Bitcoin Forum

Pretty fucked-up news:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/11097208/Why-Bangladesh-will-jail-Bitcoin-traders.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/11097208/Why-Bangladesh-will-jail-Bitcoin-traders.html)


And not very long time ago:

Bangladesh get its own Bitcoin Foundation

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112354/bangladesh-get-its-own-bitcoin-foundation (http://cointelegraph.com/news/112354/bangladesh-get-its-own-bitcoin-foundation)

EDIT:

Found the link on reddit, one of the comments:


If the above is true, it's possible that it's just a standard Bangladeshi gov's response to every new technology...

But can you imagine going to jail for 12 years for sending bitcoins? Madness.

Sounds like the Bank is making the laws over there. This is what happens when you give banksters power.

they have a police?  :o

Bangladesh is a common law nation, based on British common law. If the people understood how powerful this is, they could almost outlaw the government. In the event you are interested in how common law can be used over there, look at how Karl Lentz is teaching people to use it in the United Kingdom.

http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=127469&cmd=tc

Many of the Talkshoe recordings are hosted by Bali, from the U.K. I don't know where his family is originally from, but with a name like Bali, might even be Bangladesh.

:)

Pretty cool country they've got there. Banks being scared of bitcoin is pretty cute at this point.

we should start a petition to make them change their minds!

I don't think they will be able to enforce this. The trading of bitcoin is simply too difficult to track by the police, especially when it is done in secret and not in the open

no ,we should ignore it !

It is very telling when a nation bans Bitcoin.  It's one thing to warn people about it using at their own discretion but when you ban Bitcoin it makes me wonder what the real reasoning behind that decision is.  It's also telling that corruption is so high in Bangladesh and I can imagine a small amount of people would be threatened by the lack of financial control Bitcoin would bring if the people of Bangladesh decided to adopt Bitcoin.

even without the Ban, people here in Bangladesh is pretty restricted in terms of using Bitcoin. Because we don't have any local trading system to accept bitcoin. So what the hell should I do with my bitcoin in Bangladesh. >:( >:(

It is, in theory possible to overthrow any government regardless if "the law" allows for this to happen. I would however doubt that they would attempt to overthrow the government of Bangladesh in an attempt to be able to use bitcoin, the benefits are simply not there for the people to try to do that.

Serves them right. If they start getting the internet and figuring out how much the clothes they make sell for: the government's fucked.

The idea isn't to overthrow the government. The idea is to protect yourself from the government.

In English common law, there are basically only 3 things that the government can get you for:
1. If you harm somebody;
2. If you damage his property;
3. Breach of contract.

The government can make all the statutes stick, if you don't fight them on common law grounds. But if you fight them common law, nothing sticks except the above 3.

Individual use of Bitcoin can't be stopped in a common law country, unless it can be proven that the Bitcoin user has violated one of the 3. And there has to be literal harm to a person shown, or damage to his property. Breach of contract is really damage of property.

:)

Can't expect a country like Bangladesh to embrace technology innovation.

Some people prefer to be remain staying in the cave or on the tree. Let them.

Propaganda

Likely some capital control measure but the irony is that the upper class and middle class in Bangladesh already has the means to move their money abroad.

So the end result is this is just a sickening move to deprive people the opportunity to have a bank account.

If I recall the main issue they've had with MicroCredit was the fact that practically nobody has access to a bank account in India, due to class and/or caste discrimination.   Bitcoin is finally a means for these people to have a near-equivalent to a bank account but no surprise that the upper class elites are hostile towards Bitcoin.

yeah at what cost?

those poor poor bitcoiners. they didn't do anything wrong!

https://i.imgur.com/GyNQpWO.jpg

Bitcoin is freedom. You express the value of your hard work, your sweat and effort the way you want to, not because of the mandate of some financial/governmental entity. Thus, it is natural and expected that many governments will fear the onset of a system that allows the citizenry to escape from financial slavery. The slaves are revolting. Bitcoin is a litmus test for showing which governments truly respect the will of the people versus those that seek to keep them financially burdened by a decrepit, inflated, debt based fiat money system.

Wow... Talk about stupidity from Bangladesh's government. One of the countries that could most gain with Bitcoin remittances, says it's ilegal to use it. I wonder if someone within Bangladesh's central bank has a high stake in the remittances businesses.

As a warning to anyone reading this, it is complete nonsense, and has nothing to do with the definition of a common law country.

This country is behind many years comparing to other countries. There is no much internet coverage and many people have no bank accounts. Even they deny the new technology and will fall behind forever.

Who cares about Bangladesh, it's rotten from inside.

Especially third world countries would benefit from allowing Bitcoin.

It can give their "economy" an incredible boost.

When talking about "countries" you always have to distinguish between government/elite and population. Same in the US - doesn't matter what helps the majority. They're not making the decisions.

There is something perverse about the idea of "since bitcoin is not legal, then obviously it is illegal and we will ruin your life if you use it"
No punishment would ever make up for the sick ideas that the 20th century elite managed to impose on humanity

1) Sent to jail
2) Cannot access wallet
3) Hodl for 12 years
4) Profit

Lol. But then:

5) another 12 years in jail (for selling/using bitcoins)

Absolutely amazing what Countries will do to prevent bitcoin being used in their Countries even taking drastic measures like this to prevent it. It's a sorry shame to see that they will go to these lengths to do this however, I see people finding a way around it.

While it is true that not all common law countries are created equal, English common law is very powerful. There are two parts to it. There's the part that the Crown enjoys, having to do with past rulings, and there is the part that the people can enjoy, if they know about it. It is called Queen's Bench, and used properly, it makes use of the basic 3 parts listed in my first post above.

See what has taken place in England regarding this, within the last couple of years or so. Similar can happen in Bangladesh if the people start to wake up.

http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=127469&cmd=tc

http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html

While not everything in the links is UK, it is all based on the basic kind of law that Bangladesh has. Bangladesh has English common law. The stuff in the links can be used, with a few tweaks, in Bangladesh.

:)

These links are junk.
What they are claiming (basically that you don't have to follow any law that doesn't directly damage a specific person or their property) is junk.
He is just trying to sell his books/DVDs. An impressive 4 Add To Carts and 2 Donates just on the one page.
And I'm going to go out on a wild limb and say that when people don't manage to avoid convictions for breaking the law, he will always say it is because they have implemented his ideas slightly wrong, rather than them being complete fantasy.


For example, this rubbish:

Written in Olde Worlde English to try to pretend it actually has some historic basis.
What is it?
Where is the legal basis for this rubbish?

Some of his posts seem like stream-of-altered-consciousness:

Do you really want to take legal advice from this man?

Correct me if I'm wrong but is this one of those "sovereign citizen" bullcrap that I kept hearing about?

Well, he said it works.   ???

No, it's not. In fact, Karl is totally against the "'sovereign citizen' bullcrap that" you keep hearing about.

:)

EDIT: http://distribution-point.com/224af7db0140b9b6.html

Look, all it has to do with is, if someone wrongs you, and won't make it right, you go to court with a claim against that person. This is standard stuff that has been done since the USA started. And it was developed in Britain over hundreds of years.

If the other party doesn't attempt to refute the claim, but if he could have attempted, or if he could have refuted, but doesn't, you win. This is the thing that the banks are doing to people with outstanding debts all the time. The difference is that a bank can only file a complaint, whereas people can file claims, if they have a vested interest in what they are claiming.

:)

EDIT: It's called common law. watch Judge Judy. When she gets a couple of people into court who are a little more organized, she doesn't say much. all she does is make a judgment based on the sworn testimony of the people involved, and the evidence they bring forth.

It can be done in Bangladesh, because Bangladesh is a common law country that uses English common law. The biggest problem is that the people are poor and ignorant much of the time. But if a wealthier person who knew how to read and write helped them out, there would be no stopping them. Either the government would have to become a civil law government, or they would win.

One Word describes it all "CONSERVATIVE" madafakaz

maybe the price is declining because the bangladesh police hunts BTC dealers at the moment.

Yes. And it has nothing to do with the rubbish you started with:
That isn't the law. At least not in actual real world countries.


Oh my god, did you just seriously say that?

Okay? I won't argue, because I don't know how Bangladesh common law works. But, it is English common law, so it should be similar to the U.K. Here is the basic stuff about common law in the U.S.

1. It is common knowledge that if you are accused of something, you have the right to face your accuser.

2. You can look up Trinsey v. Pagliaro yourself, but among the things that it says is, "An attorney for the plaintiff cannot admit evidence into the court. He is either an attorney or a witness". This means that the attorney for your accuser can't even speak if you don't let him, unless he is going to be witness with firsthand knowledge of your case. Of course, then he is the accuser, and can't act as an attorney.

3. Don't represent yourself. Don't let anyone represent you. Rather, be a man or woman and PRESENT yourself. This makes it so that you have to have a man or woman accuser face you with the accusation.

4. If the United States, or one of the States is bringing the charge against you, then the United States better take the stand. A representative for the United States isn't allowed to take the stand, because you have a right to face your accuser, and you are doing it man to man.

5. You win because the United States or the State isn't able to walk up to the stand, place its hand on the Bible, swear or affirm, and answer any of your questions in cross examination, including signing an affidavit to the claim of wrongdoing made against you.

6. If, somehow, the United States or the State manages to take the stand, there has to be real harm or damage, or breaking of a contract, shown before they can rule against you. They can accuse you of doing all kinds of things against a statute, and they may be absolutely right, but if there is no harm or damage, and if your name isn't listed and you haven't signed as a party to the statute, you win, they lose.

7. Go after them for money for filing a false claim against you.

This is American common law. It isn't English common law. English common law is a little more straight forward in some ways. It has Queen's Bench, which makes it more straight forward, even though there is an additional step.

English common law for Bangladesh.

If any of you readers are having problems in Bangladesh, contact Karl. He has a heavy workload. So, keep on trying if he doesn't get back to you right away. His contact locations are listed at the websites I have already listed in this thread.

If you are American, British (whole British Isles), or Canadian, Karl is ready to go. If CPS (or the corresponding governmental agency in Canada or the U.K.) took your kids, Karl will help you get them back without charging you for it.

I'm not saying any of this to drum up business for Karl. I'm saying it to help anyone who needs help. I am also saying it because we need to strengthen all the common law nations out there - Bangladesh - so that Bitcoin can remain freely in the hands of ALL the people.

:)

Sigh. So much rubbish.


I can, and have. I don't think you have.
You just accepted what was said by someone else without checking it.


No, it doesn't.
It says: (http://www.leagle.com/decision/1964876229FSupp647_1743)

They failed to formally present evidence to the court in the correct way to support their case, just saying that such evidence existed wasn't enough.
Please try to find the words you have presented as a "quote" anywhere in the actual transcript of the case.


No it doesn't.
He cannot give evidence. That doesn't mean he can't speak.
He can ask witnesses questions in order to examine and test their evidence.
He can describe the evidence that has been given.
He can sum up the evidence, and suggest what implications and conclusions should be drawn from it.

This doesn't actually mean anything, so can't really be discussed.

Rubbish. Simply untrue, as demonstrated by every criminal case in the US.


Rubbish, as above.
You must have noticed that, in the real world, this simply isn't true.
There are thousands if not millions of people in prison in the US for drug crimes which don't fit any of your descriptions.
Do you really think that none of their lawyers spotted this obvious loophole you seem to think exists?


No it isn't.


Possibly the only correct statement in your entire post.


I'm fascinated by what you think the Queen's Bench is?
Here is a hint: The original King's/Queen's Bench for England and Wales as abolished in 1875. The current Queen's Bench is a division of the High Court of Justice.
You can read transcripts of their cases here: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2014/

Your description of the law may well be wonderful idea.
But it does not reflect the law in this, the actual real world.

That's the problem. Folks simply love to be led like sheep to the slaughter in front of the judges, because they don't know that they can stand up in ways other than what is normally done.

Regarding Trinsey v. Pagliaro, the site you gave didn't have the whole case, at least not that I could see. In cases, there are often many "holdings" that have little to do with the particular case, yet they form precedence. The holding I listed above, is in the actual T. v. P. case judgment rendering by the judge. Find it and you will see.

:)

For a better understanding of how common law works, read Void Judgments at http://www.scribd.com/doc/75335955/Void-Judgment .

:)

You find it.
I've posted the actual case transcript.
Here is another link to it: https://casetext.com/case/trinsey-v-pagliaro/
And another: http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar_case?case=15281186693327493555
It doesn't say what you thought it did.
If you are so confident that it does say what you think, you must have actually read the full transcript? So post a link to it. Or haven't you actually read it yourself?
You won't find one, because the judge didn't say what you think he did. That "quote" is commentary added by someone who either didn't understand what was said, or knew that most of their readers wouldn't actually check, so just made stuff up.

So is the answer seriously yes?
You really think that you have found a wonderful loophole in the law that somehow every lawyer and defendant has missed, and there are millions of people in prison who could have simply walked free if only they knew what you did?
That's... pretty delusional.

Not a loophole. It's taken the legal system at least 70 or 80 years of NOT training their attorneys in this kind of common law, to get the legal system where it is today. It's a similar thing to the way the banking industry has turned the banking system into a debt system rather than a simple money system. Only it took the banking system a lot longer to set their whole thing up. For them, we have a $200 trillion more or less hidden world debt that corresponds to our $17 trillion in the US.

The whole thing amounts to trust. Average people placed their trust in the legal system, and the banking system used it to screw them. As for the millions of people in prison, there are loads of them there who have done nothing deserving of it. There was no harm or damage done to anyone. Yet they are treated as though they are criminals of the worst kind. Consider all the people who have done time simply because they smoked a joint, even though they harmed nobody.

If you research it, you will find that the prison system in the US is the largest in the world by far. And if you research a little further, you will find loads of people who are making a lot of money off the people in prison, including something similar to using them for slave labor. All this is happening because the legal system has gradually hidden, over a bunch of decades, the method that the people used to use to protect themselves from government.

Common law is NOT something new. It goes back to the foundations of our country.

:)

This post doesn't have much to do with Bangladesh, but it is a start toward getting back to the common law of the people. Once US people see this, we can start to get our people out of prison, and start the Bangladesh people in America onto methods that they and their relatives still in Bangladesh can use in their home country. American common law is similar to English common law. Bangladesh is based on English common law.

The website for the US Courts has changed. A look at the way it used to be is here: http://www.broadmind.org/uploads/usdc_all_state_courts_are_common_law_courts_02._pdf.pdf

The way it is now is here: http://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/get-informed/federal-court-basics.aspx .  Notice that the common law parts have been removed, at least as far as being stated.

Google "United States common law." Use the DuckDuckGo search engine for some different results.

A reasonable link for finding the position of common law in America: http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/RulesAndPolicies/rules/DallasMiniConf_Materials/Case%20Law%20on%20Elements%20of%20a%20Potential%20Preservation%20Rule.pdf .

Take a look at the Karl Lentz links in my previous posts on this thread and others.

:)

well, what a stupid government  :P

Whaaaat?!!!!!!????

Frankly, who cares about Bangladesh? Half of them are trying to cross into India, and the other half are fleeing to the Gulf.

Besides, they will never be able to sync their wallets anyway with their dial ups ;D

This is ridiculous, we need civilized people not these fucking morons runing countries.

Bangalesh alone is really not a very big influence on the bitcoin economy. It does however set a potentially bad precedent that other countries could follow that would cause it to be very difficult to use bitcoin (or trade bitcoin) in places of the world that have governments with similar views.

Have there been any instances of this law being applied to individuals yet?

All central banks fear bitcoin because it has the potential to take all control away from them.

This is what convinces me that the ruling elite are particularly short-sighted.
Yes, you can be stinking rich by oppressing the masses and keeping them poor. On the other hand, you can not oppress them and be almost as stinking rich while being able to access the output of a much more productive workforce. And not have to worry about revolutions quite as much.

Keep it. Use it online. Use it when you're out of country. But if you're really desperate and don't know what the hell you should do with your bitcoins, you can send them to my address below and you need not have to worry about it anymore

they don't really know if this is the future of transaction... let them grow up first  ;D

And then they didn't

FWIW, the west is the closest to what you described out of nearly any other bloc of civilizations in the history of the world.

I look at voter apathy (in the absence of things like 'one candidate per ballot' or 'vote

• or be dissapeared') as a measure of how good things are.

If you can't be bothered to get off your ass to vote, you don't really have any big societal issues to address.

It's exactly this kind of bullshit that makes sure some poor countries will continue to stay poor.

There is something perverse about the idea of "since bitcoin is not legal, then obviously it is illegal and we will ruin your life if you use it"
No punishment would ever make up for the sick ideas that the 20th century elite managed to impose on humanity.

The US is not too much far away from that.

Instead of punishment by jail time they make money from early adopter with asset tax on bitcoins.

There is huge contradiction..! As far as I know Payza is authorized payment processor in Bangladesh and most of e-commerce websites accepts Payza there , and payze itself accepts withdrawal in bitcoin, so are they going to ban payza too don't know where they are heading towards .... what a mess..?

It can't be a coincidence that the countries taking these hostile actions towards Bitcoin are almost all totalitarian regimes that historically enact policies economically harmful to their own citizens.

poor bitcoiners.  should have bought gold

Is bitcoin really capable of toppling the current frequency of a certain country?

Funny, like BTC is going to magically solve their problems ::)

You are just angry you are not getting suckers to buy BTC and make you rich.

While most people in Bangladesh are poverty stricken and illiterate, most Americans are similar with regard to their country, the United States of America.

The underlying, basic law in America is common law.

Things that can be done with pure common law by any American who knows:

1. Grow your own weed for your own use without being stopped.

2. Get your weed back from the government at your trial. Also proves you innocence.

3. No more traffic fines if you have not harmed anyone or damaged his property.

4. Hold a judge in contempt if he does not recognize your status under common law.

5. No more school requirements for your kids. If CPS takes them, you get them back.

6. Freedom to do ANYTHING that does not harm someone, damage his property, or break a contract.

:)

Lol..there's literally no way they could track the BTC transactions.!! Bangladesh has a lots of problems in itself...no way someone looks into these affairs.!