Bitcoin Forum

I say his victim should decide the punishment.

Agreed, just as long as his victim is human and can show conclusive evidence.

I am sure his victim will step forward very soon.

Freeeeeeeeeeeeedom
(Braveheart music in background)

He knew what he was doing, he got caught, now he has to roll with it.

He is no less than a serious drug dealer.  society is his victim and they will decide his punishment.  Only fools think bitcoin is a means to traverse laws.  Crime is crime.  He is going down BIG TIME!  He is no pioneer of anything.

he should get no punishment for Silk Road but didn't he try to have someone killed?

Says the agencies who have repeatedly lied to the public. Lets wait for the evidence to be presented first, before we accuse someone who advocated the non -aggression principle and wouldn't allow guns to be sold within his marketplace.

What is pioneer of Freedom?

None of us have enough accurate information or evidence to make an 'informed' decision.


This situation hurt the bitcoin community on a mainstream level. This I know.

5 years may be good! Making millions getting commissions by drug dealers  destroying btc reputation is not a good thing for me!
Just my personal opinion!

 noun
1.
a person who is among those who first enter or settle a region, thus opening it for occupation and development by others.

Ross Ulbricht should be freed and awarded with Ig Nobel Prize (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel_Prize).

Primates do not belong in cages. Non-violent primates definitely do not ever belong in cages.

Violent primates belong in compassionate but secure mental rehabilitation facilities.

If he is guilty of the crimes he is accused of, he should be punished according to the severity of his crimes.

Agree, lets see the evidence.

But just because he advocated those things doesn't mean
he couldn't have taken to desperate measures during desperate times.

Would these violent primates be able to walk off the grounds of these secure mental rehabilitation facilities whenever they so desired?

If not, then I don't care what pretty euphemism you use to salve your conscience - your 'compassionate but secure mental health rehabilitation facility' is a damned cage.

Satoshi thought the Silk Market was bad for Bitcoin and so do I. 

Yes, it gave it a big boost early on in transactions and use.  But that doesn't justify it to me. 

Selling weed is one thing, but offering hits on people is another.  Ross allegedly paid to have people killed. 

He is not a good representative of the Bitcoin community and I don't think we should support him. 

He is not a pioneer of Freedom.  What kind of pioneer of freedom pays to have 6 people killed that disagree with them?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/11/21/alleged-silk-road-ross-ulbricht-creator-now-accused-of-six-murder-for-hires-denied-bail/

If they do exist, they may be unknown/anonymous as they
were doing dirty deeds themselves on the silk road.

Still, if there's no hard proof, he should be acquitted.

... and Canadian authorities deny such events. Perhaps Ulbrict was just claiming the false past hits as an attempt to scare would be attackers and the one the FBI orchestrated never took place but was rationalized because they assumed his claims were real but had no evidence? Perhaps he is a hypocrite and did make those hits ? Perhaps, everything the FBI is made up?

The problem is the evidence they will provide will certainly have holes as it already has revealed either because of sloppy investigating, parallel constructionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction), or national security reasons and probably a bit of all three.

Exactly, drug use is merely a reflection of society and our humanity. Violence does not address its underlying reasons and only exacerbates it. What we need if more darkmarkets providing safer drugs to users and working with organizations like these:   http://www.dancesafe.org/  to reduce harm.

I have a number of problems with this entire statement. The list of logical fallacies and bald assertions alone would take twenty pages to illustrate.

But I'll start with the basic. Society has as much relevance to reality as a juridical person. There is no such thing. It's a statistical construct, nothing more and nothing less. It has been built into the secular god of the 20th and 21st century, but blind faith has never sat well with me. As an axiom, it's far too flawed to withstand scrutiny.

But lets assume, for the sake of alleviating your cognitive dissonance, that you are correct. By this logic, all employees or Walgreens or Osco (to name a couple well knowns) should be locked in a cage. They willfully, knowingly, and often deceptively market dangerous drugs to an unususpecting populace. The ONLY difference between the licensed pharmacist and the "street pharmacist" that is worthy of discussion is the license.

The violence, which I'm sure will pop into your head as a "refutation" is a direct result of official prohibition (which in itself has no justification under the laws of the United States of America as embodied by it's constitution) and official monopoly (the very license that makes the distinction).

One can no more have a debt to society than they can to santa clause.

When they determine how many gang killings were avoided because people could buy drugs online instead of involving gangs he will be given a medal for saving lives.

The government does not need to show the evidence until it goes to trial. If he decides to take some kind of a plea deal then it will not need to show evidence. I think this is a very broken way of doing things but it is how our current criminal system works

Interesting choice of words :D

I've no idea how the US justice system works (or otherwise), nor am I clued up with the extent of his alleged crimes so can't say for sure.

Is it not one of those things that you can buy your way out of, that's how a lot of 'justice' systems seem to work.

Yes, but they seized his coins.

He rolled the dice and got busted.  Use multisig next time.

He should be punished for his stupidity

Lmao compassionate? You think serial killers, murderers or kiddie rapists belong in Club Fed where they can be "rehabilitated"?

Locking in a cage is merely cruel. If they don't understand what they did is wrong, they are too dangerous to be allowed to live. If they do understand what they did was wrong, they are too dangerous to live. Which has nothing to do with the current case, save that a great many cops fall into the latter category.

And you're prepared to immediately kill a convicted serial rapist even if the evidence is shoddy? God knows how many death row inmates have been freed via the Innocence Project.

So it is one of those things that you can buy your way out of?

happens all the time

http://www.urbancusp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SimsponGlove__130320200103-275x297.jpg

Interesting and sad chooise or words :P



well thats another history more important than the current one XD

Nope. Nor did I imply that. Shoddy evidence calls for acquital. The current court system is without merit. In any nation I've taken the time to look at. I will not say it's broken, because the deeper you look the more it appears injustice and spreading fear in the general populace IS it's purpose.

*sigh*

Ok, coppertop, listen up.

First "society" does NOTHING. It's a statistical construct, and the modern god.

Second, why should we perpetuate a system that penalizes people for voluntary choices, then try to rescue them from their choices? All of these "help" programs are exacerbating the problems. Would it not be better to educate people in things that actually matter, rather than to be nice little drones or dropouts? This prison we live in has some pretty strong invisible bars.

Third, if you endorse liberty you DO NOT endorse taxes.

There are more sides than "conservative" and "liberal" which are just faces on the same devalued coin.

I say give him 5 years just to make a point. But I'm pretty sure the case will be dismissed since the feds unlawfully hacked into the server.

Ok, we live without society in a village without laws or taxes. We told her not to do it but she did anyway. Should we kill her retarted kid instead of supporting it and letting it become a burden on our villages food supply?

Law and rules can and do exist with or without the state. These laws may be social or natural, even without community guidelines or politics.
While we cannot eliminate drug addicts we can certainly reduce them by raising our standard of living and reducing violence and abuse (especially against children).
This will allow us merely to reduce heroin/meth addicts. The next step is prevention. Legalized drug use with needle exchange programs (private non-profit )to reduce disease and offer free birth control(preferably something like depo-provera where the junky doesn't need to remember taking the pill). OK , now much less incidents , but there will always be some crazy bitch , perhaps schizophrenic, perhaps she wants a child, who knows, but it will happen... what's next? After she has the child the community should monitor her and non-profits should be free to help her and the child or not, and offer to find a family who wishes to adopt a child if the junky is being grossly negligent or is tired of the responsibility. None of this needs to involve welfare , taxes, or forcing you to be involved. There are plenty of people like myself who understand the implications of the situation and are willing to donate time and money to prevent such societal problems.
 

This was an argument that would be said prior to SR being shut down. It was generally considered that buying drugs over the internet was much safer then buying drugs on the street. SR probably did save lives of people who would have died in drug deals gone wrong.

There were also at least two sets of murders that Ross allegedly attempted to pay for. If this is true then SR is not all that different from any other drug gang. The sellers on SR would also have access to the address of their buyers so they could potentially do bad things to their buyer in the event that something were to go wrong in the sale.

You also have the fact that SR made it much easier to get addicted to drugs and made it easier for addictions to get worse both of which are things that our public policy tries to prevent

I love theoretical debates about perfect societies but Ross is creating junkies right now. What do we do immediately?

No one is suggesting a perfect society is attainable over even something that we want to achieve. I am involved in different non profits to fight against these problems. Do you need me to create a list of things you can help with?


This is just silly. Perhaps the silk road made it easier to get a greater choice of addictive drugs , but if someone wants to get high on something addictive they are going to do so with or without the silk road with a greater amount of ease than using the silk road.


How is two hypothetical murders anywhere near the violence per capita levels of street hustling with violent gangs and dangerous police?

I believe that a mild punishment for Ross Ulbricht will not accomplish anything. He can simply leave prison, learn from his mistakes and perfect the marketplace. Nonprofits are great but they don't eliminate the problem any more than they eliminate homelessness. The legal system can't solve the "dangerous" drug problem any more than it can stop homelessness. The drug war is a joke and isn't stopping the problem but it at least the fear of being caught might be stopping a few teenaged girls from becoming junkie moms. With SR there was no fear. You could order not just pot but deadly drugs like you were buying socks off of Amazon. I understand that we need to get involved to stop these problems and I plan to get involved any time my daughters boyfriend has her try hard drugs. Some of these girls don't have family to help them and don't know about the nonprofits that can help. They only know they love and trust their boyfriend and he loves heroin. It may surprise you to learn that I support legalized recreational marijuana and I vote for it every time it's on the ballot.

Well , I agree with many of your points and the "war" on drugs needs to be fought with families , communities , and non profits all working together. I don't agree that buying off the silk road is easier than getting drugs off the street however. If you are a teenage girl, perverts are making it really easy by inviting girls over to party or just hanging out with teenage girls and offering them free drugs. When you buy drugs on the silk road you have to know how to buy and use bitcoin, you have to know how to use Tor, and you have to run a risk of your parents noticing the package filled with drugs being shipped in. Perhaps , a few teenagers decided to buy the drugs directly rather than get them from the creepy pervert that is going to rape them.... good.

The larger problem is the fact that many families have both parents working full time jobs where they cannot properly raise their children.

In the end none of our opinions matter as technology will ultimately decide what we need to focus on in combating addiction in society. OpenBazaar and Darkmarket projects will make enforcement tedious and extremely difficult. Buying drugs online will get much easier and no political policy will prevent this. We need to deal with it and combat societies problems by being better neighbors and parents instead.

I came down harsh because the name you use would indicate some degree of thought outside of the left/right  false dichotomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification). My response would have been the same as the above, but he covered it.

However, to answer your latest, I would hope that people who wish to make positive changes would realize that you cannot change the system this instant. One of the problems with modern communities is no ability to delay gratification. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification) Changing an entrenched paradigm overnight only comes about by it's sudden and utter collapse. Which is not an unlikely outcome, but it is also undesirable. Instead, the anarchist who actually wishes to implement his theories works to educate and remove the blinders that this paradigm has put upon them. There have been mulitple forms of governance over the ages, and many of them have done better at regulating the lower end of social interaction than our sociofascist pseudodemocracy. I would in fact argue that monarchy is a better form of governance, because with a well meaning king, people are helped, and with the usual kind, one man's reach is not so great. Republics, while giving a greater degree of power to the people at large, suffer from the same vulnerability as the block chain. The dreaded 51% attack.

But the idea has been extremely well marketed with more logical fallacies, half truths, and pure, unadulterated bullshit than any other form of government. This leads people to believe that it can't be any better than this. Especially the young who've never experienced anything else. I don't have that bias any more, unfortunately. I have watched this Republic devolve into the current nightmare in a very short period of time. The more the "tax supported" solutions are implemented, the more they are "needed". When people were self reliant AS AN AXIOM of how to live, there was far less addiction, dereliction, and poverty. By a lot. Even back 20 years ago you did not have the level of sheer stupidity that we have now in the United States. The masses have bought into the big mother fallacy to the point that they believe that a village can raise something other than a village idiot, and that parents are disposable.

Changing those attitudes took generations, and will probably take generations to repeal. When striving for a higher ideal, unless you are that village idiot, you accept that it's a lifelong work. You try to point out how things might be done better by small communities with decentralized leadership. You try to point out how the rule of law from a distant citadel is incapable of solving the problems it creates, and you back it up with a large body of work and evidence in the often vain hope that people will listen. Then, if you're lucky, after a decade or so, thinking people start to listen, learn, and spread the word. But the resistance to change, even when the current paradigm is a betrayal of humanity, is immense and ongoing.

For the immediate, you try to reduce your exposure and try to teach those you know how to be self reliant and well educated on what is going on. Also, if you are an anarchist, you teach people how to legally exploit the system while not being dependent on it, as the seeds of the system's destruction are the very things you complain of.

This^^^ is how the world should be, but sadly Ross is in serious trouble.
I don't think the death penalty is coming for him, but probably a very long prison term.

I can't say I disagree with either one of you. When I was a young single guy in college I could have been either one of you. My attitudes changed when I became a father. I made the extreme post showing the photos because I want people to understand this is a real issue not a hypothetical one. Is the girl in the photo just some knocked up stupid bitch that let her boyfriend hook her on drugs or is she someone's daughter or sister in trouble? Perspective is everything. It's easy to want freedom for this drug dealer (or facilitator) if his release won't effect you personally. I know jailing this guy is like floating in a sea of shit and reaching over the side of the boat to pick up one turd. It seems stupid until you realize that all you can do is flush one turd at a time.

Young people don't always make the best decisions. Mainly because they're immortal. I know because I was immortal until I was about 30. I don't know how to get my kids to 30 without being overprotective. Many times the legal system overprotects people even when it can't really solve the problems. But some people think they're immortal or their just stupid and need protection. Is it the best system? Definately not. Is it a good system? Definately not but it's the only tool I have to work with today.

I see your point. For the record, I'm a few weeks shy of 46. I also have two kids and a third on the way. I still believe as strongly as I stated above, and yes, this is the system we're currently stuck with. But it needs to go, and punishing DPR for, frankly, doing the same thing that any pharmacist is doing, does not help this nebulous "society" nor serve to protect anyone. The simple fact of the matter is that getting drugs is ridculously easy, no matter the venue, and that the silk road and similar sites existed before bitcoin, and will continue. I agree with the guys who say it probably prevented more violence than it caused trouble.

Drugs get a lot of blame. Drugs,, like guns, knives, and blunt instruments are neutral. They do nothing on their own. You can't have a war on drugs, cuz they won't fight back. The war on drugs is a war on people. I do not advocate the legalization of some drugs, we already have that. In fact, the two most deadly are available in most convenience stores. I advocate and end to ALL criminalization of personal behaviours. I know whence I speak, as I've know a lotof addicts. Most who do want help don't seek it, because they are afraid of the consequence of the law. This is counterproductive.

It also leads to massive corruption and a narrowing of focus by so called law enforcement agencies. When a drug bust carries more time than capital murder, which is often the case, you know that the system is useless. I don't have any short term solutions, other than immediate repeal of all criminal penalties for the sale and possession of drugs. That one thing would reduce the violence, stigma, and danger by so much that the rest would seem a small problem. Addicts would be able to seek help without fear. People who used and were personally responsible (in my experience, the vast majority of drug users) don't run the danger of getting shot or getting a vein full of Drano. It's the only short term solution that makes any sort of sense, and the evidence of it's success lies in Holland.

This is very true. It is also an example of how "entry level" drugs can get people hooked on being "high" and to be in search for stronger and stronger highs which will lead to people wanting to try harder and harder drugs until they are not able to control their addiction and it is a serious problem

New article on Coindesk:
http://www.coindesk.com/ross-ulbricht-silk-road-trial-january/

walkin' in the cold.  just keep on flyin..

This really is too bad. I was planning on following the trial of Ross next month, I even took off a week from work to be able to pay more attention to it.

I am not sure if I think he should be found guilty or not. He does make a good point about SR only providing a forum that people can "meet" at in order to buy and sell goods, also there were some legal goods that were for sale on the site. On the other hand SR clearly violated the spirit of many laws and I am not sure the spirit of the laws that protect sites like eBay would protect SR (I am less certain about the letter of such laws).

Regardless of what happens I think it will be very interesting to see how this case plays out

So you say he is first one that thinks Freedom is something worth of fight for?  Billions and billions of people that was born on earth in 100000 years were just slaves?

The difference between Ross and a pharmacist is that a pharmacist is simply following the instructions of someone who took an oath look after the medical interests of the patients they see while ross was looking after the interests of drug dealers who only wanted to make money and were not looking after the interests of their customers (other then the fact that they would get a good "high"

So, quantitatively, no difference at all. Just a different market demographic.

Also, pharmacists and doctors both are more often looking after the interest of their actual customers (the insurance companies) than their patients. It's not general, but it is wide spread. By your argument, a "street pharmacist" is by far the more honorable of the two, as they are neither using the Nuremberg defence or actively suppressing the true effects of their product.

if he is a victim of the media twisting facts, then he should be set free from all charges, it should be investigated with truth, so that we can determine which is completely wrong or completely innocent, I hope the judge can determine punishment in accordance with the mistake, if indeed he was wrong ...  8)

A doctor swore to look after the best interests of their patients. The insurance company does pay the bill to the doctor however the insurance is contractually obligated to do so when the patient incurs these charges. A doctor could lose his license to practice medicine if he does something that is not in the best interest of his patient. The pharmacist is only following the directions of a doctor.

A drug dealer on the other hand runs a business that gets people to be repeat customers by getting them addicted to drugs. They will do things to prevent them from kicking their addiction (for example by offering free/discounted drugs when someone cannot pay).

So drug dealers are pretty close to doctors then? That's kind of what FattyMcButterpants(lol) said, isn't it? I know my Dr. gives me free samples of drugs to try out before I buy them. He usually doesn't give me free samples of heroin or morphine though.

Look. Standard law is that a person is allowed to face his accuser. More standard law is that there must be harm or damage that can be proved to be done by the accused.

If Ross stands as a man, and requires his accuser come forward and prove the damage or harm done with affidavit verified proof, from the witness stand, they better have such.

If Ross does these 5 things he will go free if they don't have the verified witness:

1. Stand as a man;
2. Require his accuser come forward (not be represented, but come in person);
3. Require his accuser verify/validate by affidavit, from the witness stand that there is harm or damage done;
4. Require his accuser reveal the harm or damage, and how it was done by Ross;
5. Require his accuser have a verifying witness to all that is stated in the accusation affidavit.

This is standard American, Canadian and British law.

If there are witnesses, then he must pay according to the harm or damage he did. Otherwise not. If he goes free, he can sue for the bitcoins back, along with hardship loss, and litigation fee damages.

:)

EDIT: But he can't do this if he doesn't know that he can, or if he doesn't know the way to do it. Do you think his attorneys will reveal it to him?

A doctor will only allow you to "try" a free sample if a drug would be medically beneficial to you and will generally only give you a sample prior to you filling a prescription, a drug dealer on the other hand will cut you a break financially if you cannot pay for your drugs in order to prevent you from kicking your addiction via being unable to pay (and be unable to use) their drugs.

I am saying they are very different kinds of people

Poll does not make any sense. I think he will get about 10 years.

Free Ross of course!  And donate here http://freeross.org/

If there is any good news that has come out of this case so far it is that the irrationality of the government's side is being exposed.  The Judge has to do some mental gymnastics to try to think up reasons for not dismissing the case even though the FBI clearly broke the law during the investigation.  I'm still holding out hope that reason will win the day. 

This is a very unusual statement that typically doesn't reflect reality. Your friendly pot dealer may let you borrow some marijuana because he is being nice, but any dealer selling cocaine, meth, or heroin doesn't need to promote or use creative marketing tricks to attract and maintain users. The drugs sell themselves and all they are concerned about is delivering it as efficiently as possible with the least amount of risk to themselves. Is there a ethical difference between someone that sells marijuana and dangerous and addictive drugs? Certainly. Is this a different level of moral responsibility than someone who is trying to maintain a neutral marketplace of drugs where people have the liberty to make poor decisions. Absolutely. Are there legitimate reasons why people need to have the right to buy these dangerous drugs.? Certainly.

Although I voted for the 5 years option (for sloppiness  ;)), it seems DPR should be given a medal for preventing criminal violence:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/silk-road-prevented-criminal-violence/

I am not sure about a medal, but I do agree that he should be given some credit for selling drugs in a non-violent way (except for the contract killings of course). The drug deals were more or less all done in non-violent ways while traditional "street" deals are often the cause of robberies, assaults, and murder. 

15 years and parole in 5

It should be thrown out though I hope.

There are a lot of facts/circumstances about the case that could get it (or a large portion of government evidence) to be thrown out on appeal.

One notable issue is that the judge denied the defense's motion to suppress evidence from the SR1 server in iceland because the government did not have a warrant on the basis that Ross did not claim ownership of the server, even though if he did claim such a fact it could not have been used against him in court, but could be used to impeach his testimony in the event he were to testify.

Hurray!

Great news:
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113433/ross-ulbricht-found-guilty-on-all-charges

I'm sure it's already been mentioned but pioneers of freedom don't try murder others. If it wasn't for that he would have my support but he doesn't have anyone else to blame but himself for this.

This guy created a market for illegal activity to be conducted. If you believe he's a "pioneer of freedom" then you also must agree that the person that organizes sex trafficking of children is a pioneer of freedom.

I want to hear some reasons why this guy is a "pioneer of freedom"...

I am unimpressed with him, but your first sentence and your second are logically contradictory. Illegal and immoral are NOT equivalent. Everything the Nazi regime did to the Jews and other "undesirables" was legal. Those who helped them escape were engaging in illegal activities.
Use of drugs is NOT illegal in the United States, regardless of what the politicians have decreed. The Constitution of the United States, while frequently ignored, is their only claim to legitimacy, and it DOES NOT authorize them to regulate or ban drugs. This would require an amendment, as the Volstead act did. They are unwilling to go there, because they know (and knew) exactly what these edicts will do and have done to society. In this sense, I do believe that the Silk Road was a frontier for freedom, in that it took away a great deal of violence and uncertainty in the black markets that the DEA and it's predecessors deliberately and cynically foisted on the world.

Government people (not all of them, maybe not the majority of them) under their disguise as government people, do way more propagating of evil than Ross could ever even think of.

The government sees to it that millions of innocent people in other countries are murdered, using as the excuse, "They got in the way when we were after some bad guys." Killing off innocent people in the name of hunting down bad guys is completely wrong.

In America, Canada and the U.K., the law is, let your accuser get on the stand and validate that you did wrong through oath or affirmation, speaking it into the record. Wrong doing doesn't include breaking some Law Code of the government except if you have a signed contract to obey that Law Code. Wrongdoing only includes harming a person with actual harm, damaging a person's property with actual damage, or breaking a signed contract where you have explicitly agreed to the terms of the contract.

Millions of Americans are in jail in America simply because they unwittingly and unknowingly made a contract with government when, at their court trial, they affirmed that they were being represented by someone else (usually an attorney) or when they represented themselves. They did no wrong. They simply, accidentally, unknowingly, made a contract. They didn't even know that they made a contract. How can you see that they made a contract by being represented? You can see it in the question, "Why do I need representation? I am present!"

It's a trick, folks. It's a big trick perpetrated by government. When the courts try you under the representation contract, they find you guilty according to their rules, not according to any harm or damage that you may have done. Then they throw you into prison for smoking a joint, or for multitudes of kinds of petty little things that HARMED OR DAMAGED NOBODY.

Government people are way more your common crooks than Ross could ever imagine being even if he happened to be evil incarnate. Why? Because they constantly deny people their rights through ignorance of the law. And then they rob and jail and even murder their victims. And now Ross is one of their victims by this same methodology.

Consider. An attorney is first and foremost an officer of the court. The attorney doesn't owe you anything except that the court tells him he does. When he represents you, this is CONFLICT OF INTEREST. It is the way government is criminally acting against all the people of the land.

Ross should be given a medal. He should be given a medal for helping to bring this thing about the courts to light.

The one important word that is destroying our freedom in the courts is REPRESENTATION. If we weren't represented in the courts by an attorney or by ourselves, but rather, if we were present as a man or woman, most of the codes and laws wouldn't apply. Only harm, damage, or breaking a contract (which is harm or damage) would apply to us.

Free Ross. Free us all!

:)

<blink>

What the hell were you and I disagreeing on before?

I fully endorse this!

That mouth is going to be handy in jail, i voted 30 years!

He paid for murders and i know we don't know it's fact but we do know he paid for them.   

I don't remember. But I'm sure that we could figure it out if we tried.

Remember the saying, "divide and conquer?" That's what the whole judicial system in the U.S., Canada, and the U.K. are trying to do to us, their people. Isn't it about time that we do the same to them? by getting rid of our petty arguments until we throw their yoke off our necks?

If you haven't seen how Karl Lentz is doing just that, you really need to look. You'd probably like Karl. He is a farmer, was a motorcycle "tough" guy, knows the law up and down right and left, and understands exactly how to do the things the so-called patriot gurus have been trying to do forever without success.

Start learning about Karl here http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss127469.xml.

Karl's two major websites are http://www.broadmind.org/ and http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/.

Be ready for profanity, lots of "f***."

Some of his best info is found in the 4 audios before and including Episode 171 here http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss127469.xml.

Want more links? Look at some of my other posts, or ask. Let's first straighten up the courts, get the good guys out of prison, and then fight out between us our petty differences.

:)

It's all hearsay. Nobody has come forward with a claim that Ross did the wrong from a first-hand stance. Nobody has come forward to say, "Ross paid me to be a hit man." Yet, somehow we just know that Ross did it.

:)

Do they even have pics of real dead folks?

Imagine it was the FEDS the whole time building a case on all sides.

Ran a multi-billion dollar drug ring and I haven't seen a single body... pretty decent example for ballsey folks in the future (who aren't in america hopefully)

Lifetime.

How many lives were saved by not having to buy drugs off the streets?
How many careers were saved when people weren't caught buying a $10 bag of weed?
When was the last time you could ask your local dealer for independent feedback on their products?

I would much prefer the CEO's of Big Pharma corps were locked up indefinately, they've helped kill much more people than any darkmarket. Keep jacking yourself up with those prescription drugs ;)

While I agree that I to would love to see big pharma corps locked up that can't happen because that means locking themselves up doesn't it, that would already have been done but to much money and control at stake. Ross could have just bailed at any minute after he earned his first $100,000,000 lol but he chose to stay and go full retard. I think he should be freeed and robbing him was enough punishment.

But drug companies are legal because they pay their dues to the government. Think of political hypocrisy and imagine the face of your favorite politician when you read the quote below.

Your actions speak so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.

                                                                         ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Aye. What Ross did, if he is indeed DPR (I am not convinced), was to do what they do without their sanction. If he had done it with their sanction, any harm he may have done would be ignored.

A politician wants power like a drowning man wants air. Before becoming a full fledged anarchist, I briefly thought the Repugnicans had better ideals than the Democraps. I worked on the camapaign of a (now former) state governor, and met most of the republican leadership during that time. They were almost all truly evil men, in every sense of the word. But even the few who weren't still wanted that power. They wanted to do good with it, but wanting the power was FAR more important than what they did with it.

Bob Ross to Ross Ulbricht...


https://i.imgur.com/GQMeqRz.jpg

There were mainly three groups of people who suffered considerable losses as a result of the Silk Road. These people are:

1. Mexican drug cartels: Lost millions of $$$ as people began to buy cheaper and high-quality weed from SR.
2. Bankers: Lost millions of $$$, as people began to buy bullion and pre-paid debit cards from SR.
3. Pharma: Lost millions of $$$, as people began to buy cheaper and high-quality pharma drugs from SR.

Is it possible there could be a point in the future where ross is free due to a change in drug law of gov perhaps losing grip of power? They only have him in jail because they can right.

I doubt he would be released due to drug law changes unless the US gov legalizes crack, heroin and other hard drugs, can't see that happening anytime soon.

They want to make an example of him to deter future DPR's from cutting into the CIA's profit margins :)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/13/420107/-CIA-Torture-Jet-wrecks-with-4-Tons-of-COCAINE

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z266/danos714/24_09droga-1.jpg

I am just tired of the American double standards.

When Taliban was in power in Afghanistan, they had almost eradicated the opium poppy cultivation there. As a result, the heroin smuggling to Russia and Iran was reduced to almost nothing.

After the US-led invasion of Afghanistan, the NATO actively encouraged the opium poppy cultivation there, giving all sort of help and subsidies to the farmers. The ultimate aim was to make Russian and Iranian youngsters addicted to heroin. It is estimated that in Russia alone, some 2 million people have died from heroin addiction in the past 15 years.

An Afghan man harvests opium in a poppy field while US soldiers look on in a village in Golestan district, Farah province, Afghanistan:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01396/Harvesting-opium_1396912i.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/5279303/Opium-harvest-in-Afghanistan.html

But in their view it doesn't matter what they do to those filthy heathens overseas. Ross allowed drugs to be sold to purebred whitie children in college at home and without paying any tax. I'm surprised he wasn't just called a terrorist and taken straight to gitmo without a trial.

Rape a white American woman on U.S. soil and go to prison. Go to war with Vietnam and rape and kill a woman but call her a VC and get promoted. See the difference?

Most of the 2 million Russians, who died as a result of the NATO-sponsored heroin trafficking to Russia were white as well. So this has nothing to do with race. The Americans wanted to destroy the younger generations in Russia and Iran, and that's why we are having the NATO actively engaging in the Afghan opium poppy cultivation.

Yeah that and we don't really give a shit what happens to people overseas. They're like dogs to us. We look at the ads on TV of dogs being murdered in shelters and say "Oh, isn't that sad" but we won't get off the sofa to go rescue a dog from the shelter. So Russians and Iranians are just dogs.

https://nodogaboutit.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/picture-198.png

I don't think that they are after the money. Agencies such as the CIA are having more than enough money, in the form of funds from the Central government. As I had posted earlier, their motives are purely political. If they weaken the society in Iran and Russia by destroying the younger generation, it will be easier for the United States to defeat these nations in case of any future warfare.

Back on topic. Two things.

1. DPR was prepared to have Green executed because he stole his Bitcoins, when in fact it was Carl Mark Force that did it.
2. I understand there were a number of occasions the SR dealers, being anon but knowing the buyer address, would blackmail the buyer after purchase.

It wasn't a perfect system.

But did the punishment fit the crime?

Some reference material:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2015/01/29/nashville-drug-lord-sentenced-years/22538011/

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/08/world/americas/jamaica-drug-lord-sentenced/

http://abc7.com/news/us-judge-sentences-cartel-lieutenant-to-22-years/409945/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/20/notorious-mexican-drug-lord-sentenced-to-15-years-in-u-s-prison-see-what-hes-accused-of-doing/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2549559/Drug-dealer-44-spent-millions-luxury-cars-designer-clothes-lavish-getaways-sentenced-25-years-trafficking-TON-cocaine.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/08/christopher-dudus-coke-jail-term

What it amounts to is he was used as an example for any future online drug kingpins. The lesson learned is that it's better to just murder and deal drugs in person because the sentence is much less severe.

No. Life without parole in a maximum security prison is a scandal.

There is not enough evidence for #1. The FBI have presented some cooked up email records and online chats as evidence. But in my opinion, none of these evidences are trustworthy.

Yes. #2 was a big issue. But it is not the fault of Ross Ullbricht.

Yes, but that quote is damn near exactly how the sons of bitches SELL this stupidity to the American public. We are, despite what it often seems, a very insular society. Do not mistake the actions of the United States of America for the will of it's slaves. Most of us don't like, or trust our rulers. But most of us are complacent, and afraid. The country that I grew up in does not exist anymore. It's now a police state very similar to Germany just before the ascent of the Nazi party to ultimate power. There is more wealth, and the nationalism is less targeted (slightly), but it's very similar.

And fuck Godwin, this is reality.