Australian Govt. form asks if I own any Bitcoin of Cryptocurrency

[awesome31312]

If you disclose any wallets, they will most certainly later ask you to prove the source of the funds was not due to money laundering. Guilty until proven innocent.

[BTCmoons]

It doesn't really matter about what I say on the form now, it is completely legal for the Australia Secret Police to enter my house unannounced, install a bitcoin wallet on my computer, notify the welfare authorities, and if I tell anyone what happened I could face 10 years in jail.


edit. They could also shoot me and all my family and they can't be prosecuted and any journalist that reports on it can also receive 10 years in jail

This is not true. And even if they did install a wallet on your computer it would not cause you to own any bitcoin because a wallet is just something that keeps track of your bitcoin not something that you can only have if you own bitcoin.

Just like you can have a traditional wallet that you keep in you pocket without any cash in it, you can have a bitcoin wallet without any bitcoin in it. There is a very good reason as to why you would want this - you would be helping secure the network by relying transactions of other nodes

[awesome31312]

It doesn't really matter about what I say on the form now, it is completely legal for the Australia Secret Police to enter my house unannounced, install a bitcoin wallet on my computer, notify the welfare authorities, and if I tell anyone what happened I could face 10 years in jail.


edit. They could also shoot me and all my family and they can't be prosecuted and any journalist that reports on it can also receive 10 years in jail

This is not true. And even if they did install a wallet on your computer it would not cause you to own any bitcoin because a wallet is just something that keeps track of your bitcoin not something that you can only have if you own bitcoin.

Just like you can have a traditional wallet that you keep in you pocket without any cash in it, you can have a bitcoin wallet without any bitcoin in it. There is a very good reason as to why you would want this - you would be helping secure the network by relying transactions of other nodes

Quit denying it. Stockholm Syndrome

[malaimult]

there is no real way for them to know you own any unless u withdraw them to your bank where they can trace it

[TaunSew]

Strange. What proportion of Australians own bitcoins?
Are there other questions like do you own gold/silver/copper/any damn metal/...?

Well if Bitcoin only has 500K-2M users then considering Australia's population maybe only up to 10,000.

Which makes the question more perplexing because most people who read that form will be like: "Bitcoin what?" when like 40% of households in Australia are claiming some kind of government benefit.

[Connor936]

there is no real way for them to know you own any unless u withdraw them to your bank where they can trace it

If they had a warrant to monitor your ISP account and you were not using a VPN (or if you were and they also had a warrant to monitor your VPN account) then they could potentially see when you would push a TX to the network. Or if you were to order a physical good to be shipped to your house and pay in bitcoin then your address and name would be linked to the fact that you at one point owned bitcoin

[DigitalGangster]

Where do you guys think this disability money comes from?

It is from YOUR pocket, why are you encouraging people to fraudulently steal from you?

(And yeah, it is in australia but people will be doing this in your country to you)

pfft... I would rather governments give the money they steal from other people through their violent extortion tactics they call taxation to other poor people instead of give it to their gangster friends in the military industrial complex 

just sayin 

[awesome31312]

there is no real way for them to know you own any unless u withdraw them to your bank where they can trace it

That's true, or they can keylog you like the Syrian government did with Darkcomet RAT

[jjacob]

there is no real way for them to know you own any unless u withdraw them to your bank where they can trace it

If they had a warrant to monitor your ISP account and you were not using a VPN (or if you were and they also had a warrant to monitor your VPN account) then they could potentially see when you would push a TX to the network. Or if you were to order a physical good to be shipped to your house and pay in bitcoin then your address and name would be linked to the fact that you at one point owned bitcoin

If you are a holder, then keep holding and don't worry about the government. 

[monnecon]

there is no real way for them to know you own any unless u withdraw them to your bank where they can trace it

If they had a warrant to monitor your ISP account and you were not using a VPN (or if you were and they also had a warrant to monitor your VPN account) then they could potentially see when you would push a TX to the network. Or if you were to order a physical good to be shipped to your house and pay in bitcoin then your address and name would be linked to the fact that you at one point owned bitcoin

If you are a holder, then keep holding and don't worry about the government. 

That wouldn't be a great idea if the tax man comes to your house and asks for all your computer password & checks all your browsing history & asks for your bitcointalk forum username, would it? 

[thew3apon]

there is no real way for them to know you own any unless u withdraw them to your bank where they can trace it

If they had a warrant to monitor your ISP account and you were not using a VPN (or if you were and they also had a warrant to monitor your VPN account) then they could potentially see when you would push a TX to the network. Or if you were to order a physical good to be shipped to your house and pay in bitcoin then your address and name would be linked to the fact that you at one point owned bitcoin

If you are a holder, then keep holding and don't worry about the government. 

That wouldn't be a great idea if the tax man comes to your house and asks for all your computer password & checks all your browsing history & asks for your bitcointalk forum username, would it? 

They can't really ask for this information (well they can, but you have the right to decline to give them this information).

A better way for the government to find out you are hiding assets is to look at what you are spending money on. If you are spending more then what your income/assets would support they will know you are hiding something

[carpetbagger]

I recently had a brain tumor removed and I had my right side Balance hearing mechanics removed, I am applying for disability until i recover.

Filling out the form I came across the question "Do you own any bitcoin or cryptocurrency"

Comments?

I would just declare them since in 9 out of 10 cases it's pretty easy for them to find out anyway. I declared mine to centrelink when the price went ballistic last year & also quizzed them a few times on the phone and in person. They don't want to know your address/es etc, just the current value, and you're expected to update that value each time your net btc worth goes up a few grand or so - no different to if the value of anything else you owned rose, nor the expectation that you tell them how much your general assets are worth when you apply for payments in the first place. You're allowed several hundred $k of assets before not being eligible for payments, so it's no huge deal imo. If you hold more than that, you should not be on welfare anyway.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/assets/ (see table at bottom of page for asset limits)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

[ScreamnShout]

I recently had a brain tumor removed and I had my right side Balance hearing mechanics removed, I am applying for disability until i recover.

Filling out the form I came across the question "Do you own any bitcoin or cryptocurrency"

Comments?

I would just declare them since in 9 out of 10 cases it's pretty easy for them to find out anyway. I declared mine to centrelink when the price went ballistic last year & also quizzed them a few times on the phone and in person. They don't want to know your address/es etc, just the current value, and you're expected to update that value each time your net btc worth goes up a few grand or so - no different to if the value of anything else you owned rose, nor the expectation that you tell them how much your general assets are worth when you apply for payments in the first place. You're allowed several hundred $k of assets before not being eligible for payments, so it's no huge deal imo. If you hold more than that, you should not be on welfare anyway.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/assets/ (see table at bottom of page for asset limits)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Exactly. There is no real reason for you to need to be applying for any kind of disability in the first place in the event that you have any meaningful amount of bitcoin under your control

[mymenace]

https://www.ato.gov.au/general/gen/tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-australia---specifically-bitcoin/

Comments?

I would just declare them since in 9 out of 10 cases it's pretty easy for them to find out anyway.

how do they find them out if my bitcoins are in no way purchased through a bank account. e.g. bought bitcoins from some guy on localbitcoins, how do they know i own it etc etc etc.

of course they can match the blockchain to a wallet that comes from my IP address, but can they match it to me or an exchange?

[Cipa]

Is there any way they can link it to you? I heard about a study group in Luxembourg which was able to. Is that true?

[ivonna]

How could they even prove you have them or not? its ridiculous. Just say no, easier.

They can attempt to link any bitcoin that you own to you when you either buy or sell it. If the OP is applying for disability then he should not have a lot of assets (why would he have assets if he is getting handouts from the government) and as a result if he were to have a spike in spending then it would be obvious when he sells

[seabass1985]

This is none of there damn business!

[GreenStox]

I recently had a brain tumor removed and I had my right side Balance hearing mechanics removed, I am applying for disability until i recover.

Filling out the form I came across the question "Do you own any bitcoin or cryptocurrency"

Comments?

It's just disgusting. The government has become so invasive of our privacy that it makes me throw up.

It's none of their fucking business.

They stomp on privacy everywhere they can, they want to govern everything...

[moko666]

is the field is compulsory to fillup if not you can leave it with answering them
or just say no and how they will track if you have

[GreenStox]

is the field is compulsory to fillup if not you can leave it with answering them
or just say no and how they will track if you have

Haha you dont know statists very well then.

If he rejects them they will harass him and surveil him, because he dared to say "gtfo" to the government.

I think he just needs to write whatever he wants there, if he will pax tax on it then better say yes because they will find out, but if he doesnt pay tax then they probably have no way to find out...