Bitcoin Forum

The Monero shill boys, taking breaks between school or looking after their mums, have been rather vocal.

But I suspect the price hit a week or two ago was the height of Monero's promise.

This will be a dirty sell off, and  expect the duped punters to throw it all away after it drops another 25%.

Dead Coin Walking.

Funny thing is, all the fuss made, yet nobody apart from a handful of people even knew how to use the wallet (64 bit only, and no promises that it will work).

Oh dear.

turd

Now you'e being all personal, bag-holding dupe or shillboy?

General rule of thumb for alt coins - the more trolls it attracts, the more potential it has.

+1

HERE HERE!!  8)

What ? LOL
Did you guys just say that ? Oh really ???
I guess i will spend my life saving on investing in URO or ORB or Noble Coin or or or..

Gimme a fucking break  ::)

This right here proves why you shouldn't listen to veteran accounts.. they are often just idiot bag holders spouting off nonsense all the time.

yeah right, listen to Spoetnik, buy endorsed-by-him coins, i.e. Jackpot and Maxcoin

lol

What a fucking retard topic.

Monero already is by far the number one, technology-wise, community-wise, best coin hands down number one above all / except the price that's gonna follow gradually. If you want a lot of money (you probably do) and become a millionaire along the line (you probably want that) buy Monero while it is cheap as fuck. It's hands down the best possible coin, even Bitcoin is nothing against Monero. We have real privacy and real developers, world adoption imminent. All other altcoins are scams at their best and just outright ridiculously crappy. Needless to say if you invest in other coins you will lose your invested money whereas you will be rich buying Monero. This is the very law of success. Everyone can become multimillionaire with Monero, I'd argue 1-2 BTC investment is enough to become millionaire through XMR. And the best about it is that you won't have to convert to FIAT because it will be accepted all over the world within 5 years. Yes you read that right, even your mother will use it. No matter where, Monero will be all around the world payable via NFC.

Monero gives a flying fuck about tards talking crap like OP

you'll notice i don't push the coin on anyone and i have stated why i chose what coins i use..
i have always had a laid back you all do what you want approach to this stuff.
i don't take a pay check to advertise a coin like some guys do / have in the past.

my criteria is least worst LOL
as in i look for what suits my needs and try and find the one that's the least worst of what is out there
and i would rather support *older coins too

i could explain right here why i choose to support those two coins but i won't bother..
because i don't come here to shill..
when it comes down to it i don't really care what coins people want to use.
so unlike Monero or NEM or NXT guys i don't sit here 24/7 creating new topics to advertise to the point of sickening the community.

I chose what i did for me and my reasons for my purposes.. choose what ever coin(s) you want for your own reasons.
And yeah i have posted the odd random fanboy topic for say Jackpotcoin but i did so pretty much just joking
or to point out how bad some of the shills here are.

Monero is a clone of Cryptonote one of your cheerleaders said the other day.. that sums it up LOL

That is based on absolutely nothing other than you want XMR to grow.

Incidentally, I am not a Troll. I have an honest agenda, which is to point out that XMR is, in my opinion, a coin going nowhere.

I would not have bothered, but the shills and what appears to be a blatant attempt to use BTCtalk as a platform to spread propaganda by a significant number of people needs countering.

If you're secure, then posts like mine would be ignored, surely?

Just read your post, and then get back to us about how which poster has a clear learning difficulty.

"What a fucking retard topic".

"Monero gives a flying fuck about tards talking crap like OP".

I didn't even read the rest.

i think your assertions on the Monero situation are rather logical and seemingly honest.
It doesn't mean that Monero bag holders have to agree with you like i do but to just try and wright you off as a Troll is silly.
And what i heard from your first post was a valid and fair point(s) that will benefit new users.

We have ALL ALONG heard this or that "coin" is a sure thing and is "going to the moon"
and in the last year i have watched them all die off in value etc..
The crap some of the Monero cheerleaders here are proclaiming about Monero seem ludicrous and maybe out right dishonest.
Which should be countered some what for a more accurate perspective for users that will not know any better and are trying to decide what is what still.

Some of the Monero Fanboys(girls usually on their rag) claims are pretty bold LOL
Not sure why they seem to think Monero is going to take over the world or something..

Lol why the fuck does Monero get so much attention on these boards? It's anonymous...so the fuck what? Anon coins are last season, no one gives a fuck. Bitcoin's anonymous enough as it is; cops aren't busting people on Silk Road because their bitcoins weren't anon enough. Do you really think being SUPER anonymous is enough to get the masses flocking to XMR?? Give me a fucking break. What a stupid fucking coin for this board to give so much attention to...damn.

This is the golden rule... look what happened to URO. :D

Btw, OP is an idiot.

I don't use Monero or CryptoNote or anything like that, but that's a pretty ignorant assessment.

Law enforcement and the NSA absolutely have the capability to do blockchain analysis and deanonymize Bitcoin users when they put effort into it. Combined with the capability to tie Bitcoin addresses with exchanges or services like Coinbase, they very well can tie Bitcoins to your real identity if you use an exchange of some kind and don't use a mixer. This is not just theory. Read information published by blockchain analysts.

This does require other factors, like the cooperation of exchanges, or the NSA simply hacking or tapping the exchanges (and considering the Snowden leaks, that's not even remotely far fetched). In general though, if you are using Bitcoins to fund illegal shit, you can get caught purely through analysis of its blockchain.

Alternative protocols like Zerocoin and CryptoNote, assuming their implementation is perfect (and no implementation ever is), will in fact prevent such analyses and give a much stronger guarantee of anonymity.

Obviously if you don't care that the government can theoretically trace funds you send back to you (in the same way you don't care they can trace USD you send through Bank of America or what have you), then there's no reason to care about an anonymous cryptocurrency. But if you do care, then there is real value in using one. Same goes if you don't want people checking your public address to see how much of a currency you've sent or received.

Guy above me knows what's up. Very well said

Anon is cool and all and can have it's place, I'll give ya that. The problem is that it is and always will be a niche feature for a niche market. Grandma doesn't give a damn whether her bread purchase is super anonymous or not. And if you can't someday reel in Grandma/Joe Nobody with a better hook than "it's like bitcoin, but more anon!" then you won't have a prayer of seeing bitcoin-esque market caps. But hey, maybe I'm wrong, what do I know...

That's a fair argument.

I have absolutely no idea what kind of investment value anonymous cryptocurrencies have or might have in the future. I just know they do serve a real purpose, and will definitely be considered valuable by certain people and groups.

Good post. I do however think too much attention is given to the anonymity of a virtual currency. I think you said it perfectly by using the word 'theoretically' trace funds. But I think even with just Bitcoin, it wouldn't be too hard to create a wild goose chase of distributed payments that leaves the Feds nowhere. They don't have the resources for this. It's only the Silk Roads, Big players, etc, where they will invest months or years of time, and millions of dollars tracking down the money trail.

But regarding Monero, I'm bullish actually. Out of all the ALTs it has a crazy active community. Stable price, is still mineable. I see XMR going nowhere but up on a 3-6 month outlook.

Strato

Creating said wild goose chase is easy with (reliable) mixers.

The advantage of a fully anonymous cryptocurrency is that you can be lazy and not go through a mixer service, and still get automatic guarantees of privacy. Also, mixers can potentially steal all your coins, or log all mixing, or otherwise act in a malicious fashion.

If you use Bitcoin or a Bitcoin derived cryptocurrency and don't ever use a mixer or similar third party service, it is not that hard to trace your coins. It's not out of the question that a few smart NSA analysts could create a tool or bot that automatically follows unmixed BTC which is then automatically cross-referenced against Coinbase's or Bitstamp's account records; that way it could generate a database of a large number of Bitcoin users, not just targeted towards darknet market vendors. There are possible theoretical attacks against coins that have gone through mixers, depending on how many addresses are in the mixing pool at once and if you can exclude some of them, but it is definitely a lot harder and would be difficult to automate.

Tracing of unmixed coins, though, really is not theoretical and is being done already by open source researchers who have far less resources at their disposal. Believe it or not, deanonymization attacks against Tor are much more theoretical and more difficult to carry out compared to Bitcoin blockchain analysis.

As for how easily they can tie that to an identity, it depends if they deal with companies like Coinbase on a case-by-case basis ("here's a list of 15 BTC addresses, give us the customer information tied to all of these if you have them") or if they actually have a full view into their database.

Either way, there's a lot of potential for investigation by law enforcement and intelligence agencies, and use of an anonymous currency basically destroys all of that potential.

yeah EXACTLY !

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687231.1140

look at what happened by reading the URO scam coin topic in the scam section of the forum LOL

Coindesk has posted some stories on this not long ago..
he repeated back what some university researchers said publicly pretty much.

Interesting. Well I've bought BTC on coinbase, but merely as an investment to hold, or to buy miners which required payment in BTC.

I'm only asking out of curiosity. So let's say someone mines an AltCoin... Let's say XMR, or even one less anonymous for the sake of my interest in this.  They then take the Altcoins, send them to Bittrex, and sell for BTC.  They then send them out to a paper wallet.  Is that trackable? Factor the mining rigs were all on a VPN, a solid VPN. And all transactions were also behind a VPN and TOR.

Or would this erase the tracks... Someone buys BTC on Coinbase. Trackable yes. They then send the BTC to MiningRigRentals, or BetaRigs, where they rent by the hour high end mining farms - mining Litecoin. They point the rented rigs to a pool that the user setup/created account behind a VPN and TOR. They then send those mined Litecoins to Poloniex. And trade them to XC Coin. Which they send to a wallet on a safe computer. Which they then send to Mintpal, and convert to BTC.   Whew!!!

My point or question, is what does the above do or not do to erase tracks. Again I'm simply curious, because to me the above scenarios would seem very hard to trace.

Thanks for your input, you seem to be very up on all of this... Interesting stuff.

Strato

OP is butthurt.

OP please make more Monero bashing spam threads so I might be able to buy more even lower.

Cheers!

BTW if you really think you're helping other people by telling them not to buy XMR because it's going nowhere you might need a reality check.

I work in information/network security and I deal with the same kinds of things and cases the NSA or FBI might deal with regularly. I don't really have any particular knowledge of Bitcoin that any of you don't, I just know how correlation, investigative techniques, and forensic traces can be used to identify and deanonymize people.

The more "black box" middlemen (coins go in, coins go out, outsiders don't know what happens in between; this in contrast to the blockchain, which is transparent) you add to the chain, obviously the harder things will be to trace. NSA/FBI may have insight into Coinbase and Mintpal, but perhaps not the other services, for example. If they are unable to gain access to even just one of those services, then the trail pretty much falls flat unless the target makes a serious mistake. But of course, the downside is that the more trust you place into third parties, the higher the risk one of those third parties might get hacked or may scam you. If you're running a hypothetical illegal enterprise, you probably don't want to trust that many third parties with your coins or your mining boxes.

The short of it is that laundering like you describe will indeed make analysis much, much harder, but not necessarily impossible if enough resources were devoted to it. In your particular case, a dedicated task force would probably have to be after a specific target for them to go through all the steps necessary that would lead to that person. Of course, in reality, odds are in this hypothetical scenario they will have some other information to go on that's not even Bitcoin related and will just go for the weakest link instead (an email address, a forum account, etc.). There are many more ways to track someone than just "following the money".

An anonymous cryptocurrency simply lets you be lazy, and doesn't require you to trust any third party to retain your anonymity or do some sort of mixing step before receiving currency to your final destination wallet. You very well can be anonymous with Bitcoin, but it's much easier to do so with an anonymous cryptocurrency.

cross referencing is a nasty weapon LOL
and it's one usually in denial by so called experts online defending this or that.. false sense of security runs rampant !

the coindesk story i mentioned show how some university students used that method to trace Bitcoin users.
so it has been tested and how it was done was posted online and it supposedly require little computing power to do too !
sorry all i forgot the name of the news story though :(
it was a fairly new story like a month or two ago roughly.. on Bitcoin itself

edit:
here is something more interesting and useful than Monero bullshit..

read this = http://mvhsoracle.com/features/my-experience-with-a-pyramid-scheme

guess this means the market cap looks like:

Quark
eMuni
Bitcoin
FTC
Monero

although the hack certainly give eMuni a possible lead.

interesting no one is trolling Cryptonite yet - i guess its not very marketable, and if it sees any rise expect the turd storm to come ha ha.

why can't we all get along : D

Hey, I resemble that remark! :P

[But truth be told, I don't own any Monero...]

So we're back to those days, are we? Wow! Things move so fast around here, I've picked up a decade's worth of hard-won speculator's wisdom in six months...