BitSharesX -- out of nowhere?

[illodin]

BitAssets let you store the value of a dollar/gold/silver/stocks/commodities in a decentralised way which is sick.

What does that mean?

And what's the use if I have
 a) gold, or
 b) bitsharesX coins, or
 c) dollars

[FandangledGizmo]

BitAssets let you store the value of a dollar/gold/silver/stocks/commodities in a decentralised way which is sick.

What does that mean?

And what's the use if I have
 a) gold, or
 b) bitsharesX coins, or
 c) dollars

If you look on the asset page you'll see there's already  BitUSD, BitGold, BitCNY & BitBTC trading. They're still new, except for BitUSD they're still low volume and not very liquid. http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/views/all/

In the BitShares client you can buy any of those things and it holds the value & earns interest.

Some examples of their uses...

1. BitUSD
 - in countries like Argentina, they have a lot of inflation but access to dollars is limited and Bitcoin is too volatile, BitUSD helps them.
- Merchants sell for Bitcoin but then they use BitPay to convert straight to fiat because of volatility. With BitUSD they can sell for BitUSD and stay in BitUSD


2. BitGold
- Like gold but worried about it getting confiscated, or banks/exchanges going insolvent? Keep the value of some of your gold and whatever price it goes to in BitGold and take it anywhere in the world and earn interest instead of paying storage fees.

3. BitBTC
- Like Bitcoin? Buy BitBTC it keeps the same value as Bitcoin and earns interest.
You can also send it in 10 seconds vs. 10-30 minutes.

You can trade them on bter too but not very liquid at all yet. At the end of this month and December, BitShares will start marketing them to the world. (fiat on-ramps, merchant and consumer adoption, remittances, country specific use cases, possibly a BitAsset debit card etc.)

[bitcoinrocks]

Who is holding USD and gold and BTC that will exchange with us as promised?

[jwinterm]

Who is holding USD and gold and BTC that will exchange with us as promised?

afaik there's no actual assets backing any of them, they're just supposed to be floating pegs that will "rationally" follow the real-world markets.

[FandangledGizmo]

Who is holding USD and gold and BTC that will exchange with us as promised?

That's the awesome thing. It's the first completely decentralised system. When a BitAsset is created, 2X the value of that asset worth of BitShares is posted by a short as collateral, as this is happening whenever trades occur, BitAssets like BitUSD are constantly fully backed by a lot of BitShares.

A normal bank works on a fractional reserve. They only have maybe 10-20% worth of actual assets to back up their deposits (or less...) but in BitShares the assets are backed by locked up BitShares worth circa 200% the value of the deposits (BitAssets) on average.

(So at the moment you'd trade your 100 BitUSD for a $100 worth of BitShares and exit to real dollars via Bitcoin but there could potentially be on-ramps in December and as they get more popular third parties will interact with them directly in the coming months.)

[robrigo]

Who is holding USD and gold and BTC that will exchange with us as promised?

afaik there's no actual assets backing any of them, they're just supposed to be floating pegs that will "rationally" follow the real-world markets.

This is true, the on chain market rules are such that they maintain a nash equilibrium for shorts and longs to trade around the price of the commodity the BitAsset is tracking, so that those that trade away from it are likely to lose. This is why there is no counterparty risk when holding BitAssets in a local wallet, similar to any crypto. As soon as you put your crypto coins on a centralized exchange or issue them as IOUs for some asset in reserve, you have to trust the counterparty won't be compromised.

If the free market values BitAssets around the commodity price (which it has been doing well for bitUSD), I am sure you will see on ramps into / out of precious metals. The bitUSD on and off ramps will be available around the time the BitShares marketing push happens this Q4.

[illodin]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

1. BitUSD
 - in countries like Argentina, they have a lot of inflation but access to dollars is limited and Bitcoin is too volatile, BitUSD helps them.
- Merchants sell for Bitcoin but then they use BitPay to convert straight to fiat because of volatility. With BitUSD they can sell for BitUSD and stay in BitUSD

But with BTC they can sell for BTC and stay in BTC, so what is the use of BitUSD?
EDIT: ok so 1 BitUSD = 1 USD? And that will work as long as there's enough money behind the system, and until there isn't, it comes crashing down?

2. BitGold
- Like gold but worried about it getting confiscated, or banks/exchanges going insolvent? Keep the value of some of your gold and whatever price it goes to in BitGold and take it anywhere in the world and earn interest instead of paying storage fees.

I don't get it. I have a gold bar how do I convert that to BitGold?

3. BitBTC
- Like Bitcoin? Buy BitBTC it keeps the same value as Bitcoin and earns interest.
You can also send it in 10 seconds vs. 10-30 minutes.

So that is like a sidechain for BTC, except it pays interest? On average, if I convert for example 10 BTC to BitBTC and back, do I end up with 10 BTC or 9.5 BTC?


Sorry for stupid questions!

[FandangledGizmo]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

1. BitUSD
 - in countries like Argentina, they have a lot of inflation but access to dollars is limited and Bitcoin is too volatile, BitUSD helps them.
- Merchants sell for Bitcoin but then they use BitPay to convert straight to fiat because of volatility. With BitUSD they can sell for BitUSD and stay in BitUSD

But with BTC they can sell for BTC and stay in BTC, so what is the use of BitUSD?
EDIT: ok so 1 BitUSD = 1 USD? And that will work as long as there's enough money behind the system, and until there isn't, it comes crashing down?

2. BitGold
- Like gold but worried about it getting confiscated, or banks/exchanges going insolvent? Keep the value of some of your gold and whatever price it goes to in BitGold and take it anywhere in the world and earn interest instead of paying storage fees.

I don't get it. I have a gold bar how do I convert that to BitGold?

3. BitBTC
- Like Bitcoin? Buy BitBTC it keeps the same value as Bitcoin and earns interest.
You can also send it in 10 seconds vs. 10-30 minutes.

So that is like a sidechain for BTC, except it pays interest? On average, if I convert for example 10 BTC to BitBTC and back, do I end up with 10 BTC or 9.5 BTC?


Sorry for stupid questions!

1. Yes BitUSD is better than BTC. Merchants work on small profit margins so they can't stay in Bitcoin because of volatility. (Which is why more shops using Bitcoin doesn't help Bitcoin that much, most shops accept it as payment then convert straight to fiat via BitPay.)

If the system comes crashing down - unlike NuBits which isn't backed, BitAssets are backed by a lot of BitShares. Only a 65% BitShares flash crash (in an hour) could apparently be a concern, it's extremely unlikely & even that wouldn't crash the system, it would only result in a small % of the BitAsset being unbacked and they would be bought up again using transaction fees. It's a good question, I might have got some of that wrong there are some threads on it on the forum, I'll post if I see them.

2. BitGold. ATM you would buy say an ounce of BitGold for $1150 worth of BitShares if gold doubled in value you'd be able to sell it for $2300 worth of BitShares then you exit to fiat and buy a real gold ounce. In future though third parties should interact directly, so a vault may let you buy gold in exchange for BitGold.

3. BitBTC (Yes it's the BitAsset that tracks and stores the value of Bitcoin.) I don't know the conversion cost from BitBTC to actual Bitcoin but I'm sure even now it's <1% depending on the exchange.
So provided the BitBTC interest rate is >1%, BitBTC might be worth considering. I don't know what the average interest rate is atm, they only introduced the new system in the last few weeks but it should be very attractive.

[brekyrself]

Bitshares is similar to a derivatives market.  You can think of it as taking a loan out against your house (BitShares) and buying another asset with that liquid cash (BitBTC).  The built in exchange is completely backed by BitShares and has built in mechanisms to prevent fraud and abuse.

This lets you speculate and play the market while not forcing you to have money on a 3rd party service.  Do you think BTC will rise in value vs Bitshares, if so buy BitBTC and trade back for a profit later.  On the other hand you can also leverage your investment and go short by providing 200% collateral on your BitShares vs any asset.

Bitshares is A LOT to take in and it's best to download the wallet to visualize what is going on.  The built in market is just the tip of the iceberg when you start to think of the benefits of bitUSD or BitEURO when it comes to international business or personal wealth.  The market pegs have been holding steady and now just needs some massive volume to see if it can take the heat!

[kokojie]

Bitshares is a good project, stamp of approval here.

Well it is still new lets see how long they will last this time. PTS is already done you can see this today.

That's because on Nov 5th BitShares PTS became part of BitSharesX, they also added BitShares DNS and also as yet unreleased BitShares VOTE. So now the X will drop from BitSharesX and it will just be one BitShares platform.

So BitShares PTS is falling cuz it's pretty much over in its current form. Some people are looking at rebranding it as just PTS and continuing it that way.

You jokeing ? Aren't you ? So what happed to the people that bought at 20$ ? They fucked now?

Are you a PTS holder? I bought PTS at 0.02 BTC/PTS back in Nov 2013, and held till the Nov 5th, 2014 snapshot, then sold all immediately after the snapshot for 0.0026 BTC/PTS

So, my total investment cost was 0.0174 BTC/PTS. Now let's see what I got from each PTS:
* 644 BTS from February 2014 snapshot
* 1176 DNS and VOTE from dual snapshot, which now both converted to about 40 BTS total
* another 100 BTS from Nov 5th 2014 merger snapshot

So total of 784 BTS, which is currently worth 0.04 BTC, for my original investment cost of 0.0174 BTC.

Also since I held through the "play" snapshot, my PTS address would still be eligible for that too, though it haven't even been properly valued yet, I'm sure it'll worth something.

I wouldn't really call a 200%+ return in a year, "fucked". If you are PTS holder, I'm really curious what you did to feel "fucked" by holding PTS. Because if you bought PTS at nearly any point in the past year, and held till now, you would have made money (in term of BTC).

[TinEye]

BitAssets let you store the value of a dollar/gold/silver/stocks/commodities in a decentralised way which is sick.

What does that mean?

And what's the use if I have
 a) gold, or
 b) bitsharesX coins, or
 c) dollars

BitAssets  are like the benefits of crypto tech without the wild volatility. If implemented properly I can see it being used widely and even used to store.

BitsharesX is a crypto coin with extra volatility as a small group which includes the developers tries to squeeze the maximum profits by pumping and dumping.

[juicyjuice87]

Scams usually do come out of nowhere and claim their crypto is undervalued and will triple in price then take over bitcoin. If you can't see this is a scam you deserve to be scammed

[chryspano]

Scams usually do come out of nowhere and claim their crypto is undervalued and will triple in price then take over bitcoin. If you can't see this is a scam you deserve to be scammed

A few months old "nxt lover" account that declared war on bitshares

[brekyrself]

BitAssets let you store the value of a dollar/gold/silver/stocks/commodities in a decentralised way which is sick.

What does that mean?

And what's the use if I have
 a) gold, or
 b) bitsharesX coins, or
 c) dollars

BitAssets  are like the benefits of crypto tech without the wild volatility. If implemented properly I can see it being used widely and even used to store.

BitsharesX is a crypto coin with extra volatility as a small group which includes the developers tries to squeeze the maximum profits by pumping and dumping.

Tiny Eye

Their board shows 7600+ members with 142,344 posts, I would not consider that small for an alt.  Please show us proof the devs pumping and dumping, they are some of the only ones NOT hiding behind a anonymous forum handle.  Dan is very well respected and speaks at many national crypto conferences.

Here is his Keynote speech at Beyond Bitcoin in Vegas recently.
http://youtu.be/U44MujtVj00

[TinEye]

Tiny Eye

Their board shows 7600+ members with 142,344 posts, I would not consider that small for an alt.  Please show us proof the devs pumping and dumping, they are some of the only ones NOT hiding behind a anonymous forum handle.  Dan is very well respected and speaks at many national crypto conferences.

Here is his Keynote speech at Beyond Bitcoin in Vegas recently.
http://youtu.be/U44MujtVj00

Nice attack. Do you not like when sometimes questions something where you invested? Money can strongly bias anybody, including myself.

Look at the board, half are crying that they have been screwed and the other half reluctantly toeing the party line as they have no choice. In the midst a few are laughing.

I am laughing too, as I was keeping a close eye and traded accordingly, so thank you.

[testz]

Tiny Eye

Their board shows 7600+ members with 142,344 posts, I would not consider that small for an alt.  Please show us proof the devs pumping and dumping, they are some of the only ones NOT hiding behind a anonymous forum handle.  Dan is very well respected and speaks at many national crypto conferences.

Here is his Keynote speech at Beyond Bitcoin in Vegas recently.
http://youtu.be/U44MujtVj00

Nice attack. Do you not like when sometimes questions something where you invested? Money can strongly bias anybody, including myself.

Look at the board, half are crying that they have been screwed and the other half reluctantly toeing the party line as they have no choice. In the midst a few are laughing.

I am laughing too, as I was keeping a close eye and traded accordingly, so thank you.

You will give us the links for the half which "crying that they have been screwed" or it's simple #psaking? 

PS: Half from "142451 Posts in 9961 Topics by 7645 Members" should be at least 70000+?

[brekyrself]

Tiny Eye

Their board shows 7600+ members with 142,344 posts, I would not consider that small for an alt.  Please show us proof the devs pumping and dumping, they are some of the only ones NOT hiding behind a anonymous forum handle.  Dan is very well respected and speaks at many national crypto conferences.

Here is his Keynote speech at Beyond Bitcoin in Vegas recently.
http://youtu.be/U44MujtVj00

Nice attack. Do you not like when sometimes questions something where you invested? Money can strongly bias anybody, including myself.

Look at the board, half are crying that they have been screwed and the other half reluctantly toeing the party line as they have no choice. In the midst a few are laughing.

I am laughing too, as I was keeping a close eye and traded accordingly, so thank you.

Who's attacking?  I am just asking for proof to your ridiculous statements in all these threads.  You make claims and never back anything up.  Please, I am looking for an educational debate, not someone trolling.

[TinEye]

Tiny Eye

Their board shows 7600+ members with 142,344 posts, I would not consider that small for an alt.  Please show us proof the devs pumping and dumping, they are some of the only ones NOT hiding behind a anonymous forum handle.  Dan is very well respected and speaks at many national crypto conferences.

Here is his Keynote speech at Beyond Bitcoin in Vegas recently.
http://youtu.be/U44MujtVj00

Nice attack. Do you not like when sometimes questions something where you invested? Money can strongly bias anybody, including myself.

Look at the board, half are crying that they have been screwed and the other half reluctantly toeing the party line as they have no choice. In the midst a few are laughing.

I am laughing too, as I was keeping a close eye and traded accordingly, so thank you.

Who's attacking?  I am just asking for proof to your ridiculous statements in all these threads.  You make claims and never back anything up.  Please, I am looking for an educational debate, not someone trolling.

Look at the bolded part.

I have backed up many times. I think it was you who was asking to show proof of the developer earning a million BTSX off others and I pointed to that post.

Are you saying the group over there was happy? Some were, all those who were benefiting. The rest either started crying or ended up reluctantly accepting as they had no other option. The developers blatantly flouted the social contract they themselves made up and screwed their original loyalists who had invested in PTS. Not to mention all those who bought DNS at almost 3 times the price before snapshot.

[brekyrself]

Tiny Eye

Their board shows 7600+ members with 142,344 posts, I would not consider that small for an alt.  Please show us proof the devs pumping and dumping, they are some of the only ones NOT hiding behind a anonymous forum handle.  Dan is very well respected and speaks at many national crypto conferences.

Here is his Keynote speech at Beyond Bitcoin in Vegas recently.
http://youtu.be/U44MujtVj00

Nice attack. Do you not like when sometimes questions something where you invested? Money can strongly bias anybody, including myself.

Look at the board, half are crying that they have been screwed and the other half reluctantly toeing the party line as they have no choice. In the midst a few are laughing.

I am laughing too, as I was keeping a close eye and traded accordingly, so thank you.

Who's attacking?  I am just asking for proof to your ridiculous statements in all these threads.  You make claims and never back anything up.  Please, I am looking for an educational debate, not someone trolling.

Look at the bolded part.

I have backed up many times. I think it was you who was asking to show proof of the developer earning a million BTSX off others and I pointed to that post.

Are you saying the group over there was happy? Some were, all those who were benefiting. The rest either started crying or ended up reluctantly accepting as they had no other option. The developers blatantly flouted the social contract they themselves made up and screwed their original loyalists who had invested in PTS. Not to mention all those who bought DNS at almost 3 times the price before snapshot.

The new compromise was no easy task however it was clear the dev's could not move from project to project instead needed one main DAC with all the feature sets of the individual DAC's (Vote, DNS, Play, etc...)  All in all, no one really got screwed as anyone who held PTS through the BTSX snapshot or the more recent DNS snapshot has made money.

DNS was a tricky compromise since that DAC was launched and trading on exchanges.  Holders however will be gifted BTS according the newsletter.  According to Stan "
The percentage numbers in this table trace the snapshot shares back to where they originally came from for the purposes of demonstrating indirect honoring of PTS/AGS. DNS sold prior to proposal announcement still benefited the sellers and the buyers before that date will receive a small adjustment from other funds."

http://bitshares.org/bitshares-reloaded/
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10844.0


I believe the most important point people are missing about this change is the paid delegate system.  This provides a way for dev's, marketers, or anyone providing value to BitShares to be paid directly by the blockchain.  Stake holders will vote in these dev's as delegates who can earn up to 50bts per block.  If this works, it will attract top talented dev's to work on BitShares and get paid by being a delegate.  Win win for everyone involved.

[TinEye]

The new compromise was no easy task however it was clear the dev's could not move from project to project instead needed one main DAC with all the feature sets of the individual DAC's (Vote, DNS, Play, etc...)  All in all, no one really got screwed as anyone who held PTS through the BTSX snapshot or the more recent DNS snapshot has made money.

There is no doubt that all those who follow closely made a profit in the deal. Its the average investors who got screwed, as clearly demonstrated by all the dumping.

They are still crying, the feeling of being screwed has not left https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11235.0