Bitcoin Forum

I recently had a brain tumor removed and I had my right side Balance hearing mechanics removed, I am applying for disability until i recover.

Filling out the form I came across the question "Do you own any bitcoin or cryptocurrency"

Comments?

technically you control rather then own right? So you should be good to go

Even if you say no... They can't verify it...can they?

Interesting!

How are you going to answer? I'd be inclined to say no depending on how many you have I guess. Not sure how I'd play it actually.

It is a perfectly legitimate question if there is a financial means test for disability benefits.

Nobody owns any bitcoins. The fact that they even ask the question shows a mis-understanding of the nature of decentralized cryptocurrency. If makes as much sense as asking if you own the number seven. Numbers are transcendent, nobody can own them.

In my case, I don't even own a cryptographic key to any bitcoins. I will admit that I do know a phrase that if you perform a HASH-256 on it, then convert to base-58, then add a checksum, then you could sweep an address and get some bitcoins.

But do I own any bitcoins? The answer is definitely "no".

Just write in the answer, "none of your fucken business".

That's like the kind of stupid questions you see from the Americans when they ask about terrorism and espionage, they aren't going to be able to prove anything regardless unless you show them it directly and the only other way they'd find out is by spying on you because Bitcoin wallets and Bitcoins themselves don't directly link to a person.

I mean, if you really want to be careful and say yes to be honest then by all means, but I don't think there will be repercussions either way but you'd have to consult a lawyer on that to be sure.

I used to have a phone with a bitcoin wallet app, unfortunately I lost the phone in a boating accident  :-\

This.

1. They cannot find out if you have any BTC so you might as well say no.
2. The question is worded incorrectly so the answer is no anyway.

I do find it quite interesting how they're asking this. It's probably so that people don't try chuck all their money into BTC so they can get the disability benefits. The question was probably created by a guy that was paid to do some research on how you can hide money from the government. Just saying though http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2hfevd/terror_laws_clear_senate_enabling_entire/ .

Well, then no you don't own any coins. Glad we got that settled.

While we -or many of us- know that technically noone "owns" bitcoin, we all understand what they want to know. You want money from your peers* and in turn they ask how much money do you own or control or can move or can use to get goods. Smartassing your way out of this makes you antisocial. No matter how smug you feel about it, its still money your family and friends pay taxes for. I dont know how much bitcoin you "have" but unless you have a significant amount it should not make a difference. And if you hold a significant amount you should not get money from your government.


* keep in mind that the money from your gov comes from those paying tax

thank god i only own this ripple-scam...

You should answer : "What is that ?"
But, my country don't care we have / use bitcoin  ;D
But no protection if our bitcoin lose / stolen  :(


They will sure you have bitcoin  :P

Here is what you should write:

"The answer is no, I don't own any bitcoins. No one owns any bitcoins. Ownership is not a relevant concept on the blockchain, there is only control/access.

Think of the blockchain as a huge series of glass safety deposit boxes, transparent but impenetrable. Anyone on the planet can go visit these boxes, see what's inside, and even make a deposit to any box (blockchain address) they choose. However, the glass itself is invulnerable to attack.
You either have the (private) keys to a particular box (address) or you don't. The vast majority of boxes (addresses) has only one or two sets of keys, privately held. The keys to some of the boxes have been destroyed, which means you can put money in, but never take it out, sort of like a black hole for wealth.
Some of these boxes (addresses) may have publicly known "private" keys, which is the same as saying they are always "unlocked" for public use.

With the advent of cryptocurrency, math - information itself -  became a form of currency."

You don't have to disclose that, they cannot legally prove you own a wallet

This is just too technical. In the practical side, it can be said that you own bitcoins and you can spend them whenever you want.

Practicality does not give you the power to bend reality or language to your will. Reality is reality, and no one can own information, it is free by default, most especially now in the internet age. Bitcoin is information.

Just as water always seeks to flow downhill, information always seeks to be free. Once information has passed to a new location outside of the source's control there is no way of ensuring it is not propagated further, and therefore will naturally tend towards a state where that information is widely distributed.  On the one hand information wants to be expensive, because it's so valuable. The right information in the right place just changes your life. On the other hand, information wants to be free, because the cost of getting it out is getting lower and lower all the time. So you have these two fighting against each other. 

That's sad, want a satoshi?

The moment you give them any information and answer yes is the moment the investigation into your true assets begins. If you answer no than those "red flags" don't get tripped and even if they see you are using bitcoin you still answered truthfully because at that exact moment when you filled out the form you didn't own any bitcoins.

Language “bends” (or rather, evolves) constantly, and words can change meanings, and although I agree no one can own information, Bitcoin is more than just information. The fact that I can know that private key X has control over Y amount of bitcoins, doesn't mean that I can spend them. Information is not enough to use Bitcoin.

It's just semantics, you KNOW what they are really asking you and the answer is apparently YES.  I'm not saying you should put yes on a form like that but if you can spend them or sell them for fiat, the answer is yes.

If they can trace your purchases then they could determine whether or not you have bought any Bitcoin, but as many others have pointed out ownership is a rather convoluted idea. If you're confronted then just say you lost them, and make sure you don't leave any evidence otherwise. I suspect this tact will work a lot better than getting all philosophical and debating the idea of 'ownership'.

I don't like the fact that this questionnaire is just asking whether or not you own Bitcoin, this is setting the stage for a witch hunt down the line.

You need to listen to "Miranda".

      "You have the right to remain silent when questioned. Anything you say or do may be used against you in a court of law. "

Once you claim you own any than it is up to their opinion on whether you are being honest or not when you later say you lost them.

You will not outsmart them at their own game, enter their jurisdiction and play by their rules and they will win.

If they do investigate you a jury or tax audit agent is more likely to believe that you "didn't own any at that time because you were broke and spent them" and now have some in this hot wallet(70-100 AUS$ worth) than you lost your bitcoins.

Maybe it's a survey, how many people with brain problems use Bitcoin?

Have you, or any member of your family,

been convicted of a crime or offense for which a pardon has not been granted?

been convicted of, or are currently charged with, on trial for, or party to a crime or offence, or subject of any criminal proceedings in any other country?

been refused admission to, or ordered to leave, this country or any other country?

been involved in an act of genocide, a war crime or in the commission of a crime against humanity?

used, planned or advocated the use of armed struggle or violence to reach political, religious or social objectives?

been associated with a group that used, uses, advocated or advocates the use of armed struggle or violence to reach political, religious or social objectives?

been a member of an organization that is or was engaged in an activity that is part of a pattern of criminal activity?

been detained, incarcerated or put in jail?

are you insane?

do you have weapons of mass destruction?

do you have any doge coins? Much wow?

Likely they believe almost all of us have "brain problems" if we use Bitcoin. Simply owning bitcoin will probably send off many red flags just as claiming you are self employed or own your a small business. Whenever they get a hint that you have something they cannot control alarms start to happen and they begin to wonder.

False.  "Own" refers to the value of the bitcoins, not the bitcoins themselves.  It's a convenient way to say that you claim that value, and that you'd care if someone stole it from you.  In other words, everyone knows what they're asking.

Spinning language technicalities the right way in order to serve your own self interest is a fine legal tradition and one that lawyers and governments are quite happy to take advantage of, honesty, common sense and the natural evolution of language be damned.
I say use this wording ambiguity to avoid disclosing your bitcoins as long as possible. The legal types can come up with a stricter definition of 'owning' bitcoins later on.

Sure it's legitimate! If the question was beneath the question asking if you have any funds in PayPal, of which would be above the question asking if you have any funds in Dwolla. Then, followed by, do you own a piggy bank to store your loose change?

That's an excellent analogy

Not true! A certain brainiac on this forum was asked pointblank if he was sent home last Friday, in reference to the BFL raid. His reply was that he worked till 4 PM. Later, he recanted by stating that he wasn't asked where he works, when the general consensus is that he works at BFL, defending them to this very day.

Ergo, nobody owns bitcoins or Bitcoin, thus the answer is no, even if some balance sheet shows 100 BTC on account. Technically, you don't own your own home if you at least have one more payment to make to some banking institute due to a loan. Same true for any vehicle in its driveway.

If the answer will determine your ability to get medical help, you might be need to fill out the form. "Beggars can't be choosers." Check out local laws about the requirements to answer certain private questions on the form.

What does it matter if you own bitcoins or others?

If you don't want to appear that you own any, but you have some, get rid of them before you sign the paper.

Is this question being used to accumulate statistics? Or is it being used to determine your ability to pay? Maybe it is for insurance purposes.

These questions are rhetorical, but they should give you some ideas about what other questions you might ask.

:)

By such logic, nobody really owns their phones either, they were assembled in China, not by us

Or even own any cash money since it belongs to the government. It's illegal to burn money in many jurisdictions.

To the people who boldly advise the OP to stick it to the man, how many of you would keep that stance if they are the one facing the consequences?

I would seek professional legal advice.

Actually most people do not own their phones. The reason for this is that most cellular phones are locked down with DRM infected software. If one has an Android phone and roots it then one can take back ownership of what was rightfully one's own property in the first place.

Now when it comes to Bitcoin or course one can own Bitcoin, or to be technical "control the private keys that allow one to spend the Bitcoin on the blockchain". If the OP is interested in playing language semantics to obtain benefits for which he or she is not eligible due to net worth, the my suggestion is to get professional legal advice in the relevant jurisdiction. Frankly, I must give kudos to the Australian Government for asking this question in the first place. It show the proper recognition of Bitcoin and other crypto currencies as a legitimate asset and / or money.

Now, let's not get nuts. After all, nobody owns anything. Not really.

Often people die unexpectedly. And it can happen to anybody. So where is true ownership. You don't even own your own life.

:)

I was at the doctors office a while ago filling out of
the form and one of the questions was: do you
wear your seatbelt?   

I felt like giving the same answer.

Just write "non-assumpsit." That means you don't take any responsibility for your answer.   ;D

I concur! We should all be chastised for offering up an opinion counter that of yours and push to have the Aussie after brain surgery to seek the professional help of a lawyer that he'll have to pay for through the nose to see if he should check yes or no pertaining to if he has any bitcoins on a binding form that needs filling out due to his dire financial situation. Now, on top of all that, he's having difficulty breathing due to reading that last sentence. Question: Are we trying to kill each other here?

/s

This has been the best thread of the week. Minimalism, simple-ism, symantecs and non-assumpsit statements. It makes me feel young again. I love hippies ;D

i think if u lie you go to jail.  so i'd answer truthfully.

they even let me go when i told them i had 2g of meth (and i did ;))

I imagine  they're asking that question for finances.  Bitcoin made a lot of random millionaires and governments don't like paying welfare to people who can afford to pay for themselves.  I'm familiar with that woman who was banned and cut off from welfare in the states after winning $3 million in the lottery (she then lost all the money and tried to get back on welfare to no avail)

"Not at the moment" would seem like a good answer to that.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/07/nation/la-nn-na-lottery-winner-collects-welfare-20120307

Well my memory wasn't perfect but she won $1 million which was $500K after taxes.  Still that would had gotten her $20K-$30K a year above inflation at an investment fund like Vanguard and the principle would untouched.  She bought two houses with the money.

I used to watch all those lottery winner shows on TLC until they stopped making them.  A lot of these people won amounts under $5 million and were definitely living it up YOLO style.

One guy lost all his money buying some hotel and getting screwed over by his 'partner', and then spending the rest on houses and planes
One funnier example is one guy buying Medieval-Replica stuff, went bankrupt and then when he had his collection appraised it was discovered he got cheated by the dealers who used the lowest quality metals.

Really the lottery winner demographic is indicative of the general population, in that the 85% of the population doesn't understand money and would make as terrible decisions.  

If that was true then why Social Security Administration is asking their disability receptionist to have their disability evaluated every 5-7 years if their condition is permanent?!? SSA is getting their hopes up, thanks to Bono "someday everyone is gonna get cured and it's a win-win situation for rich people." If you get my gist here.

i think i cured my Disability after tripping on psilocybin a few times, but i have to wait 2-3 more years for them to evaluate me again.  but this time i'm not gonna show up addicted to Xanax

You had a fucking brain tumor removed? They removed the part of your hearing that keeps you from falling down when you walk? They expect you to recover? WTF! At this point the last thing I would be concerned with is some question on a government form.

Its really tricky because lets say you were a lesser experienced bitcoiner and lost your coins to a hack after saying yes to the gov they might be very suspicious of if you did get hacked.

The question seems rather redundant without vigorous bitcoin regulations in place.

In short you probably better just say what you own to be safe. 

I think you are right. If the OP has a lot of money in bitcoin (read: a high amount of assets) then there is no reason why the OP should need disability payments from the government. I am not sure about AUS, however I know in the US that disability recipients should not have more then $2,000 in assets, and they are likely trying to determine if the OP has similar levels of assets in crypto currencies

If you bought them from a Australian exchange which you have you id verified with your own cash that you deposited into the exchanges account from your bank account the government would be able to know if have bought bitcoins in the past.

but you could always say that you had them but no longer have them through a device failure, scam etc.
send your coins to a paperwallet(s) generated offline and hold.

If you need to cash out some at a later date, send the coins to a trusted friend to cash them out for you, or you could setup a exchange with a friend through a Australian exchange where by you deposit money into your account lets say $200. Then you would have your friend place an order to sell 200 dollars worth from your own stash of Bitcoins.
Then you would hit the order right after your friend places it giving your mate $200 dollars to hold for you. Right after that you sell the Bitcoin in your exchange account for $200 dollars then cash out.

Get your friend to cash out your $200 or close enough to minus exchange fees, cash it out at a atm and hand you the money.

To the government the could only see that you bought some bitcoins and then sold them shortly after preferably with a 1% gain to get your exchange money back.

buy your mate a beer  ;D

   
 

Strange. What proportion of Australians own bitcoins?
Are there other questions like do you own gold/silver/copper/any damn metal/...?

What form is this exactly, I doubt its on any forms such as these yet,


"Edit"

Well  I can answer that lol I found it

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/forms/sa369

page 15/18 and they say Cyber currency can't even get that right

That si goo for them. Governments that will realize it exist and adopt it fast and tax economy around BTC will profit most. Altho BTC will be decentralized when finished, there will still be centers of education of Bitcoin. Countries like Australia, can be on right track to become one.

Interesting, you don't need to tell that you own bitcoin. Since they don't recognize it as money.

Just tell them, "you have no idea what they're talking about, You don't know or own any bitcoin, and you also don't know anything about satoshi nakamoto or paper wallets" :D

 ;D kidding

just say "no"

Exactly. Plus they'll never ever know

This thread is concerning/disappointing.

All they are trying to determine is whether you have sufficient means to live without requiring a government benefit - it's not a bottomless pit of cash. Same as how much cash at bank do you have. i.e. Do you meet the eligibility criteria to receive a particular benefit. If you do not meet it, by having sufficient means, whether that be fiat, btc, artwork, precious metals, gems, real estate etc - then you shouldn't be applying for the benefit.

Australia has a high standard of living, with a high level public healthcare system, public education system, defence force, roads and infrastructure and so on - all of which has to be paid for....by the taxpayers.
As a tax paying Aussie, I would expect that if you hold sufficient means (btc included) then state same and become ineligible for the benefit.

If we all hid our wealth... well this great country we call Australia would not stay great for very long.

In that case, you could simply just say no, because it is anonymous. 8) 8)

1. Convert all your bitcoins into something else
2. [X] No
3. Convert back to bitcoins
4.  ???
5. Profit!  8) Clear conscience and all.

First of all I'm sorry to hear about your brain tumor.

Second of all; that's really interesting! I wonder what the consequences of answering "Yes I own 1000 Bitcoins" would be (big tax bill in the mail?)

We support Australians and have solidarity with you and your health but have no obligation to support the corrupt fictitious entity you call "Australia". Australia has repeatedly betrayed its people and we have no respect for its authority and neither should you.

Your patriotism towards your home country isn't going to be enough to save her as she is designed to fail and the only question now is how long will it take for that fetid carcass to decompose.

anyone writing waffle about how no one owns bitcoins and that they belong on the blockchain, blah blah waffle waffle..

a few things to point out.
1. by sounding smart the authorities will perceive that as you have intimate knowledge of bitcoins. thus start investigating your finances.

2. the whole word "ownership" is a grey area. such as a house, do you own a house, or does the mortgage company.. what about the bank balance sitting in a bank account and your access to it is just a plastic card with a pin number.

3. if you have ever linked your bank account to a bitcoin exchange (mtgox/coinbase/bitstamp, etc) you might aswell tick yes, as they can find these things out. especially how much you deposited into an exchange and using the average price of that deposit day, they can estimate holdings. even if you no longer have them.

Thank you for that. The actual question:

Seems straight-forward to me: estimate the value of your Bitcoin holdings in AUD. The "Amount owed" would be $0, and leave "Currency if not AUD" blank (since your estimate is in AUD).

They may re-evaluate your eligibility if it hits the news that the price of Bitcoin has reached the moon though.

The "control" thing brought up earlier may be important. If you have your Bitcoin held on an exchange, you don't control it. If the price goes up too fast, your exchange may be "hacked".

Edit: I am not sure how I would answer that question for unappraised collectibles :P

??? They would likely investigate every applicants finances, at least those who would otherwise qualify to have a legit disability
It isn't to meYou do. The mortgage company has a lien on the property for the amount of the mortgage however you are personally liable if anything happens on the property (for example if someone gets hurt in your house).You own this. It is your property
You really should not lie in the first place. If you are caught lying then you would have a serious risk of going to jail as you generally have to affirm under penalty of perjury that the information provided is correct.

Clarify this for me please....

Are you suggesting that we own this property and governments are committing theft against us when they collect taxes or freeze our funds?

Or do we not own this property but are merely custodians with obligations to our feudal lords under a "social contract" that we are forced to agree to whether or not we vote?

Thank You.

IMO this is evidence that the australian government is not launching some crusade to try to "kill" bitcoin but is rather trying to make sure that people who are applying for welfare actually qualify for welfare as you do not qualify if you have over 'x' AUD$ in assets.

I think the control issue is merely a technicality. If you are the lawful owner of an account on an exchange then you would own any bitcoin that is held by an exchange for that account, up until the point that the exchange starts to deny withdrawal requests for bitcoin.
If you have any collectibles you probably do not qualify for welfare. You can generally only have very few assets to qualify for welfare and any collectible is almost always worth something

I would answer: what is bitcoin? ;)

Playing devil's advocate:  What if he bought them on Coinbase.  Is the simple fact that he may have "moved" them out of the coinbase system to another address, sufficient to say "I no longer have them" ?

(applies only to USA people of course)

-B-

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future  ;D

These types of forms are not meant to detail out all the technicalities. They're not going to fully define what "ownership" actually means when it comes to crypto. As long as you understand what they're trying to get at, that's all that matters.

Just say the boating accident, as always  ;D

That was very clever, made me laugh

It is funny but serious. Ownership can only be defined as "knowing your private key". Sometimes I forget things. Sometimes, later on, I remember them again. Nobody can blame you for that. ;D

Conveniently selective memory

[/quote]

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future  ;D
[/quote]

That was very clever, made me laugh


[/quote]

It is funny but serious. Ownership can only be defined as "knowing your private key". Sometimes I forget things. Sometimes, later on, I remember them again. Nobody can blame you for that. ;D
[/quote]

Conveniently selective memory
[/quote]

Ha llike most politicians and ceo's have in front of a judge and jury

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future  ;D
[/quote]

That was very clever, made me laugh


[/quote]

It is funny but serious. Ownership can only be defined as "knowing your private key". Sometimes I forget things. Sometimes, later on, I remember them again. Nobody can blame you for that. ;D
[/quote]

Conveniently selective memory
[/quote]

Ha llike most politicians and ceo's have in front of a judge and jury
[/quote]

I was gonna say that I swear

Where do you guys think this disability money comes from?

It is from YOUR pocket, why are you encouraging people to fraudulently steal from you?

(And yeah, it is in australia but people will be doing this in your country to you)

Probably not. As is the case with fiat money, just because money is not in your bank account does not mean you do not have it (you either moved it somewhere else or spent it on other, non money-based assets - or services).

In other words if you moved your money out of your coinbase account then you would have either have control of the bitcoin at an other address or used the bitcoin to buy some other asset

The subconscient mind is a mystery...what can I do?

Forgetting the private key is disgraceful, more so since it was because of brain surgery. How you dare accusing him of fraud?

In my country the politicians are the ones stealing money from my pocket...the moral obligation is to not cooperate with their robbery.

The kind of activity/statement you are implying that should be made would be considered fraud by a reasonable person.

Also a person really does not "know" what their private key is, as in have it memorized, rather they have it stored on some kind of file, usually on their computer or other electronic storage device, making the argument that you "forgot" the priv key invalid

He didn't forget his private key, that is what people are suggesting he says he does.  I could comment about your reading comprehension but you probably would not understand me.

I encourage others to avoid participating in the scam of Fiat as much as possible with encouraging trading on the grey and black markets. BTC and barter are great tools to accomplish this.

With regards to welfare this is a somewhat complicated ethical dilemma as one should weigh the moral obligations to ones neighbor with balancing ones right to recoup earlier and ongoing stolen funds that were taken through violence or coercion. Additionally, there could be justification if someone actively bled the state for ethical reasons and than dispersed said wealth amongst his peers. The circumstance and judgment of whether or not the poster is right to receive welfare is unknown as more information would be needed to debate the ethics.

I'd just say NO, there is no real way for them to tell if I do or if I don't ;)

You don't get it, don't you? I think you are the one with impaired coprehension.

You don't know what he knows or he doesn't. If you know prove it or shut up.

For proof scroll up, I can only go on what he says, and he did not say he forgot his private key.

Others have said he should, he has said "Sometimes I forget things. Sometimes, later on, I remember them again. Nobody can blame you for that. Grin " that infers the opposite (even if it were true, he could just write it down when he remembers).

If this is true and such form exists, its very silly. If the person aswers No, how would someone be able to check if he is telling the truth?

They'll make them pinky promise

Why don't you create a brainwallet, and send the funds into that wallet. Then archive your old address.

Brilliant plan

Being sarcastic?  ???

I think this is pretty clear cut. If, he in any ways controls any bitcoin then he should say that he does own bitcoin and disclose the value. If he does anything other then this then he is outright lying and is effectively stealing from other taxpayers

Question: Do you own any bitcoin?
Answer: I used to, but lost it all playing dice games.

lol, that's a great answer.

No, I'm being honest

Hope so ;)

It doesn't really matter about what I say on the form now, it is completely legal for the Australia Secret Police to enter my house unannounced, install a bitcoin wallet on my computer, notify the welfare authorities, and if I tell anyone what happened I could face 10 years in jail.


edit. They could also shoot me and all my family and they can't be prosecuted and any journalist that reports on it can also receive 10 years in jail

You misspelled America

LOL - that's a good one.

If you disclose any wallets, they will most certainly later ask you to prove the source of the funds was not due to money laundering. Guilty until proven innocent.

This is not true. And even if they did install a wallet on your computer it would not cause you to own any bitcoin because a wallet is just something that keeps track of your bitcoin not something that you can only have if you own bitcoin.

Just like you can have a traditional wallet that you keep in you pocket without any cash in it, you can have a bitcoin wallet without any bitcoin in it. There is a very good reason as to why you would want this - you would be helping secure the network by relying transactions of other nodes

Quit denying it. Stockholm Syndrome

there is no real way for them to know you own any unless u withdraw them to your bank where they can trace it

Well if Bitcoin only has 500K-2M users then considering Australia's population maybe only up to 10,000.

Which makes the question more perplexing because most people who read that form will be like: "Bitcoin what?" when like 40% of households in Australia are claiming some kind of government benefit.

If they had a warrant to monitor your ISP account and you were not using a VPN (or if you were and they also had a warrant to monitor your VPN account) then they could potentially see when you would push a TX to the network. Or if you were to order a physical good to be shipped to your house and pay in bitcoin then your address and name would be linked to the fact that you at one point owned bitcoin

pfft... I would rather governments give the money they steal from other people through their violent extortion tactics they call taxation to other poor people instead of give it to their gangster friends in the military industrial complex  :P

just sayin  ::)

That's true, or they can keylog you like the Syrian government did with Darkcomet RAT

If you are a holder, then keep holding and don't worry about the government.  :)

That wouldn't be a great idea if the tax man comes to your house and asks for all your computer password & checks all your browsing history & asks for your bitcointalk forum username, would it?  ;D

They can't really ask for this information (well they can, but you have the right to decline to give them this information).

A better way for the government to find out you are hiding assets is to look at what you are spending money on. If you are spending more then what your income/assets would support they will know you are hiding something

I would just declare them since in 9 out of 10 cases it's pretty easy for them to find out anyway. I declared mine to centrelink when the price went ballistic last year & also quizzed them a few times on the phone and in person. They don't want to know your address/es etc, just the current value, and you're expected to update that value each time your net btc worth goes up a few grand or so - no different to if the value of anything else you owned rose, nor the expectation that you tell them how much your general assets are worth when you apply for payments in the first place. You're allowed several hundred $k of assets before not being eligible for payments, so it's no huge deal imo. If you hold more than that, you should not be on welfare anyway.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/assets/ (see table at bottom of page for asset limits)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Exactly. There is no real reason for you to need to be applying for any kind of disability in the first place in the event that you have any meaningful amount of bitcoin under your control

https://www.ato.gov.au/general/gen/tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-australia---specifically-bitcoin/




how do they find them out if my bitcoins are in no way purchased through a bank account. e.g. bought bitcoins from some guy on localbitcoins, how do they know i own it etc etc etc.

of course they can match the blockchain to a wallet that comes from my IP address, but can they match it to me or an exchange?

Is there any way they can link it to you? I heard about a study group in Luxembourg which was able to. Is that true?

They can attempt to link any bitcoin that you own to you when you either buy or sell it. If the OP is applying for disability then he should not have a lot of assets (why would he have assets if he is getting handouts from the government) and as a result if he were to have a spike in spending then it would be obvious when he sells

This is none of there damn business!

It's just disgusting. The government has become so invasive of our privacy that it makes me throw up.

It's none of their fucking business.

They stomp on privacy everywhere they can, they want to govern everything...

is the field is compulsory to fillup if not you can leave it with answering them
or just say no and how they will track if you have

Haha you dont know statists very well then.

If he rejects them they will harass him and surveil him, because he dared to say "gtfo" to the government.

I think he just needs to write whatever he wants there, if he will pax tax on it then better say yes because they will find out, but if he doesnt pay tax then they probably have no way to find out...