Bitcoin Forum

I was away from crypto for a while and now it seems like BitSharesX came out of nowhere to land in the #4 spot on coinmarketcap and it seems to have a long list of features.  How did the project mature so quickly?

I read somewhere that it has a Chinese affiliation somehow.  Are the devs Chinese?

The short answer to your question is Daniel Larimer is a genius.

The long answer is they actually held the fund raiser for BitSharesX back in February and they've been working on it since & it was released July 20th then they added BitAssets and they've been fine tuning that. Now it's a lean mean machine ready to take a shot at the title.

It has DPOS which is like POS on steroids and more importantly they have BitAssets which completely solve the volatility problem. You can store the value of a dollar or gold in a completely decentralised way backed by 300% collateral that also pays interest. So sick.

On Nov 5th they merged into one BitShares, so the X should disappear soon. They also have some kind of big marketing push in the pipeline. (It hasn't been marketed at all yet, so get ready for lift off...)

The downside is they've also introduced dilution/inflation starting Nov 5 of up to 8% a year. It's less than Bitcoin and it's directed by shareholders via delegates for development, marketing & charity etc. Ofc a lot of people don't like inflation at all so we'll have to see how that all plays out.

(No the devs aren't Chinese, but they have big Chinese support they lost some with the inflation issue though.
One dev at least is Chinese, 'HackFisher' I think but he's based in the US with them I think and he's been working on BitShares PLAY)

Bitshares is a good project, stamp of approval here.

this thread reads like a bad commercial  ;D

That's because on Nov 5th BitShares PTS became part of BitSharesX, they also added BitShares DNS and also as yet unreleased BitShares VOTE. So now the X will drop from BitSharesX and it will just be one BitShares platform.

So BitShares PTS is falling cuz it's pretty much over in its current form. Some people are looking at rebranding it as just PTS and continuing it that way.

I do like alot of the concepts they have implemented but I don't follow them much. As long as they aren't diluting the float it should do well.

PTS isn't a regular coin it gets you shares in new projects. So people who held it at at the end of Feb got shares in BitSharesX, since then PTS was also given shares in BitShares DNS (Namecoin but much cooler.) and that had a $6 million value before the merger. They also got shares in BitShares Music http://peertracks.com/ which is still raising funds & also BitShares VOTE & Play. So owning PTS got you PTS and shares in all those things if you held it on the snapshot date.

On Nov 5th they were merged & given shares in the new BitShares (BitShares X is dropping the X)

So yeah they've done pretty well and as I say people are looking at carrying on PTS as it's own thing, but BitShares PTS is being entirely merged into the new BitShares at no.4 this week.

I would also like to add that people who bought PTS at $20.00 each got their value back, and then some, in BTSX. Now with the final merge that happened Nov 5 they got even more. So it held its value accordingly and now is dropping because all that value has been put into the new super DAC BTS.

Looking forward to seeing BTS move to #2 in the next few months. I'm sure we will get there.

Can't say I agree... or disagree. Only time will tell.

Fully agree with that. I don't like some of his recent decisions, or how the community is going ahead in an ad-hoc manner (with some operating on malicious intents), like HackFisher used a snapshot after 5 days of announcement which has made me suffer losses (again!), but one can't deny the vision of BM and his ability to back it up with his talent.

Toast, when he started working with them at their place, mentioned that the guys already working were on another level altogether which surprised me as from his earlier posts he seemed very competent in his own right.

Bitshares just shows again that Crypto Markets base their value on pure speculation. They have nothing really working as of yet. Exchanges need to upgrade, or manually restart their client minimum on a daily basis, some of their contracts do not run as smoothly as planned and some of the core devs have this project beginning of this year already. Everything may seems really shiny and polished at this point, but I am still waiting to see it in full action.
Not to say that I dislike the project. I mined Protoshares last year with a Amazon AWS farm. Bitshares surely has tried to live up to their promise so far. People just need to calm down and give it more time. Everybody in crypto seems to expected things to be done within maximum half a year. The truth is far from that. What is being built here is the foundation of the most complex systems there will be. Building these takes time and there will be a lot of trial, error and improvement.
It will be interesting to see Bitshares compete with other DAOs in the future, which still needs to be built. I spoke with Vitalik Buterin the other day and he told me, they are aiming at end of March for their launch date. The first time I spoke with somebody from Ethereum they told me mid October.
Just a pity that not every open source project with a faithful team that has been going on since more than a year got the recognition of Bitshares and Ethereum.

PTS just dumped -50%

explanations?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844

TL;DR PTS value dumped because they "merged" into new BitShares DAC (BTS)

the people who just bought them close to formal price must not have known  ::)

Sure the people which know what is it PTS from 5 Nov 2013 know what they buy. People who don't know/care about what PTS has "under the hood" and don't read news from https://bitsharestalk.org can lost, if speculate on PTS price  :(

Yip, I'm especially unhappy with the aspects of the new dilution/inflation myself.

I can't deny though BitUSD, BitGold & BitSilver etc. are world changers. I can't deny Daniel is a genius. I'm also seeing on the forums that from remittances, online shopping, merchant & user adoption, a new website & even talk of a BitUSD debit card, that they really are going to do everything in their power to make sure BitShares are the ones that bootstrap BitAssets. I'm pretty certain that the only way for the BTS share price to go is up for the rest of this year.

I still think it will be up to their new marketing talent like Method to use those tools to promote it in places like Argentina, where I think they will love BitUSD because of their high inflation.

The short answer to your question is Daniel Larimer is anything but a genius.


 Fully agree with that. I don't like ANY of his recent decisions, or how the community is going ahead in malicious intent to scam, swindle and cheat all previous holders while grabbing as much stash for themselves as possible with the recent X share scam, and of course that isn't enough either (it never is for stupid/greedy scamming criminals) so alas their stealing more with more carnival scams by even more massive inflation / i.e. theft from shareholders.

 I'm especially unhappy with the aspects of the new dilution/inflation too. Most unhappy. But at least there will be a most happy ending. Read on...

 I can't deny though BitUSD, BitGold & BitSilver etc. are just more empty promises about a year later, with this series of newest scams now laid out and rolling along, and of course with ever more swindling of new fools and dupes as much as possible  that thought there were serious people instead of scam artists out to swindle from dupes and fools.

 These most obvious shills above call Daniel Larimer a genius. You have to be insane to state such a thing here.

 With nothing but hot air  and fluff, and with nothing adding any value what so ever with their actions going on a year now except for empty statements about remittances, online shopping, merchant & user adoption, a new website & even talk of a BitUSD debit card.

 JUST SHUT UP! Shut the fuck up already! These scammers deserve a microphone (extra large) up their bun-holes. And after all their about to be sharing prison cells with Buba for their criminal acts, a long list of them from the looks of things...But hey, maybe they can fool and dupe the SEC just as easy as many here??

 The nonsense replies above read like a horror show, or a really horrible attempt to RE-RE-RE-PUMP this now flee bag pile of scam-crap to ever more dupes and fools.

 Enough already. With the SEC hot on these clowns and jokers heels they are apt to be spending many a years behind bars for this kind of grand theft series of endless schemes and nothing but hot air amounting to nothing AT ALL. Or at least that's how many of us seeing this today, and many more will extremely fast!

 PTS  & X, we're so sorry...but we must steal ever more, so let's steal (inflate away) just like the FED, BOE, BOJ, BOC, and even soon the ECB. After all we're intitled to the fools and dupes money too? right? WRONG.


 SEC, are you listening?? Best put a red mark next to these obvious scamming thieves.


  Say what? Their called and termed Fiduciary duties geniuses!!! That has been in full breech for the longest with PTS, bla, bla, bla, and now X. Forgetaboutit, these are classic scam artists with a brand new twist and nothing else. Their a dime a dozen in these parts and this is exactly what this is too, imo, and I don't give a rats ass what anyone else thinks and states otherwise. This REEKS HORRIBLY.

 So let's feed them to the SEC whom is looking for many more perfect examples in these parts, and here we have many ALL IN ONE Giant series of scams that fooled many a fool and dupe.

 Never again assholes. NEVER AGAIN.

 Sell it all fools & dupes. And don't ever trust these crooks again.

 Last thought: be sure to be real nice to buba in that prison cell block...lol...I already hear the SEC laughing nonstop at these swindling, idiots. Daniel Larimer : What a genius. NOT. It's called stupid/greedy/scammer that crossed far too many lines to ignore anymore. And all involved parties did breech their  Fiduciary duties to their shareholders. But then this is a non-corporation that no one party owns. Tell that to the SEC bitches. And to Buba too, lol...

@ Slingshot

They're not scam artists. They received $5 million worth of donations by June.
They could have taken that if they were running a scam. Instead they hired devs, worked their arses off and delivered DPOS and BitAssets to the world.

He is a genius. BitAssets are a game changer. Look at them charging negative interest rates in Germany. Look at the deposit confiscations in Cyprus. Expect more of the same in future. BitUSD lets people hold the value of the dollar in a decentralised way that earn far more interest than you'll earn in a bank. It's a game changer. BitAssets like BitUSD will change the world. http://whatisbitusd.com/

I'm not a pure shill, though I do own BTS. I'm actually probably the person that disagreed most on their forum with their new dilution system.

The reality is though BitAssets will change the world. BitShares is a few months ahead of any real competition, they have the best talent and they're about to unleash marketing for the first time. If anything has the chance to overtake Bitcoin in less than a year it's BitShares.

If you like money buy BitShares this month imo.

@ Slingshot

Read your post, I agree that you can have your opinion and you can share it here, but to be honest I don't get your point and decide to read your previous posts... it's an explosion of the brain, the summary of your posts: politics/money, money/politics, all will be bad, Bitcoin is Freedom, bad, bad, Bitcoin is Freedom, Better buy bitcoins, politics, all will be bad... I stop at 7th page  :(

PS: I don't understand why you decide to write something here, according history of your posts, BitShares not something which interested for you.

Apparently the man is a genius and I shouldn't question his infinite wisdom, but why is DPoS such a great idea? 100 voters to validate each block, right? You know what else has 100 voting members (and one extra for tie breakers) - the US Senate, a veritable model of efficiency and incorruptibility if there ever was one, right?

I concede DPOS as it stands in BitShare isn't perfect, not because of the 101 delegates but because of how little active voting stake is currently needed to select them. However looking at Bitcoin, how many men do you have to get to, to have 51% short term control of Bitcoin? Probably only 3/4 mining pool controllers.

Also I'm personally saying he's a genius in the area of development, that doesn't necessarily equate to being a marketing genius. I think this is where they are weak but they are still way ahead of any credible competitor.

Yeah sure. He is a genius in robbing you. ;)

Nobody is perfect.



Did one person not control 5 delegates?

Where are they going? To the slaughterhouse?

BitShares is absolutely a game changer and Dan Larimer truly is a financial/coding genius. Anyone FUDing/shouting scam now will be crying in a few months' time. Don't say I didn't warn ya.

No, BitSharesX holders don't have to do anything. It's just you've been diluted a bit.

However a lot of new features like BitShares DNS & Vote are going to be added to the platform.

As usual, hard to say who to believe.  I'm sorry to hear about the dilution.

BitUSD is only on Bter and BTC38?  Why is there so much Chinese support for this stuff?

The dilution is likely to be less than 2% per year, and goes directly to funding worthwhile projects (as voted on by the shareholders) to build the entire BTS ecosystem. This is way less than bitcoin's 8% dilution and the new money actually goes to increase shareholder value as opposed to waste it like bitcoin mining does. And the dilution is hard capped at 6.3%, but only the amount shareholders vote for will actually be diluted. Personally, I think the ability to fund BTS growth in this manner is absolutely a killer feature.

BitUSD is mainly traded on the internal BTS exchange; there's too little liquidity on Bter for it right now. That'll change with adoption.

Clearly this project is still standing behind the forum, when it takes public really we will see what happens!

This guys along with ethereum has the best bitcoin 2.0 project imho.

 So the fanboy/scammer of PTS & X comes running to their rescue by attacking the messenger when he doesn't approve. Wow, so original and pure genius. NOT!

 But it's so nice to know that you agree someone can have a different opinion and not be personally attacked. NOT. Get real jerk! Your a scammer and fully complicit and guilty of at least aiding and abetting.

 As for one's prior posts: here's yours:
Show the last posts of this person. (testz)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=105060;sa=showPosts

 Your (testz) is an obvious fanboy and insider? and are doing your best to deflect, misdirect, and obfuscate the facts and truth.

 And from the looks of it all you care about is selfish, greed, and scamming others. What a resume! Gotta hand it to ya! Ya got some nerve.

 And you went all the way to the 7th page of my prior posts? Wow, I must have really interesting posts! But not so with yours (testz).
How's that for attacking an obvious shill and fanboy of PTS & X.

 O, yea, one last thing. I have and do own PTS but finally it's obvious it's been a giant swindle and fraud, but I wont be dumping it onto another dupe because that would be very wrong.

 I will be seeing you and anyone else that is complicate enough at your trial(s) for stealing from shareholders. Your not big and bright enough to stay of regulators cross-hairs.

 (testz), what a joke. This is the best you have in any rebuttal?



 The likes of those very like yourself are extremely likely going to all be frogmarched to prisons where your kind all belong, along with heavy fines, severe claw-backs, and ruinous financial condition from merely the lawyers fees alone.



 This is pure selfish, greed, unfettered, and with loads of pure fraud, deceit, and swindle.

*********************************************************************************************************
 If they didn't have such a greed factor they would focus on building something instead of swindling others and coming up with ever more schemes and ever more swindles with ever more currencies while doing nothing else. ********************************
*************************************************************************

 It's okay to fail. It's okay to be an idiot. It's okay to be incompetent. It's okay to be outplayed and out foxed.

*******************************************************************************************************
But fraudulent swindles are not okay. And neither is cooking the books through ever more dilutions through ever more currencies and sub-currencies.****************************************************************************************
****************

 It's every Principles Fiduciary Duty to protect shareholders and even speculative investors from known and knowable harms.
*****************************************************************************************************
 Obviously they could care less about any and all fiduciary duties to anyone but themselves.



Bottom Line:

*******************************************************************************************
 All these idiots SEEM to care about is ripping off ever more victims instead of really, truly building anything at all.
*******************************************************************************************

 PTS & X are finally found by those shareholders like myself to be obvious scams, schemes, to fleece unsuspecting fools and dupes.
*********************************************************************************************************


 This sorta kinda a bit reminds me of the "no  promises at all" of Ethereum with their pay us now up front, and no promises or commitments, but we may or may not do something with all that money you suckers handed us prior to doing anything at all. But then at least Ethereum was wise enough to dot their i's and cross a few t's too. And not get stupid, selfish, greedy, fraudulent.

 Maybe Ethereum will prove to not be any scam or scheme. Hopefully. But it didn't pass any smell test with myself, and many others.


 Whereas BitShares PTS did at first seem and appear very legitimate, but in the end it proved it's e not even remotely doing anything but apparently swindling their way to dirty monies.

 BitShares PTS
http://bitshares.org/
https://bitsharestalk.org/
https://coinplorer.com/PTS




 Yes, Bitcoin is true monetary freedom.
=========================
But then that seems to upset certain types. No doubt (testz) was stupid enough to include that remark about this too. What an idiot.


 You idiots should not have done what you did. You will pay, and pay most severely for your frauds and swindles.

If I had to guess I would say your backgrounds are either in finance or banking associated with IT, likely both. Just before ending up as criminals here in cryptoland?? And just like the banks and central bankers your a crime still in progress too.

 But unlike them your not too big to go down hard. And yes, the SEC and other Regulators are listening, reading, and paying close attention HERE. Stick that where your head belongs, and where your head has been for the longest, idiots...

 You stole MY MONEY. YOU WILL PAY.

Is there any way to take a leveraged long (or short) position on bitshares?

Yes. Go short a BitAsset like BitUSD in the BitShares client.

(BitUSD is created when a long meets a short who provides 200% BTS collateral. The short makes money when BTS gains relative to BitUSD. So going short is a leveraged long position on BTS.)

@Slingshot

Are you aware PTS/AGS/DNS holders were gifted BTS and that is the reason for the dilution and PTS price declining?  It's simple to understand if you perform some due diligence on your investment.  They no longer need to support PTS and thus the focus is now on BTS completely.  This is a win-win for everyone.

http://bitshares.org/bitshares-reloaded/
Read the newsletter and you will understand no one got shafted.  More so these dev's are very public and have been speaking at important crypto events nationwide.

John Underwood would not waste his time if they were not a legitimate group of devs.  People also need to realize this is the wild west, they will not act like a fortune 500 company.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11125.0

@Slingshot
Now I know - you are the forum bot which like bitcoin  :)

I don't think this is quite accurate, because in the DPoS voting for delegates is a transaction, a transaction which the delegates themselves control, while in the bitcoin system miners are free to abandon a pool at any time, thus reducing their hashing power and influence (besides other major differences between PoW and modified PoS systems).

The short answer to your question is you are a idiot !!!
Nobody should bother even answering to such stupid posts...oh well,,,. There is not even a once of true in your delusional lie. I don't even know why answer  to such a scumbag like you are .. but I guess should be because when you see a idiot better call him out !!!
Should be hard to be you  man, you wake up in the morning and look yourself in the mirror  what you see ?
I can't believe you still here in this forum with this attitude.  Ohh yeah I'm a funboy !!!
 

=================================================================================

"Are you aware PTS/AGS/DNS holders were gifted BTS"
 Yes, I am fully aware and have been since day 1 concerning PTS.

"and that is the reason for the dilution and PTS price declining?"
 Yes, I am fully aware of the present scam to ripoff PTS shareholders.
 Yes, I am fully aware because of the current scam that
"...They no longer need to support PTS and thus the focus is now on BTS completely..."

"It's simple to understand"
 Yes, this scam on top of all the rest is quite simple to sum up.

" http://bitshares.org/bitshares-reloaded/ "
"Read the newsletter and you will understand no one got shafted."
 Yes, MANY got ROYALLY Shafted.
 That reloaded nonsense was what exactly? Ignoring the very
 "foundation" of Bitshares (PTS) is what.

"John Underwood would not waste his time if they were not a legitimate group of devs."
 So now your speaking for that man too? This implies this is what exactly? So since he
trusts in this we all should just blindly trust in this too? Get Real.

 And then (brekyrself) starts speaking out of the other side of his mouth by stating
this is "...this is the wild west, they will not act like a fortune 500 company..."

 Humm, might want to do your own due diligence on the fact of the matters
concerning that this really isn't the "wild west at all". And that all eyes are on scams
much like this one.

 And hey, if you have $800+ an hour team of lawyers that crossed ever i and dotted
every t then hey, maybe you too can get away with it. But when the regulators put
you clowns in their cross-hairs your likely not going to like it much and will realize just
like many others already realized it that this isn't the "wild west" at all.

 Many a boiler plate (two bit) lawyer will take your money, all while offering terrible
advice. But then young adults don't likely understand that much. But those SP500
companies? Yea, those? Yea, they have armies of lawyers, that they really can trust.

 What with all the high profile busts and take downs maybe you can get a sense that
examples are being made of anyone thinking they can steal by way of Crypto, or
commit money laundering by way of the dark-nonsense.

 You claim nothing is out of order. Others, including myself claim otherwise.
Houston WE have a serious malfunction!

 There is only ONE MOB I respect. I only respect the gavel and the badges because I
(and we) are forced to in this in our cold, cruel, evil, rotten, world.


 Now, speaking of brass knuckles:

When PTS started: here is a quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"BitShares (PTS) | Creating the foundation for profitable DACs"

http://bitshares.org/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Of course that's not the case any more is it?? That's fraud.

Or at least to myself and (very likely to other PTS shareholders) it reeks of fraud when
suddenly this new scam states elsewhere all of a sudden that...
"...They no longer need to support PTS and thus the focus is now on BTS completely..."

 So you burned it ALL DOWN, for nothing but an empty bag of scams that finally blew
the whole thing completely up. - that's my take. And surely others are running as fast
and furiously away from this entire mess termed BitShares*.*


PTS = 7% of Bitshares + (-72% devaluation of PTS, and of course now say what???
LIKE HELL IT DOESN'T


"...They no longer need to support PTS and thus the focus is now on BTS completely...")
Doesn't compute.

 And these two BILLION new shares are not minable, and instead conjured up midstream
suddenly, due to extreme greed?, and divided up amoungst mainly the scammers and
insiders? You guys...You guys...Your behaving just like the SP500 Board Members, many
whom are stealing from their own companies shareholders and even their own pensioners
(ex-employees). Really? What? Is that news? I hope not!!!
 
 Toss in there is 2 billion of these new "Bitshares" and wow, it's obvious that delusions of
grandeur are running wild in some peoples minds with that amount of dilution.

 Watch out BELOW, here comes THE DUMP...of the new "Bitshares" that have zero profits
and nothing but a lousy, hyped up marketing promo.

Again, the BOTTOM LINE:

 You lost many peoples confidence, plain and simple. And you absolutely lost me when
these fluff pieces touting what a wonderful thing this is for everyone involved, bla bla bla.
(At the links above).

 Did anyone even proof read this garbage at those links??? It's hard to even follow through
from day 1 to today. In fact I am still reeling trying to make sense of a lot of things but that
is AFTER THE FACT, instead of before dipping toes into the waters.

 Marketing? Genius? No. Horrible marketing, so convoluted it's revolting. Genius? Where?

 You think you can (scam) steal from senior shareholders that "are the foundation"? Really?

 Forgetaboutit. You guys just blew this all up, and it's 100% your faults.

 And it reeks so badly I doubt it will recover. But hey, there really is a sucker born every second.
So maybe so. Then again, I seriously think you young men screwed all the poodles and there
isn't any putting it all back now that confidence is shot.

 Just another Pump & Dump. Correction...a long series of scams and swindles with many Pumps
and Dumps. And nothing else but pie in the sky and NO PROFITS at all, from any DAC. Or did
you idiots forget about PROFITS?? And I am not talking about PUMP and DUMP scam currency
offerings either. But instead ongoing, legit, DAC PROFITS. (there are none).

 

zorco
Newbie
*
Activity: 20
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1     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: BitSharesX -- out of nowhere?    on: Today at 01:12:22 AM
Quote from: Slingshot on November 08, 2014, 06:19:34 AM
The short answer to your question is Daniel Larimer is anything but a genius.


 Fully agree with that. I don't like ANY of his recent decisions, or how the community is going ahead in malicious intent to scam, swindle and cheat all previous holders while grabbing as much stash for themselves as possible with the recent X share scam, and of course that isn't enough either (it never is for stupid/greedy scamming criminals) so alas their stealing more with more carnival scams by even more massive inflation / i.e. theft from shareholders.

 I'm especially unhappy with the aspects of the new dilution/inflation too. Most unhappy. But at least there will be a most happy ending. Read on...

 I can't deny though BitUSD, BitGold & BitSilver etc. are just more empty promises about a year later, with this series of newest scams now laid out and rolling along, and of course with ever more swindling of new fools and dupes as much as possible  that thought there were serious people instead of scam artists out to swindle from dupes and fools.

 These most obvious shills above call Daniel Larimer a genius. You have to be insane to state such a thing here.

 With nothing but hot air  and fluff, and with nothing adding any value what so ever with their actions going on a year now except for empty statements about remittances, online shopping, merchant & user adoption, a new website & even talk of a BitUSD debit card.

 JUST SHUT UP! Shut the fuck up already! These scammers deserve a microphone (extra large) up their bun-holes. And after all their about to be sharing prison cells with Buba for their criminal acts, a long list of them from the looks of things...But hey, maybe they can fool and dupe the SEC just as easy as many here??

 The nonsense replies above read like a horror show, or a really horrible attempt to RE-RE-RE-PUMP this now flee bag pile of scam-crap to ever more dupes and fools.

 Enough already. With the SEC hot on these clowns and jokers heels they are apt to be spending many a years behind bars for this kind of grand theft series of endless schemes and nothing but hot air amounting to nothing AT ALL. Or at least that's how many of us seeing this today, and many more will extremely fast!

 PTS  & X, we're so sorry...but we must steal ever more, so let's steal (inflate away) just like the FED, BOE, BOJ, BOC, and even soon the ECB. After all we're intitled to the fools and dupes money too? right? WRONG.


 SEC, are you listening?? Best put a red mark next to these obvious scamming thieves.


  Say what? Their called and termed Fiduciary duties geniuses!!! That has been in full breech for the longest with PTS, bla, bla, bla, and now X. Forgetaboutit, these are classic scam artists with a brand new twist and nothing else. Their a dime a dozen in these parts and this is exactly what this is too, imo, and I don't give a rats ass what anyone else thinks and states otherwise. This REEKS HORRIBLY.

 So let's feed them to the SEC whom is looking for many more perfect examples in these parts, and here we have many ALL IN ONE Giant series of scams that fooled many a fool and dupe.

 Never again assholes. NEVER AGAIN.

 Sell it all fools & dupes. And don't ever trust these crooks again.

 Last thought: be sure to be real nice to buba in that prison cell block...lol...I already hear the SEC laughing nonstop at these swindling, idiots. Daniel Larimer : What a genius. NOT. It's called stupid/greedy/scammer that crossed far too many lines to ignore anymore. And all involved parties did breech their  Fiduciary duties to their shareholders. But then this is a non-corporation that no one party owns. Tell that to the SEC bitches. And to Buba too, lol...


The short answer to your question is you are a idiot !!!
Nobody should bother even answering to such stupid posts...oh well,,,. There is not even a once of true in your delusional lie. I don't even know why answer  to such a scumbag like you are .. but I guess should be because when you see a idiot better call him out !!!
Should be hard to be you  man, you wake up in the morning and look yourself in the mirror  what you see ?
I can't believe you still here in this forum with this attitude.  Ohh yeah I'm a funboy !!!
 
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2     Other / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XOM] Pre-Release|Coin and P2P Marketplace|Anon|Escrows|Reputation|and More    on: November 08, 2014, 01:18:34 PM
Quote from: CLains on November 08, 2014, 03:31:18 AM
Only allowing wealthy investors fund your project, -8 points.

Kickstarter such that normal people get NO equity in your business, -7 points.

Forking BitShares code without mentioning BitShares explicitly even once, -8 points.

Not honoring the BitShares consensus of 10/10 to PTS/AGS holders, -6 points.

Screen shots that look horribly designed, -7 points.

Right on !!! I really don't get why they chose to do it this way. Good luck with that but no thanks. I will never support this in any way for the reason mentioned above.
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3     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Bitshares Newsletter (October) - Bitshares Merger & Self Funded Growth    on: November 02, 2014, 12:55:21 PM
Like it. Not a easy decision this merger but it looks very promising.
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4     Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is this the reason the bitcoin price has not exploded yet in 2014?    on: September 16, 2014, 07:20:25 AM
Interesting. Indeed there are some really big problems with POW,  it will takes some time to really see it, a lot of people are in denial but sooner or later it will be so obvious that it could not be ignored anymore.
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5     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Bitshares - The Great Satan on the Blockchain    on: August 22, 2014, 03:24:48 PM
Quote from: PilotofBTC on August 22, 2014, 02:53:28 PM

So, the whole bitshares concept could have been done on the NXT blockchain using NXT as the store of value and creating a bitUSD asset. (I assume they didn't cause the devs could create BTSX's for free.)


Probably but there are a lot of differences still, Bitshare use DPOS you have a transaction speed of 10 sec. You have the delegates,you have dividends that are payde to shareholders  etc. 

"the hole bitshare concept" - Bitshare X is the first DAC  the first of many to come that are using  bitshare toolkit : Bitshare Dns, Bitshare Music, Bitshare Play, follow my Vote etc. My point is Bitshare concept is much more then Bitshare X so there are more differences that you can see at first glance.
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6     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Bitshares - The Great Satan on the Blockchain    on: August 22, 2014, 02:45:24 PM
Quote from: TaunSew on August 22, 2014, 02:36:23 PM

The first mover advantage is great but what stops NXT from doing their own collateral or pegging system or a near-equivalent thereof? 


Nobody it stopping them hope they gonna do it !! Nobody stopped people copying  bitcoin either.


Quote from: TaunSew on August 22, 2014, 02:36:23 PM

It's a question of IF something brings utility to the mass market and if the mass market is utilizing this service

The utility is here : "it's just an amazing way to store the value of assets in a decentralised way that's never been possible before!"

Truth will see how the mass market reacts.
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7     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Bitshares - The Great Satan on the Blockchain    on: August 22, 2014, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: PilotofBTC on August 22, 2014, 02:17:48 PM
Quote from: zorco on August 22, 2014, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: PilotofBTC on August 22, 2014, 02:08:54 PM
My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

What gives bitcoin  intrinsic value ?

Nothing?
lol well for this "nothing" people are paying 500$ a piece.  The  intrinsic value is Block chain technology and what you can do with it.
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8     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Bitshares - The Great Satan on the Blockchain    on: August 22, 2014, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: PilotofBTC on August 22, 2014, 02:08:54 PM
My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

What gives bitcoin  intrinsic value ?
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9     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: [Bitshares] The Great Satan on the Blockchain    on: August 22, 2014, 02:01:08 PM
Quote from: ChuckOne on August 22, 2014, 01:08:39 PM
Quote from: StanLarimer on August 22, 2014, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: ChuckOne on August 22, 2014, 11:27:40 AM
Actually, I do not speculate on things like those but regarding the recent upsurge of the trust in BitShares I am curious about the opinion and insights of others.

I mean how could anybody in the crypto community would want to mirror the FED?

I cannot believe that to be true.

Precisely.  Anyone who has done their homework and spent any time at all on bitsharestalk.org over the past year knows that BitShares is the antidote to the Federal Reserve's 100+ years of economic atrocities.   Smiley

But do yourselves a favor and study before you decide if this is the Next Big Thing or not. 

"Knowledge and Understanding is the ultimate Proof of Work."  Smiley

I am not sure if it is an antidote or just a replacement that changes nothing.

Not sure if you read http://invictus-innovations.com/bitshares-as-dac-bank/

But fractional reserve lending is about robbing the wealth of others. I am not sure if that is in the best interest of the crypto community.
lol so you read that article and you are saying  that : "how could anybody in the crypto community would want to mirror the FED?" ...  I'm sorry but you completely got it wrong. You probably should read it again.
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10     Other / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: FollowMyVote // BitShares Vote    on: August 14, 2014, 12:25:27 PM
Love it !!
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11     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Coins To take seriously:    on: August 14, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
Transaction time 10 sec it is a different experience then any other coin..... wait BTSX it is not a coin it is a Bank and decentralized exchange !!!  BitAssets just around the corner, bitUSD anyone ?
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12     Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Where should i invest my bitcoins ? Wanna daily income    on: August 13, 2014, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: timmy1979222 on July 11, 2014, 01:43:09 PM
Quote from: mavromixalakis on July 11, 2014, 01:40:39 PM
Invest in bitshares x and receive dividends.

sry, never heard, what is that?where do i get that, any website?

here : http://bitshares-x.info/  it is absolutely brilliant and it only came out like a few weeks ago.
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13     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Coins To take seriously:    on: August 12, 2014, 10:53:21 PM
 Grin There is a big story behind PTS, your's to discover !!
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14     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: The VOTE DAC - BitShares-PTS Snapshot Date 21st Aug    on: August 12, 2014, 10:27:58 PM
This looks really interesting. This think could really change the status quo !!!
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15     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Official BitShares X support thread. [BTSX]    on: August 12, 2014, 10:17:41 PM
We need BitUsd this it is so much bigger then Oversotck !!! I'm pretty sure this will change the crypto world as we know it.
Can't believe it people are still going for meaningless coins and missing the big picture !!!
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16     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: DUAL snapshot for BitShares PTS!    on: August 12, 2014, 10:07:02 PM
Yeap I'm buying too. Don't think AGS is relevant anymore. IMHO because you can't donate to Ags anyway so it confuse people more then else. PTS that the way to go. This is what is amazing about Bitshares.. you could still invest in any new DAC that is coming out, that's brilliant still !!
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17     Other / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: FollowMyVote // BitShares Vote    on: August 12, 2014, 09:56:15 PM
Quote from: Indemnified on August 12, 2014, 07:59:52 PM
Is this DAC a pure public service, or is it meant to operate at a profit?

Every Dac that is using Bitshare is meant to operate as a profit for the shareholders
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18     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: New Bitshares Website Launched 21th March!    on: March 22, 2014, 11:31:27 AM
Looks very good. Lots of information there tough. So Bitshares is is a opens source platform kind of like Etherum but instead having one block chain to rule them all you have many specialized(finance,games)  block chains ?
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19     Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: BitShares XT - Security against Market Manipulation FIND ATTACKS FOR TIPS    on: March 22, 2014, 11:16:04 AM
Where can I find Bitshare XT whitepaper ?
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20     Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Bitshares DNS: Profitable (?!). Disinsentives squatting. Well-funded.    on: March 22, 2014, 11:09:29 AM
This looks interesting. What are the advantages to Namecoin  ?
Not sure I understand how Bitshare DNS solve the problems of Domain Squatting ?

==================================================================================


 Thank You.

Yeah but a delegate is only signing <1% of transactions. Also if they ever exclude transactions they'll be voted out quite quickly. A bigger problem is that people don't really want to vote that often so very little active voting stake is needed to gain short term control of the system. Hopefully simpler ways to vote as well as perhaps incentives provided by some delegates will improve that over time.

Haha, Slingshot I already stated that I'm a fanboy, But still I'm impressed the time you put to prove you are not a idiot but  I'm not convinced sorry.

It's had a shifty business model and shifty direction of the platform and a shifty final product that still isn't clear yet.

It may very well end up being successful. As far as I know some of the functions are working most of the time as of now. But I'm still going to wait and see it in full action. Or I'll just wait until blockstream releases sidechains and somebody clones bitshares using btc as a backing and locks it into the side of Bitcoin

Slightshot

1.
You are making a lot of "scam" claims and not provided any single piece evidence.  Show us some malicious intent by the devs.  They have been nothing but open, honest, and go to great lengths to accept community feedback.  Did you ever post your concerns on www.bitsharestalk.org or join their live WEEKLY mumble session?

2.
You quoted TaunSew, a known troll.  Really?

3.
You stated you hold/held PTS, can you explain CLEARLY in one sentence or two why you are so angry?  If you held PTS, you acquired shares in multiple DAC's which have all been rolled into one main DAC.  Were you looking for 3rd party DAC's to honor your PTS?  You now hold BTS that uses DPOS, has a built in derivatives exchange, and will be adding new voting options both for delegate and as a vote DAC.

4.
http://followmyvote.com/follow-my-vote-joins-cavo/

5.
This board has turned into bag holders hating on others technology instead of appreciating dev's pushing the limits of blockchain technology which will benefit everyone.  If you do not agree with BitShares, either do not buy any or go short, simple solution.

Why shouldn't we discuss the possible shortcomings of competing technologies? It's not like this is a forum for exactly that...oh wait, it is ::)

99% of these threads are not discussion, just people posting scam this, scam that without actually discussing anything!  I'm all for talking about technology and or positives and negatives.

The thread started out as a general question about BitsharesX. Slingshot has been interjecting with some long-winded diatribes, but I think I've had a decent discussion with FandangledGizmo. It just seems stupid to tell people to shut up on a forum - it's a forum, for voicing one's opinion. What good would a forum be if everyone just quietly bought and sold, i.e. "If you do not agree with BitShares, either do not buy any or go short, simple solution."

I have a couple questions

How does Bitshares manage it's Blockchain growth and storage over time? What happens to low volume markets?

1. Not sure, with the 101 delegate system, I think the theory is the average user will not have to download the entire blockchain, I see parts of it are discussed here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9204.0, maybe someone else can give a better answer.

2. There is a requirement for all shorts to cover every 30 days, so even if you bought an asset in a low volume market you should be able to get fair value for it. I imagine a market can also be discontinued with notice if there was really low volume.

It always seems all the good information on these projects is hard to find.

I find bloat and efficiency to be one of the most defining factors but when I have time I'll do some more research into the project. I really like where it's heading in terms of technology, profitability and it's DAC system.

What was the timeline of transitions between coins? was memorycoin ever a part of protoshares? and protoshares became bitshares? What happens to people who still own the old coin?

This might not be accurate, I'm just someone that owns some BTS, so I don't know everything about the project.

Protoshares (PTS) was the first thing they created, but once they realised POW was inferior and that they needed more funding to build the first DACs they created AngelShares too. So originally the idea was that AGS & PTS would get a decent stake in DACs the BitShares Devs and community funding helped start and if any independent third parties wanted to use that toolkit or a lot of the underlying technology they were asked to sharedrop 10% on PTS & 10% on AGS to get the community and developers support.

An independent developer FreeTrade was just a third party that share dropped on AGS & PTS for his MMC, MMC2 & LTS projects, I don't think any were particularly successful and there was some controversy surrounding some. I never looked into them much their CAPs were too small to interest me.

Other projects more linked to the BitShares team share dropped bigger amounts on AGS & PTS, they have the 'BitShares' in their name. like BitShares DNS (Namecoin killer, $6 million CAP pre-merger http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=qeweF05tT50 ) BitShares Vote, BitShares Music http://peertracks.com/  & BitShares Play.

Of course the big one so far was BTSX that was awarded 50/50 to AGS & PTS holders on 28/02/14.

The main developer realised though that a lot of the DACs would end up being competitors rather than complimentary because the killer app is BitAssets like BitUSD http://whatisbitusd.com/, so you really want one main DAC that maximises network effect and bootstraps one DACs BitAssets to the entire world, so they decided to merge DNS, Vote, AGS & PTS into one main SuperDAC - 'BitShares' at no.4

Any shares you own in any of the merged DACs will be made easily accessible and released linearly over two years. Except BTSX those stay trading just the same as its blockchain forms the base of BitShares, it's just been diluted a bit to bring in the other DACs. The most recent newsletter covers a lot of it, a little bit 'cheerleader' for my taste but http://bitshares.org/bitshares-reloaded/

Another big change is the new BitShares has dilution, it's max is less than Bitcoin, probably much less than that in practice and unlike Bitcoin where it gets paid to miners, it's voted on by shareholders and released via delegates to fund development, marketing & charity but shareholders can also choose no dilution at all. (So anybody can get BTS but not for having the most expensive mining machine but rather for do something useful and valuable that the BitShares community wants to support or that they think will add value to BTS.)

There is some code in the toolkit for relaying encrypted mail, which will be used for messaging between users on the blockchain as well as broadcasting transactions to light weight clients. I believe this is one of the techniques they plan to utilize for dealing with a bloated chain.

https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/wiki/BitShares-Mail
https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/tree/bitshares/libraries/mail

Market assets require at least 51 delegates to be producing a price feed for said asset to enable trading. So markets can be phased in as the demand comes for them. If a low volume market is trading and stays low volume, I would assume it just remains so until interest in that market picks up.

I am no expert either, don't own any and only loosely followed the story, but I have followed it since PTS was being mined.  Your account generally covers how I remember things unfolding. 

Thanks for the very informative explanation, looks like the project is progressing well despite a few bumps in the road. I'll go through everything when I have more time but I can see why there is so much interest in Bitshares, even if some may have gotten a raw deal down the track you can't deny that they are making some good headway and doing well.

How have they achieved their incredible marketcap though?  It sounds like it may be a great project but the marketcap is just incredible, especially considering how quickly it's been achieved.  And BitSharesX does have competitors who were fairly well-established first.  I don't think I buy the "because it's so great" argument here.  There must be something else at play.

Well when it was just an idea in Daniels big brain, people were paying a $30 million CAP at the end of February & now he's actually delivered it with 10 second, private  transactions and working BitAssets, so I think it's actually undervalued now. The merger also brings in BitShares DNS which is a Namecoin killer and had a $6 million CAP before the merger was announced as well as BitShares Vote, which Daniel is excited about though I don't understand the potential yet.

For me the valuation secret here is BitAssets like BitUSD.

When you think of normal user issued assets on NXT for example, (Which BTS has too)  NXT users only get a transaction fee, so even though there are $12 million+ worth of NXT assets, NXT is still only worth circa $20 million because they only directly benefit from their assets transaction fees & perhaps a bit of network effect.

BitAssets let you store the value of a dollar/gold/silver/stocks/commodities in a decentralised way which is sick. 'Game changer' gets so overused in crypto, but solving the volatility problem is huge.

The real value part though is that to create BitAssets requires a long to purchase them using BitShares and a short to provide 2X that value in BitShares collateral.

So $1 million worth of new external BitUSD demand adds $2 million+ to the CAP of BitShares not just a few thousand dollars worth of transaction fees :)

There's $1 million BitUSD in circulation today, imagine if by the end of the year it's $3 million then $10 million by March then... You'll see that if BitAsset demand is growing, depending how far forward investors value BitShares the market CAP could get MASSIVE very quick on anticipation of future demand.

They're not even on version 1.0 & they're only starting to market BitAssets to the world in December, targeting fiat on ramps, merchant adoption, consumer incentives incl. perhaps a BitUSD debit card, they have a partner in global remittances and a campaign geared towards Argentina and are considering Russia where inflation and limited access to alternatives will make BitAssets like BitUSD the nuts.

For me the biggest headwind is their new dilution system. It's very low &  necessary to fund some of the development, lightweight clients & marketing etc. but I'm concerned how the market will view it, (BTSX was actually at $55 million at the beginning of Oct and people worried about the merger/dilution has effected the price.) There's also not that much stake voting atm which could create centralisation concerns though nothing like Bitcoin mining pools. Easier ways to vote, easy offline signing options and voting incentives should improve that though in the coming months.

Having said, I've been back on the Bitcoin forum this last week to see what's out there but it's really still BitAssets all the way for me. You especially want to be in them now for the marketing push starting in December imo.

BitSharesX had a marketcap of $30M in February before any code was released?  It's $38M now and it looks like $30M wouldn't even move it out of 4th place on coinmarketcap.  How can a coin attract that much investment without releasing code?

Well that was the valuation donaters were paying right at the end of Feb before the cut off for BTSX allocation.
The crypto market was also more bullish then I guess, Bitcoin was at $750-900 during their donation period.

I suppose you could argue if it had been like today's market back at the beginning of the year they may have valued it a lot lower.

(PTS got 50% of BTSX shares on 28/02/14. You can see PTS had a $25 million CAP that day then a $10 million one right after, indicating $15 million of value for 50% of BTSX hence a $30 million valuation back then.)

Probably for some of the same reasons that the largest portion of value flowing into BTC is from China. A large quantity of people are interested in crypto over there.

http://fiatleak.com/

BitShares has a large and active Chinese community. The official client was historically released by DACSunLimited (Hong Kong company that released the official BitSharesX code, a fork of the BitShares repo). I think the official release branch may be migrating into the newly renamed development repo (https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares) but I am unsure if they are consolidating the release process with the recent merger (read more here: http://bitshares.org/bitshares-reloaded/) or just renaming the repo that core development is committed to.

There are Chinese news sites like http://www.bts.hk/ and groups on QQ to talk about BTS. There are community members that help translate English and Chinese to bridge communication gaps. It is interesting see how their culture differs from the West by deciphering some of the Chinese posts on bitsharestalk.org with translation extensions.

Also, the Play DAC team is based in China (more info: http://playshare.io/index.php and http://bitsharesplayfoundation.org/en/).

So to answer your question, my theory is that BitShares is more popular in the East compared to West currently, and more value is being moved around by Chinese smart money / early adopters. Also the exchanges with the most BTS(X) liquidity are Chinese (bter, yunbi, and btc38). Consequentially, most people trading BitShares use those sites.

Do we know why Chinese investors were attracted to BitSharesX instead of the other 2.0 platforms?

Great question. I started looking at DACs and BitShares back in July, so I am relatively a latecomer compared to others in the community. My personal beliefs are that they have had better success with grassroots marketing. There are some BTS memes like "BTS worth 1 USD properly, properly" and there is more social engagement / 3rd party websites regarding BTS, so you can see they have already have an established BTS community. Also I'm pretty sure the developer of http://www1.agsexplorer.com/ is Chinese. Maybe it is because they view it as a smart investment? BitAssets have the potential to be very useful after all.

What does that mean?

And what's the use if I have
 a) gold, or
 b) bitsharesX coins, or
 c) dollars

If you look on the asset page you'll see there's already  BitUSD, BitGold, BitCNY & BitBTC trading. They're still new, except for BitUSD they're still low volume and not very liquid. http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/views/all/

In the BitShares client you can buy any of those things and it holds the value & earns interest.

Some examples of their uses...

1. BitUSD
 - in countries like Argentina, they have a lot of inflation but access to dollars is limited and Bitcoin is too volatile, BitUSD helps them.
- Merchants sell for Bitcoin but then they use BitPay to convert straight to fiat because of volatility. With BitUSD they can sell for BitUSD and stay in BitUSD :)


2. BitGold
- Like gold but worried about it getting confiscated, or banks/exchanges going insolvent? Keep the value of some of your gold and whatever price it goes to in BitGold and take it anywhere in the world and earn interest instead of paying storage fees.

3. BitBTC
- Like Bitcoin? Buy BitBTC it keeps the same value as Bitcoin and earns interest.
You can also send it in 10 seconds vs. 10-30 minutes.

You can trade them on bter too but not very liquid at all yet. At the end of this month and December, BitShares will start marketing them to the world. (fiat on-ramps, merchant and consumer adoption, remittances, country specific use cases, possibly a BitAsset debit card etc.)

Who is holding USD and gold and BTC that will exchange with us as promised?

afaik there's no actual assets backing any of them, they're just supposed to be floating pegs that will "rationally" follow the real-world markets.

That's the awesome thing. It's the first completely decentralised system. When a BitAsset is created, 2X the value of that asset worth of BitShares is posted by a short as collateral, as this is happening whenever trades occur, BitAssets like BitUSD are constantly fully backed by a lot of BitShares.

A normal bank works on a fractional reserve. They only have maybe 10-20% worth of actual assets to back up their deposits (or less...) but in BitShares the assets are backed by locked up BitShares worth circa 200% the value of the deposits (BitAssets) on average.

(So at the moment you'd trade your 100 BitUSD for a $100 worth of BitShares and exit to real dollars via Bitcoin but there could potentially be on-ramps in December and as they get more popular third parties will interact with them directly in the coming months.)

This is true, the on chain market rules are such that they maintain a nash equilibrium for shorts and longs to trade around the price of the commodity the BitAsset is tracking, so that those that trade away from it are likely to lose. This is why there is no counterparty risk when holding BitAssets in a local wallet, similar to any crypto. As soon as you put your crypto coins on a centralized exchange or issue them as IOUs for some asset in reserve, you have to trust the counterparty won't be compromised.

If the free market values BitAssets around the commodity price (which it has been doing well for bitUSD), I am sure you will see on ramps into / out of precious metals. The bitUSD on and off ramps will be available around the time the BitShares marketing push happens this Q4.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.



But with BTC they can sell for BTC and stay in BTC, so what is the use of BitUSD?
EDIT: ok so 1 BitUSD = 1 USD? And that will work as long as there's enough money behind the system, and until there isn't, it comes crashing down?



I don't get it. I have a gold bar how do I convert that to BitGold?



So that is like a sidechain for BTC, except it pays interest? On average, if I convert for example 10 BTC to BitBTC and back, do I end up with 10 BTC or 9.5 BTC?


Sorry for stupid questions!

1. Yes BitUSD is better than BTC. Merchants work on small profit margins so they can't stay in Bitcoin because of volatility. (Which is why more shops using Bitcoin doesn't help Bitcoin that much, most shops accept it as payment then convert straight to fiat via BitPay.)

If the system comes crashing down - unlike NuBits which isn't backed, BitAssets are backed by a lot of BitShares. Only a 65% BitShares flash crash (in an hour) could apparently be a concern, it's extremely unlikely & even that wouldn't crash the system, it would only result in a small % of the BitAsset being unbacked and they would be bought up again using transaction fees. It's a good question, I might have got some of that wrong there are some threads on it on the forum, I'll post if I see them.

2. BitGold. ATM you would buy say an ounce of BitGold for $1150 worth of BitShares if gold doubled in value you'd be able to sell it for $2300 worth of BitShares then you exit to fiat and buy a real gold ounce. In future though third parties should interact directly, so a vault may let you buy gold in exchange for BitGold.

3. BitBTC (Yes it's the BitAsset that tracks and stores the value of Bitcoin.) I don't know the conversion cost from BitBTC to actual Bitcoin but I'm sure even now it's <1% depending on the exchange.
So provided the BitBTC interest rate is >1%, BitBTC might be worth considering. I don't know what the average interest rate is atm, they only introduced the new system in the last few weeks but it should be very attractive.

Bitshares is similar to a derivatives market.  You can think of it as taking a loan out against your house (BitShares) and buying another asset with that liquid cash (BitBTC).  The built in exchange is completely backed by BitShares and has built in mechanisms to prevent fraud and abuse.

This lets you speculate and play the market while not forcing you to have money on a 3rd party service.  Do you think BTC will rise in value vs Bitshares, if so buy BitBTC and trade back for a profit later.  On the other hand you can also leverage your investment and go short by providing 200% collateral on your BitShares vs any asset.

Bitshares is A LOT to take in and it's best to download the wallet to visualize what is going on.  The built in market is just the tip of the iceberg when you start to think of the benefits of bitUSD or BitEURO when it comes to international business or personal wealth.  The market pegs have been holding steady and now just needs some massive volume to see if it can take the heat!

Are you a PTS holder? I bought PTS at 0.02 BTC/PTS back in Nov 2013, and held till the Nov 5th, 2014 snapshot, then sold all immediately after the snapshot for 0.0026 BTC/PTS

So, my total investment cost was 0.0174 BTC/PTS. Now let's see what I got from each PTS:
* 644 BTS from February 2014 snapshot
* 1176 DNS and VOTE from dual snapshot, which now both converted to about 40 BTS total
* another 100 BTS from Nov 5th 2014 merger snapshot

So total of 784 BTS, which is currently worth 0.04 BTC, for my original investment cost of 0.0174 BTC.

Also since I held through the "play" snapshot, my PTS address would still be eligible for that too, though it haven't even been properly valued yet, I'm sure it'll worth something.

I wouldn't really call a 200%+ return in a year, "fucked". If you are PTS holder, I'm really curious what you did to feel "fucked" by holding PTS. Because if you bought PTS at nearly any point in the past year, and held till now, you would have made money (in term of BTC).

BitAssets  are like the benefits of crypto tech without the wild volatility. If implemented properly I can see it being used widely and even used to store.

BitsharesX is a crypto coin with extra volatility as a small group which includes the developers tries to squeeze the maximum profits by pumping and dumping.

Scams usually do come out of nowhere and claim their crypto is undervalued and will triple in price then take over bitcoin. If you can't see this is a scam you deserve to be scammed

A few months old "nxt lover" account that declared war on bitshares

Tiny Eye

Their board shows 7600+ members with 142,344 posts, I would not consider that small for an alt.  Please show us proof the devs pumping and dumping, they are some of the only ones NOT hiding behind a anonymous forum handle.  Dan is very well respected and speaks at many national crypto conferences.

Here is his Keynote speech at Beyond Bitcoin in Vegas recently.
http://youtu.be/U44MujtVj00

Nice attack. Do you not like when sometimes questions something where you invested? Money can strongly bias anybody, including myself.

Look at the board, half are crying that they have been screwed and the other half reluctantly toeing the party line as they have no choice. In the midst a few are laughing.

I am laughing too, as I was keeping a close eye and traded accordingly, so thank you.

You will give us the links for the half which "crying that they have been screwed" or it's simple #psaking?  :)

PS: Half from "142451 Posts in 9961 Topics by 7645 Members" should be at least 70000+?

Who's attacking?  I am just asking for proof to your ridiculous statements in all these threads.  You make claims and never back anything up.  Please, I am looking for an educational debate, not someone trolling.

Look at the bolded part.

I have backed up many times. I think it was you who was asking to show proof of the developer earning a million BTSX off others and I pointed to that post.

Are you saying the group over there was happy? Some were, all those who were benefiting. The rest either started crying or ended up reluctantly accepting as they had no other option. The developers blatantly flouted the social contract they themselves made up and screwed their original loyalists who had invested in PTS. Not to mention all those who bought DNS at almost 3 times the price before snapshot.

The new compromise was no easy task however it was clear the dev's could not move from project to project instead needed one main DAC with all the feature sets of the individual DAC's (Vote, DNS, Play, etc...)  All in all, no one really got screwed as anyone who held PTS through the BTSX snapshot or the more recent DNS snapshot has made money.

DNS was a tricky compromise since that DAC was launched and trading on exchanges.  Holders however will be gifted BTS according the newsletter.  According to Stan "
The percentage numbers in this table trace the snapshot shares back to where they originally came from for the purposes of demonstrating indirect honoring of PTS/AGS. DNS sold prior to proposal announcement still benefited the sellers and the buyers before that date will receive a small adjustment from other funds."

http://bitshares.org/bitshares-reloaded/
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0


I believe the most important point people are missing about this change is the paid delegate system.  This provides a way for dev's, marketers, or anyone providing value to BitShares to be paid directly by the blockchain.  Stake holders will vote in these dev's as delegates who can earn up to 50bts per block.  If this works, it will attract top talented dev's to work on BitShares and get paid by being a delegate.  Win win for everyone involved.

There is no doubt that all those who follow closely made a profit in the deal. Its the average investors who got screwed, as clearly demonstrated by all the dumping.

They are still crying, the feeling of being screwed has not left https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11235.0

Now were having a meaningful conversation :)

You can't please everyone and in the thread linked it's about PTS/AGS stake in the play dac.  I recall the social contract for AGS/PTS being at least 10% in future dac's which they are receiving roughly 12.5% in the play dac.  More so they have now been maid liquid in BTS, thus I am not sure where all the hate is coming from.  The idea behind pts/ags was always for 3rd party dac's to gain an easy on ramp of users if the dev chose to use the BitShares code.  Now 3rd party dev's can simply target bts for an airdrop bringing in a huge client base.

What's amazing to me is that in the last few hours when BTC was rising, anyone could have simply used BitShares to go long on BitBTC and made a solid profit while never having to use a 3rd party exchange...

TinyEye

What's your thoughts on this move?

"Invictus Innovations to Return PTS Donations"
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11289.0

Smart move by the developers. I think you know why they are doing that.
If on the way they get some good press about some altruistic motive then its a bonus.