Bitcoin Forum

Wanted to get some input on a possible security i have plans for.

www.n33d.org - UnderDevelopment

IPO Description (stock/share):
The owner of this certificate (aka. the shareholder) is a holder of one share of ownership in this organization, which entitles its holder to one vote in motions put forth by the organzation and to one share of the organizations profits. Motions can be put forward for voting by either the organizations CEO, or by 30% or more of shares, and require the vote of 51% or more of shares to pass. Profits are the net income remaining after expenses. Profits earned by the organization will be paid to shareholders as a dividend, divided equally among all shares. Funds will be generated by selling the end product (and/or clones) to local MMJ delivery services & documented patients. Future plans include expanding to additional grow sites.

As a venture such as this can pose risks to the organization making secrecy somewhat mandatory, yet operating an organization without some sort of transpanency is just plain unethical; our organization therefor will be keeping shareholders up to date on progress with daily to weekly photos & journal entries, including the organization's financial reports. Any piece of information that puts at risk the future of this organization, such as names or locations,  will be omitted from the update entries before release.

In the event of winding up of the organization and liquidating of it's assets, after the payment of the organizations creditors, the shareholders will be paid all remaining liquidity, divided equally among shares, such that one share entitles the holder to a single share of liquidity.

No shareholder is liable for the actions of this organization, or anyone who performs any action or task for this organization. No shareholder is liable for any debt that this organization takes on. The limit of liability of a shareholder is solely limited to the capital already invested in this organization when this share was purchased, and no further. Shareholders may not vote out the CEO as this position is permanent.

Really?  You respond with a picture of a sketchy building and something that is illegal?  Snapman is in a state where medical marijuana is legalized, and the outline states that the intended purchasers are also legally entitled to purchase it.

At least this isn't another "give me your BTC so I can buy mining hardware" offering.  It's an actual proven business type that doesn't rely on gambling that BTC value won't crash, or that the difficulty won't shoot up without a corresponding price change.

It was bad humour I guess. I have nothing against MJ.

TBH. its legal in your state so why the hell not

Subbed


Its a new idea and for something like this the banks would not help. Ain't that what bitcoin is about

How will you migitate (if at all) the conversion risks of BTC <--> USD?

Are your profits in USD (or other fiat money) or do you sell at a fixed BTC price, regardless of conversion rates?

Interesting IPO.

You're setting this up in a place where MM is legal, but as you'll be primarily dealing in fiat will you be properly setting up your company? I would imagine the government would take a dim view of someone setting up an unlicensed grow op in their basement without a business license and the required paperwork, regardless of the status of pot in your jurisdiction.

That would be my eventual goal, to legitimize the setup to cover all sides. But until then, i might be able to convince a shop owner or 2 to work with me in BTC. I plan on going around meeting the members of collectives & co-ops here in the area to get the basis down on what i need to be aiming for.

See this is what is going to make it harder for all of us.  STAY AWAY.   Can't you just hear Barbra Walters doing and expose using this as content.  Smarten up people, please.

Dalkore

Cute, i see you own Newbit Mining Co, just because i don't want to run ANOTHER mining op, i must be bad? A piece of advice, you cant hijack shares from a potential ipo that doesn't exist yet, its like kicking a dead horse (or kicking a cup of horse ejaculate for this matter.)

Do you even understand why I made this statement?  Think about the average person that has no opinion of Bitcoin and then reads about how people are using Bitcoins to fund a operation like this?   Stuff like this will just bring bad press to the community.   If you don't even understand that is a likely possibility, I don't know what to say.   For me, someone coming here to fund this type of project is not coming to the community because they support the cause of the reason of expanding the transactional use of Bitcoins.   

You may want to throw it back at me, with myself and partner running a mining operation but we do process transactions and provide extra security to the network at the same time.


D

First off, thats quite a leap, Barbra Walters? Really?

Secondly, if that person does watch Barbra Walters, then they obviously hate free thought and rather tote the party line. (NBC, ABC, or what ever group shes with now...) if people that are foolish enough to believe anything that comes out of her mouth, then its fiat for life with them anyway.

I'm merely providing investors a chance towards something other then another mining op. I'm not advocating the use of marjiuana, or that of any drug, and i'm not cooking meth. I'm growing something that shoudln't even be illegal in the first damn place, but i'm not here to argue politics.

Yes, stay away, but not just for the bad publicity.  I am not trying to thread crap here, rather pointing out the risks of the investment at issue.

US-based grow ops are fraught with problems (from an investor's perspective).  They take a lot of hard work (they're running an actual farm), fail more often than restaurants, AND investors (and lenders) cannot get their money back when they fail.

I've been passed more than a few proposals for investments in grow ops and dispensaries.  Unless you're already in that biz, you should stay out of it. (I am not in it, for the record)

So what's that about not being able to get your money back?  Can't you just sue the guys who ran it?  Well, you can sue, but you'll lose.  Since marijuana is still prohibited by the federal govt. (regardless of any state laws to the contrary), and your case will most likely wind up in federal court, the grower has a proven affirmative defense in that your investment or loan was for a prohibited purpose and your suit is barred.  Don't believe me?  Check this out: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/500000-medical-marijuana-lawsuit-smoke/story?id=16322793#.T8zonzFSR9U

IANAL, just been down this rabbit hole before.

What state are you going to setup in?

Because your domain provider is based in Cali, and will give up your info with one letter that smells legalish.
That is if you used real info when you got that domain.

California is swamped with MMJ they have them every few blocks, and has really hurt prices at retail.

What strains are you going to grow?

I don't want to weigh in on the political statement you mentioned, not my place.


I will say, yes, think Barbra Walters and those types doing a story on this.    We don't need more bad press on how Bitcoins can be used for another <insert random illegal or quasi-legal transaction>.  We want to put a foot forward that shows we are pushing into the light and we are behind Bitcoin because of the financial alternative system it provides savers and businesses.   Being this is the in the epic-center of the movement, we need to assume people are following the development in Bitcoin from here.  

I really want Bitcoin to succeed even more than it has, this doesn't help.   Things like this will force agencies to try to disrupt one of the most important and vulnerable elements of Bitcoin.   FX exchangers like Mt Gox, Dwolla, Bit-Pay, Bit Instant, etc...   They tie this solidly to things like this and it will be all the justification needed to block or make it really hard to get currency in and out of the economy.

Dalkore

That cookie cutter approach will only go so far, before your loaded with nothing but the same types of organization crowding one another in a small econ system. We will eventually progress to the point where we have a million bit-pay's/dwollas/mtgox's/and mining operation type groups where each only has a few customers, complete and utter oversaturation.

Tip toeing around MSM won't help, even if there was no "news" for them to report, then would make some. Only sheeple believe that marijuana is the "devils drug", and there's no hope for them anyways. Blame big pharma for all the negative propaganda spewed out over the airwaves for the past century, theyd rather charge my insurance for $1000 pain pills then having me grow my own medication.

If you honestly believe that the financial organizations around the world will allow bitcoin to progress any further then a convenience to those of us who live on the net without enforcing the entire weight of the local governmental judicial systems, then you will have a rude awaking.


Yes random, this might have been true about a year ago, but the state and federal police in cali have had a wild hair up their ass lately (started worsening when obama invited himself into the white house), limiting and even shutting down all dispensaries in certain counties all over the state (mmj groups have been able to bypass this by basing their business in a county which allows it, transfering from storefront to delivery). Even LA, the dispensary capital has been regulated down to 100 dispensaries over the entire county, down from a near 1000.

As for strains, looking to start off with bluedream, superjack, ppp, and bubblicious.

So "greyhat" SEO/potential spamming (TCC), downloading most likely illegal content by proxy (BITCOINTORRENTZ), shady investments with 7% return per week (pirate pass throughs) with no disclosed business model at all and even "shares when hit by meteorite" (IMPACT) are all fine, but a MMJ operation would really damage the image of BTC and GLBSE?!

I'd rather have some more hard facts:
Expenses, projected income, how much money shall be raised, how many shares...

Not illegal, many legitimate companies sell blackhat SEO services.

Also not illegal, BitcoinTorrentz is hosted in Russia where our IP laws don't have effect (the service itself isn't illegal, but those using it may be breaking the law).


If you look hard enough you will find a couple of ways to make an almost automated return legally of 10-12% like Pirate does with very little risk. There are many opportunities there and many other people are doing it.


Out of all of these, which do you think the newspaper would write about? Of course the weed!

The newspapers love making up horror stories about "homegrown skunk cannabis killing our children", almost all the press coverage Bitcoin has gotten is about "the ebay of drugs", they're going to start calling it some sort of drug currency. If this comes about I would honestly consider leaving Bitcoin altogether, it's got a bad enough rep as it is.

Can you imagine trying to convince a fortune 500 company to use Bitcoin, when all the press are calling it a drug currency?

^^^^

Well put.    Either you are here to support this community and this movement or not.  Getting into an debate over whether marijuana should or should not be federally legal and then justifying your position by using Bitcoin to further it, in my opinion, its political and not for the betterment of bitcoin and what we are trying to do here, provide a truly viable alternative international medium of exchange and measurement of value (atleast that is why I think).

These types of ideas of course could be done with this and another of other means but you should really think hard about how that would reflect on the rest of us.   I know you think I am wrong about this but trust me, I am correct if you are looking after the interests of our group and not just some members.   

 ;D when is IPO? how much per share? I'm in...   ::)

Hmm 8 posts huh?  Interesting timing to find this conversation sir.

 :D

I sure hope not.

He's probably right. Nef most likely won't advocate.

IMHO, investors would look down upon this, largely.

As an alternative exchange, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84362.msg930921#msg930921

+1

Funneling money internationally for a prohibited purpose.  Sounds like a great idea.   ::)

I support this effort 100% and would hope that Nefario would too.

The whole reason for bitcoins is to have a completely unregulated free market - regulations be damned.

The retards who post that it will make bitcoin look bad aren't even worth responding to. These are the same idiots who think that the news is telling some truth apparently. If these people had half a brain, they would realize that bitcoin is designed to succeed in spite of negative propaganda anyway. In fact, there really isn't a such thing as "bad press" for bitcoin. Any press is good.

My bet is, that a msm story about a bitcoin marijuana company on the bitcoin stock exchange would draw a lot of interest to the GLBSE.

Besides, marijuana is good for you and a plant, part of nature,  that we all have the natural right to put in our own bodies. Anyone who says otherwise is an ignorant a$$hole and should F**k off.

 :-\ 

That kinda sucks, but it IS his exchange. Hopefully, we'll see some competition in exchanges soon (Hermes?).

Sorry to inform you, any press is not good press.   Again, here we have an example of another person living in unregulated "fantasy-land".   I guess I am this "retard" and "idiot" that believes bitcoin DOES suffer from an image problem and thinks that this press would just yet again reinforce it. BUT THIS TIME IT WOULD BE COMING HOME, to our forums.

Then he follows up with this "dime" about how it would be good press for the exchange. - not even worth responding too

Lastly, we finally get the pay-off.   Another political statement in the "Pro" column for marijuana (if you must know, I do believe it has medical benefits).   Atleast your username is "cryptoanarchist", so your staying true to character.

P.S. I love this line the most  "If these people had half a brain, they would realize that bitcoin is designed to succeed in spite of negative propaganda anyway. In fact, there really isn't a such thing as "bad press" for bitcoin. Any press is good. "

Ask yourself, do I really sound like I have "half" a brain?

Dalkore

you sound like a statist who wants to push your ideals onto everyone else, even when you're in the minority. For most people, being affiliated with marijuana isn't a bad thing.

Definition of Statist:  The practice or doctrine of giving a centralized government control over economic planning and policy.

Can you tell me how the half-brain idiot is a statist when if anything I have given solid advice about PR and how it has been affecting Bitcoin.  I have advocated that we refrain from activites that would get vital parts of Bitcoin's emerging economy shut-down or regulated so hard it would have to go underground and then that would bar many type of funds that could really help the community.

If you want to talk about ideas that is another discussion, it would be much more personal liberty.   But to say we want a fully unregulated markets tells me you want a place where its easy to find a mark and rip them off (stick em up).  We already have regulation in Bitcoin through the proof of work system, block-chain and Web of Trust along with this community. 

People can do what they want, I just want to give a perspective and my recommendation on these activities.  This is all our community and it is up to what we make it, I want something truly revolutionary but I know that if it will ever get to that level, it will need majority support and if people endorse this type of activity then you are painting it into a certain corner where the powers that be will make it AS DIFFICULT as possible to do anything and many people will give up because the "games ceases to be worth the candle".

I would buy some of these

Despite the fact I personally find nothing wrong with weed financing an illegal grow op is a dumb idea especially in the US knowing how retarded the people with guns are there.

A version of glbse behind tor or on i2p for silk road related listings is another matter  ;)

I don't advocate it but your private business is your own.  We are the flagship community here so we do represent something here so we need to assume that people are monitoring the direction we are trying to take things.   Common sense is what we all need to use, not just personal gain but what gains for us all, its already going to be a hard road, lets not make it even harder.

.02
Dal

if this "IPO" getting listed
wouldn't .COM domain in this case glbse.com being under US jurisdiction while facilitating illegal OP be subject to domain seizure at the very least?

This is a good point, I almost forgot about the ICANN changes in 2010.  They could use ICE to seize the domain.

This.

The idea of diversification for GLBSE is nice, but this is a pretty bad idea. Nothing to do with someone's opinion on MM or weed in general, but investing in an unlicensed business in a very tightly regulated industry just seems like a poor idea. If the OP sticks to his word and just sells to authorized clients, margins would probably be low enough to not be worth the risk. Get the paperwork in order first, then try to launch the business.

Yup, plus Glbse's servers are in the US, so they'd physically seize them and have records of all the transactions in case they wanted to prosecute (or persecute) those involved.

BTW: The US govt can seize domains when the registry is US-based (Verisign which runs .com and .net is a US company).  Other governments can seize domains from registries in their own countries (e.g. Ireland for .info), depending on local laws.  ICANN hasn't changed anything (yet), they are working on a new registrar accreditation agreement and the wants of the law enforcement and govt contingent are top on their list of negotiating points, so it will probably get even worse in the coming years.  I run an ICANN-accredited registrar, however any opinions here are my own.

This shouldnt be run through glbse it should be done as a private investment club. You could run it using gpg keys to verify shareholders and hold voting via gpg email.

I have been involved in a  previous endeavour which did just this which also had a secretary,treasurer and accountant etc and had its bylaws.

gbse would be shut down by ICE if it was involved in your operation but if its run as I suggested above you would get a lot more support.

Now we need some sort of open source software that helps you run investment clubs.  :)

Edit: btw how much would you want to raise ?

OMG, do you realize how collectivist you sound? Are you the kind of guy who watches a sports team win and says "We won!!". Do you talk about America using the word "we" too? So you can use nationalism to take credit for things you've never done? Like "we beat the Nazis"?

Look at your above statement. Don't you think it a bit silly to be talking for the whole community? Speak for yourself, you sure as hell don't speak for me.

I wonder, can you speak without using the words "we" and "us"??

My own personal stance on MJ and drugs in general is that , though I myself don't use them, I see no reason why I should stop anyone else from doing so.

From a professional stance I need to consider GLBSE's users and asset issuers, I believe that such assets would bring unwelcome attention to GLBSE from various government agencies around the world and would in all probability result in myself being imprisoned (whether I would stay there or not I don't know), the GLBSE.com domain being seized as well as our servers (although we've got backups, it's going to be hard for me to do anything with them from prison).

Allowing such assets to list on GLBSE in it's current state would be an unacceptable risk for GLBSE, all it's users and it's operators, and as a result is not something that I could approve.

As others have mentioned in this thread earlier, an investment group that is very careful could serve this purpose.

The only exchange that would be able to handle such an asset without getting shutdown is one thats running on a darknet (such as Tor/I2P).

Nefario

As a GLBSE user, thank you for this.  ;)

I am sure a great many other users share this sentiment.

Agreed. If nothing else the OP has some ideas for how to run things now.

I still would invest Just because its something different.. Pity its going to have to be private.

Same as nefario I don't use drugs. But If I can make money and its kinda legal why not.

 

This will be a good asset for a p2p exchange.

'kinda' legal? Better hope they are not illegal or it could constitute a conspiracy because the investment would be an overt act and you could get the same length of jail time as the perpetuator or, in other words, co-conspirator.

GLBSE, as long as it sticks to only listing legal operations, as is discussed in this thread is probably completely legal (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80139.0) under the new crowdsourced investment act.

Considering either an attempt on cryptostocks.com or through a private investment type setup. Unless some sort of p2p trading system comes out soon.

If pirate can pull it off by calling his operation a bank (who the fuck knows what the money was really spent on, for all we know he could have been using the funds to run a string of meth labs across the eastern seaboard, or for shipping slave brides from russia & china over to the states), and telling nobody a damn thing except to expect 7% per week, and succeed?!?!?... shit then i know what i need to do.

RENAMED: N33D GR33N MJ Banking Opportunities :P

You could call it HOBBY.FARM rather than something so overt. No one needs to know what it is you are "farming".

I could, but then when people start asking for details on the business plan and all the inner details, then you have a problem. Unless i just copy and paste pirates IPO launch details, then maybe ill have a chance.

i2p or Tor is do-able using an Open Transactions server...

I'd mention some such servers were it not that people might then think I run them; on the other hand if people don't think they know who runs them would they trust them?

Well the nice thing about Open Transactions is it is really the issuer of the asset, not the operator of the server on which it is traded, that people need to trust. Maybe we can get you set up with a server you run yourself in your greenhouse?

-MarkM-

Holy hell, i blink my eyes, and 10 more mining operations pop up. All of them are just people trying to get the community to buy BFL equipment for them.... Whether it be more FGPAs or ASICs.

That is where brokers / brokerages come in maybe?

Afterall its hard to get a seat on the New York Stock Exchange, yet joe public still managed to get hold of shares traded there...

-MarkM-

Anyone who is willfully involved in any entity which operates in illegal ventures (state or federal) can ALWAYS be found liable. This includes individuals providing resources (in this case, capital) to engage specifically in illegal activities.

You can not create a contract that completely waives this aspect of liability.

Please, do some serious research before heading into a venture such as this. You need to be sure you can protect yourself and investors.

I might as well just lie my ass off, it seems to work best for the rest of these securities/banks/ponzischemes & fucking everything else

We're a group of local growers, investing in local farmers to grow strawberrys....

The End. (or is it) Dun Dun Dunnnnnnn

See, this is what happens when you don't put your trust in herb, you get scammed by pirates... :O

Have fun collecting funds from that.

Tomato plants are better.

Or how about this...

"Invest In The Hidden Realms Of R&D"

Now what i as define r&d, and what the rest of the world may define it as may differ :P Throw your money into a black hole and hope something comes back out.... then all i need is some retarded trade handle like PPT-POOFOOD or something.

lol. Theres plenty of  assets that basically just say "give me your money and youre fucked if I spend it on hookers and blow"

and they have the nerve to call me a bad influence on bitcoin, rifk

like 95% of network traffic is gambling (illegal in the states), and silkroad (illegal all over the world)

If you use the medical strategy you would have to be a non profit organization ("unincorporated" preferably).
You definitely couldnt have stock holders.
And no profit could be distributed.
You may be able to take a loan out and pay it back with interest. In which case the loan could be from a group of bitcoiners, structured in some manner.
Cool Idea,
But the downside about grow ops is they usually fail, in terms of quality.
If you have a bunch of experience producing high quality then disregard this, but if you think just by knowing all the info in books and online that your first grow will come out top notch then you are in for a rude awakening.

Anyways there would be a set interest rate and it could not be relative to how much you make.
Therefore it kinda reflects a bond.

Ya, i thought about the loan idea as nonprofit limitations would intervene.

As for the quality statement, im not just walking in out of the rain. Been growing for personal use since receiving my medicinal card (that's as much as im willing to admit :P), slowly prefecting my craft.