Bitcoin Forum

Oh and

http://i.minus.com/iv3MCWDEhGJyH.png

cool


"prepaid bitcoin cards" - i'm guessing they will be for sale only online, not in retail?

could you give a short des.

is this like bitbills?

Yes it is similar to BitBills however mass production will allow us to have a much lower production cost.  We can print and verify roughly 200 cards per hour. Initially distribution will be online only however we hope to someday bring it to retail stores.    Bitcoin would need to be much bigger for any chain to be interested.  The goal is to create an easy user friendly way to buy Bitcoins.  Something your non-technical friends and family can handle that doesn't involve exchanges and wire transfers.  We hope to broaden the base of Bitcoin users.  Go to a website, buy a Bitcoin card with your credit card, and redeem it when it arrives in the mail or hang on to it for secure offline storage.

The initial version will have no magnetic stripe but our equipment has magnetic encoding capabilities so we can produce a card which could be activated using standard POS terminal for offline sales.  Very similar to a giftcard which has no value until activated by cashier.

I said "FINALLY!!" when I saw the first post.

Then I read your next post.

I don't understand how this is interesting in the slightest for online sales.  Why would I want to buy a prepaid Bitcoin card and wait for it in the mail instead of just instantly receiving my Bitcoin as soon as I pay for it?  And, hasn't it already been done with Bitbills and Causicisuccuisusucss coins?

So, here's my suggestion:  Push hard to get them into a store.  Any store.  Then push for more, and more.  You'd be a huge step ahead of Bitinstant in the retail environment..!  Even if it's just a trial run in a single 7-11 store, or a single slot on the shelf at your local WalMart, or ???  But that's what I'd be aiming for with these cards.

BTW, I do love the design.  Clean, slick, and noticeable.

+1

Though if you can use a CC that is a step.

Sadly, only works with alt-chain Bitcoinz...

probably the types of ppl who buy these online won't have or desire a desktop client to receive the coins immediately.  they want a bitcoin store that they can stick in their wallet and for making payments face to face.


yes, but we have to assume Bitbills is defunct.  its been too long.


this is a great point.  they would be one huge step closer to the buyer.


me too.  don't forget these can be used for mementos as well.

If you caught the Apple keynote, then you'll know that Apple wants to control all of your tickets, rewards/loyalty cards and store credit cards. If you can trick them into hosting this thing also, it could be a foot in the backdoor of their one wallet empire. But since they have killed all the bitcoin software on their store, it seems unlikely. Maybe you can talk to MNW about working with his device/app store.

Exciting.  I really wanted some bitbills.

Are you also going to make bank cards and payment cards like bitbills was going to?

Big chains probably wouldn't be interested, but I've noticed that many ethnic food stores sell international phone cards.  They'd probably be interested in selling this too.

Also, be careful of calling them 'prepaid' since that has a specific legal definition in the US.

PM Sent. Could be interesting.

How do you plan mitigate the chargeback risk associated with accepting credit cards?

LOL i could totally see some good trucker paying for his meal to be ready in 2 hours when he gets to the next stop.

to you naysayers, this is the catch. Even bitinstant can be a huge hassle (the nearest bitinstant bank is over 30 miles away for me). This is a needed service.

You don't have a 7-11 or CVS nearby?

Sub! This could be very nice if executed in a user friendly way and cost effective way!

Easy payment methods and flexible options.

How easy will this be for people in Europe? Most similar ideas I've seen so far are usually pretty US-centred.

+1 to this

No and no.

Yes get them in a shop and get people to buy them, and then maybe loads of place would sell them ;D

do want

Any answer to this?

Question: How is this better than a card with an actual private key on it? Are they private keys but just empty until activated after which your system will automatically send them bitcoins? And if so, does that mean people can't spend the bitcoins on this card until after it's cleared in the blockchain? And if not so, what is the difference between this and any other non-Bitcoin stored value card?

Sorry for the question-wall.

Because you can't.  :)

You can't you buy Bitcoins using reversible methods such as credit card without markup so large as to make it a novelty.  BitBills is effectively defunct and Causicius coins while a very attractive product (I own some myself) is targeting a different market (and at a high premium).

However the reality is that this product isn't really targeting you, me, or any established Bitcoin users.  The goal is to provide a cost effective user friendly way for everyday consumer to purchase Bitcoins.  Your mother or non-techy friend isn't going to WU money to some guy on a forum (no matter how many +1 he has), or send a bankwire and Photo ID to some exchange in Japan.  They simply aren't, that is the reality.  So if we want to broaden the base of bitcoin users the distribution channels will need to become more mainstream. 


Getting the product into the stores is the goal but the reality is the local Walmart does what the regional WalMart office does and they aren't going to do any POS purchases that aren't already integrated into their national backbone and that means the proven ability and financial commitment to move tens of millions of units per year.  Even what we would consider a smashing success of say hundreds of thousands of units per year would get you laughed out of the meeting.  

The situation is the same for most convenience store and grocery store chains.  Even the smaller independent stores partner with networks like BlackHawk network to handle their product distribution and restocking.  If BlackHawk network doesn't support it they aren't either.  

I am not saying it is an impossible goal but there are significant logistical hurdles.   Showing investors that Bitcoins CAN be sold in volume to a mainstream audience with manageable amounts of fraud is critical to get the seven figure funding it will take to land the product on a single hook on the bottom rung of a shelf in a major chain. 


It is something we have considered.  It would allow us to increase the duty cycle on these expensive digital printers.  When not running batches of new cards they could be processing custom "pay cards".  The trick is getting it automated to the point that the price point makes sense.  We would want to shoot for <$1 per custom card (full custom color front, QR code and address info on the back based on a template in resin black).  An alternative would be to include a free "pay card" with any order.  I don't really like the idea of a "bank card" because using private keys known by others for long term use is contrary to good security principles.   Granted we will know the private keys on Bitcoin prepaid cards but the intent is for them to be used temporarily.  I believe a semi-permanent bank card pushes that too far.


Magic.  No seriously all the details aren't going to be revealed at this point but restricted mail delivery, and remote activation will allow us to actively fight fraud instead of rolling over and letting the chargeback mount.  One of our investors has active role in debt collection industry and we intend to aggressive fight theft (often called "friendly fraud") which simply isn't possible in online delivery.  A charge-back even if successful doesn't eliminate the debt created by the underlying transaction and we intend to seek maximum damages via 3rd party debt collection, legal judgement, and derogatory credit reporting.  


It will be US-centered at least initially.  Our deliveries will be limited to the United States.  We hope after launching to locate partners in other countries willing to act as regional distributors.

The private key will be on the card however funds will not be loaded until activation.  It is very similar to any other stored value card with one important legal difference.  Once activated use of the card no longer requires communication with the originator.  If is our argument to FinCEN that this key element excludes the card from FinCEN's definition of stored value products.  Well technically the term is now "prepaid access" but the same concept applies.  We are waiting for an administrative ruling from FinCEN before launching as their determination materially affects the manner in which we can distribute this product.

From a consumer perspective we hope this product is indeed very familiar to users of "normal" giftcards.  The goal is to provide a Bitcoin distribution platform which is "normal".  A method that allows users to purchase Bitcoins or give Bitcoins as gifts in a manner which the consumer is already comfortable with. 

Scannable QR code or on a mag stripe / swipe ?

[Update ... oops missed this.


So if not mag stripe, ... where's the private key?  QR code?]

I really like your design!



Already handled  ;D

Look out for our announcement in about 2 weeks and you will see how.


FinCEN is not legally required to make an administrative ruling.

-Edited by request of source-

-Charlie

One set of rules for you and another for everyone else eh?

Keep showing that professionalism you love to boast about.


You know I was just going to let it go but you just seem intent at keeping this going.  We have already indicated we aren't an MSB.  If FinCEN rules unfavorably we will register.  The cost to register is negligible.  You wear your MSB number like is some kind of great seal of approval making you one of the elite financial institutions in the world.  The reality is it requires filing paperwork and dealing with bureaucratic processes nothing more.  Even the KYC training doesn't have to be completed before being registered it just needs to be completed within six months.

I would also point out your MSB is a tin-badge.  You are an unlawful money transmitter.  At a minimum you have no license to acts as a money transmitter in the state of Virginia but you have transmitted funds (not bitcoins but US currency) on multiple occasions.  How about you get your own house in order and stop "helping" all your competitors?

The only lawful money transmitters in the state of Virginia
http://www.scc.virginia.gov/bfi/reg_inst/trans.pdf

Hahah you need to learn to relax!

You didn't follow the rules in my thread....in fact you went as far as starting your own thread with the same title as mine (so much for rules)

As I mentioned in my last thread:

Bitinstant, LLC (and her parent company) is licensed by the New York State Superintendent of Banks pursuant to article 9-A of the Banking Law.
Bitinstant, LLC (and her parent company) is registered with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCen) as a Money Service Business (MSB).
and is also a proud member of the Financial Service Centers of America (FiSCA).

Additionally, our parent company is licensed in 10+ states.

Bitinstant is not an MTB at this time, as I mentioned earlier, I offered to share more info with you if I'm contacted (Which you didn't do)

Yes, we are fully legal and our bases are covered. We are owned by a larger financial institution (which will be made public soon) whose licensing falls on us.

-Charlie


I don't want to get into a troll fest here, but did I deserve that from you?

What have I done to you to make myself feel special ? Who is my 'sugar daddy' that I'm sucking off of?

Let me make it absolutely clear:
Given your track record and attitude towards competitors, we neither desire nor need any "assistance" from you. 

Edited: to remove useless hostility.

TangibleCryptography,

My apologies for probably being a bit too angsty in this thread. I didn't mean to troll or hijack the thread in any way. Haven't had my coffee yet.

Obviously these cards are super cool and I look forward to buying one. OP- Feel free to contact me in private if you'd like to discuss any aspect of it.

Cheers,

Charlie

The paytunia cards are coming soon..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64980.msg762894#msg762894 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64980.msg762894#msg762894)

I am in the presence of businessmen