The Education State

[benjamindees]

Throughout history, civilizations have formed around different guiding principles or philosophies.  Different types of states utilize different methods of maintaining political stability, governing birthrates and resource consumption in order to facilitate social and economic progress.  Yet, usually, one method is dominant and thus forms the basis of state power.  Over time, civilizations may take on different attributes of each type, or move from one form of state to another.  These types include:

• The Warfare State -- Help your friends.  Harm your enemies.  Plunder the countryside.  
  • Monarchies tend toward the Warfare State.
  • Prerequisites: resource scarcity, economic dependency
  • Examples:  Roman Empire, Imperial Britain, Imperial France, Imperial Germany, Imperial Japan, Imperial Russia.
  • It works because:  You either win and get more resources or you lose and have fewer mouths to feed.
  • It stops working when:  You run out of enemies who are better-off than you.
• The Welfare State -- Re-distribution of wealth.  Equal poverty for all.  
  • Democracies and oligarchies tend toward the Welfare State.
  • Prerequisites:  wealth disparity, strong central government
  • Examples:  USSR, 20th century Britain, USA & Europe, some ancient Middle-Eastern societies
  • It works because:  Non-starving people have fewer children.
  • It stops working when:  You run out of wealth to re-distribute and/or the economy implodes.
• The Eugenics State -- Survival of the fittest (in theory, at least).  
  • Republics tend toward the Eugenics State.
  • Prerequisites:  cultural diversity, economic austerity
  • Examples:  Sparta, Roman Republic, Nazi Germany, Colonial America
  • It works because:  You can have as many citizens as you want if they are all hard working.
  • It stops working when:  People find out how it works.
• The Education State -- Big Brother sends you to re-education camp.
  • Technocracies tend toward the Education State.
  • Prerequisites:  resource abundance, economic stability, diffuse government structure
  • Examples:  19th century USA, China, 21st century Africa?
  • It works because:  Educated people work productively in their own self-interest to support themselves.
  • It stops working when:  You run out of new technologies or resources, and growth stagnates.

This thread is primarily to recognize the existence of the Education State as a thing and to discuss its properties.  Though all discussion is welcome.

So what properties make the Education State superior?  Education is ultimately just information transfer, which theoretically has a zero bound on cost.  Education is ostensibly meritocratic, hopefully avoiding the unfortunate economic results of the Welfare State.  Compulsory education has relatively few downsides in terms of human rights.  Furthermore, unlike some others, the Education State can be global, egalitarian and completely decentralized.

What are the downsides of the Education State?  These include the downsides of any state, including corruption, abuse, and perversion of ends.  As social critics have pointed out, perverse consequences of the Education State can be especially nefarious due to its cloak of benevolence, which can be used to hide ill intentions.  One generally unrecognized potential downside of the Education State is a downside of any centralized technocracy or meritocracy, namely technological economic centralization, leading to magnification of risk and likely systemic failure.  Another downside of the Education State is that it tends towards utopianism, and thus fails in natural competition with more realistic alternatives.

Where is the Education State today?  With the internet and computing revolutions, the increasing tenuousness of the Welfare State in developed Western economies, and the opening of sub-Saharan Africa to development, much of the world is currently moving toward the Education State model.  At the same time, however, resource conflict, advanced propaganda techniques and information censorship are pushing the world back toward the Welfare/Warfare States.

[Bees Brothers]

Education will flourish better in an environment of liberty than it will under a compulsive state run educational system.

[faidsaid]

Throughout history, civilizations have formed around different guiding principles or philosophies.  Different types of states utilize different methods of maintaining political stability, governing birthrates and resource consumption in order to facilitate social and economic progress.  Yet, usually, one method is dominant and thus forms the basis of state power.  Over time, civilizations may take on different attributes of each type, or move from one form of state to another.  These types include:

• The Warfare State -- Help your friends.  Harm your enemies.  Plunder the countryside.  
  • Monarchies tend toward the Warfare State.
  • Prerequisites: resource scarcity, economic dependency
  • Examples:  Roman Empire, Imperial Britain, Imperial France, Imperial Germany, Imperial Japan, Imperial Russia.
  • It works because:  You either win and get more resources or you lose and have fewer mouths to feed.
  • It stops working when:  You run out of enemies who are better-off than you.
• The Welfare State -- Re-distribution of wealth.  Equal poverty for all.  
  • Democracies and oligarchies tend toward the Welfare State.
  • Prerequisites:  wealth disparity, strong central government
  • Examples:  USSR, 20th century Britain, USA & Europe, some ancient Middle-Eastern societies
  • It works because:  Non-starving people have fewer children.
  • It stops working when:  You run out of wealth to re-distribute and/or the economy implodes.
• The Eugenics State -- Survival of the fittest (in theory, at least).  
  • Republics tend toward the Eugenics State.
  • Prerequisites:  cultural diversity, economic austerity
  • Examples:  Sparta, Roman Republic, Nazi Germany, Colonial America
  • It works because:  You can have as many citizens as you want if they are all hard working.
  • It stops working when:  People find out how it works.
• The Education State -- Big Brother sends you to re-education camp.
  • Technocracies tend toward the Education State.
  • Prerequisites:  resource abundance, economic stability, diffuse government structure
  • Examples:  19th century USA, China, 21st century Africa?
  • It works because:  Educated people work productively in their own self-interest to support themselves.
  • It stops working when:  You run out of new technologies or resources, and growth stagnates.

This thread is primarily to recognize the existence of the Education State as a thing and to discuss its properties.  Though all discussion is welcome.

So what properties make the Education State superior?  Education is ultimately just information transfer, which theoretically has a zero bound on cost.  Education is ostensibly meritocratic, hopefully avoiding the unfortunate economic results of the Welfare State.  Compulsory education has relatively few downsides in terms of human rights.  Furthermore, unlike some others, the Education State can be global, egalitarian and completely decentralized.

What are the downsides of the Education State?  These include the downsides of any state, including corruption, abuse, and perversion of ends.  As social critics have pointed out, perverse consequences of the Education State can be especially nefarious due to its cloak of benevolence, which can be used to hide ill intentions.  One generally unrecognized potential downside of the Education State is a downside of any centralized technocracy or meritocracy, namely technological economic centralization, leading to magnification of risk and likely systemic failure.  Another downside of the Education State is that it tends towards utopianism, and thus fails in natural competition with more realistic alternatives.

Where is the Education State today?  With the internet and computing revolutions, the increasing tenuousness of the Welfare State in developed Western economies, and the opening of sub-Saharan Africa to development, much of the world is currently moving toward the Education State model.  At the same time, however, resource conflict, advanced propaganda techniques and information censorship are pushing the world back toward the Welfare/Warfare States.

What's the highest grade/level of education that *you* have completed?

[Nyaaan]

Education = money

[steelhouse]

As long as we use your money to pay for my education, I am all for it.  Barrack Obama is against education because he does not believe in your ability to choose your own self-directed education.   Stossel did research on headstart, it turns out the kids on it do no better than the kids not on it, it is a complete waste of money.

[Bees Brothers]

What's the highest grade/level of education that *you* have completed?

Not sure yet, but I do know that I started learning a lot more since I got out of school.

One thing I did learn in school, was not to let school get in the way of your education.

[Xester]

Education will flourish better in an environment of liberty than it will under a compulsive state run educational system.

That is correct since people will not be concerned about education during a war but they will think of survival. If there are educational systems during the war it is only combat and survival. In order for an educational system to sustain itself and develop it needs an environment of peace so that the students can focus more clearly in development, arts and etc.

[Forester618]

Education will flourish better in an environment of liberty than it will under a compulsive state run educational system.

That is correct since people will not be concerned about education during a war but they will think of survival. If there are educational systems during the war it is only combat and survival. In order for an educational system to sustain itself and develop it needs an environment of peace so that the students can focus more clearly in development, arts and etc.

I believe that the state should pay for education only. Special education must be paid by the business which then employs qualified specialists in their enterprises. So many talented young people cannot afford to pay for education and therefore remain unclaimed. It is not correct.

[jonnybravo0411]

Education will flourish better in an environment of liberty than it will under a compulsive state run educational system.

That is correct since people will not be concerned about education during a war but they will think of survival. If there are educational systems during the war it is only combat and survival. In order for an educational system to sustain itself and develop it needs an environment of peace so that the students can focus more clearly in development, arts and etc.

I believe that the state should pay for education only. Special education must be paid by the business which then employs qualified specialists in their enterprises. So many talented young people cannot afford to pay for education and therefore remain unclaimed. It is not correct.

Yes, if the state requires an education for employment, then it must pay for education. And then everyone will decide to learn it or not.

[Kobalt]

Education will flourish better in an environment of liberty than it will under a compulsive state run educational system.

That is correct since people will not be concerned about education during a war but they will think of survival. If there are educational systems during the war it is only combat and survival. In order for an educational system to sustain itself and develop it needs an environment of peace so that the students can focus more clearly in development, arts and etc.

I believe that the state should pay for education only. Special education must be paid by the business which then employs qualified specialists in their enterprises. So many talented young people cannot afford to pay for education and therefore remain unclaimed. It is not correct.

Yes, if the state requires an education for employment, then it must pay for education. And then everyone will decide to learn it or not.

Every person has the right to try to get an education, but if he can't or won't learn he must be expelled. It may be the first year to pay tuition should the state, and then the sponsors.

[Ronxawala]

I believe that the state should pay education to low-income families if their child is talented or children who do not have parents.

[farharhadi]

if you want advanced education then we must find out his way to make and educate the next generation of us.

give them the freedom to learn so that we know what is appropriate for them in the future

[ajay9219]

Education = money

That is correct since people will not be concerned about education during a war but they will think of survival. If there are educational systems during the war it is only combat and survival. In order for an educational system to sustain itself and develop it needs an environment of peace so that the students can focus more clearly in development, arts and etc.
https://humasyed.com/

[Subbir]

Education = money

That is correct since people will not be concerned about education during a war but they will think of survival. If there are educational systems during the war it is only combat and survival. In order for an educational system to sustain itself and develop it needs an environment of peace so that the students can focus more clearly in development, arts and etc.
https://humasyed.com/

I accept as true with you that nobody will consider education during the war everyone will fight for survival Education acquires and develops our knowledge But money is required in life. Everything is feasible with money but the urge to survive through education can't be found Therefore albeit the state of education is unbroken money is required.

[Yourhomeboy]

Education is a general term for learning a new thing. To your knowledge, people tend to confuse Education with schools. Just like schools are not around to operate but education keeps going on. Smart people don't stay awake without reading through a book. A person that doesn't read is no different from somebody that doesn't know how to read. So if the government tries to hinder the education system, it can only be the formal educations that happen in schools. But informal Education is in our hand to ourselves.

[AlgoSwan]

@Yourhomeboy So true. A person acquires his education in all activities of his childhood; all his waking hours are spent in learning in one form or another. It is clearly absurd to limit the term “education” to a person’s formal schooling. He is learning all the time. He learns and forms ideas about other people, their desires, and actions to achieve them, the world and the natural laws that govern it; and his own ends, and how to achieve them. He formulates ideas on the nature of man, and what his own and others’ ends should be in light of this nature. This is a continual process, and it is obvious that formal schooling constitutes only an item in this process. In a fundamental sense, as a matter of fact, everyone is “selfeducated.”

[BADecker]

The point is that the points in the OP move us toward loss of freedom.

[Alamgirsony]

The educational process encourages the full development of an individuals inherent qualities and helps him to acquire the skills needed to establish Himself as a productive member of society. Education is the acquisition of knowledge or skills in the general scene. In a board scene, education is the process of gaining systematic knowledge. But education is a continuous practice of developing to the fullest of potential.
In the words of socrates,"education is the eradication of falsehood and the development of truth". Aristotle said, Education is to create a healthy mind in a healthy body.   

The state refers to a political organisation that has the sovereign power to control the people of a geographical area and it’s adjoining areas. The state usually consists of a group of instructions. These instructions, as authorities, make rules for governing members of the society living within the respective geographical boundaries. While it is truth that status as a state depends to a large extent on it’s recognition as a state, it depends on the recognition of different states.
   
Under max weber's sphere of influence, the state is an organisation that has absolute control over all means of law enforcement in a given territory, including the armed force, civilians, society, the bureaucracy, the courts and law enforcement.                                 

[Naida_BR]

The education state is the most powerful that can exist.
However, governments do not want this to happen because they do not want their people to be educated. Thy want their citizens to live in darkness in order to pass pacts that are not beneficial to them.

[canaris1985]

Western education tilts towards radical left lately, and this is not a healthy sign. Freedom of speech, open dialogue and challenge are being taken away from students which is pathological and frightening in the long run