Title: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: kgo on September 19, 2014, 05:22:22 PM Surprised there isn't a thread on this yet:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/19/us-sec-bitcoin-fraud-idUSKBN0HE1Z820140919 Discuss... Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: remotemass on September 19, 2014, 06:10:07 PM Is it final?
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: ChrisKoss on September 19, 2014, 06:18:08 PM Anybody have a link to the court ruling doc?
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: Gleb Gamow on September 19, 2014, 06:20:19 PM Surprised there isn't a thread on this yet: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/19/us-sec-bitcoin-fraud-idUSKBN0HE1Z820140919 Discuss... Quote Mazzant held Shavers and his company liable to give up $38.6 million of illegal profits plus $1.8 million in interest. Each defendant was also fined $150,000. I give! What other defendants? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55819.0 Quote Fully Supported Pools Deepbit BTCGuild Eligius Ozcoin Eclipse BitMinter 50BTC Bitlc MaxBTC One episode ends, with another beginning with the US Marshals closing down BFL today. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: dogtor on September 19, 2014, 06:48:47 PM There were two defendants in the case iirc: BTCST and Trendon Shavers.
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: CoinDiver on September 19, 2014, 07:01:39 PM What if the crash is pirate@40 selling off coins he still has to pay the judgement?
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: bornil267645 on September 19, 2014, 07:02:50 PM bad for us :-[ :-[ bad for the BTC community :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: CoinHoarder on September 19, 2014, 07:54:47 PM One episode ends, with another beginning with the US Marshals closing down BFL today. Proof? Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: bigasic on September 19, 2014, 08:03:58 PM Might as well been a billion dollars. He doesn't have a dime to his name.. So, its something that he will owe for the rest of his life..
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: snarlpill on September 19, 2014, 08:36:10 PM $40 million is a pretty hefty amount for sure. Pirateat40 was before my time in Bitcoin, but I've read a lot about it. The crazy thing is he made it a Long time with payouts continuing for a Ponzi and even had a few trusted members on here vouching for him didn't he? All I can say is if he does have to pay for the rest of his life, I hope most of it goes to the people he ended up stealing from. Although sadly this money will probably just be swallowed up by the govt. ::)
Also about the price crashing being him dumping his coins- my guess is if he had any money in BTC left, that'd he want to keep it in cryptos, if you know what I'm saying. That would allow him to earn and spend money without chunks of it being automatically taken for his debt. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: juju on September 19, 2014, 08:39:09 PM One episode ends, with another beginning with the US Marshals closing down BFL today. Proof? I don't have any proof CoinHoarder but I have heard this news from 2 others today as well. If someone has info link it Edit: This might be of some Help: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg8891220#msg8891220 Still haven't read through it yet. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: gog1 on September 19, 2014, 08:45:11 PM I don't think the victims will see a penny
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: Ruthful on September 19, 2014, 08:45:36 PM bad for us :-[ :-[ bad for the BTC community :-[ :-[ I don't get it ???.I thought you guys would be happy that somebody that has been scamming the bitcoin community is getting his just desserts. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: Ruthful on September 19, 2014, 08:49:57 PM I don't think the victims will see a penny That depends, does the court appoint a receivership yet?If it has , chances are the victims can get some of their monies back if they file claims.In the ASD ponzi case , all the victim that filed claim with the receivership got back 100% of their money back And the Zeek reward receivership is set up to give favourable returns to the victims( judging by the clawback infos). Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: BCB on September 19, 2014, 08:51:59 PM Why was this person targeted? From the CoinDesk article I thought he was like selling to little old ladies or something, but it looks like he was doing it on here. Was a class action set up of BTC Talk members? It's a LONG story. The forum is fill with threads. Search "Trendon Shavers" "pirate@40" It will go down in history as one of the great bitcoin scams. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: CoinHoarder on September 19, 2014, 08:53:41 PM One episode ends, with another beginning with the US Marshals closing down BFL today. Proof? I don't have any proof CoinHoarder but I have heard this news from 2 others today as well. If someone has info link it Edit: This might be of some Help: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg8891220#msg8891220 Still haven't read through it yet. No worries. I ended up finding that thread. I hope it's true, BFL are crooks. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: SgtMoth on September 19, 2014, 08:54:35 PM Good for him!
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: leannemckim46 on September 19, 2014, 10:11:44 PM I don't think the victims will see a penny That depends, does the court appoint a receivership yet?If it has , chances are the victims can get some of their monies back if they file claims.In the ASD ponzi case , all the victim that filed claim with the receivership got back 100% of their money back And the Zeek reward receivership is set up to give favourable returns to the victims( judging by the clawback infos). Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: yayayo on September 19, 2014, 10:42:18 PM And how is he going to pay that $40 million? From a secret treasure chest?
To me it seems that public authorities try to distinguish themselves as good guys doing consumer protection in Bitcoin's wild West, legitimizing further Bitcoin "regulation". I think in hindsight it was an obvious ponzi and I don't know how it was possible that it grew to such proportions. I think it's a good lesson for everyone not to be blinded by greed. ya.ya.yo! Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: BCB on September 19, 2014, 11:11:27 PM not to be blinded by greed. Famous last words. The history books are filled with stories of men who have been brought down by greed. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: Soros Shorts on September 19, 2014, 11:41:06 PM I don't think the victims will see a penny That depends, does the court appoint a receivership yet?If it has , chances are the victims can get some of their monies back if they file claims.In the ASD ponzi case , all the victim that filed claim with the receivership got back 100% of their money back And the Zeek reward receivership is set up to give favourable returns to the victims( judging by the clawback infos). Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: CoinHeavy on September 20, 2014, 01:41:53 AM What are the prospects for recovering any funds?
Does he claim to have access to the private keys for these coins? Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: jbreher on September 20, 2014, 03:45:19 AM What are the prospects for recovering any funds? Does he claim to have access to the private keys for these coins? There are no funds. No keys. No coins. All gone. Finito. Think through the mechanics of how a Ponzi scheme operates. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: Bitsky on September 20, 2014, 07:12:18 AM Well many BCST investors went indirectly through passthroughs because they were getting better rates at up to 7% a week. The problem is that many of the passthrough operators were anonymous and are now long gone. I just don't see how these investors could ever make a claim and get something back as Pirate does not have their individual records. Many, not all. The operator of the biggest one (BitcoinMax) is known. I wonder if Ian is still thinking that burying the head in the sand is a long-term solution.Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: robhimself on September 20, 2014, 07:42:27 AM Glad to see court are willing to lay the civil suit smackdown on BTC related fraudsters.
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: freedomno1 on September 20, 2014, 07:45:37 AM They finally went and fined Trendon Shavers
Took long enough But according to the decision, Shavers used new bitcoin to repay earlier investors, diverted some to personal accounts at the now-bankrupt Mt. Gox exchange and elsewhere, and spent some investor funds on rent, food, shopping and casino visits. Ah Gox RIP. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: tss on September 20, 2014, 02:13:19 PM ahh.. ponzi after ponzi. we all know how to spot them yet we're still participating and advertising for them. some things never change.
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: Scott J on September 20, 2014, 02:23:44 PM Glad to finally see some justice, even if it is mostly ineffectual.
Even is he somehow paid the $40 million, would the SEC even try to distribute to victims. It's a fine rather than an order to pay people back. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: jbreher on September 20, 2014, 06:36:00 PM Glad to see court are willing to lay the civil suit smackdown on BTC related fraudsters. I don't really know how our laws are structured in these matters. But in my mind, justice should have been served through criminal prosecution, not civil. It seems quite simple to me. Shavers employed fraud to steal from people. Steal. Criminal. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: pedrog on September 20, 2014, 06:40:05 PM Well, I guess now it's pirate at 40 million dollars debt!
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/40261/849410-horatio460.jpg Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: snarlpill on September 20, 2014, 06:44:48 PM ^ Awesome. So much better as epic Horatio tagline.
Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: Melbustus on September 20, 2014, 06:52:06 PM ... I think in hindsight it was an obvious ponzi and I don't know how it was possible that it grew to such proportions. ... Hindsight?! It was obvious to probably the majority of people that it was a Ponzi from day-1. 7% weekly is obviously mathematically unsustainable. Plenty of people made this point over and over. The reality is that many of the "investors" knew it had to be a Ponzi, or highly suspected as much, and put money in anyway because they figured they could get out earlier than the next guy. Frankly, it's a little hard to consider the vast majority of "investors" in this to be "victims". More accurately, they were gamblers who lost. This was not some well-hidden accounting-tricks/book-obfuscation thing that took diligent people by surprise... tl;dr: The pirate scam was despicable, but its "investors" should probably be called "gamblers" more so than "victims". Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: toleng on September 20, 2014, 06:58:49 PM Glad to see court are willing to lay the civil suit smackdown on BTC related fraudsters. I don't really know how our laws are structured in these matters. But in my mind, justice should have been served through criminal prosecution, not civil. It seems quite simple to me. Shavers employed fraud to steal from people. Steal. Criminal. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: dogtor on September 20, 2014, 07:20:40 PM ... I think in hindsight it was an obvious ponzi and I don't know how it was possible that it grew to such proportions. ... Hindsight?! It was obvious to probably the majority of people that it was a Ponzi from day-1. 7% weekly is obviously mathematically unsustainable. Plenty of people made this point over and over. The reality is that many of the "investors" knew it had to be a Ponzi, or highly suspected as much, and put money in anyway because they figured they could get out earlier than the next guy. Frankly, it's a little hard to consider the vast majority of "investors" in this to be "victims". More accurately, they were gamblers who lost. This was not some well-hidden accounting-tricks/book-obfuscation thing that took diligent people by surprise... tl;dr: The pirate scam was despicable, but its "investors" should probably be called "gamblers" more so than "victims". Some would say bitcoin's volatility makes us "gamblers" more than "investors." Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: bitlover on September 20, 2014, 08:08:07 PM Some would say bitcoin's volatility makes us "gamblers" more than "investors." I'm pretty sure that, at this stage of the game, that "some" is actually pretty much anybody. Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: Melbustus on September 20, 2014, 08:18:42 PM Some would say bitcoin's volatility makes us "gamblers" more than "investors." I'm pretty sure that, at this stage of the game, that "some" is actually pretty much anybody. Volatility doesn't define whether you can consider something an "investment" or not. Arguably the only reasonable definition is whether a decent case can be made that the position is positive-expectation, whatever the variance. There are plenty of decent theses for buying/holding bitcoin right now being +EV. Note that some may consider investments with variance beyond some threshold to be "bad investments" due to what they subjectively consider to be unacceptably-high volatility, which is a perfectly rational opinion to hold and definition to make. By contrast, there was no reasonable thesis for the pirate scam to be long-run profitable for participants. Thus, it was a -EV position for participants, much like roulette is necessarily -EV at a casino, but poker is not (necessarily). Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: leannemckim46 on September 20, 2014, 11:44:16 PM Some would say bitcoin's volatility makes us "gamblers" more than "investors." I'm pretty sure that, at this stage of the game, that "some" is actually pretty much anybody. Volatility doesn't define whether you can consider something an "investment" or not. Arguably the only reasonable definition is whether a decent case can be made that the position is positive-expectation, whatever the variance. There are plenty of decent theses for buying/holding bitcoin right now being +EV. Note that some may consider investments with variance beyond some threshold to be "bad investments" due to what they subjectively consider to be unacceptably-high volatility, which is a perfectly rational opinion to hold and definition to make. By contrast, there was no reasonable thesis for the pirate scam to be long-run profitable for participants. Thus, it was a -EV position for participants, much like roulette is necessarily -EV at a casino, but poker is not (necessarily). Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: snappa4ever on September 22, 2014, 04:15:58 AM Some would say bitcoin's volatility makes us "gamblers" more than "investors." I'm pretty sure that, at this stage of the game, that "some" is actually pretty much anybody. Volatility doesn't define whether you can consider something an "investment" or not. Arguably the only reasonable definition is whether a decent case can be made that the position is positive-expectation, whatever the variance. There are plenty of decent theses for buying/holding bitcoin right now being +EV. Note that some may consider investments with variance beyond some threshold to be "bad investments" due to what they subjectively consider to be unacceptably-high volatility, which is a perfectly rational opinion to hold and definition to make. By contrast, there was no reasonable thesis for the pirate scam to be long-run profitable for participants. Thus, it was a -EV position for participants, much like roulette is necessarily -EV at a casino, but poker is not (necessarily). Title: Re: Pirate@40 fined $40 million dollars Post by: yayayo on September 24, 2014, 03:21:29 PM ... I think in hindsight it was an obvious ponzi and I don't know how it was possible that it grew to such proportions. ... Hindsight?! It was obvious to probably the majority of people that it was a Ponzi from day-1. 7% weekly is obviously mathematically unsustainable. Plenty of people made this point over and over. The reality is that many of the "investors" knew it had to be a Ponzi, or highly suspected as much, and put money in anyway because they figured they could get out earlier than the next guy. ... When the promised reward is high enough, people's emotions tend to override logical thought. So many people willingly accept almost any explanation for the exceptionally high reward because they want it to be true. While it does not shift away the responsibility from the ponzi "investors", this emotional interface is exploited by a great number of ponzi schemes. A gambling addict often can understand the irrationality of his behavior, but when confronted with a high potential reward his logic processor is deactivated by the positive emotionality of the possible future reward. ya.ya.yo! |