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Title: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: freedombit on November 24, 2014, 06:09:48 AM This Wednesday, November 26 is the next "Creditors" meeting, and still, no addresses or transaction information is exposed. This is information that can be released to the public, but hasn't. Why?
If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials. While there is no replacement for individual responsibility; a peaceful society cannot exist if it allows a handful of people to withhold information that could lead to the discovery of a potential hijacking of world finance and politics. Where are the voices? Feb 28: Mark Karpeles, head of the MtGox operation was the first to stop talking about MtGox after the company was either put into or opted for bankruptcy protection. May 1: Kolin Burges and MtGoxProtest: http://www.mtgoxprotest.com/?p=378, https://twitter.com/The_K_meister May 8: Sunlot Group wraps up class action lawsuit in the United States with behind the scenes settlement: http://www.savegox.com/?p=130. May 25: Willy Report by willyreport: http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/, http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26g46e/the_willy_report_proof_of_massive_fraudulent/ Mar 20: Erik Rodenbach, Mary Becica, and Kai Chang and the Stamen Group: http://bitcoin.stamen.com/ May 25: Olivier Janssens and the MtGox Recovery Effort: http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/, http://blog.mtgoxrecovery.com/, https://twitter.com/mtgoxrecovery June: MtGoxLeaker and a very organized effort on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxaddresses/wiki/analysis June: Weili Huang and Petition to Nobuaki Kobayashi: https://www.change.org/p/nobuaki-kobayashi-allow-us-creditors-bitcoin-community-members-to-join-the-mtgox-investigation, http://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/276wcc/an_open_letter_to_mr_nobuaki_kobayashi/ June 29: Dr. Amit Steinhart and the Corporate Competitive Intelligence MtGox Investigation Effort: http://www.mtgoxinvestigation.com/index.html Sept 12: Professor Karl-Friedrich Lenz: http://k.lenz.name/LB/?p=10916 A couple efforts that are still alive: MtGox.gr, MtGox creditors: http://www.mtgox.gr/blog-news MtGox Creditors: http://mtgoxcreditors.org/ Oliver and Gox-Self-Help https://www.olivere.de/mailman/listinfo/gox-self-help And then there is the Grand Master: Nov 26: We should be hearing again from Nobuaki Kobayashi. This date is on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, so any outcome will easily be lost in United States news. Hopefully Mr. Kobayashi will present the blockchain data for MtGox addresses before, after, and during the supposed heist. If you feel so inclined, join the noise: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=628191.0. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: CoinsOrDie on November 24, 2014, 06:28:51 AM Good collection of information. Indeed, MtGox needs to be monitored still. I already made my losses and cashed out at a 80% loss of value so I can't get anything back but still...
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Swordsoffreedom on November 24, 2014, 07:45:17 AM Thanks for the tabs
I haven't been keeping up with Mtgox for quite some time myself but there are a lot of coins there to my knowledge it was quiet The main focus is on the Silk Road at present but without a doubt gox is still relevant. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: bitboy11 on November 24, 2014, 08:08:01 AM Well of course it is still relevant.
In a few years, some investors who submit their government information will receive a portion of those funds. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: iGotSpots on November 24, 2014, 08:22:23 AM Nice list, thanks
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: DrApricot on November 24, 2014, 08:08:47 PM This Wednesday, November 26 is the next "Creditors" meeting, and still, no addresses or transaction information is exposed. This is information that can be released to the public, but hasn't. Why? If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials. While there is no replacement for individual responsibility; a peaceful society cannot exist if it allows a handful of people to withhold information that could lead to the discovery of a potential hijacking of world finance and politics. Who is behind this apparent campaign of silence, and why? What if after this week's hearing in Tokyo, we are not left with any more information than we have today? In other words, the stonewall continues? Apparently, Mark Karpeles himself has even signed on to this NDA, and can't talk about anything but the weather, his mother's apple pie recipe and driving around Japan in his car. I invite you to review a list put together by freedombit last March 1, and ask yourself which of his six possibilities for what happened is most consistent with the stonewalling behaviour we have witnessed in the aftermath of Mt. Gox: Quote 1) MtGox (or one of its employees) was fraudulent: they intentionally engaged in fractional reserve banking without disclosure to its customers or flat out stole fiat cash and/or Bitcoin. 2) MtGox (or employee) was negligent, and was a victim of theft: MtGox accidentally engaged in fractional reserve banking due to a bug or poor accounting without knowing (the Double Spend) and one or more people outside of MtGox took advantage of this. (This is the equivalent to someone leaving the door to their home open and a burglar, seeing this, walking in and taking goods from the home.) 3) MtGox (or an employee) was negligent, period: MtGox put 800,000 coins into cold storage and forgot the password, building burned down without backup, etc... 4) MtGox is victim of government intervention: It is possible that a government (likely US or Japan) has frozen Bitcoin and/or FIAT cash accounts. As the hot wallets are depleted due to concern of lost Bitcoins, the company is forced to declare bankruptcy. Gag order prevents MtGox executives from saying anything. 5) MtGox is a victim of theft: Someone or group of people have found a way to steal Bitcoin from MtGox, using a weakness in either MtGox's software. 6) Bitcoin has a weakness enabling people to steal from one another. Original post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494864.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494864.0) Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: 1Referee on November 24, 2014, 09:48:45 PM Currently the largest wallet contains 144K coins, but a while ago there was a wallet with 350K coins in it.
Any idea from who that wallet was? An exchange or something? Or perhaps a large chunk of the MtGox coins? Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Flashman on November 24, 2014, 10:07:28 PM Recent statements by Roger Ver seem to imply that the lawyers and others have more to gain by prolonging the problem, hence, it will be settled when there's no more funds to bill fees against.
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: BayAreaCoins on November 24, 2014, 10:16:54 PM Isn't BTC trading as forcasted @ $10,000 on Mtgox?!
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Argwai96 on November 25, 2014, 03:06:02 AM If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials. The official story by Gox is that they lost the 650k bitcoin over a long period of time to many of their customers. The customers may have not intended to receive more then what they were owed but likely did not do anything to rectify the situation when they were overpaid. Also it is likely that much of the bitcoin was lost prior to bitcoin being worth anywhere near what it is worth now so the fiat value of the losses at the time of the loss is likely small Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: cyberpinoy on November 25, 2014, 04:28:05 AM If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials. The official story by Gox is that they lost the 650k bitcoin over a long period of time to many of their customers. The customers may have not intended to receive more then what they were owed but likely did not do anything to rectify the situation when they were overpaid. Also it is likely that much of the bitcoin was lost prior to bitcoin being worth anywhere near what it is worth now so the fiat value of the losses at the time of the loss is likely small The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth. Also i have to wonder if they overpaid to a MTGOX wallet for thier customers we all know they had the ability to get those coins back and make a new transaction for the correct amount. maybe not all of them but a most of them could have been taken back before the customers could move them to offline wallets. I know this ould seem a little scandelous, but ask yourself is that more scandalous than outright stealing 600 thousand plus bitcoins from its members with no repercussions for thier actions. not to mention the tarnished reputation it has given bitcoin. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: bornil267645 on November 25, 2014, 05:19:00 AM MtGox should be the prime example to all the new users out there. But right now, I think we should stay cautious about Bitcoin. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Soros Shorts on November 25, 2014, 07:11:52 AM The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth. To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with? Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: TinaK on November 25, 2014, 10:25:11 AM MtGox is died, but MtGox' story is still circulating in the community.
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: magicmexican on November 25, 2014, 10:45:02 AM If a day comes when i will get my precious GoxCoins it will be like x-mas.
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: BitCoinNutJob on November 25, 2014, 04:18:31 PM MtGox is died, but MtGox' story is still circulating in the community. it wont stop yet, there is tons of stuff to clear up, gox case isnt going anywhere, people still waiting on the 200k coins to be divided. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: LiteCoinGuy on November 25, 2014, 05:38:38 PM Magicaltux (Mt. Gox CEO) tweets that Chinese and Korean hackers are likely to blame for massive Sony Entertainment data breach. No shared thoughts yet on how he has used his investigative skills to try to explain what happened to 650k BTC and millions of dollars at his own company, Mt. Gox.
https://twitter.com/magicaltux/status/537197032130084864 :P Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: BitCoinNutJob on November 25, 2014, 05:52:10 PM Magicaltux (Mt. Gox CEO) tweets that Chinese and Korean hackers are likely to blame for massive Sony Entertainment data breach. No shared thoughts yet on how he has used his investigative skills to try to explain what happened to 650k BTC and millions of dollars at his own company, Mt. Gox. https://twitter.com/magicaltux/status/537197032130084864 :P He is one hell of a scammer, kept himself out of jail and hasnt been physically assaulted by any gox customers, he will even scam his way out of hell. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Ron~Popeil on November 25, 2014, 07:31:37 PM Magicaltux (Mt. Gox CEO) tweets that Chinese and Korean hackers are likely to blame for massive Sony Entertainment data breach. No shared thoughts yet on how he has used his investigative skills to try to explain what happened to 650k BTC and millions of dollars at his own company, Mt. Gox. https://twitter.com/magicaltux/status/537197032130084864 :P Why is he still talking publicly? Does he not realize that people despise him and every peep out of his mouth just makes them angrier? This guy is tone deaf. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: AtheistAKASaneBrain on November 25, 2014, 11:14:26 PM If a day comes when i will get my precious GoxCoins it will be like x-mas. How many coins did you lose?Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: magicmexican on November 25, 2014, 11:34:14 PM If a day comes when i will get my precious GoxCoins it will be like x-mas. How many coins did you lose?Around 10 or so, nothing too huge, but getting even a fraction one day would be nice indeed. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: freedombit on November 26, 2014, 05:53:56 AM Recent statements by Roger Ver seem to imply that the lawyers and others have more to gain by prolonging the problem, hence, it will be settled when there's no more funds to bill fees against. Ver is right about the incentive to prolong. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: freedombit on November 26, 2014, 05:55:24 AM Currently the largest wallet contains 144K coins, but a while ago there was a wallet with 350K coins in it. Any idea from who that wallet was? An exchange or something? Or perhaps a large chunk of the MtGox coins? Interesting. Can you reference the wallets? Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: freedombit on November 26, 2014, 05:58:04 AM The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth. To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with? Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: freedombit on November 26, 2014, 06:00:26 AM If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials. The official story by Gox is that they lost the 650k bitcoin over a long period of time to many of their customers. The customers may have not intended to receive more then what they were owed but likely did not do anything to rectify the situation when they were overpaid. Also it is likely that much of the bitcoin was lost prior to bitcoin being worth anywhere near what it is worth now so the fiat value of the losses at the time of the loss is likely small Source? Last time I checked the official story was here: https://www.mtgox.com/ Unfortunately the official story seems to change. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: _biO_ on November 26, 2014, 12:18:38 PM The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth. To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with? Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins. Maybe they didn't move all that much. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Flashman on November 26, 2014, 12:22:23 PM The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth. To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with? Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins. Maybe they didn't move all that much. Okay, quick example... Blockchain says three amounts went out of gox on certain date... 4.93852 BTC 9.8512 BTC 1.0002124 BTC Right then, who got more than they should have? Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: LiteCoinGuy on November 26, 2014, 06:47:01 PM Mark owns two cats now.
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Flashman on November 26, 2014, 07:21:26 PM What, he discovered that the original one which he kept asking for technical advice was hugely trolling him?
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: anshar on November 26, 2014, 08:33:07 PM I dont get why Kraken would want to get involved in this giant mess of an exchange..
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Flashman on November 26, 2014, 08:39:17 PM Kraken hunts MtGox lost coins....
http://www.wirebiters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/mums732-bl-ppl-i036f-002-001.jpg Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Billbags on November 26, 2014, 10:02:34 PM I never dealt with them due to their practice of centralizing your coins while holding them. It looked too much like a bank to me. But I do feel for the people who lost so much with them.
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: FattyMcButterpants on November 27, 2014, 01:13:57 PM The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth. To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with? Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins. Maybe they didn't move all that much. Okay, quick example... Blockchain says three amounts went out of gox on certain date... 4.93852 BTC 9.8512 BTC 1.0002124 BTC Right then, who got more than they should have? Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: freedombit on December 05, 2014, 08:44:59 AM The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth. To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with? Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins. Maybe they didn't move all that much. Okay, quick example... Blockchain says three amounts went out of gox on certain date... 4.93852 BTC 9.8512 BTC 1.0002124 BTC Right then, who got more than they should have? This is very simple math and not complicated by any means. A lot of calculations? Yes? Difficult? No. Just tie each Blockchain address with Goxxed "Temporarily Unavailable" Bitcoin value in it back to preceding transactions, both in the Blockchain and in the off-chain trading logs. The real question is, "Why doesn't the administrator share the addresses containing the missing Bitcoin value?" Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: botany on December 05, 2014, 08:18:21 PM Okay, quick example... Blockchain says three amounts went out of gox on certain date... 4.93852 BTC 9.8512 BTC 1.0002124 BTC Right then, who got more than they should have? We just have to assume that the court appointed process of liquidation is fair, and that nobody got more than what they should have. :) Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: Gyrsur on December 05, 2014, 08:19:38 PM nice, thanks!
Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: jbreher on December 06, 2014, 02:58:47 AM We just have to assume that the court appointed process of liquidation is fair, and that nobody got more than what they should have. :) Nonsense. We _know_ the lawyers got more than their fair share. Title: Re: MtGox: Still Relevant Post by: LiteCoinGuy on December 06, 2014, 03:30:00 PM More drama at Mt. Gox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRmgQH0TbJ4 :o |
