lawfully shooting someone who is attempting to kill you.

Doesn't Trayvon get the benefit of the doubt too? he has no history committing violent crimes

He certainly should, but what facts are in dispute? All the claims I have heard in his defense have been made by people who weren't there.  Crap like "the police video proves he was not injured", or "Treyvon was heard pleading for his life on the audio". Now we know it was GZ begging for help and that the police video clearly shows his injuries. And remember the "raciest remark". Sounded something like "fgeoeoiaohe owdiupoar".

No we don't. You know nothing. Unless a court releases records it's a hearsay. What we know that GZ has a history of violence.


Soon we can read what Zimmerman said to police:
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/judge-george-zimmerman-statements-can-be-released/nPTTn/

Also the judge about Zimmerman:

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/order%20revoking%20bond.pdf

There are several factors that weigh against [George Zimmerman's] release: this is a serious charge for which life may be imposed; the evidence against him is strong; he has been charged with one prior crime, for which he went through a pre-trial diversion program, and has had an injunction lodged against him" for domestic violence.

"Most importantly, though, is the fact that he has now demonstrated that he does not properly respect the law or the integrity of the judicial process," Lester wrote.

Does anyone not find it ironic that the money Zimmerman collected for his "defense fund" is what got him back in jail and may put his wife in there too.

Yeah

We know that Zimmerman was injured, but that the EMTs did not think he was injured enough to warrant any medical attention right away. The cut on his head and the mark on his face to not match Zimmerman's description of the "head pounding" that took place at all.

Also, we DO NOT know it was Zimmerman screaming for help, the statements on that were "Not Zimmerman, but unconfirmed on Trayvon"(first audio experts) and "unconfirmable either way"(FBI)


There were stories reporting that in one statement, Zimmerman claimed he was jumped by Trayvon and Trayvon held his hand over GZ's mouth during the fight, which if true conflicts with the notion of the screams belonging to Zimmerman

I'm sure we'll find out a little bit more about the exact statements Zimmerman made to police soon though (http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/judge-orders-george-zimmermans-statements-trayvon-martins-autopsy)

The real poetry will be in the post-trial inevitable wrongful death civil suit from Trayvon's family, where all that donated money left over gets turned over to them

Which would have worked only if no transactions were in hard currency.  So they couldn't have used PayPal to collect the money in the first place.  They couldn't have paid their credit cards with Bitcoin.  I doubt they could have paid many of their living expenses with Bitcoin.  And they would have needed to find a lawyer who accepted Bitcoins and who wasn't obliged as an officer of the court to report that they had assets they could liquidate.  If anything, using Bitcoin would have made it look even more like they were attempting to hide assets and avoid AML/FinSEC reporting requirements.