MtGox: Still Relevant

[magicmexican]

If a day comes when i will get my precious GoxCoins it will be like x-mas.

How many coins did you lose?

Around 10 or so, nothing too huge, but getting even a fraction one day would be nice indeed.

[freedombit]

Recent statements by Roger Ver seem to imply that the lawyers and others have more to gain by prolonging the problem, hence, it will be settled when there's no more funds to bill fees against.

Ver is right about the incentive to prolong.

[freedombit]

Currently the largest wallet contains 144K coins, but a while ago there was a wallet with 350K coins in it.

Any idea from who that wallet was? An exchange or something? Or perhaps a large chunk of the MtGox coins?

Interesting. Can you reference the wallets?

[freedombit]

The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth.

To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with?

Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins.

[freedombit]

If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials.

The official story by Gox is that they lost the 650k bitcoin over a long period of time to many of their customers. The customers may have not intended to receive more then what they were owed but likely did not do anything to rectify the situation when they were overpaid.

Also it is likely that much of the bitcoin was lost prior to bitcoin being worth anywhere near what it is worth now so the fiat value of the losses at the time of the loss is likely small

Source? Last time I checked the official story was here:
https://www.mtgox.com/

Unfortunately the official story seems to change.

[_biO_]

The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth.

To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with?

Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins.

Maybe they didn't move all that much.

[Flashman]

The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth.

To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with?

Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins.

Maybe they didn't move all that much.

Okay, quick example...

Blockchain says three amounts went out of gox on certain date...

4.93852 BTC
9.8512 BTC
1.0002124 BTC

Right then, who got more than they should have?

[LiteCoinGuy]

Mark owns two cats now.

[Flashman]

What, he discovered that the original one which he kept asking for technical advice was hugely trolling him?

[anshar]

I dont get why Kraken would want to get involved in this giant mess of an exchange..

[Flashman]

Kraken hunts MtGox lost coins....

[Billbags]

I never dealt with them due to their practice of centralizing your coins while holding them. It looked too much like a bank to me. But I do feel for the people who lost so much with them.

[FattyMcButterpants]

The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth.

To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with?

Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins.

Maybe they didn't move all that much.

Okay, quick example...

Blockchain says three amounts went out of gox on certain date...

4.93852 BTC
9.8512 BTC
1.0002124 BTC

Right then, who got more than they should have?

None of them. You would want to look for transactions when there are two exact amounts that are both confirmed in nearly the same block, and are both sent to the same address. Once you filter out all the other transactions what you have left is likely going to be what gox lost

[freedombit]

The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth.

To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with?

Blockchain data would be enough to follow the coins. It was 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy. All it takes is one slip. The fungibility of bitcoin is important, and we should do nothing to hamper that. However, I don't see an issue with following the coins.

Maybe they didn't move all that much.

Okay, quick example...

Blockchain says three amounts went out of gox on certain date...

4.93852 BTC
9.8512 BTC
1.0002124 BTC

Right then, who got more than they should have?

This is very simple math and not complicated by any means. A lot of calculations? Yes? Difficult? No. Just tie each Blockchain address with Goxxed "Temporarily Unavailable" Bitcoin value in it back to preceding transactions, both in the Blockchain and in the off-chain trading logs. The real question is, "Why doesn't the administrator share the addresses containing the missing Bitcoin value?"

 

[botany]

Okay, quick example...

Blockchain says three amounts went out of gox on certain date...

4.93852 BTC
9.8512 BTC
1.0002124 BTC

Right then, who got more than they should have?

We just have to assume that the court appointed process of liquidation is fair, and that nobody got more than what they should have.

[Gyrsur]

nice, thanks!

[jbreher]

We just have to assume that the court appointed process of liquidation is fair, and that nobody got more than what they should have.

Nonsense. We _know_ the lawyers got more than their fair share.

[LiteCoinGuy]

More drama at Mt. Gox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRmgQH0TbJ4