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Throughout history, civilizations have formed around different guiding principles or philosophies.  Different types of states utilize different methods of maintaining political stability, governing birthrates and resource consumption in order to facilitate social and economic progress.  Yet, usually, one method is dominant and thus forms the basis of state power.  Over time, civilizations may take on different attributes of each type, or move from one form of state to another.  These types include:

• The Warfare State -- Help your friends.  Harm your enemies.  Plunder the countryside.  
  • Monarchies tend toward the Warfare State.
  • Prerequisites: resource scarcity, economic dependency
  • Examples:  Roman Empire, Imperial Britain, Imperial France, Imperial Germany, Imperial Japan, Imperial Russia.
  • It works because:  You either win and get more resources or you lose and have fewer mouths to feed.
  • It stops working when:  You run out of enemies who are better-off than you.
• The Welfare State -- Re-distribution of wealth.  Equal poverty for all.  
  • Democracies and oligarchies tend toward the Welfare State.
  • Prerequisites:  wealth disparity, strong central government
  • Examples:  USSR, 20th century Britain, USA & Europe, some ancient Middle-Eastern societies
  • It works because:  Non-starving people have fewer children.
  • It stops working when:  You run out of wealth to re-distribute and/or the economy implodes.
• The Eugenics State -- Survival of the fittest (in theory, at least).  
  • Republics tend toward the Eugenics State.
  • Prerequisites:  cultural diversity, economic austerity
  • Examples:  Sparta, Roman Republic, Nazi Germany, Colonial America
  • It works because:  You can have as many citizens as you want if they are all hard working.
  • It stops working when:  People find out how it works.
• The Education State -- Big Brother sends you to re-education camp.
  • Technocracies tend toward the Education State.
  • Prerequisites:  resource abundance, economic stability, diffuse government structure
  • Examples:  19th century USA, China, 21st century Africa?
  • It works because:  Educated people work productively in their own self-interest to support themselves.
  • It stops working when:  You run out of new technologies or resources, and growth stagnates.

This thread is primarily to recognize the existence of the Education State as a thing and to discuss its properties.  Though all discussion is welcome.

So what properties make the Education State superior?  Education is ultimately just information transfer, which theoretically has a zero bound on cost.  Education is ostensibly meritocratic, hopefully avoiding the unfortunate economic results of the Welfare State.  Compulsory education has relatively few downsides in terms of human rights.  Furthermore, unlike some others, the Education State can be global, egalitarian and completely decentralized.

What are the downsides of the Education State?  These include the downsides of any state, including corruption, abuse, and perversion of ends.  As social critics have pointed out, perverse consequences of the Education State can be especially nefarious due to its cloak of benevolence, which can be used to hide ill intentions.  One generally unrecognized potential downside of the Education State is a downside of any centralized technocracy or meritocracy, namely technological economic centralization, leading to magnification of risk and likely systemic failure.  Another downside of the Education State is that it tends towards utopianism, and thus fails in natural competition with more realistic alternatives.

Where is the Education State today?  With the internet and computing revolutions, the increasing tenuousness of the Welfare State in developed Western economies, and the opening of sub-Saharan Africa to development, much of the world is currently moving toward the Education State model.  At the same time, however, resource conflict, advanced propaganda techniques and information censorship are pushing the world back toward the Welfare/Warfare States.

Education will flourish better in an environment of liberty than it will under a compulsive state run educational system.

What's the highest grade/level of education that *you* have completed?

Education = money

As long as we use your money to pay for my education, I am all for it.  Barrack Obama is against education because he does not believe in your ability to choose your own self-directed education.   Stossel did research on headstart, it turns out the kids on it do no better than the kids not on it, it is a complete waste of money.

Not sure yet, but I do know that I started learning a lot more since I got out of school.

One thing I did learn in school, was not to let school get in the way of your education. ;)

That is correct since people will not be concerned about education during a war but they will think of survival. If there are educational systems during the war it is only combat and survival. In order for an educational system to sustain itself and develop it needs an environment of peace so that the students can focus more clearly in development, arts and etc.

I believe that the state should pay for education only. Special education must be paid by the business which then employs qualified specialists in their enterprises. So many talented young people cannot afford to pay for education and therefore remain unclaimed. It is not correct.

Yes, if the state requires an education for employment, then it must pay for education. And then everyone will decide to learn it or not.

Every person has the right to try to get an education, but if he can't or won't learn he must be expelled. It may be the first year to pay tuition should the state, and then the sponsors.

I believe that the state should pay education to low-income families if their child is talented or children who do not have parents.

if you want advanced education then we must find out his way to make and educate the next generation of us.

give them the freedom to learn so that we know what is appropriate for them in the future

That is correct since people will not be concerned about education during a war but they will think of survival. If there are educational systems during the war it is only combat and survival. In order for an educational system to sustain itself and develop it needs an environment of peace so that the students can focus more clearly in development, arts and etc.
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I accept as true with you that nobody will consider education during the war everyone will fight for survival Education acquires and develops our knowledge But money is required in life. Everything is feasible with money but the urge to survive through education can't be found Therefore albeit the state of education is unbroken money is required.

Education is a general term for learning a new thing. To your knowledge, people tend to confuse Education with schools. Just like schools are not around to operate but education keeps going on. Smart people don't stay awake without reading through a book. A person that doesn't read is no different from somebody that doesn't know how to read. So if the government tries to hinder the education system, it can only be the formal educations that happen in schools. But informal Education is in our hand to ourselves.

@Yourhomeboy So true. A person acquires his education in all activities of his childhood; all his waking hours are spent in learning in one form or another. It is clearly absurd to limit the term “education” to a person’s formal schooling. He is learning all the time. He learns and forms ideas about other people, their desires, and actions to achieve them, the world and the natural laws that govern it; and his own ends, and how to achieve them. He formulates ideas on the nature of man, and what his own and others’ ends should be in light of this nature. This is a continual process, and it is obvious that formal schooling constitutes only an item in this process. In a fundamental sense, as a matter of fact, everyone is “selfeducated.”

The point is that the points in the OP move us toward loss of freedom.

8)

The educational process encourages the full development of an individuals inherent qualities and helps him to acquire the skills needed to establish Himself as a productive member of society. Education is the acquisition of knowledge or skills in the general scene. In a board scene, education is the process of gaining systematic knowledge. But education is a continuous practice of developing to the fullest of potential.
In the words of socrates,"education is the eradication of falsehood and the development of truth". Aristotle said, Education is to create a healthy mind in a healthy body.   

The state refers to a political organisation that has the sovereign power to control the people of a geographical area and it’s adjoining areas. The state usually consists of a group of instructions. These instructions, as authorities, make rules for governing members of the society living within the respective geographical boundaries. While it is truth that status as a state depends to a large extent on it’s recognition as a state, it depends on the recognition of different states.
   
Under max weber's sphere of influence, the state is an organisation that has absolute control over all means of law enforcement in a given territory, including the armed force, civilians, society, the bureaucracy, the courts and law enforcement.                                 

The education state is the most powerful that can exist.
However, governments do not want this to happen because they do not want their people to be educated. Thy want their citizens to live in darkness in order to pass pacts that are not beneficial to them.

Western education tilts towards radical left lately, and this is not a healthy sign. Freedom of speech, open dialogue and challenge are being taken away from students which is pathological and frightening in the long run

The education state goes on subliminally in TV, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and even in browsing the Web with the computer.

8)

I accept as true with you that nobody will consider education during the war everyone will fight for survival Education acquires and develops our knowledge But money is required in life. Everything is feasible with money but the urge to survive through education can't be found Therefore albeit the state of education is unbroken money is required.

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i wouldnt say it was a 'education state' id say it is more of a influencer state we are seeing more prevalent in the last couple decades

more kids 'learn' from influencers. whether it be a teacher, or their parents or even TV/media
kids are influenced to act a certain way by what they have observed by influencers.

even things like what the president of a country does influences people. there are the idiot community that believe trumps words even when he is being an idiot they patriotically follow him like drones

then there is the social media influencers that make kids think they deserve to be famous without putting in any hard work (millenials).

then there is the news medis influencers that make the poor feel like they should remain stuck in their situations an not better themselves by pushing the stereotypes.
yep black slavery ended many decades ago. but media push the 'black lives matter' as if its still the 1800-1950's of segregation..

even now media try to push the racial divide.
in the UK during march 10.7k whites died of covid. whilst only 470 indians died of covid. yet media is pushng hard and trying to promote community groups that are shouting out that indians are more at risk of covid than whites.

so yea.. its a influencer state not education state. because true education is about learning useful things. influencer state is brainwashing people with stupid thoughts

The state of education must be improved tons but at present there's no touch of education in western countries yet. the govt isn't taking any action liable for this the govt of any country doesn't want anyone to talk against them in order that they have kept the state of education low. The helpless poor people cannot educate their sons and daughters thanks to a scarcity of cash therein case if the govt has made arrangements for free of charge schools and stipends then everyone will have access to education and therefore the state of education is going to be further improved.

people tend to confuse Education with schools. Just like schools are not around to operate but education keeps going on. Smart people don't stay awake without reading through a book.. https://www.fbsolutions.co.uk/ (https://www.fbsolutions.co.uk/)

   
Re: The Education State
May 13, 2020, 07:03:21 PM
   
Reply with quote  #21
The education state is the most powerful that can exist.
However, governments do not want this to happen because they do not want their people to be educated. Thy want their citizens to live in darkness in order to pass pacts that are not beneficial to them.
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That is correct since people will not be concerned about education during a war but they will think of survival. If there are educational systems during the war it is only combat and survival. In order for an educational system to sustain itself and develop it needs an environment of peace so that the students can focus more clearly in development, arts and etc.
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Educational system is very important currently because education will enable you to reason equivalent like God also make you to be civilised in all ramifications, education taught us how to
manufacture our eatable things we consumed today,the same education let us know that we can communicate with English language,the same education let us to know that human organ's can be implanted by medical doctors, education brought the ideology of road,house and bridges construction,the same education let us to know the importannts of
Plants and crops, therefore from perspective I stand to let you comprehend that education is father of everything and without education nothing can work out easily,even companies and businesses can't work in accordance because all of this need data base which is the functions of educationalist to educate human to be above animal reasoning.
That is the reason why we are called higher animal base on our understanding and our creativity on earth.education is the most expensive task everyone can have.
So therefore is encouraging that everyone have to attend to school before going into skill or adventuring into business that will frustrate their life in time coming.
I want to use this  medium to recapitulate by saying that without education we can not  assembly in this forum to deliberate on issues.

I believe that the state should pay education to low-income families if their child is talented or children who do not have parents.
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I honestly think that there are many ways to learn stuff outside of school. I.e I had a job before fixing computers and programming some work in C# recently, but I have a degree in Business and Info Technology mix with pretty much no programming work. I learned most of my coding from a hands-on approach and through trial and error (also as a hobby since I really liked computers from a young age). I do think that a degree can help people to move forward in the workplace and become a better qualified candidate for different and higher end jobs, but overall I honestly do believe that hands-on real world experience > college & school.

No matter how poor the oldsters are, they need to teach their children but thanks to low income and adequate money it's impossible for them to run it therein case if the govt of the country helps it's certainly possible. it's important for the govt to require steps to introduce the required education system.

I think education depends on each person individually. It doesn't matter how good the education is if the person doesn't want to learn something.
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Education will flourish better in an environment of liberty than it will under a compulsive state run educational system.!

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Education will flourish better in an environment of liberty than it will under a compulsive state run educational system.
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The educations state?

You're really talking about television, right?

8)

Only slaves of the government are forced by the government to educate their own kids.

8)

The educational state we have right now primarily relies on the technological advancement which have been triggered by the modernization we have as of the moment which have been empowered more thoroughly by the presence of the Coronavirus pandemic on which while state universities across the world are temporarily close to prevent the spread of virus and it is said that people ranging from 0-20 years old are vulnerable to get infected by the virus, which is the age bracket for people that are studying, education have been proposed to still continue with less to no face to face basis that will be basing on the existence of technological presence which means education will be held through online classes using Zoom app or any related video platform to still continue discussing lessons while pandemic is still on.

That educational state implementation proposal would be a big challenge most specially for third world countries due to lots of difficulties adapting that new platform of learning also considering the ability to have gadgets to be used for online learning and internet connection needed to acquire the capability to connect on online classes. With that, it is said that a big percentage of students will not be able to enroll this academic year if that proposal will be push through which is happening in our country. So our department of education is still seeking for lots of alternative ways possible to still maintain the quality and good education state of our country despite of the pandemic.

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Education is vital within the lifetime of every person improvement isn't possible without education nothing is permanent in life social relationships won't always be an equivalent whoever you wish today might not such as you tomorrow. The one who is praising today tomorrow he could also be your harsh critic.

Education is transmitted by your parents, if they didn't or couldn't do that you yourself can greatly enhance your education over self determination.
Believe in yourself and change for the better. Willpower and discipline is needed to do that. The problem is that it does not come from nothing.
Most people just as Will Smith keeps saying are not willing to do that >
Discipline and most of being self discipline is what is needed to auto educate yourself, sport, better food all that is needed to become a better person.  
Some people in the 3rd World also educate themselves and some even accept Bitcoin now.
Sites like https://tresvisiones.com accept litecoin and bitcoin alike.  

Knowledge is important which we get through the education but what we are doing with the current education system?

We are developing the employees but there is not enough jobs in this world anymore so we should make changes in the system if we want the people to survive.