Bitcoin Forum

there has been a lot of speculation as to what pirateat40 is doing in order to be able to offer seemingly impossibly good returns in BST and such high rates at GPUMAX.  While it has already been speculated upon I would like to confirm: PirateAt40 is laundering money.  

Here is how they work:

Bitcoin Savings & Trust

Many have asked: How is Pirate regularly paying off 7% a week, with consistency and over a period of time?  (a ponzi would have folding months ago)

Pirate tries to maintain a buffer of somewhere between 10-50k clean bitcoins on hand.  These are the investments from the BTC community.   When one of his customers needs their Bitcoins laundered, he sends them 30-50% the number of dirty Bitcoins back to the customer in clean bitcoins.  (Some of his customers get better rates than others).  then he uses the dirty bitcoins to pay interest back to the depositors.  

This buys his customers the assurance that their new coins are no longer connected to them through the blockchain.  But he can offer them one better...

GPUMAX

GPUMAX is the ultimate form of money laundering because your coins don't come from anyone. they are printed out of thin air.  Miners are happy to be paid 150% without asking questions.  anyone who has been paid out from GPUMAX has recieved dirty coins (unless you were a really early tester).  He can send fresh clean coins to anyone who pays him in bitcoin.  we know that even people who don't have a relationship with us are using it to launder.

Why am I posting this?

Sorry, but I can't say too much without putting myself in the line of fire.  Pirate is a nice guy at heart, but he does business with some ugly people who I don't want coming back to me. recently though, he hasn't been thinking about the long-term for bitcoin, only the short term profits for himself.  he is reinvesting his money in businesses which are illegal in his (and most other) jurisdictions around the world. but the part i am most worried about:

Over the past few months, Pirate has started to get stupid about his IRL spending habits.  He has made some purchases that are probably going to raise some red flags.  His "legitimate" occupation will not stand up to scrutiny if the feds shine a light on him.  there is no way he can justify the amount of money he is pulling out. hes not keeping a clean head and people that know him can tell something isnt quite right. this is what really has me concerned, because he is just being too flashy.

edit: lender beware

Given all the proof you provided, I cannot help but admit that you are right about Pirate.  I am withdrawing immediately. ;)


sarcasm

Bernie Madoff ran his ponzi scheme from 1970 until 2008.

Earlier today I made a post about this, and I have a feeling this is what may have inspired this thread. If pirate is laundering Bitcoin then the people who are paying him to do it are paying him ridiculous rates. If you go to onionland you'll find plenty of people willing to launder Bitcoins for a 1-2% fee.

This is your first post?  Who are you really?

As mentioned, earlier today I made a few posts on the topic, I'm assuming OP read these and decided to make a thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82534

Not just a thread, but a brand new account.  So either its a total n00b making accusations based on what other people are asserting without adding any new evidence OR its someone that's been around for a while and doesn't have the balls to post using their original account. 

Actually I missed your post, but you are spot on:

you are right.  i don't have the balls to publicly identify myself as the snitch and take the stiches i deserve.

drugs mostly.  make a purchase with the top sellers on SR and then trace them.

Evidence?

sorry, theres no way for me to do that which wont be personally traceable.  but you already knew that...  ;)

Just like you know its easy to spread FUD without having to back up what you say.  Maybe you should use your original account instead of hiding behind a new one.

does anyone else think its interesting that he is trying harder to find my identity than to discredit me?

in case the rest of you don't know, imsaguy does business with pirate

I haven't tried to figure out who you are.  All I asked was who you really are, since you decided to make a brand new account for this.  You'll notice I use a single account and I don't hide.  If I've got something to say about someone, I'll say it and take credit for it.


This one gets you the Captain Obvious award.  Half the bitcoin community has done business with pirate.  derp.

<fud>
Everybody knows that Pirate is Atlas, Shakaru & Bruce Wagner. He is the biggest smuggler of Colombian cocaine in the world and doesn't afraid of anything.
</fud>

Blazr proposes FUD tags for the forum

pirate is being stupid with other peoples money.  if he goes down, nobody gets their money back.  5-10% of bitcoins go *poof*.  hes not keeping a clean head recently, which is what got me really worried.  he isnt respecting the responsibility which comes from managing almost a half million dollars of other people's money. 

i fear if this isn't unwound soon, its going to be like a mini-2008 US financial crisis for Bitcoin.  way too many lenders depend on his regular 7% to make the returns they promise.  when the music stops, innocent naive people will be left holding the bag.

Full disclosure: im long bitcoin.

these threads are probably good for scaring off new investors and opening up more availability for the serious ones.

thanks ninja

Suddenly now you're worried about full disclosure?  Clearly you've got a bit to learn about 'full disclosure'.

payb.tc is a 'serious' investor in BST?

While I have no experience with pirate, I took it for granted that laundering drug money was his gig. I assume most pragmatic analysis leads to that conclusion. I would guess that most of his investors believe this as well.

-s

SR tumbles your coins with other dirty ones.  this disintermediates the transaction, but does not actually give you clean coins. even if you accept other people's dirty coins, you are trusting the operators of silk road to keep your info safe.

I wish everyone would shut the fuck up about money laundering. Each and every one of us uses encryption in some way to protect our private information. Why the fuck is financial data any different?

Bad guys: If you're doing "bad things" in the real world, and you're unlucky or a big enough target, you're eventually going to get boned by the cops and a cell mate.

Cops: Stop fucking invading my financial privacy to make your fucking job easier. Don't you already get like unlimited vacation days for shooting innocent civilians?

ninjaat40 is a troll.  There's nothing to back up his claims.  All of his claims have been debunked.  My guess is its someone that's butthurt about not getting invited into gpumax or btcst yet.

I hope you're not being serious? A vote doesn't constitute as evidence.

you're*

and of course he isn't being serious. derp.

lulz

Maybe someone shorted BTCST and believes if they cause a bank run pirate will default?

It works just fine if you buy from a major seller multiple times. If you make up any reasonable portion of the sales on SR, it is beyond trivial to remove the SR mixer from the equation. This evidence does not need to be enough to convince a jury to convict you - it just needs to be enough to find you. The actual evidence will fall in place easily enough from there.

I think you mean like MtGox, since blockchain.info doesn't mix coins. That being said, e-wallets - especially MtGox - are trivially easy to detect in the blockchain. From there, you just have to ask the e-wallet where the user's funds then moved.

He's not talking about address info. Rather, he's referring to the Bitcoin addresses that are withdrawn to. Even if Silk Road claims they don't keep those records, Silk Road could easily just be a front for the DEA. It's impossible to know for sure.

Are there services that can process 10k BTC/day? Because that's about the volume we're talking about, and that was as of a few months ago. I have no idea what Pirate's volume is at now.

Some people aren't willing to have their money in limbo that long.

They're willing to pay 15x more to have it a few days earlier?

Oh no!  Fake bitcoins!

Oh, really? That actually makes it easier to track. Thanks for that. The only way it would make it harder is if Pirate is SR's mixer, which is one theory that I subscribe to.

And my point was that once dirty funds hit an e-wallet, it no longer matters how dirty the funds are on the blockchain.

Absolutely. Say you make 5k BTC per day. Imagine getting the following choice:
1) Safely cash out 1k BTC/day with only a 2% fee. Bank the other 4k BTC/day and cry in a corner.
2) Safely cash out all 5k BTC/day and pay 50% in fees.

Tell me, which one is better, given that you need USD to pay your supplier?

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that holding BTC for even one extra day could result in a 50% loss anyway. Remember, until recently, this was quite often the case.

It is shocking, shocking that an outsized return from an investment with zero transparency is related to major illegal operations.  Who would have thought?

Cheeseburger.

So you are implying that pirate is lying when he claims that his operation is illegal, and uses that as an excuse to not reveal his identity, or do you have knowledge or evidence of other illegal activities?  Since you seems to know that much about pirate, can you please reveal some real information about pirates illegal business?

It is well known that pirate is a crook.  He even claims to be a crook himself.  I'm glad someone finally reveal some details about exactly what he does.  The claims have not been debunked.  Not in this thread.

If its used to launder for drug money, power to him. Isnt the government laundring your hard earned money every single day ?

Some of us actually dont think anyone should be handled like a mass murder if they want to buy/sell drugs, some of us still believe that a person should be responsible for his own undoing and not left to the government regulations and retarded rules.

Take a look at all the crimes government employees(some who actually write the new law amendments) do and they end up getting either suspended with full pay and benefits or at worse a slap on the wrist, the law makers seem to be above the law so its time citizens start to live their life the way they choose albeit without harming anyone else directly/indirectly(its fine if you want to harm yourself ie. overlord drug use).

watching  8)

Thank you for this post. It's about time someone put him in his place.

Please quote for me where pirate claimed to be a crook.


What about all those that have paid to use gpumax?  There's a persistent line of people asking "when's my purchase going to start?" so are you saying pirate's making all those puppet accounts just to ask those stupid questions that have been asked and answered over and over and over again.  The mere fact that tainted happen to get paid out of gpumax doesn't mean anything.  People buy their time from gpumax by sending them coins, clean or dirty.  If that makes pirate a crook, then where are the accusatory posts against all the other services that don't use a strict 1:1 reserve of bitcoins for their clients.  MtGox, Intersango, GLBSE, you name it, all mix the coins.  You can't blacklist every single coin that's touched a theft because there wouldn't be any left due to the divisibility of bitcoin.

The whole "I can't say anything because that will reveal who I am" doesn't hold water.  If pirate only told a small set of people, then he only has a small set of people to consider who is talking which means he probably already has an idea of who it is.  If pirate has told a large set of people, then any number of them could be talking and it wouldn't be immediately clear who is talking.  That means you've got nothing to worry about if you talk.  So which is it?

lulz

sub and I just wanted to quote the complete OP for my own records.

On the first version of the web page for his laundering^Wtrading system where he promised a high weekly interest to people who deposited there.  It was under "Why don't you reveal your real identity" or similar.  He has smartened up a tiny bit since then, and left it out in later versions.  I don't know what excuse he has got this week for not revealing his identity.

His real identity IS known.  Did you not see the thread the other day?  You clearly need to try harder.

and if not announcing your real identity is 'bad', then the OP is 'bad'.

Many people know who he is.

There were at least a hundred different threads "the other day", and no, I didn't see it.  The only hint I have is "Trendon Shavers", and the only "Trendon Shavers" I could find related to pirateat40 has a warrant listed on him here:

http://www.co.midland.tx.us/da/hotcheckwarrants/list/

I have no idea if this is the same person or not.
What is "the OP"?  Not announcing your identity is not necessarily bad.  It depends on the conditions.  You may be anonymous at your AA meetings.  If you hand your money over to some person on the Internet without even knowing who she is or what she is doing with them, you should have your brain checked for signs of life.

Well, that explains the high payouts.
/me withdraws his entire balance... oh wait

"OP" is original post/original poster.

Have you looked at the lending forums?  A shitton of people loan people money without knowing who she is or what she is doing with them, using their online identity as reference enough.  I suppose its time a thread is started about each one of them?

Certainly. While some of you guys (most responders in this thread)
do not appear to take OPs claims seriously, I guarantee you that the FBI will.

If the agents involved in Operation Farmer's Market have finished their investigation, they will be looking at this thread.

Claims that money laundering is not a crime will not save your day in court.
If you have a problem with applicable law, it is you that has a problem, not the law.

In the US, applicable law (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1961) could mean the RICO statutes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act).

There is no way everyone involved will have taken sufficient
precautions to stay anonymous under a full and thorough investigation.

Claims of negligence will not save you.

Take care, stay safe, and remember the old adage,
if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

can't you leave the man do a  dollar?  it's not our business what he launders our deal is not having our money lost in this laundering game.
also if it's true let fbi take care of this. i bet you already call them before posting the scheme here  ;)

Butthurt radar detected, forum batman activated.

Right. Exactly. That's basically what I'm expecting. So. Just. Take care, you know.


Are you referring to me? I think they'll manage on their own. Have you not read their recent report on Bitcoin? ;)



Here's a quick analysis:

I certainly don't have enough information to even pretend to know what's going on here.
Interestingly, I notice that BST, GPUMAX, PPT investors sound like they don't have too much of a clue either.
FBI, FinCEN, etc. is likely in the same position, for now. Though maybe not.

To the best of my knowledge - sustained - 7% weekly, compounded return on investment is not encountered in any legitimate line of business.

(For any reasonable, survivable level of risk. (I could be wrong, though I'd be quite (pleasantly) surprised.))


This makes pirateat40 an interesting case.


Now, put yourself in the shoes of a law enforcement agent, take a step back, and make a tally of the evidence.
It seems hard to deny that this case could be pertinent to their interests as well, does it not?

At a minimum I'd expect them to want to know what's going on here.

I would think that law enforcement will want to gather information, and then act upon it, if warranted.

Because that is their job, yes? (And wouldn't you think they'd love to dig up some damning dirt on those Bitcoins?)

If they are doing their jobs right they will eventually try, and they will eventually plausibly succeed.
Try, and succeed at figuring out what's going on, exactly. And who's involved, exactly.
This should be expected to take time. But it sounds quite possible that it could - eventually - happen.


So they they try, and find nothing. Or they find something. Or they find something but not a certain pirate, so they settle for you.
I don't know. Maybe pirateat40 is thoroughly legitimate in every conceivable way. I do hope so, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

If you have a job, a wife, a family, and you want it to stay that way, you'd do well to keep on your toes.
You realistically need to figure out whether being called in for questioning, or put on trial, is a part of your acceptable risk.

No? Then the worst case scenario could be exactly that.

A worst case scenario.

Cheers!  :)

(Corrections are welcome. Not trying to crash the party. Just calling it like I see it.)

Very interesting theories.

Shame you have no evidence but just pure FUD  ::)

Shame you have no evidence that Pirate is an upstanding citizen.

The United States (where pirate lives) has this crazy thing where people are innocent until proven guilty.  If you can't prove him guilty, then his jurisdiction's law says he's innocent.
I can't say that I don't think something less than savory is behind his returns, but making claims with no proof is insane.

Don't be smug just because you keep your finger in his bum hole (metaphorically speaking).

splatster, while in the US 'innocent until proven guilty' holds, all that is necessary is probable cause to obtain a search warrant that would make proving guilt much easier. In serious money laundering cases, searches/wiretaps/etc have gone on for years prior to the actual indictment. While in the US hacking is still not allowed for obtaining computer records, precedent for offensive information gathering has been set in Germany. Encrypted hard disks provide no defense against that threat vector.

-s

that is one of the world's biggest myths imho.

was kim dotcom ever proven guilty?

no, but they destroyed his business anyway.


if you make a lot of money, you're guilty until you can prove to the state that you're innocent (they will assume it comes from illegal means unless you can prove it was earned legitimately)

if you sleep with a young-looking chick, you're guilty until you can prove to the state that she's 18+ (they will assume she's a child, and you go to jail, unless you prove your innocence).

I'm not saying I am in agreement with the OP, but I do like the rationale for why Pirate would have setup GPUMAX.  I've been puzzled as to why he would do that.

If he is laundering money, I'm guessing that means that all of the money could get seized by the government and you wouldn't have any recourse to get it back.  I know the US government likes to seize possessions that are connected to the drug trade.

I don't know if people who are loaning money to him would be criminally liable.  I'm hoping not, but I am not an expert.  One would hope that forum posts of an unconfirmed guess (or anonymous post) that he is engaging in illegal activity would be treated as a completely unreliable source.  Now if you are one of the small handful of people who actually know who he is and still invested, then you might be liable for prosecution.

Does he live in the US? Does anybody actually know this? People seem to know an identity that Pirate planted, but I haven't seen a single scratch of evidence that he even exists.

Even then, you're missing my point: Pirate has not disclosed any evidence that could possibly point to him having made his money legally. The bar I'm asking for isn't even all that high.

I bought his story the first few months; it's hard to believe it anymore.

*sips his fruity drink on his private island while watching the community make him sound like the Most Interesting Man In Bitcoin.

"I don't always sip fruity drink, but when I do, I sip dos frambuesas"

Then why not show your probable cause?  Your argument right now is "He produces high returns and I think he's doing something illegal."  Your hunch is not probable cause.

There's a lot of straw-man arguing in this thread.

Some of us believe that pirate is PROBABLY laundering drug money or something not too far from it.

There's a lot of conjecture about how law enforcement could or could not influence the bitcoin economy.

Some folks are arguing that no-one has proved that pirate is laundering money. Guess what? You're all right! You're also all missing the point: 7% weekly is questionable, to say the least.

It's a rate that is unsustainable unless there are transactions going on at the level of the entire Bitcoin Saving and Trust market cap with a transaction fee greater than 7%. This is relatively easy to achieve in various lines of *questionable* business, accepted as the fee for the added risk of increased scrutiny and potential for legal action (or worse, depending on who your partners are).

I disagree with the notion that pirate going down would hurt bitcoin. I'm indifferent, either way should be fine for bitcoin. Any economy has a continuum of markets, from black through grey to squeaky-clean white. Even black markets have a continuum: hit-money and human trafficking on the one side, and simple goods smuggling and tariff avoidance on the other.

No-one can reasonably argue that pirate is squeaky-clean white, if for no other reason than the incompleteness of his public disclosure.

So what? Decide where you're willing to operate and operate there. Let's skip the 'you don't have proof!' for assertions of opinion.

-s


I'm not involved in prosecuting anybody, and never claimed my beliefs about pirate's activity constitute probable cause. I was just discussing the parameters affecting the hypothetical situation where a money launderer is being investigated by law enforcement in the US.

As an aside, if law enforcement can convince a judge that a money launderer's operation is 'permeated with fraud', in the specific sense relating to document warrants, they can perform seizure indiscriminately, rather than having to name what they expect to find beforehand. So, effective money laundering requires at least an ostensible cover story to avoid that injunction.

No, Trendon. The Most Interesting Man in Bitcoin is Satoshi Nakamoto.

Hello? Yes, this is dog.

Are you the receptionist at Business Cognition? Do you accept bitcoins?

Woof!

But more seriously, the unnecessary addition of ", Trendon" (as if that's at all difficult to find or new information, given his #bitcoin-otc profile) to your sentence just comes off as trying too hard.

The way people paint pirateat40, you'd think he really was the most interesting man in the world. I've heard people say he's the secret investor behind bitcoinica, but that he's also the thief behind the coins and is involved in laundering the stolen coins. Others say he's involved in major drug operations. It's astonishing how much of a crime lord the guy is, and how much everyone knows about him given how little he says anywhere public.


Will you be trying to unmask this mysterious "dog" character next? I bet I run a massive prostitution and human slavery ring in bitcoins, or something like that, right?

Relax. I like dogs.

Hypothetical, or whatever you want to call it, it's all FUD.

Hey Dawg,

How are you? Is Hawaii still good for business?  I like your show. You always get your man. Your wife looks mean though.

Nice to see that you like Bitcoins. Will you be taking them for Bail-Bonds? I bet that will go over really well here. :P

+1

Yes, straw-men and red herrings.  ;D
And dogs.  ;)

You make reasonable points, especially about the continuum. Avoiding VAT is not the same as trafficking children. An obvious point, I know, but it bears repeating.

I don't expect to get straight answers that explain the absurd returns, but the lack of a legit answer is what piques people's interest, including mine. Yes, I am calling out Pirate. Is he running a ponzi scheme? Probably.

Pirate/Trendon is not obliged to explain himself to us, but neither does seeking answers constitute FUD.

So-called 'Pass through bonds' issued by someone who called himself 'Pirate' and who had an outstanding hot check warrant? Years from now a much larger bitcoin community will find this funny.  :D



Pirate/Trendon's extraordinary returns obviously bring extraordinary scrutiny. Why would one think otherwise?

[edited for grammar]

Certainly. I was hoping the scrutiny would be of a higher quality, though. When people make reputation-tarnishing statements about someone based on nothing but idle speculation, it bothers me. I know this forum's membership has an aggregate mean IQ of about 50, but I was disappointed that certain people chimed into this bullshit that I wasn't expecting.

Can we stop the sockpuppetry now, please?

Did you have a problem with the OP doing it? What's wrong with it? This isn't about who I am as much as what I'm saying: "Woof" means "Woof" no matter which dog says it.

What if the returns for BTCST come from GPUMAX?  He is earning 10% on all purchases after all...  How would that be illegal?

If nothing else this will be a fun rant to follow.

Be careful what you wish for.

The scrutiny is there, make no mistake.

"...based on nothing but idle speculation..."? That's funny.

Frankly, I don't hold the members of this forum in such low esteem to consider their mean IQ to be equivalent to one with mental retardation.

Read between the lines. The forum members here are actually quite bright.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is withholding revealing and damaging information out of respect to all the members of this forum, especially Pirateat40. You think we all rely on google? Woof, woof.

Put up or shut up.

i am confident that it is a ponzi. I do not have proof, because I do not need proof. If it is a ponzi, there is no proof to be had. Sort of like how you can't prove that unicorns do or don't exist. in what universe does somebody offer 7% weekly when half that much would still have people lining up to get in? The 7% keeps people from withdrawing their principal. It is set at 7% for that reason and no other. If this were a real business, run by a real business man, all of that excess profit would be kept by the promoter. Depositors are too greedy to withdraw with those returns on the table. It really is very simple.

I have only 10 btc in BTCST as I type this (hedged with betsofbitcoin). But that is also most of my bitcoins atm. I am looking for a quick buck or two. But honestly, the sooner this shit defaults, the sooner bitcoin can start recovering from all the damage. But go ahead and flame me anyway.

This is the one post I will make regarding the ponzi issue. Peace.

No further comments.

I'll shut up.

I don't want to actually slander someone.

Even without corporate/institutional database searches, one can still find phone numbers, police records, business filings, marriage records, addresses, etc. All public information. All searching the internet in just a few minutes.

But I think I've said enough about this topic. A curious investor will figure out where to look.

What's more interesting is the level of risk tolerance by investors. I've been thinking a lot about this and, similar to Wall Street, the psychology seems akin to gambling. One of the reasons I find Wall Street so fascinating----but also why I hate working with Wall Street firms----is because the gambling mentality that is so pervasive there feigns investment. I've spent many a night in Macau, Vegas, and Monaco, but at least in those places they're honest and upfront about the risk. But Wall Street and the various 'bonds' on this forum? Those high rates don't come from nothing.

lol tell me about it.

Well that is nice, hint but don't slander. It is an improvement though.

And what is it with 'investors', 'lenders', 'traders', etc... Searching the internet for their investigative techniques. You realize that even for a Lexis Nexus search your starting information needs to be confirmed. It is the internet. Do you get all your investing information from it? If you were to invest any significant sum with anybody, you might want to actually meet them and confirm information. You can't rely on PP accounts, email headers, IP addresses, scanned images of DL's, etc... as a form of identity. That might reduce a risk (at least a little) but they are not scribed in stone. Geesh... waiting for someone to use Barack Obama, he could get a PP account, Bank Account, and even provide a Birth Certificate since it was posted for the whole world to see. :)

Truly paranoid people will even expect their computers to be compromised and load it full of information for people to speculate on and lead them on wild goose chases.

If you really want to know, go and find out. But until then, you must rely on his actions to date. He has done what he said he was going to do.

I am willing to bet when everything comes to light there will be some "WTF's I got that one wrong" going on here.

Make a list of 'ALL' possibilities and start checking them off but keep them to yourselves until you can prove something. Go ahead and talk among the various cabal's or w/e but don't put them in a public forum that is searched via the google.bot

Wanna know what I think ? The facts are out there where I talked about them but this is my opinion of piecing the pieces together.

The sock puppet OP is clearly "paraipan" ( notice the word "snitch" in the OP and see this report http://bitcoin-shitlist.com/2012/02/16/paraipan/ ) or none other than Mircea Popescu - the very passionate anti-pirate dude with the hot girl avatar. Clearly the OP being a puppet is very funny in itself.

What do they have in common you say ? Both seem to be from the same country in the EU and speak the same fuzzy language.

Other than that paraipan is a self righteous snitch that always wants to play the police ( see him reporting Bitcoinica as doing some illegal stuff to the Spanish police ) and bring justice to the forum all by himself :D Maybe he is dreaming of becoming a policeman and practising on us now ;)

Mircea Popescu ? He is heavily selling anti-pirate bonds and betting on pirate defaulting ( but nobody bought his crap anyway ). Terrytibbs ? Did not get invited to the pirate bank due to being a scammer and he missed the boat.

Funny how all the people making accusations are probably jealous they did not get in on the action early enough and jealous of his massive success.

I am convinced pirate is doing good for this community and BTC in general. FUD all you want but I think his projects are great !

Funny how you try and distract from the issue at hand ! Wonder why ? You missed the pirate boat ... ARGHH matey !!! :D

Really? I thought from the name Popescu he must have been Romanian. Well, this is an informative thread!

Subbbbbbb-ed!

Now I need a subway sub, bastid.

Exactly. paraipan and Mircea Popescu are 100% Romanian.  

See here for the forum discussion I oversaw using Google Translate : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15007.0

Funny they see a ponzi here because Romania has had many a ponzi scheme and the people are the most gullible ever in regards to ponzis :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caritas_(Ponzi_scheme)

paraipan is Spanish and Romanian? At the same time? Is this some sort of dual citizenship deal?

could you please explain again what has pirateat40 , paraipan and mircea popescu all in common?

And the cute red crosses at his avatar. That ain't there for no reason.

It means he  :-* us all.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82849.0

Well, that settles it.

Except this one.  How do you make 7% a week legally?  You don't even have to answer, since he even claimed himself the operation "may be illegal in his country" or something similar.  (For the illiterate: This is illegal everywhere, no doubt about that, so I'm not going to reveal any specifics.) There can't be any doubt about the [il]legality.  The only remaining question is exactly how it is done.  And you don't need to know all the details, not even to get someone convicted.

Actually there are places you can make 7% per week legally.  It's not something I chose to do, and the total dollar returns are not great for me because of market size.  I'll stick to providing 7%/month returns for people (legally), and wait for someone to come trolling that my offering 200+% per year returns "must" be some kind of illegal ponzi shit.  Sure it's not as good as Pirate, nor as such a scale, but it's nicely sustainable.

I might be confused here. Are you saying making 7%/week is illegal? or paying 7%/week is illegal?

OMG, don't you guys know what markups are in Retail? Lets start sending everybody to jail, they're all ponzi's.

Can we start with Cell Phone companies?

Oh, how about MP that charges $5 per fill and people routinely buy $50 cards. That is 10% right there.

But I see how it is, if it walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, it's a Goose. :)

Are you referring to payday loans?

Making up an outlandish story with no backing (which is what the OP is) is not seeking answers, it is spreading FUD.

No I wasn't, but that is certainly an area where it occurs.

Strikes me that people are too occupied with what they see right in front of them, and not what else happens in the world.  Might be that they have not been exposed to the ideas, or not seen what else can be done.

As an aside, when the project I was on was seeking capital a few years ago, most people were looking at 30% to 50% returns per year across several years.  The result was people purchased at 0.32 and sold at 1.40 - made a nice return for them.  Much more conventional, but it was a highly regulated and competitive industry.

i successfully withdrew well over 1000+ today (timing had nothing to do with the recent FUD, just coincidence).

if this is a con, it's a very very long con.

Maybe I am missing the proof where this has to be a crime. What I can tell you is I personally have been paid by Banks in excess of 7%. Granted this was in the late 90s but all that 7% proves is that it has to be making pirate more then 7%. Lets say pirate wanted to borrow a lot of money. He could take out a personal loan. Lets say his credit is very good and they will offer him 10%. Now if he pays you 7% to buy what he was going to buy anyways and use your money to buy it paying you slightly less then he would pay a bank. To be honest banks are required to keep 0% of savings in their possesion but to keep a whole 5% of your checking account in their possesion. Lets say pirate calculates that 10% of the money will be moving in and out a day

100     90
107     119

Now do I think he is charging 20% per year? It would be legal. It would not be excessive.
Could he have less reserved money and lower it furterh sure.

100     95
107     113

Again not impossble or even illegal.
Now is running a non compliant financial institution illegal sure. Can I be positive that he has all required paperwork filed and the appropriate oversight in place no.

As far as GPUMax it could be that some people do wash coins there. I am not saying everyone using the service is legit. What I will say is that people have said they signed up to test private pools and to use it as a backstop for downtime for mining contracts. Are either illegal no. Maybe I get money from an exchange and feel wrong about paying for stolen coins etc. So I having 0 illegal action to get them decide to buy hashing power. They are my coins. I broke no laws procuring them. I can do with them as I please. Would you make the same accusations about someone you personally know that pays you back with a 20$ bill that was previously stolen but they recieved from a bank? I think the problem is the stolen coins went to an exchange or to buy things. I think having marked coins only means you have done business with people.

I know people say what they want about things but honestly take a moment and think about the reality of things.

If your bank is charging you 7% weekly interest, you need to stop banking with mob bosses in the back of strip clubs.

Banks paid you more than 7% a week? Was this in Zimbabwe or the Weimar republic perhaps?  :D

Greek Bonds can get you 0.5%/week.

Pirate 'might' be safer though. :)

Hey,

I can get a crate of 100 Ipads from China for $200/each. I don't have the money this week, but can sell them for $400/each within the week. I need someone to lend me $20,000. I'll give you back $21,400 next week. 7%. I'll just keep the extra $18,600.
Next week, I might be able to get 2 crates, some with my money, and some with another loan.


Point being RETAIL businesses have huge MarkUps. Earning 7% per week is nothing in retail. The profit depends on the overhead.

Franchises usually operate in 3% for the Franchisee. Not per week but overall for each and every sale. Per hour, per day, per week, per month, per year.


Just trying to show that the 'rate' isn't crazy. Sustainability will be 'ONCE' the market is saturated with Ipads.

And that is just Retail, now think ComEX.

Is it possible to be an 'illegal' operation? Yes.  Is it possible for it to be a legal operation? Yes.   

But gossip and fud goes over so much better.

Take a seat on the fence and watch the show. :)

Mystery Science Theater 2000.

I LOVE GPUMAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Best thing ever!

Sorry for misunderstanding the time. Yes per week is hgh My accounts have always been calculated daily and paid monthly I assumed his where calculated weekly and paid weekly. But unless otherwise noted interest is calculated per year. I saw no notation to the contrary. So I assumed people knew that interest is normally expressed as an Annual Percentage Rate. And payday loans can get quite high and still be legal since it isn't interest charged but fees. Again By all means express the incredible amount that he pays sure but do it in a more normal context.
FYI it looks to be 4132% Now is that likely an issue Sure. Is that the same as an APR of 7% NO.
So to get this cleared up in my head if you have 10 BTC in the bank you would in 1 week have 10.7?

I'll just say this once: Pirate is probably the only person who can still short Bitcoins now that Bitcoinica went pufff ;)

yup 7% per week.

So his legal options are
Buy bitcoins and sell them making money on the difference. Kinda like the stock market and the larger the swings will make larger gains possible. So at 7% one would have to buy at 5$ and sell for 5.035. That doesn't sound impossible. Granted the exchange will charge something but isn't impossible and the larger the transactions the less he pays agian making it better to draw more depositors in.
Lending to people short term can be an Option. I am not a fan of payday loans but a similar idea would pay bit money a year and each person pays a lot less per contract providing they pay it off fast.
I am not saying he is doing anything illegal just somethings that although look maybe bad could be explained.
Huh 100 to 107 in a week sounds sweet.

EDIT: yes is 5.35 I really shouldn't do math when I first wake up mentally. Still isn't impossible to get a few trades to cover that with less daily or weekly swing.

Well not the 'Stock Market' but the ...?

5*1.07=5.35

Retail has variable costs.  Selling 1000 ipads is harder than selling 500 ipads.

You might be making a 30-50% markup on items (though probably not on ipads - I'd be surprised if retailers make more than 5-15% due to the competition online), but that is only when you don't count your fixed costs (marketing, rent, employees) and variable costs (additional advertising, employees, and rental space to scale up the operation.)

If you can buy 100 ipads from China and turn them over in a week without any additional variable costs, then you are a genius.  If you can do this and decide to use other people's money to do it instead of your own and give them most of the profit, then you aren't a genius.

All this debate over whether it's legitimate business or not...

The answer is simple: such high returns are extremely rare and highly suspicious, but are not proof of wrongdoing. Rare and suspicious doesn't necessarily mean wrong. Some people figure out how to make ridiculous returns, and they are ridiculous because nobody else has figured it out yet. Simple as that.

I don't really care if what he is doing is criminal, but I hope what he is doing is moral. If moral, then I applaud his ability to generate those returns.

Agreed. Whether or not it is illegal only affects the risk assessment. Unfortunately though, you idea of moral, and mine, and anyone else's won't be exactly the same. Pirate could think what he is doing is moral; it doesn't mean you would.

Yea, well IPads was an example. Apple wouldn't dare let that happen. But other products are routinely MU@300%. Instead of Ipads, think Pet Rocks. I wonder, what the MU was on them? lol

And Yes using your own money is preferable in this to maximize profits but using your own money and OPM allows for greater expansion and control of Market Share. In reality though, you could just use OPM, suck out profits and mitigate risks.

Now combine with ForEx and ComEx and 'all' that happens in those markets, 7%/wk isn't unfeasible. BTW: I believe the rate is actually 10.5% or so overall. And remember, this is getting paid in BTC not USD so the Spot Market is in BTC rates.


But alas, I dunno. I just don't appreciate how fast and furious everyone goes negative. But considering what has happened in the community in the past, it is to be expected. It still doesn't make it right though.

I dont think that Pirate is doing anything illegal ! There is no wonder how he is paying 7% a week when anyone can make 100% "if not more" in a couple of hours by simply buying shares @ GPUMAX and direct it to a score pool such as slush!

Maybe Pirate is a successful pawnbroker. Those guys charge 20% or more per month  :D

http://swagthegame.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/url1.jpg

You should see what payday lenders and others charge for loans.....

Well, there you go.

Nonsense.
If you can earn  more by hopping slush than gpumax purchases cost, then I have a few 100GH for you to play with. Heck, you dont even need mine, you can buy them at gpumax and get filthy rich.

Even if you somehow managed to earn 200% PPS on slush with a 10% of D hopping point, after paying gpumax users 140%  you would be looking at something like 500 BTC per month, if that. Thats not even pocket change compared to what pirate owes.

Note the "10% of D hoppoint".
Sure you can increase PPS almost arbitrarily,  but what good is 500% PPS if its only on 0.01% of your shares?
Yes I made those numbers up.

No, I understood you, and what you wrote stands. I just thought it an interesting point.

BTW, in order to earn 200%PPS at 0.1*D, Slush would have to have a hashrate about 30 times larger than the network hashrate which gave rise to D. So maybe when the ASICS come online? :)

i agree that these accusations are possible correct. let us hope we get coins back!

necro'd for relevance

wasn't necro 91+ days?

He's Romanian living in Madrid, Spain. Not necessarily a dual citizen, as both are in the EU.

He actually posted his full name when he put a legal complaint against Bitcoinica for losing his money gambling.

Has the "pirate" pay yet?

No

do you information that he will pay?

i have the informations that you seek

what do they have?