Bitcoin Forum

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@yochdog...

Seems people are still looking at the GLBSE contract and that shows a monthly div of .125 BTC per share.

We are stuck in the problem of GLBSE not allowing a contract change.

Correct me if I am wrong but you are NOT paying a flat coupon, correct?

How often are you paying dividends (coupons now if 100% PPS bond)?

Just witnessed someone buying all the remaining bonds for 0.8-0.85. Next offer at 1.2  :-\

Wow, I see that.

Pretty impressive price jump from where they were trading.  It does not really surprise me though.....when you do the math, it is one hell of a deal even at 1.0 BTC per share. 

With the bond offering 4MH/s and the average price per 1MH/s on the market of 25-30, the price should be around 1.0-1.2. 0.80 was a bargain :)

ahhh, but you are forgetting we will be at 50 GH/s soon.....and half of the share price is cash and equipment. 

@ yochdog,

Going to answer the questions above by chance?

SHit, did not even notice them....will respond now.....

Indeed, I am trying to clear up the confusion.  Not being able to change the contract is annoying to say the least....or at least not being able to add information. 

It currently is set at .015 per share per month, and will increase as earnings do.  We started at .01, raised it to .0125, and raised it again last month to .015. 

We pay dividends on the first of every month.....so the next payment will be July 1.  Dividends to this point were not paid through GLBSE due to our initial investors all being pre-IPO.  From July 1st forward dividends will be paid through GLBSE. 

Hope that helps. 

OK - so you are paying a defined coupon for now and NOT 100% PPS like the other bonds.

The talk about PPS in the OP threw me for a loop.

Thanks!

Exactly.......the plan is to move to a 100% passthrough in 60-90 days.  It will not be completely a PPS, as there will be some expenses for electricity.  However, all net income will be paid out to shareholders. 

Began moving into our newest location over the weekend......got an additional 8 GH/s installed so far.  Running some stability tests, and it will be up and down for a few days until we can dial it all in. 

We are quite pleased with the space thusfar, and think it will be a great long-term solution to our expansion contraints. 

When is next dividend?

The dividends are paid on the first of each month.  So, the next payment will be July 1st. 

Up until now the dividends were paid to the angel investors directly, and not through GLBSE.  The July 1st dividend will be the first to be paid through the GLBSE platform. 

thanks!

When are you going to verify on GLBSE, also, why aren't you in #bitcoin-assets on Freenode?

I sent my DL picture and address info to GLBSE.....nothing ever came of it.  I should pobably follow up.....I have just been busy.

Back to your bargain price!  GET ON IT!!   :P

Attention all shareholders:

Recent upgrades to the new Datacenter have increased our speed to 48 GH/s.  In the next 10 days we will easily exceed 50 GH/s, and have a good shot at 60. 

At the current price, BTCMC shares offer the best value of any mining company on GLBSE.

What the payout difference and share price difference compared to gigavps's program ? (I haven't been paying attention).

What costs more to purchase, which returns more per payment and which breaks even sooner ? (with all of the recent price changes on the GLBSE)...

Currently BTCMC pays out .015 BTC per share, per month.  In the next 2-3 months, we will be moving to a 100% passthrough model, less operating expenses. 

The farm is running at 48 GH/s at the moment, and will have closer to 55 GH/s within 7 days. 

48,000/10,000 = 4.8 MH/s per share. 

Share price is @ .835, thus buyers are paying .17 BTC per MH/s.  Gigamining is all over the board, but assuming 1 BTC, you pay .2 BTC per MH/s there.

HOWEVER, Gigamining is simply a bond, with no interest in the underlying assets.  BTCMC shareholders have a claim on the salvage value of the operating assets, which is easily $20,000 assuming very conservative recovery rates. 

My rough calculations show that each BTCMC share is worth .307 in equipment ALONE.  Which leaves the buyer paying .535 for the actual hashes.  That means they are really paying .111 BTC per MH/s.  Far and away the best deal on GLBSE.

Make sense?   

Know what I find funny ?

All the miners on GLBSE claiming their company is "the best deal on GLBSE".

Can't all be winners, can we ?

(subbing)

Its simple math really.....you can confirm it yourself if you like.  Pretty black and white.   

I never found quantitative matters to be that challenging, but it seems to be hard for a lot of members. 

Nice to see you selling shares, rather than bonds.
However, in order to make an assessment, it would be good if you gave some more info. Specifically Id like to hear about what hardware you are running (gpu or fgpa and which kind) and how low your electricity cost really is.

I was just thinking about this.  Obviously saying we have 20K in equipment is asking for a lot of trust. 

Let me put together a complete list and post it.  I will also put together the electrical cost (which will probably make you jealous!)

Here is a breakdown of our hardware:

7970    22
5970    16
6950    7
6970    2
6870    1
6870X2    4
5850    5
5870    3


BFL singles    23

And of course all the MOBOs, PSUs, CPUs, etc that run all that equipment.  

You can assign your own salvage values, but $20,000 seems VERY conservative to me.  


Electricity is amazingly cheap.  2 of our locations provide free power, and we have over 16,000 MH/s installed in those 2 locations.  The other 2 locations have consumption based pricing, and the incremental cost per KWh is $.031.

I think people will make widely different estimates of what that hardware will be worth in 6 months, Im sure some will think pre 7xxx GPUs will be worth only very little as gpu farms sell out left and right, and its clear as mud how popular fpga singles will become to use as "credit" towards an asic purchase, but FWIW, your estimate seems relatively accurate to me.


Thats low indeed :)

Have you any thoughts on what you would do if/when difficulty increases by 5x or 10x? Do you intend to keep mining with those gpus as long as its marginally profitable, or sell ? Any thoughts on getting in to asics?

ya, the GPU's will be mining as long as there is any profitability, then sold off to invest elsewhere. 

Depending on if and when the BFL asics become a reality, those 2 dozen singles will go a long way towards getting a Terahash machine.  That is probably the fall-back plan as of now. 

As I understand, no matter how many fpga's you send back to BFL, you have to place an asic order that is 2x bigger than the value of your fpgas. IOW, you have to double your bet. Its not an easy decision to make, certainly not at this point with so many unknowns, but at least my willingness to invest in your company would depend very much on your perspective on spending money on ASICs.


BTW; why did you buy those FPGAs in the first place? With nearly free electricity, it would take an eternity to become more profitable than your gpus, no?

Absolutely....

I understand the trade-in policy.  I am viewing the singles as a stop-gap for the moment, that earn a nice yield while we wait and see what happens with ASICS.  Once the dust settles and there is more clarity, then the decision on trading up can be made depending on the ROI projections at that point. 

I am comitted to mining, and the shareholders.

Yes, actually it does make sense. Thanks for 'holding my hand' through that....lol

I just don't know enough about both securities (or common practices on the GLBSE) to distinguish between some that are being offered currently.

Cheers.

Definitly takes some time to evaluate it all! 

to asic or not to asic is basically the only important question for a mining operation right now, at least a mining operatoin which owns a substantial amount of BFL fpgas.

I see only two sensible approaches. One is betting the bank on getting your asic hardware sooner than most, and thus preorder as soon as you can, keep your fpgas and trade them in for asics when you can, and there is a slight chance of breaking even or even a nice profit. The window of opportunity will be short, and if BFL gives priority to pre orders that do not trade in FPGAs, you are most likely screwed.

The other approach is selling your FPGAs *asap* to someone who intends to make that bet.

Buying shares in your company now, is betting you as CEO will bet right. The rest is of little importance by comparison. Therefore, may I make a suggestion? Split the company in to gpus and fpgas. I might be tempted to buy shares in a gpu only operation with low electricity cost. Its a gamble, but if these asics get delayed and people start selling gpus in anticipation of asics and reward halving, there might be some good months ahead. Its a risk I would consider.

The FPGA/ASIC stuff, I dont want to touch that with a 10 foot pole.

Interesting thoughts.....I will definitly take it into consideration.  There is a lot to think about in the coming months......I suppose rather than a split, I could put forth a motion to the shareholders to float another 5,000 shares for the purpose of purchasing a 1 TH/s rig and ensure we are viable going forward. 

Yeah, but you gotta worry, BFL might be lying out their ass. And if they aren't, thats a year and a half away. I say grow your farm with Enterpoint hardware until 28nm FPGAs come out at the end of this year.

OK shareholders......I think P4man is correct, and we need to decide sooner rather than later how we want to proceed.  

I have created a motion on GLBSE to issue and additional 6,000 shares, the proceeds of which will be used to place an order for a BFL SC mini-rig.  

I will take feedback here, and you can vote on GLBSE.

Currently BTCMC represents .3% of the mining network (1/300th).  If we purchase a SC mini-rig, the network capacity could leap to 300 TH/s (25x) before our share of the block reward would go down.  

I own 783 shares, I've voted no.

What would be your preferred route? 

See four posts up. Enterpoint now, 28nm later, and BFL has probably lied about their SC minirig and its closer to 500gh for $60k so 22nm FPGAs should start rolling out about the time they come out with their SC gear.

I have not seen the exact specs on Enterpoint.....what are they offering? 

A quad Spartan 6 board that has enough amps to run Tricone Mining's firmware. Seems to be the cheapest Spartan 6 solution per mh. They're a British company that specializes in custom computation gear, but the Cairnsmore is the first Bitcoin-related product they've made.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78239.0

BFL also made fools of themselves by trolling them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88363.0

Frankly, the only trolling I see is you stickying that post and putting that title on it.

As for recommending purchasing fpgas at this point, particularly ones that cant be traded up for asics, and to someone who pays virtually nothing for his electricity.. well Im not (yet) a shareholder, but I would hope a CEO knows when to ignore advice from a shareholder.

We definitly will not be purchasing any FPGA without an exit strategy (read: why we only have BFL's) 

You're welcome to outvote me in the motion.

Just a quick update......we have increased our hashrate to 50 GH/s +

This offers tremendous value for those who are able to buy shares at .80 BTC

breakdown:

-each share now represents 5+ MH/s of hashing
-each share is backed by over .3 BTC worth of equipment
-each share is protected from the ASIC revolution due to our prescient transition to BFL hardware

I'm pretty happy you borrowed part of my title! :)

How would those be priced?

They will be offered at the 5 day moving average prior to release. 

What is the outcome of the motion?

It was passed......

However, it does not appear the market can take another 6,000 shares at the moment, so we are in a holding pattern. 

I've just seen this thread & not sure to post here or the original one, anyway I just received my first interest payment of shares purchased last month, it seems that the dividend was @ BTC0.049867 per share & not as listed on the GLBSE offering of BTC0.125 per share, I expected a two & a half times higher ROI - this is totally unacceptable & you need to urgently sort this out with GLBSE as it is blatantly misleading.

I request that you agree to buy these shares back from me at cost due to miss-selling & await your response, thanks.

BTCMC split shares 10x, and thus the dividend was also split. Nefario refuses to let Yochdog change the contract on GLBSE.

thanks for the info, I would really appreciate a full reply to my post from the OP though & am surprised that he hasn't as yet seen fit to do so

Sorry for the delay in response.  Diablo is indeed correct.  After the 10 for 1 split, I have been unable to change the contract despite my attempts to contact Nefario. 

This months dividend was more than 3x what we announced, in an attempt to smooth over investor angst about the contract snafu.  We apologize for the confusion, and hope nefario will eventually help us make the change to the contract. 

Hi, thanks for the response, I saw the offer on GLBSE & entered in to a very clear contract with you:

"Full contract:

Ownership entitles the holder of record to dividends paid monthly on the first of each month. Current dividends are set at .125 BTC per share, per month."

As stated I received 2.5 times less than I was contracted to receive, there was no warning that you had changed this & no link in the blog section or else where warning that these conditions may be changed without notice, if you were unable to change the public terms then in my opinion you should have closed out the issue & opened a new offering with the correct terms, maybe you didn't wish to pay a re-listing fee but the result is perfectly clear which is you are falsely promising a return far higher than you intended to pay then ignoring my request to buy back your mis-sold shares so I would appreciate you making this right by buying the 500 shares I have listed for sale & addressing the issue on GLBSE so that it doesn't happen again to some one else, many thanks.

Obviously you took zero time to actually read the OP:

Company Summary
BitCo is a mature organization with stable operations.  Through our network of 40+ miners in 3 locations, we are able to achieve a maximum mining capacity of 40 GH/s.  Our technical know-how allows us to achieve fantastic up-time with few unplanned outages.  Our cost structure is very low due to favorable cooling methods as well as very cheap electricity.  DIVIDENDS are paid monthly, on the first of each month.  Currently set at .015 BTC per share.

I bought on GLBSE & using the info on GLBSE, no I didn't go searching for threads & history that you may be paying something totally different than what the contract stated - why should I need to there's nothing on GLBSE to say beware & I should do, I saw you OP when you were first looking for angel investors & applied to be one as I was impressed with what you planned to do, I had some spare funds early last month - checked the returns & bought some, unfortunately under a false contract - as you aren't going to honor it then I am, for the third time now, requesting a refund - do you intend to give me one in a professional manner or not?

I am not going to refund anything, as I probably did not even sell you the shares in the first place!

There are multiple holders of the asset, and a live market.  Multiple sellers, multiple buyers. 

I apologize that the contract reflects the pre-split dividend rate. 

I had absolutely no problem understanding that there was a 10 to 1 stock split and that the promised dividend was to be proportionately split. The minutest amount of due diligence would have made that clear to any purchaser of the shares. Yochdog has always been very forthcoming and honest with information. I continue to purchase  BTMC shares from time to time.

OK so it appears that I am a fool to have trusted a very clear & explicit contact issued by you on GLBSE & finally you have admitted that you will not buy the shares back off me at cost to make this good. You also seem to think it's fine to just leave that completely untrue contact up there so that others can fall in to the same trap.

Firstly I shall contact Nefario & state that your issue is a fraud, it does not pay what it promises to or give any clue that you may just decide at any time to lower the interest rate drastically as you had already done.

Secondly I shall ask for a judgement from the Securities Mods here of you keeping up this false offer on GLBSE if that should get you the scammers tag.

No I don't go & read every thread about every thing that I buy on GLBSE, I will now if you get away with this but it's too late in this case anyway.

I'll wait for 24 hrs to give you one last chance to act like the professional you claim to be & buy in the shares that were falsely listed on your issue, I very much regret this unpleasantness when you could just do the right thing but that is up to you.

Contact away.  I have tried several times to get Nefario to change the contract, and have had no luck.

You will be doing us a favor if your efforts are successful. 

Due Diligence FAIL

Attention all Bitcorp Holders:

Our preliminary production figure for June totals 725.57 BTC 

Not a bad month, but not exactly what we expected either.  We had several machines fail during the month, and also hit a streak of bad luck at one of our pools. 

We hope to get back on track in July and exceed 850 BTC in production. 

emailed to:

Nefario hi,

Re: The GLBSE listing for Bitcorp Mining Co. https://glbse.com/asset/view/BTCMC

Last month I bought 507 shares under the stated contract as listed:

Full contract:

Ownership entitles the holder of record to dividends paid monthly on the first of each month. Current dividends are set at .125 BTC per share, per month. The goal of Bitcorp is to steadily increase the payout over time, but makes no guarantees to that end.

On the 1st of July I only received a dividend of 0.049867 BTC per share or two & a half times less than the contract stated, I bought these shares in good faith having seen yochdog's original forum listing & judging him to be both honest & professional but relied on the GLBSE terms being accurate rather than searching his threads to check if anything may have changed, a few days ago I posted on his thread to request that he buy back these miss-sold shares at my cost price but he refused & seems to think it is OK to leave this false inflated contract up on GLBSE, rather than closing it & making a new issue that correctly shows the actual dividend that will be paid & links to where one may find current info if it is a variable rate.

Please see here for my post & his eventual response:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85443.msg1001483#msg1001483

I don't know if you can insist that he makes this right but at the very least there should be some warning on the listing that the info is not correct or the listing be force closed & shares transferred to say BTCMC-2 with correct returns & conditions stated, I look forward to your take on all this by PM &/or by a post in his thread, many thanks,

Otoh

cc. posted in his thread above

It's an issue all over GLBSE. Contracts can't be / are not allowed to changed.

Somewhat related discussion here (scroll down a bit): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89262.0

I have gotten only a single email regarding this, which was 3 days ago, Edit: On checking my forum PM's I've got one from the 28th asking about updating, and then 3 days ago got an email to the GLBSE support address for this. I've just replied as I'm backed up on most support emails by about 4 days since traveling.

Usually when someone wants to update a contract they send the new version and a link to a motion that approves the change (if required). All I've gotten is an email asking to have the contract updated.

Often, while waiting for the contract to be approved the issuer will go ahead and act as though it's been approved. This so far has only been the case when the change was to the advantage of the shareholders, as it's hard to argue for breach of contract when the terms of the contract have not just been met but exceeded.

This would be the first case of it happening to the detriment of the shareholder, and unless it's actually covered in the contract itself(and on inspecting the contract it seems thats not the case), would probably constitute a breach of contract.

Also since these shares were bought when last month? The date I was contacted about updating the contract was 3 days ago. When did the stock split take place?

Statements on the forum outside of GLBSE don't constitute contract of what is being traded on GLBSE. Thats why the contract is up there itself for all to inspect.

I would say that the easiest and cheapest method to settle this is to pay dividends at the stated rate.

I am unsure as to the best method of resolving this. Buyer acted on the terms in the contract, asset issuer was not being malicious.

On a related note, in the upcoming changes for GLBSE 3.0 will be unlimited contract changes, but showing full contract history.

Nefario.

Nefario, many thanks for your prompt & fair response

The shares were bought:

100 June 03
200 June 12
352 June 15
48   June 16
175 June 16
27   June 17
53   June 22
112 June 20

Total of 1067, sold 560, remaining 507

Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company [Now pushing 40 GH/s!] thread OP.

I've searched now & it seems that your stock split was made on the 31st of May 2012 & this OP from your main mining Co. offering still states a return of 0.15 BTC per share, even more than the incorrect amount shown on GLBSE unless I've missed something here & you have many different but similar issues going on atm.

OK Nefario says that he received an email from you on the 28th (of June I assume) re updating the contract to show the correct amount of interest, but you had actually made the split on May 31st a whole 4 weeks previously.

Nefario states that you are probably in breach of contract & I've now provided the additional info he requested on my buy dates etc to prove that you were undoubtedly so, therefor I am asking you once again to buy in these 507 shares at cost or I will have no alternative but to pursue you for this breach of contract.

Your original OP & the main thread for BTC-MC still inaccurately states .15 BTC per month interest as I've already pointed out & makes no mention at all of any share split & reduced dividend, perhaps you could at least correct that.

Copy by PM. to yochdog & to Nefario.

The split was discussed here at length. 

I was unaware that Asset issuers were unable to change the contract verbiage in the event of a split, which is unfortunate.  I contacted the GLBSE support once before the 28th of June, but somehow that was lost in the shuffle. 

There was no intent to decieve.  I am not sure what your recourse is, but Bitcorp will not re-purchase your shares. 

Finally, just once again to point out your lack of research, this comes directly from the original thread for BTCMC:

Quote from: rjk on May 25, 2012, 02:24:01 AM
Quote from: Indemnified on May 25, 2012, 02:22:25 AM
Re. having shares on GLBSE, I find their "captcha" intolerable. Can sometimes go 50 attempts without success in logging on. And customer service is nil - there was no response to my e-mails about the captcha

I haven't had issues with it, but some have mentioned that you may need to wait a few seconds after entering it before clicking the button to continue. No idea why.


After some serious thought, we have decided to go ahead with out 10 for 1 stock split. 

All current shareholders are un-affected, they will merely be issued additional shares to make their new total 10X their initial share count. 

Dividend per share will now be .015 BTC per share.  Thus, if you own 10 chares currently, you are earning 1.5 BTC per month at our increased dividend rate.  You will earn the same 1.5 BTC on your 100 shares after the split. 

Let us know if you have any questions.  Split will be effective as of June 1. 

Angry neighborhood bastard mod here.

Nefario has a forum account, he can speak for himself.

I love me an angry mod!! 

Update for all shareholders

Here are the finalized numbers for last month:

Income statement for June, 2012

Production (in BTC)   +725.57
Sale of equip.           +105.00
Expenses                  -183.58
Dividends paid           -498.67
Net income                148.32



The dividend was 3x larger than what was promised, as a return of capital to our shareholders.  We felt we had enough operating capital on the balance sheet and it was only right to return the excess to investors. 

For July, we are targeting a dividend payment of .02 BTC per share, which ups the yield on the shares to approximately 30% annually (and that is excluding the extra large payment last month)

July is off to a great start, as we are sustaining well in excess of 50 GH/s. 

I was just quoting from Nefarios post here & not speaking for him & if you want to mod something how about the scammers tag for yochdog as he is in breach of a contract & refuses to buy back in the fraudulently sold shares in his Co.

... or I can just flag your account for moderation by the admins.

BTCMC and Yochdog have done nothing wrong as far as I can tell, nefario just refuses to fix the oversight in the GLBSE software. Go try to get free money out of someone else, its not happening here.

Not sure that your opinion about dealings on GLBSE would give justification for a scammer tag on these forums.  Completely different entities.  

Every one of the dozens of deals I have engaged in on these forums, I have fulfilled to the nth degree.  Any number of members will gladly confirm that.  


I recommend you continue selling your shares on the open market if you wish to exit the investment.  If you want to stick around for the increasing dividends and future expansion, all the better.  

On what grounds, I bought shares in good faith according to the contract offered on GLBSE that I saw & accepted, yochdog knew for 1 month that the contact was inaccurate, his original main BTC-MC OP still is also even more inaccurate promising .15 BTC per share returns, I would be more than happy to accept arbitration on this matter & as for calling me effectively a hustler well let someone unbiased arbitrate on that as well, just where in requesting my own funds back at cost for buying something that turned out to be not as stated in the contract am I trying to get free money?

On what grounds? You're now harassing three different members of the community. You have a problem with the contract as listed on GLBSE? Take it up with nefario.

I'm sorry I don't follow you, which three people? yochdog for one I assume but I wouldn't call it harassment - just trying to get a fair resolution to a breach of contract, but if I'm not allowed to bring that up for mediation then fine I shall accept that's how things work around here & act accordingly. As for taking it up with Nefario as you can see from his post quoted here just now I have done & await his follow up - I will abide by what ever mediation & solution he suggests if yochdog agrees to do them same, or by any mutually acceptable respected forum member here.

Hey yochdog, happy dividend day! :D

Dividends have been paid!

Did the month not go well? I thought you were targeting to pay .02 per share rather than .015?

The month went great......but we decided to stay at .015 this month for 2 reasons:

1)  We were offered some great hardware, and jumped at the chance to buy it....thus reducing available funds
2)  The contract on GLBSE still states the dividend is .015, and we want to avoid further confusion on ths issue.  Hence, we will have Nefario change it prior to dividends going out next month. 

July production looks like it came in at just over 804 BTC

We did not hit our 850 goal due to the massive increase in difficulty, and the fact that I went on vacation for a week and had several miners go down for a day or two. 

Final numbers will be posted soon. 

I wonder why share value is dropping :(

Also, I came late to GLBSE, I can get earlier dividends? (I am one of the Angels)

Not a lot of volume unfortunately.....it seems like all of the liquidity has been soaked up by Giga and a few Pirate bonds. 

I have your shares held in trust at the moment......would you like them tranferred to you on GLBSE?  If so, just give me your username. 

yochdog, do me a favor: when you do the monthly dividends report, also list the equivalent mhash at that day's difficulty since you do fixed dividend output. For such a big holding of DMC's, I want to keep the mhash equivalent accurate.

Also, when is the full 0.05 dividend starting to be paid?

You already transferred the shares (at 3 of July I think) :) But not the dividends.

I am Speeder in GLBSE too :)

My apologies!

Would you like additional shares in lieu of the missed dividend, or simply the BTC? 

yochdog,

Could you also provide a balance sheet statement along with your income statement each month?  My feeling is that since you don't pay out most of the income as dividends as other mining stocks do that  the current stock price isn't taking into account your cash on hand and potential for using it to grow your operations.

MORE SHAAAARES, SHAAAARES, SHAAAAAAAARES!!!

July numbers have been finalized:

Income statement for July, 2012

Production (in BTC)   +804.16
Sale of equip.            -
Expenses                  -389.00
Dividends paid          -150.00
Net income                265.16


Also, a request for a balance shee was made, thus we comply!

Balance Sheet: Aug 1, 2012
Short-term Assets
Cash:  BTC 1050.65
Accounts receivable:  0
Total Short-term Assets:  BTC 1050.65

Long-term Assets
Capital Assets (mining equipment):  $32,478
Total Long-term Assets:  $32,478
Total Short-term assets:  BTC 1050.65
Total Assets:  $32,478 + BTC 1050.65



I am not sure what is wrong with the market, but at the current GLBSE price, an investor can buy a share of BTCMC for approximately .55 BTC per share when the company has a net asset value of approximately .40 BTC per share.  So completely ingoring future earnings (which are still increasing), liquidation value alone is nearly enough to cover any investment.   

How people are choosing to pay more for perpetual bonds over equity interest is beyond me.  Perhaps I am not spreading the message well enough? 

Just after you posted, someone put a 0.72 big buy order... :)

I think they liked the post.


Can you make a post about expansion plans?

You need to post equivalent mhash based on today's difficulty. People only think in mhash.

Good point.

We are at nearly 60 GH/s....sometimes just over, but not sustaining yet while we work out a few trouble rigs. 

Oh man.

Lets say its 60 ghash even, and on August 1st you paid out on 3764 shares.

60000 / 3764 = 15.94 mhash. Did I fail at math somewhere along the way?

Well every share gets an equal amount of the hashing power.....even those still held by the founders. 

So you have to divide the 60 GH/s by 10,000. 

Okay, 6. Still, thats better than the 5 I've been writing them down as.

There are huge differences between bonds and shares. Bonds will payout coupons that are only function of difficulty regardless; your shares could stop paying dividends all together  if for whatever reason your company no longer makes profits, like soaring electricity cost, collapsing BTC value,  equipment failure/theft/fire  etc.

Now Im not saying I would rather hold bonds,  particularly not at current prices, If I had to chose I would also be much more likely to invest in your company, because the difficulty liability that bonds suffer is gigantic,  but you are comparing apples to oranges. (and diablo is writing them down as strawberries in his books).

We have addressed this......Over half of our farm is run on "free" electricity.  The other half has a blended cost of approximately .04 per KW/h.  I cannot draw up a scenario where electricity will ever be a problem for us. 

On another note, I am dumbfounded by the prices being paid for "perpetual" bonds.  One can literally walk out and buy 3x the hashing power for the same price just by purchasing some hardware, and keep the salvage value!

I personally think our stock offers a much better value to those who take the time to actually parse the difference between owning the underlying assets, and simply buying hashing power for 300% the market rate. 

Looks like we will soon be bringing on another 10+ GH/s in hashing power. 

This will most likely be our last expansion until the ASIC armageddon.  We will re-assess the situation if/when the BFL ASICs hit the market.


We would like to once again gently point out to market participants the following:

BTCMC now has approximately 7 MH/s per share. 
BTCMC now has approximately .45 BTC per share of cash and equipment. 


If you buy a share in BTCMC anywhere in the .50 BTC range, you are essentially getting hashes for free.  Just food for thought for the individuals still paying ridiculous premiums for bonds with no claim on the underlying assets. 

Delicious free mhash, om nom nom nom.

We will have the terahash ASIC from BFL? Or only the minor ones?

All depends.....

we will crunch the numbers once they actually hit the market.  As of now, we are unwilling to finance BFL with a zero interest loan. 

What I mean is: we are getting the necessary cash to buy it if it proves to be good idea?

Actually, I'm interested in this. Lets say BTCMC has the money to upgrade all the BFL hardware, and BFL isn't lying about specs. What will the mh/share be after upgrade?

We are accumulating cash in order to be prepared to move into ASICs if and when the time comes.  We recently used a portion of our cash to acquire the additional GH/s, but that can easily be sold to recoup some of the investment. 

I cannot begin to speculate what the MH/s per share will be after an ASIC upgrade......I would only say that we would aim to represent the same percentage of the over-all network as we do now. 

Happy dividend day!

Running late today, yochdog?

Dividends have been paid!

August results will be published soon.....looks like another solid month.

Hi Yochdog:

Are the August financials ready?

Looking forward to seeing how my investment is doing, and whether it was wise of me to stick with you rather than go with pirate  ;)

Well, since Pirate decided not to pay out his final week.... ;)

Hey buddy!

August was solid...I have just been busy with my day job and also acquiring new hardware!

I will make sure to get the numbers posted this weekend.  I apologize for the delay! 

Ok all, here are the August numbers:

Income statement for July, 2012

Production (in BTC)   +752.044
Sale of equip.            -
Expenses                  -402.00
Dividends paid          -150.00
Net income                200.044


Unfortunately, the insane increase in difficulty is finally taking its toll on us.  We have been able to keep ahead of it until this point, but this months rise was just too much.  That combined with an internet outage led to our first month over month decline in production ever.  We are disappointed by this, but are not dis-heartened!

What are we going to do to get back on the growth track?  We just secured an additional 12 GH/s at a very attractive prices.  This additional capacity should bring us back in line with difficulty and get our numbers back up. 

Happy dividend day, Yochdog!

Dividends are going to be a day late this month, as yours truly has been travelling, and just now got back into town!

I will process the dividends at work tomorrow.

Thanks all!

Hey all,

Here are the preliminary numbers for September:

Production (in BTC)    +649.82
Sale of equip.             -
Expenses                   -200.00
Dividends paid            -150.00
Net income                  299.82

The difficulty is really starting to take a toll on us.  I cannot increase mining capacity fast enough to keep up. 

The plan is to continue running the GPU farm indefinitely, until the time comes that expense = revenue.  At that point the GPU's will be liquidated. 

It is uncertain if we will be able to execute an ASIC upgrade, as the liquidity is not present to float more shares and acquire the necessary capital to purchase the equipment.  We will continue to work toward something on that front, but at this point we are up in the air.   

This assumes ASICs even exist, btw. Although I have my money behind ASICMINER on this one, there is still a chance ALL the ASIC companies are scams.

What plans have you made to carry this forward now that GLBSE appears to be closed for good according to Theymos (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115669.0) & have you contacted Nefario as yet to get a list of asset holders?

Pretty unfortunate situation.

I am waiting to see what Nefario's plans are, then acting accordingly. 

Here are the October numbers:

Income statement for Oct, 2012

Production (in BTC)   +630.091
Sale of equip.            -
Expenses                  -184.50
Dividends paid           -150.00  (held in trust)
Net income                 295.591

Any contact with Nefario? (DeaDTerra has his phone number available to asset issuers)

several e-mails.  No phone contact attempted yet. 

I am not going to waste my time until I hear from other operators that Nefario is providing something to anyone. 

The contact I have had with him is pretty minimum and he hasn't given out any new information.
He can't give me a ETA or much of a progress report.
//DeaDTerra

This mirrors what I have heard from several forum members.  Disappointing to say the least. 

I am willing to pay you for your time if you will phone him and offer to purchase expedited access to trading history and benefical owners of BTCMC

Hey all,

I have received a list from Nefario that purports to show all holders of BTCMC.  However, the e-mail has a caveat saying updates may follow, so I am treating it as preliminary. 

In order to verify the authenticity of the list, I am instituting a simple process.  For those persons claiming to be a shareholder, you must do 3 things:

1)  Send an e-mail to bitcorpmining@gmail.com from THE E-MAIL ADDRESS YOU USED TO REGISTER FOR GLBSE.
2)  In this e-mail, you must provide the withdrawal address used at GLBSE.
3)  In this e-mail, you must list the amount of shares you are claiming to own

All 3 of these items are mandatory.  No exceptions. 


Other items:

- We will be providing November results later on today. 
- We are discontinuing dividends as of the Oct. payment to conserve our resources for potential ASIC purchases. 
- There is no plan to re-list shares due to the black cloud hanging over the Bitcoin world legally. 

info 1) 2) 3) sent as requested, please to confirm it tallies with that sent to you by Nefario, many thanks

Please make clear what is meant by: 2) "withdrawal address used at GLBSE"

I would hate to inadvertently send the wrong info

A way to help facilitate this for those who don't know their GLBSE withdrawal address would be to do what Gigavps did & issue a SHA-256 list of these addresses with corresponding assets held, see:

http://gigamining.com/glbse-records.html

Edit: I believe that the GLBSE W/D address is the one that you gave when claiming your GLBSE account from Nefario's claim process.

That's the one.

Here are the November numbers:

Income statement for Nov, 2012

Production (in BTC)   +539.99
Sale of equip.            -
Expenses                  -196.50
Dividends paid           -0 (suspended until further notice)
Net income                 343.49

It seems rather random that dividends can just be suspended backdated to the previous month with no discussion, prior explanation, feedback or vote (that I'm aware of), it seems like all profits are now just being kept - at least before there was some small regular return from buying you a mining farm that we are meant to be part owners of.

Thanks. How about a Balance Sheet?

That will be provided at year end along with dividend payments for October for those who have properly verified their shares. 

Not random at all.  It was announced on December 6th that dividends are going to be suspended in order to accumulate funds for ASIC expansion. 

Paying out ever shrinking BTC from GPU mining is a bad long-term plan.

So when are you going to start selling off the GPU hardware? IMO you should already be selling off the worst hardware, 5830s and such, not sure what you actually have in your farm, do you have a list somewhere?

The farm is exclusively 5970's and 7970's.  probably 70% 7970, 30% 5970

I will not sell anything until cost exceeds revenue.  We have such an insanely low cost structure, it makes sense to continue hashing with GPU's while others have to bail. 

Yeah, I don't know what you're paying in kwh either. If its like half as much as everyone else, you can keep mining twice as long (where difficulty is now a unit of time)

I sent my info in on the 6th Dec & got this reply "Thank you.  Keep an eye on the thread for more info, and we should have this resolved in the next 2 weeks. "

It's now 4 weeks & even allowing for the holidays some update should be given as to why this is taking over twice as long as planned. ???

I have received 3 different lists and am attempting to cross reference and verify which listings are accurate. 

You should have received a "final" list from Nefario, This is the list containing all the info in his database this should be your reference list.
//DeaDTerra

Like I said, I have several in hand, including the one he claims in Final.

I have confirmed the majority of the persons on the list, but am still hoping a few stragglers get their info in soon. 

Once we hit 80%, accrued dividends will be paid out and the claims process will be closed. 

Subsequent to that, once ASIC mining begins in earnest a new dividend policy will be established to fit the new realities of mining. 

This list should contain all the same people as the previous versions but also the people who haven't claimed and who haven't paid the double payment.
If it doesn't then somethings wrong with that list.
Okay good :)
//DeaDTerra

Update for all shareholders:

I have verified 80%+ of shareholders.  On February 1st, the dividends held in trust (150 BTC) will be paid out to verified shareholders to the address submitted with their claims.  No changes to this address will be allowed. 

No balance sheet will be presented at this time, as it will be useless with the massive changes that are inevitably coming in the next 2-3 weeks.  Once ASIC's hit, and a decision is made on what to do with our GPU's, informative financial statements will be provided. 

What was the total float of shares?

There are 10,000 shares outstanding. 

"Once we hit 80%, accrued dividends will be paid out and the claims process will be closed."

'I have verified 80%+ of shareholders.  On February 1st, the dividends held in trust (150 BTC) will be paid out to verified shareholders to the address submitted with their claims."

So now it's wait another 3 weeks, doesn't really surprise me any more how this is panning out & I still think that Nov & subsequent dividends should not be marked as suspended & zero but actually shown as owed & put aside in a specific public address rather than just deciding unilaterally to hang on to them after they became due.

What is God's name are you talking about?  There were no subsequent dividends after Nov.  Should i just create some?

Dividends have always been on the first of the month, and that will not change. 

Oct 2012 due 1st Nov 2012, we have to wait 3 more weeks for, even though you said it would be paid when 80% of the claims were in & they are.
Nov 2012 due 1st Dec 2012, but was cancelled on the 6th Dec without any consultation or vote by the share owners.
Dec 2012 would have been due 1st Jan 2013, but also now just being held by you & not paid out without stating how much was earned/due.

Jan 2013 due 1st Feb 2013, you plan to just hang on to that too it seems.

so it goes...

Edit: the only reason there are no subsequent dividends after Nov is that you just decided unilaterally to stop paying any & instead to hold on to any btc that have been earned.

I own the super majority of the shares.  I do not need to consult or take a vote to make any decision, as I whichever way I vote wins. 

The earnings are being retained by the company in order to make the best decision in regards to ASIC and other investment.  Paying out further dividends at this point would be foolish as it would drain capital that could potentially be better utilized once the ASIC picture clears up. 

I agree on both points (it is the best decision - and you have the majority vote anyway).

Although I only today remembered to claim my shares back :(

If I still have them... I might say that I agree with your decision.

yochdog,

I've tried PM-ing and emailing you guys.  What is the process for getting my shares off of GLBSE and transferred over to you, I haven't received any communication regarding this, and it sounds like a list of shareholders from GLBSE is currently in the process of moving forward.

thanks.

Hey, sorry Bitsense.  I have received your info and all is well.

Just been swamped elsewhere and overlooked your PM. 

Great, thank you!

Hey yochdog, please do an assets statement on Feb 1st. I'd like to know where we stand on the ASICs fund.

I reiterate D3 request.

Also I sent you more e-mail.

* shakes fist at nefario *

Hello all,

Quick update:  I am out of the office, and will not be back until Monday (I thought I would return tomorrow).  Thus, I will not be in a position to send out dividends until Monday.  I have finalized the list of holders, and have all payment addresses ready to roll. 

Payments will go out no later than 5:00 EST on Monday, Feb. 4th

I am also working on a balance sheet to present by the end of next week for review. 

-cheers

All dividends owed have been paid this morning to verified shareholders.

An updated balance sheet will be presented soon.....we have to make some adjustments for depreciation on the GPU miners. 

I can confirm DMC's receipt of the dividend.

Balance Sheet: Feb 1, 2013

Short-term Assets
  Cash:  BTC 815.51 (majority locked in Bitcoinica liquidation)
  Accounts receivable:  0
  ASIC pre-orders, not delivered:  $8,000
  Total Short-term Assets:  BTC 815.51 + $8,000

Long-term Assets
  Capital Assets (mining equipment):  $25,000

Total assets
  Total Short-term assets:  BTC 815.51
  Total Long-term Assets:  $25,000
  Total Assets:  $25,000 + BTC 815.51 + $8,000 (not in hand) 

What did Bitcorps money do on bitcoinica if I may ask?
//DeaDTerra

Was there for conversion into USD to finance hardware acquisition. 

aouch that seems very unlucky.
//DeaDTerra

Tell me about it.  I suppose it could end up being the opposite if it is ever paid out.  I was converting when the price was down around 4-5.  Obviously worth 500% that now. 

Would you please break down
    "Cash:  BTC 815.51 (majority locked in Bitcoinica liquidation)"

into two lines, "cash locked in Bitcoinica liquidation" and "free cash"

I would find that much more informative.

749 BTC is locked in the Bitcoinica liquidation. 

That leaves 66.51 left. Also, who did you pre-order the ASICs with? Please don't say BFL.

If you preordered with BFL, combined with the Bitcoinica loss, we're out $26k.

They are indeed with BFL.  I have no reason to believe they are anything but delayed, and in fact am travelling to their location in the coming weeks for an in person inspection. 

Conjecture all you like, but the likelihood of fraud seems very low to me. 

Bitcoinica is in liquidation, and actually has a seemingly legitimate firm dealing with the assets.  I am cautiously optimistic that at some point we will recover a portion of the 749 BTC. 

If you could, would you also buy ASIC from the chinese guys?

I think you mean Avalon. Its not worth it to get in on Batch #3 unless they cut the price in half and/or double the performance.

I see.

I don't understand much of this (well, if I did, I would mine myself, instead of investing here :P)

I realize the current time is quite confusing, and a time of great flux. 

My hope is that in 6 months, the ASIC picture will have cleared up, we will be mining away on multiple ASIC rigs, and there will be some movement on the Bitcoinica liquidation. 

hi, any feedback yet on bfl asic's. I heard it was about now some should be shipped? have you visited and seen them yet? anything tangible at all? R.

yochdog,
I did not receive any dividends from this latest payout.  I've been a shareholder since before you began trading on GLBSE, and it had sounded like I had been verified from the GLBSE list.

thanks

Send me a PM with your info again.  I paid out all verified holders, so somehow I must have missed you. 

Is there an exchange where BTCMC can be bought now?  Or is anyone looking to sell shares?  (And also, what prices have shares sold for recently?)

There are no exchange anymore, only a list of the last glbse shareholders, my initial.investment was 80 btc, and later I spent some dividends, right now I get with my shares about 2btc mo. If you make a good offer I might sell... A flood destroyed my stuff and I need new workstation...

BTCMC shares have paid nothing out since Oct 2012's earnings, so there is a backlog of 3 - soon to be 4 month's dividends that you might like to take in to account, but also some of the share holder's funds were trusted to the margin gambling site Bitcoinica which no mining op should have risked & was only admitted to months later so something else to bare in mind when valuing them.

Humm... good point.

Granted I lost money there too (not with their closing though... I went 10x leveraged and lost 200 BTC or something like that)

Could you please supply investors with January and February income statements. It would be nice to know what's going on.

Also, I sent you a e-mail about my address... I hope you check it before you send dividends!

Given we're at $145, theres no dividends for this month either?

I was wondering why we haven't seen a dividend yet as well.  I've also asked for an updated income statement and balance sheet as I haven't seen any numbers since Oct 2012.

Hey guys,

As I have stated before, no dividends will be paid out until our ASIC hardware arrives.  I will be presenting updated financials once we receive the new hardware, which I hope is within 30 days. 

What we all need to do is put pressure on MT Gox to assist the receiver with the Bitcoinica debacle, as the amount of money we have tied up there is now approaching $100,000.

yochdog

I will need to change my address again.

The first address was a mtgox address (that I did not knew that it changes)
The second address was at mercadobitcoin (that got hacked a week ago).

Also, yes, we need to figure how to get our money back from mtgox :/ Anyone else know who else beside mtgox is involved? I heard there was two guys handling the bitcoinica stuff, but I don't remember their names.

BTW, you've been outbid on the ASICMINER blades. ;)

I see that.....if only GLBSE would pay its fucking debts, we would be in an incredible position to buy the blades and more. 

Second auction is up: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189248.0

Does anyone remember what the original IPO price was?

0.8 IIRC

1st of the month, dividends outstanding now include: Nov, Dec 2012 & Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr 2013.

Gigavps has been receiving & running some of his BFL's ASICs, I trust that BTCMC's are also coming online atm.

Unfortunately no.....not everyone gets favored status and inside deals from BFL like Giga and others. 

I will definitely let everyone know when the equipment arrives. 

Dividends were suspended last year.....there are none outstanding. 

Hi Yochdog!

Diablo has suddenly decided to strip us DMC shareholders of our ownership of/exposure to BTCMC.   >:(

He says it's "worthless" because it isn't trading and BFL is lagging.   ::)

He claims your hardware and infrastructure


His hare-brained scheme is to steal DMC's investment in BTCMC and use it for DMC 2.0, which is some blue-sky fantasy about disrupting cloud storage completely unrelated to Bitcoin.

 ???  Any advice?   :-\

Wow, you've dragged your trolling into this thread too?

If he thinks thousands (at wholesale) in equipment is worthless, I suppose that is his call.

Unfortunately, I have no power to help you out.....

Why don't you want me to enquire as to Yochdog's opinion of your unflattering characterization of his mining company?

You should welcome his confirmation of the correctness of your negative evaluation of BTCMC.

Yochdog, may I buy DMC's 1000 shares now?  If not, I understand, but will you honor an agreement between Diablo and myself to transfer the shares when possible?

Yes, I will facilitate private transactions of shares between consenting parties. 

Awesome!  Thanks YD.

Really? So if I go run an auction selling the shares, thats totally fine with you?

You have to sell the entire lot.  I will not break down current holdings into smaller blocks.

If you run an auction, and both parties verify they accept the terms, I will transfer ownership. 

Ahh, that makes it a tad more problematic.

Should be easy!  You have marked the shares to zero on your books, so anything you get out of them is a bonus to your shareholders.  I say full steam ahead.  

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lol yochdog

You're welcome Diablo.

Hey yochdog,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237710.0

Giga is claiming he has a BFL ASIC now.

Any news here? Last comment from yoch was more than 2 months ago.

Waiting on BFL gear.  

I am considering liquidating BTCMC and closing down.  The diff growth rate is going to make keeping up a losing prospect, even with significant ASIC resources.  

A bummer for sure.  Losing the barriers to entry that GPU mining gave us really screwed the business model.  

Some mistakes have been made (understandably), some bad luck has been encountered, and so my investments havw not paid off as I had hoped. At least I did not invest with any Pirates
 ;D

 Would you be so kind as to give a snapshot of the current situation (order dates for BFL ascics, btc and hardware on hand, etc.) so that I can learn from the situation and perhaps be a better investor in the future.

Thanks for giving it a try. Too bad our dreams were not realized.

Ya, leaving funds at Bitcoinica was a dumb, dumb mistake.  I still cling to a shred of hope that asshole Kerpeles will do the right thing and stop obstructing the conservators trying to wind up Bitcoinica, as we have a verified claim. 

I will present some updated numbers, with current salvage values by the end of August.....there is a lot to document.  There is a large amount of hardware to be sorted, valued, and liquidated.  I may simply make a buyout offer to all partners in order to simplify the process. 

We have a payday of July 7th with BFL.  At the rate they are going, we might have some ASIC's by November. 

hi YD,

Thx for update.  What is the July 7 BLF payday?

Have you tried scrypt mining at multipool.in or middlecoin?

once you have inventory done maybe Diablo will finally auction our stake, which could help you find the right price for the rest.

BTW, have you researched the franchising option that AM is about to offer? It might fit ideally with this operation...

If you end up liquidating, that'd be a shame. But I'll support you if thats what you decide to do.

bleeding edge business is always risky.

Too bad I lost so much money so far :(

For the ASICS I lined up for BTCMC, the paydate is July 7th. 

Until they start shipping that pay-date, we are stuck in the mud. 

What ASCICS have you got lined up ( all singles, or hopefully something else too?)

hi, trying to get up to date with your plan! you were considering liquidating !. have you decided?. I have not had any info, divs since glbse closed and no idea what any offer for the shares may be. any guidance on this or is it still being worked out?.is end of august still the plan? reg.

Looks like the start of liquidation, maybe (??):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=274304.0

Hey all.

I am locking this thread, and will correspond with all partners through their registered e-mail address.  Look for something regarding the liquidation in the next 2 weeks. 

thanks.