Bitcoin Forum

Hi Guys,

I'm Alberto Armandi, developer of Bitdaytrade, we're a small team composed by a few guys and look forward to estabilish a presence in the Bitcoin world. This application is heavily inspired by Bitcoinica and it even shares the same framework, twitter bootstrap. Those are technical details not very important at this stage. The platform will be heavily redesigned by a professional designer studio eventually in the future. Bitdaytrade allows you to trade Gold contracts at the moment, 1 Gold contract is for 1 Troy of the precious metal, which is values around 1580-1620 USD. The minimum trading lot is 0.01 contracts, which are equivalent to about 16 USD. You have available different choices for leveraging, from 2.5x to 50x as well as no leverage option. For funding your account we only accept Bitcoin at the moment and you can start trading with a small amount.
The bid/ask spread is set to take into account our fees and the price slippage, Gold market is very liquid and price can change abruptly in no time.
There are no other fees. All trades are mirrored in the real Gold market via our forex partner API.

Here is the url of our site  https://bitdaytrade.com (https://bitdaytrade.com). We would love to hear your impressions!

Cheers
Bitdaytrade Team

Bitcoinica may have forever spoiled Bootstrap.  Also, there's some information missing from your website about how you secure your databases.  ;)

Hello bitdaytrade,

You operate out of Hong Kong, am I correct?
Withdrawals and Deposits in Bitcoins only, right?

Is your market viewable without registering?

Right, we do use bcrypt for password storage. It's the safest option on the market at the moment.

Correct, operations are virtually conducted from Hong Kong.  Right, Bitcoin deposits and withdrawals. only.

What do you mean by "market viewable without registering" ?

Added to the FAQ as well.

Some type of Market Overview at your exchange. Basic info like volume, High, Lows, last, inside quote, etc.

I will make that available soon. Thanks for your feedback.

Sounds cool.

But like I see the spread is currently $1.  How many contracts are available at the best bid/ask?  Seems like you have a good start etc. but there is still some work to do.  Will def. keep the website bookmarked though and follow this thread.

I would recommend a chart DOM if you could implement that.  

The bid/ask spread is a little higher than what we get from our forex provider, to make us some money and protect us against slippage and violent  price fluctuations. We will look into chart DOM in the future, what other features would you add to the site ?
thanks for your feedback!

So traders using your exchange are trading against the bitdaytrade.com?

Traders  on bitdaytrade are trading so against the worldwide Gold market at the moment.

Well, the B/A spread seems ok for this application to be honest.  I think the usual spread on the futures contracts is probably 1-5 ticks depending on the time.  Obviously this application doesn't have a 'x'ms latency, so..

But what I was wondering is if you purchase like .5 of a contract, and lets say that the ask is 1000 for example.  How many contracts (or .01 contracts) are available at the ask of 1000?  What I am getting at is how do we know what the slippage will be w/o having that information?

Also, I think it would be nice if you added time/sales window.  That way there can be no bullshit about your limit order not entirely being filled etc.  I think these 2 things are necessities for anyone looking to come in with a large amount of coin.

________

I have one other question though.  Like bitcoinica, when the price of bitcoin goes up or down, so does your account value.  When we transfer in bitcoins to you, do you automatically convert them to USD to avoid the problems with carrying gold contracts with BTC that usually ranges more than the derivative (gold) we are trying to trade?  Hopefully that makes sense.

Thanks

Can you go into a little more detail about your trading platform? Did you write the code in-house, open source, etc.?

Do you live in Italy or are you traveling?

We structured our minimal lot of 0.01 contracts for Gold as per our Forex API requirements. We can fractionate one full contract that way and offer a reasonably small minimum trading volume. Slippage is not an informations we intend to make public. Can you elaborate more on the Time/sale window ? Thanks for your great feedbacks so far.

I do live in Italy at the moment but i travel often to Hong Kong and China for business.

[/quote]

We structured our minimal lot of 0.01 contracts for Gold as per our Forex API requirements. We can fractionate one full contract that way and offer a reasonably small minimum trading volume. Slippage is not an informations we intend to make public. Can you elaborate more on the Time/sale window ? Thanks for your great feedbacks so far.

[/quote]

A suggestion, most people will probably be only trading fractional contracts.  But what if someone comes to your application to trade multiple contracts?  Do you believe that someone will just accept the slippage will be "hidden?"  Would you trade in a system like that? 

Well, maybe if it was just playing around with a coin or two, yes (FX comes to mind, but this is mildly different, IMO).   I think you should guarantee volume on the bid/ask like bitcoinica (even if it is just .25 contract or something), that is one of the best things ZT came up with, IMO.

Also, if you could please answer my question about the BTC - USD conversion and how our money is stored once it reaches your website in BTC or USD?  In relation to our margin balances that is a big deal.

Time and sales window is just a small pop-up window that displays all trades in real time with volume.  I ask this because there will be times that someone has a limit order out, hits the number, but doesn't get filled because he is too far back in the book or something before the bid jumps.  Just take a look at google for "time and sales window".. I am sure you know what it is after looking at it.

I really think though, if you are looking for larger players in your book, that you should implement a real time DOM application with time and sales.  Especially if these same people have the bankroll to trade some other futures company in the USA etc.  I guess your application sends some order straight through to the exchange of your choosing, so that is where there is some gray area, at least for me...?

By the way, how are the orders routed from your platform to xyz exchange?  What other software / brokers / platform are you using other than this proprietary one you have created - if you don't mind relaying that information.  Are you using CME?

Thanks

We structured our minimal lot of 0.01 contracts for Gold as per our Forex API requirements. We can fractionate one full contract that way and offer a reasonably small minimum trading volume. Slippage is not an informations we intend to make public. Can you elaborate more on the Time/sale window ? Thanks for your great feedbacks so far.

[/quote]

A suggestion, most people will probably be only trading fractional contracts.  But what if someone comes to your application to trade multiple contracts?  Do you believe that someone will just accept the slippage will be "hidden?"  Would you trade in a system like that?  

Well, maybe if it was just playing around with a coin or two, yes (FX comes to mind, but this is mildly different, IMO).   I think you should guarantee volume on the bid/ask like bitcoinica (even if it is just .25 contract or something), that is one of the best things ZT came up with, IMO.

Also, if you could please answer my question about the BTC - USD conversion and how our money is stored once it reaches your website in BTC or USD?  In relation to our margin balances that is a big deal.

Time and sales window is just a small pop-up window that displays all trades in real time with volume.  I ask this because there will be times that someone has a limit order out, hits the number, but doesn't get filled because he is too far back in the book or something before the bid jumps.  Just take a look at google for "time and sales window".. I am sure you know what it is after looking at it.

I really think though, if you are looking for larger players in your book, that you should implement a real time DOM application with time and sales.  Especially if these same people have the bankroll to trade some other futures company in the USA etc.  I guess your application sends some order straight through to the exchange of your choosing, so that is where there is some gray area, at least for me...?

By the way, how are the orders routed from your platform to xyz exchange?  What other software / brokers / platform are you using other than this proprietary one you have created - if you don't mind relaying that information.  Are you using CME?

Thanks

[/quote]

Right, probably most people will be trading on fractional contracts.  We will definitely evolve the interface to something like you describe in the near future. This is just a start, i'll make sure to google "Time and Sales window" and get an exact grasp of how to use it best in our project.
Our applications routes orders to a forex aggregator which offers also derivatives and futures contracts and has a good API available.
Also to respond to some other ealier question, our technology has been developed in-house and it took a couple of months to get here.

Thanks for all your feedbacks, much appreciated.

Sounds good.  I understand you are just brand new basically, but I think you have a really good start.  I have been waiting for something like this because of the margin requirements currently at the CME.  Just someway to trade while I am at school.

Just think like trading FX on an ECN compared to FX with like, well anyone that doesn't run an ECN.  Have you traded FX on Interactive Brokers, for example, or any other ECN?  Just saying.

I think you would gain a lot of credibility to your project/platform if when you placed a limit order, you could simultaneously see this on the DOM.  That way we know what is going on with the orders and you aren't playing games in the background.  Time and Sales window would just basically confirm these things.

If that doesn't make sense, please say so.  


*** ALSO ****

How are the btc kept once we send them to your website?  Are they staying in BTC or being converted to USD?  If BTC price goes down big time that is going to cause huge problems with margin calls if they are not being immediately converted to USD.  Especially because we are using one derivative to trade another derivative

We really appreciate all your feedbacks. We have had experiences trading currencies with various Forex providers and ECN platforms too, mostly with Gold and Oil futures.  What you propose does make a lot of sense, and it will be in the works soon. As per the bitcoins, they get transferred to mtgox as soon as they are received and converted to USD. When a withdrawal is requested, bitcoins are bought and sent via the Mtgox API. Please note that withdrawals are not automatic, nor istant.

Bravo on a game changer 50x1 leverage trading gold future  :o

I am very interested in the possibility of trading traditional markets via BTC, but here’s my concern:

What if Bitcoin rallies a lot and increases in value by say, ten times in a few weeks? Since you sell the Bitcoins, you are essentially short, if I understand correctly, and would have to purchase them much more expensively if I wanted to withdraw my Bitcoins.

Do you have a way to hedge that? If yes, how?

We have methods in place to watch for those circumstances and take appropriate action, i.e. Buy Bitcoin if price suddenly spikes up and use USD reserves to back up gold trading. We are also planning to add Bitcoin as a traded commodity itself shortly, just like Bitcoinica.

Added basic charting functionality https://bitdaytrade.com/charts (https://bitdaytrade.com/charts)

Please see the message,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88902.msg979814#msg979814
Regarding my current position.
//DeaDTerra

BitDayTrade IPO announcement has been released :)
Have a look at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88902.0
//DeaDterra

Thanks a million to DeadTerra for all the support provided!

No problems, I am always up for helping Bitcoin companies off the ground :)
//DeaDTerra

Congratulations on being the first to launch this service, I've been waiting for this day. It seems a little "too good to be true" which, in combination with the bitcoinica fiasco, leaves me skeptical.

I'd like to know where you hedge the gold positions, to have more confidence bitdaytrade isn't a bucket shop (with bitcoinica it was known they hedged at MtGox).

Also, why no MtGox codes for deposits? You claim to sell the BTC on mtgox anyway..


This seems like a disaster waiting to happen. If you buy bitcoin when price suddenly spikes, you'll have losses (bucket shop betting against the customers).

I like that I can stay long in BTC and open a gold position. Decreasing my gold position if btc falls, so that i take losses if its a losing position, is the right way to do it. Good job with that.

But if you're hedging/scaling the gold position then there should be no need to sell the deposited BTC (and again, you can't sell it without betting against the customer).


I deposited a few BTC, but I would've been able to short gold earlier if I didn't have to wait for the confirmations. I missed the big move down.. going to wait for a bounce up now.

Thanks a lot, more commodities, and bitcoin itself will be coming soon!  We will eventually integrate the missing  mtgox Bitcoin code deposit feature.
We do have a pretty large account at instaforex and we hedge all trades there. Don't worry for now about our methods to protecting from price spikes, they are tested throughly as they are an important part of the CFD trading system itself. Thanks for your smart feedbacks! hope you are satisfied with our platform, and for any problem refer to the support email on the site info@bitdaytrade.com. Thanks again!

I didn't receive confirmation e-mail after signup (about 3 minutes). Waiting longer...

Check your spam folder, from a quick check it looks like there are no issues with your signup. Please post update here

I have no spam folder. I even went to the webmail interface of the email provider and looked around there and searched. No email from "*bitdaytrade*".

I received your test-email.

Thanks for manually confirming my account.

I have since changed the email address to another one. Nothing received there as of now (didn't expect a mail to be sent, of course).

Hmm... very interesting... Im new to this type of trading so please forgive me.

I see that OP says .01 of a contract should cost around $16.  I deposited .1 BTC and set leverage option to 50:1.  This give me a Tradable Margin of USD 31.82080000

Why cant I buy .01 of a contract?

Also I noticed this

"You get charged or credited a carry interest for any position left open overnight. Long positions are charged the calculated amount. The amount is calculated based on your account exposure."

Could you elaborate on what this means for those of us who are new?

hi,

i like your site and trying now with 0.5btc.

PUTS do work very well, but i cant open a LONG Position.
it shows (very shortly) in the "Your queued positions"-list but never gets to a position.

btw: if i have a short position and open a long one. will the short position stay or is it "eaten by" the long one.

regards
flower

We are looking into the problem right now and yes, you can open opposing positions and hedge your trades. Thank you very much for your feedback.

Cheers

my withdraw took 1 day to get processed. i guess they are doing it manually.

Reported bug should be fixed. Thank you for the head up. You should now be open a 0,01 contract position with 0,1 Bitcoin. If you leave an LONG open position overnight, the 3% carried interested is calculated over the total value of your position in USD and converted to Bitcoin, then charged to your account. If you have a LONG position for 0,01 contract at 1.570,30 it means you are charged 0,47109 for each night you keep the position open.
See calculation (1.570,30*0,01)*0,03) = 0,47109 USD

EDIT : Carried interest charge is not being enforced yet.

The bug has been fixed and we ensure you this will not happen again in the future, you have been credited 1 btc to cover your losses.  We do apologize for any additional inconvenience this might cause to you.

There was a serious bug in the transaction engine, it's not related to the gold price whatsoever. On a side note your withdrawal has been processed.  

Was about to throw some coins in when I saw this. What is the situation exactly?  ???

And you incurred a profit from your positions, am I correct? Seems shady if you just lost your gains from your positions due to this 'bug'.

Mine too (not that they were more than a cent or two).  However, I re opened the same very small short position this morning, and liquidated for profit this afternoon.

I am still experiencing issues trying to go long.  It seems like I am given the long position for a fraction of a second... then the position is automatically closed... and I suffer loss due to the spread.

We are not going to "randomly" mess with your positions, we do strongly apologize for the issue. Any hint at what price and volume did your open your short to? we might be able to recover it

Please send your email address via PM or email us a note so we can investigate your account. Thank you.

email sent.

This seems to be a common issue, did it for me as well. I sincerely hope this doesn't turn out to be the next big scam in the BTC community :(

All issues solved now, due to a technical glitch we had an unusable order book and had to reset it. Trade with confidence, positions won't be reverted any more. We do apologize for the problems caused.

I had PM and email contact with bitdaytrade to fix the issue I was having.  I can confirm that the issue I was having with going long is now fixed.  I was also credited 1 BTC, while my losses were less than .01 BTC.

Thanks

Thank you for your cooperation on fixing this bug.

Cool site! seems like it's still a bit buggy, though.

So, I have an open position - I'm long for 0.06.  I have a limit sell for 0.01, but I cannot make another limit sell for 0.05, telling me to "reduce contract size or add more funds".  

My position has me up ~$0.90.  I should definitely be able to close a profitable position.  

My guess is that you are calculating the cost of opening a position without taking into account the fact that short and long positions cancel each other out.  Whenever you have an open position, you should be able to close that position regardless of the amount of funds in the account.  If there are not enough funds in the account to close the position, you should have already force liquidated them.

Hi, thank you, the issue is being investigated as we speak.

UPDATE : We currently do allow customers to hedge their positions, hence, our platform will not behave the way you describe. Short and long positions will not cancel each other. Regardless of this,the issue you described, not being able to close a profitable position, couldn't not be simulated.

We apologizes for the issue and offer you to recover the short position for 1 Contract @ 1590 USD. Thank  you

Added Instant deposit via Mtgox bitcoin coupon codes. You can now catch trading opportunities even faster. Thank you!

Not just your very important positions have been wiped out, but everyones... by a bug in the engine that screwed up the positions.

Maybe it's best to consider this beta software and just accept the fact there may still be bugs.

I think they should plaster "BETA" over the site, then goat wouldn't have expectations of everything working cleanly in the first place.

It would have been pointless to backup flawed data, as said, it was necessary to delete all positions. We have a backup of every single byte in place. The site is still in beta and that will be made clear thru logo and branding. Apologizes again for the past issues.

You got a point indeed. They might not yet have backup in place? If that's the case... one more reason to plaster "BETA" somewhere on the page and explain to not use huge sums of money just yet.

How did the data get flawed? Did you not have older backups with unflawed data?

I don't see "beta" anywhere in the log or on the front page.

Scammer tag ? We are not taking anyone's money and you are free to leave the site if you don't feel safe with it. We have offered you to recover your position. Thank you very much for your time so far.

We're adding the beta disclosure to the site now. The positions table was corrupted entirely because of wrong volume figures, impossible to recover, hence we took decision to reset. This won't happen again as we have fixed a bug that was previously unknow.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88803.msg997770#msg997770

Any hint to what your position was actually ?

Because as said, the data was corrupted and not in a shape to be backed up. We offer you 1 additional bitcoin (we already credited the same amount right after the incident) to recoup your loss. Again, we are aware that you had a short position in place, price and volume were corrupted. Thank you.

inb4 we got hacked all your coins are gone.

Stay away from this, got my test BTC back though, but only after obviously non-automated transaction. (delay)

Oh my, Non-automated transactions are here as a measure of protection.  Care to argument why people should stay away from our business ?

nope.

good luck though, since anybody who doesn't get it at this point deserves it.  :D

Your allusions are not helping, can you try to be clear ? expose your thoughts one by one. Security wise we are doing our best to keep hackers out. You can stress out our security by yourself, run some penetration testing on our box,i name for you some must have tools : nmap, nessus, satan; then consult online exploit archives or purchase a 0day from the black market, it's not that hard to start off. Only, you won't go very far because we are in the field since at least a decade and we know what we do. What would you like to see deployed for your peace of mind? an insurance policy would work out good ?

EDIT : if by any chance you find my tones aggressive, please just assume i'm a rude english speaker. on re-reading my answer it sounds a bit harsh, didn't mean to sound that way.

Thanks for the explanation.

Let's hope your code is in order now. "Resetting" is really not a good option should another unknown bug pop up.

We agree it was an ugly intervention but it was almost unavoidable. This won't/can't happen anymore, we took countermeasures in order to avoid it happening again.

We have methods in place to avoid corruptions of data in case of bogus inputs from the real-time order queue now (that's what happened); furthermore we do not expect that the order queue will start malfunctioning again.
It has been thoroughly inspected to make sure it is working flawlessly; so definitely this issue won't be ever seen again.

Thank you

Thanks for fixing. I will keep using the service (which is an awesome idea, btw) with only a little money until I've grown more confident and then use it with more... I'm also looking forward to you adding USD/BTC, as you said you had planned?

May I suggest to only do that after some more in-the-wild testing? The influx of users and money might be huge, considering you might be advertised as a "bitcoinica alternative".

Thank you for using our platform. We completely agree with you, the code for expanding to USD/BTC is ready but we want to have more confidence,stability wise, so it's postponed for now. Thank you for all your feedbacks.

I was looking to try to deposit some coin and there is an error when clicking on the "deposit" link.

Thanks.

We're not able to emulate the issue, are you still experiencing it ?
Please contact us via email for this kind of issues, it's easier for us to stay updated.

Thank you
Bitdaytrade

Yes, sent an E-Mail though.  Thx

k

LOL
sounds like a big fail to display bitcoin-rpc-password :D

No worries, our site doesn't even rely on bitcoin-rpc. This error message is caused by a debug instruction that we accidentally enabled. We apologize for the issue, you should be able to deposit now.

We're adding, very soon, ability to trade bitcoin itself on margin. and maybe in the near future, GLBSE symbols. stay tuned.

is there a way to login with a user name? I just got a password reset and I never reset the password, think it would be better security...

Send us an email with details of your account so we can investigate the issue. Thank you

username would be a email address, but instead give a option to have a user name instead of using a email address...

If they offer leverage for btc, who will be able to resist hopping on board? Even though its a slow-motion trainwreck, plain as day.

How many mistakes, whether beta or not? First a corrupted positions table (bitdaytrade: the database should be configured append-only), then plaintext debug messages revealing internal passwords. Better get professional real fast, before you lose huge sums of profit to a "bug in the hedging bot" like bitcoinica did.

How will bitdaytrade handle the net position getting too lopsided? After a fiasco where bitcoinica couldn't close people's shorts because they got too net long and there were no USD funds available for their hedging bot, they had limits indicated by asterisks on the buy or sell button (so positions were only opened on a first come first serve basis).

I look forward to bitdaytrade becoming a solid, stable platform. Professionalism in bitcoin services increases confidence overall.

To spell it out for you:

Incompetence is either acted as such to conceal a scam or real in which case your money isn't safe either. Anyway I'm jumping off at the first sign of trouble which probably is too early but at least not too late...
nuff said.

You decide to do whatever you like with your funds, but don't spread useless FUD, there's already enough.

Do you use 2-factor auth on your mtgox account? Is your mtgox API key hardcoded on in your production code? (It should be stored in memory so it is not accessible after a system reboot). How about your instaforex account API key?



Obviously your system was not and is not thoroughly tested. If it was then, you would not have had wrong volume figures.


Are you using that new agile motto for success? Fail quickly and fail often.

I want to try it  ;)

The only one failing here, is yourself. We didn't have any more data corruption ever since. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Please leave us alone.Thank you.

PM`ed  ;)

I would also recommend browser authentication. Browser identification: An identification token from your browser is registered with bitdaytrade to prevent unauthorized browsers from using your account. This method is used by some banks to help secure your account. I have never had any accounts compromised and can honestly say that this was the first time for me. I'm just suggesting that you guys will be the next target for bitcoin hiest. Please take every precaution for this to never happen.

Warning -- right now seriously broken!

http://s1.directupload.net/images/120719/neu2ixq2.png

• on returing, I noticed that all my postitions had been closed, without a close price (and without obvious reason)
• when opening a 2 contract position, the base price is NaN
• the Profit is incredible, and the position can ba closed, resulting in a huge positiv bitcoin balance

Now all what is required would be the ability to withdraw those bitcoins, and you'd made my day!!

;)



PS: we know it is beta -- take it with irony, bugs sometimes produce hilarious effects

Not even surprised. Expect anything from this site.

They claim to hedge trades on instaforex, but that's a lie since instaforex doesn't provide an API for their customers. Its a crude bucket shop.

We apologizes, it's a temporary malfunctioning due to intervention on the server for adding bitcoin margin trading functionality ( now in private testing ).  This issue has affected the site for about 30 minutes today. and was promptly fixed.  Please email us about how you would like us to restore your positions and you will be also getting an invite for testing bitcoin margin trading, as we recognize you're a prominent user of the site ;)

Take it lightly, as said, we're in beta and some issues are still being worked out, moreover we're adding bitcoin margin trading to the offer, with realtime hedging on mtgox. As per Instaforex, they do provide an API, and it's used for gold quotes, for actual hedging we use a custom tool developed to work with our preferred trading platform.

great idea, we'll look into that.

Just to confirm: All positions where corrected and the history cleaned and contains only the real movements,
so everything looks leveled again. Bitdaytrade support responded early this morning and confrimed the withdrawal
of the real currency balance, which I had requested due to security concerns.

Up to now, the support has always been promply and friendly, and any problems discovered while testing were fixed ASAP.

Since the skin redesign of the site/frontpage, there is a somewhat annoying behaviour:

The site now has a timeout and logs you out automatically. Generally speaking this is good security practice, but especially in case of a daytrading platform, it is clearly counterproductive. Since you typically want to leave that open and step by from time to time, while working on other stuff.

Thus I'd request a feature, where you can set your own account timeout in the settings.

The timestamp displayed in the history is somewhat confusing. I didn't find any indication which timezone you're applying, but from the values displayed I take it's UTC - 2

Thus my request

• let the user set her own time zone
• -- or -- display timestamps in UTC
• -- or -- at least add an indication of the timezone

want to report another small glitch or shortcoming

The charts section: when you enter that page, the drop-down box shows "all time" selected. But the charts arctually display the "last day".

To verify this: select "last day" -> nothing changes. select "all time" -> voila. From that point on, drop-down and state are in sync.


Further, somewhat related to the timestamp issue reported above: can you please add a more meaningful display on the horizontal (time) axis? You should format the numbers in a way to make clear how to read them (e.g. "12:00" instead of just "12"). Moreover, you should indicate the unit of measurment, especially on the "all time" display. And, of course, the time display should'nt wrap to negative numbers left of the zero point.



Please take that with a grain of salt. The Charts, as they stand now, are a nice-to have ("oh, they have a charts section too"). They're an eye catcher but aren't very useful. It is nice to have BTC and gold rate right above one another though. But the rates display, especially on last day, isn't accurate enough to judge any movement or to get the highs and lows precisely.

Hello Bitdaytrade team,

would you mind clarifying the following details regarding the "finnancial mechanics" of your site?

What is the currency account actually?
When I just deposit some BTC into my Bitdaytrade account, without opening any trading position -- what happens then actually?

• are these BTC just sitting in some wallet on your site?
• or are you selling them for USD right away and hold a constant USD balance somewhere?

How are interest rates actually handled?
On your frontpage, you display some interest rates for holding open long positions.

• What does "weekly" mean precisely?
  
  • at what point in time do you charge them
  • how do you treat positions open only for a fraction of a week
• are the displayed interest rates established dynamically? How precise is the actual calculation? Right now, you display "3%" for an open gold long position worth $10000. But 300 / 7 = 42.857142857, and not "42.23" as displayed. Thus, what rate are you actually using?
• Are the actual interest payments displayed anywhere within my account? (e.g. in the history?). I couldn't find any indication.

Bitcoins that you deposit remain in BTC form. Gold positions are denominated in USD but settled in BTC equivalent when liquidated. For example, if you buy a gold contract at $1600 and sell it at $1700, your profit is $100, and if at liquidation time a BTC is $8, you will have 12.5 BTC added to your balance.

The interest mechanism is still being worked on, I don't believe it is now actively charged. The idea is to have the interest deducted from your account on an hourly basis, so that the total per week is the displayed percentage.

For now the weekly values are hardcoded but this will eventually be replaced by a dynamic system that adjusts to demand.

There's currently a mistake in the displayed daily/hourly values due to usage of a calculation that is not applicable for this situation, it will be corrected.

There will likely be some form of summary of the interest payments.

Im having trouble withdrawing my tiny amount of coins...

I get a processing window popup... and nothing else.

thanks for your explanations.

So, to expand on that question and your explanation, where does the BTC/USD rate come into play?

My understanding is as follows: BTC deposit -> denomination in USD, based on the current rate  -> available margin.


Now, lets assume for example, if I open riskless positions in the gold market, i.e. open a long and a short in such a way, that they cancel out each others effect completely (both would need to have the same closing price). And lets assume further, that I use all the available margin for doing so. (opening such a position incurs 2 times the spread, so that is what I pay for that kind of insurance per week)

Given that construction, to what extend is my BTC position now hedged?
For example, if the BTC rate drops considerably, while I'm "in" such a riskless gold position?
Would I get a margin call? Or is the current margin based on the current value of my account, which -- as assumed -- should be completely anchored in the gold market now?

If you're still having this problem please contact info(at)bitdaytrade.com.

Right.

The ability to have opposing positions will soon be disabled, because there's not much point in it - what you would profit on one you would lose on the other. Opening a short position when you already have a long one will instead liquidate part of the long position.

You will be force-liquidated if your net value (account balance translated to USD + Profit/loss from current positions) drops below 1% (the current maintenance value for gold) of your position (position size multiplied by the current price of a single contract).

I opened a position yesterday. It's gone. Again?!?

Oh no!

please don't remove one of your distingushing features. We shouldn't look on the balance and gains solely, its also about risk.

There is quite a significant difference: if you close out a position, typically with a stop-loss order, the whole position is gone. To the contrary, when you have two oposing positions, one created by a stop loss, you're protected for the moment, but you are still free to decide which position to retain, when you come back.

Obviously, there wouldn't be a difference for someone sitting all the time in front of the trading app and whatching the rates move. Then you'd use stop losses only as a safety guard, to protect against catastrophic events.

Probably the key question here is: at which point exactly does the BTC / USD rate come into play? When exactly does "translated to USD" happen. Because the BTC rate can move. That's the point, it's about risk.

So, please, what model is implemented by Bitdaytrade?

Model-A: You use the BTC from the currency account to really buy into the gold market. From that point on, the value of the account and thus the margin is determined by the valuation of these positions in the gold market. The BTC rate can move anywhere, because its irrelevant at that point. The BTC are sold. When the gold position is closed, we buy BTC back. In case Bitdaytrade implemets this model, then it would be a real derivative: you'd allow your customers to swap the cash flows and risks of the two markets.

Model-B: The customer deposits BTC, and that is where the value and the risk stays. The customer can than bet on the gold rate, but the value of the account (and the margin) is still tied to the BTC value. When the BTC/USD rate drops, the customer gets a margin call. This behaviour would prove that in this case: either (a) no real trade on the gold market happened, or (b) the bitdaytrade platfrom carries the risk of their speculative gold positions not matching the value of the BTC positions.


You see, this question is important. Especially for the customer judging the counterparty risk of trusting his money to your platform.

Currently there is no ability to do a stop-loss order, so a feature that is only relevant to stop-loss orders is moot for now. For manually closing positions, you can liquidate part of a position, you don't have to liquidate it entirely.

I thought it was clear from my description that it's model B. Your conclusion doesn't follow. When you buy a gold contract on BDT, BDT buys a gold contract on another market with its USD reserves; when you liquidate it, BDT liquidates it making a USD profit/loss. You will also have a profit/loss, added to your BTC balance based on the BTCUSD rate at the time, and BDT will buy/sell this amount of bitcoins on the BTC market to maintain its BTC position.

This is all of course how it should happen in theory, I don't know if it's implemented yet. I'd like to remind that I'm not an official spokesperson for the Bitdaytrade platform itself, I just share what I know based on my discussions with Alberto.

Over night? What timezone?

Can you give us a heads-up before you enforce this? I'm trading on a crazy 50:1 leverage and this would eat up my funds over night ;/

I have some more questions:

@meni: are you helping bitdaytrade in any way? It sounds like you know more than can be inferred from public knowledge.

Can someone help me out with some calculation? I want to go long gold. Let's say I want to buy 1 contract. Now let's assume 1530 is the bottom and if it drops below that I want to accept liquidataion. With a 50:1 leverage, how many bitcoins do I have to put into the currency account if I buy the contract at, say, 1590?

Yes, I'm consulting for Alberto so I have some knowledge about the current and future way things are handled (some of which I've put him up to), but the decisions and implementation are always Alberto's.

If you buy a contract at 1590 then when it reaches 1530 you are at $60 loss. The current maintenance for gold is 1% so to be force-liquidated at that point you need your net value to be 1%*1530=$15.3, which means that your balance should be $60+$15.3 = $75.3. If 1BTC = $8.5 this means your deposit should be 8.86 BTC.

Note that the deciding BTC rate is at the time of liquidation, not when opening the position. And this is all assuming everything works properly, which still needs to be tested.

This increases my trust in bitdaytrade.

[/quote]

Thanks for the calculation and heads-up.

now one question remains to Alberto: when will interest started to be charged? Being able to borrow at 0% is too good to be true (except if you're a bank, then it's normal I guess).

Another screwup:

https://i.imgur.com/idcGq.png

yesterday I had 5 long position of 0.1 contracts each at around 1588 to 1602 and 2 shorts of 0.05 contracts each, one at about 1569 and one somewhere in the 1580s.

all positions are gone and as you can see in the screenshot, my currency account (which had BTC 10.5x before the screwup) is insanely negative.

EDIT: damnit, now we're having a nice rally :(

I've seen this happen before, it looks like the positions were liquidated at a price of 0, which causes a huge loss bringing your balance to the negative. Alberto was supposed to fix this, I'll check with him soon for updates.

Thanks.

Does Alberto not frequent this thread any more? I'm a bit taken back by the lack of official communication.

I hope he can fix the issue and minimize screwups like this... I know it's beta and that's ok as long as he keeps repairing things. At least there should be communication, though.

I had suggested to Alberto to communicate more regularly and he said he would. I'll remind him of this if there's need.

I just changed my account email and enabled google auth and now my account is gone.

<>

I had 0.95 btc in there and 0.04 and 0.02 in buy positions.

EDIT: If the position liquidates that's fine . Still would like my maintenance balance though ..

EDIT: Created another account and then added google auth. It did the same thing to that account also. Seems that the site looses contact with the session data when google auth is used ..

EDIT: my old email is enrolled in the google authenticator but when I tried to enroll the new email it said already created. So basically all you need to do is revert this account to the old email and I should be able to login fine.

EDIT: Thanks! .. That worked great! and my position survived!

Sorry for all troubles guys, i am very busy with a day job lately, i hope to be able to switch to bitcoin projects full-time soon.
The new version of the site which will allow bitcoin margin trading is ready and i plan to deploy it for all customers,except for bitcoin trading, until we complete a brief preliminary testing phase. All bugs that presented during these days are probably related to some changes in the code that reflected on the production machine. The new version, which will be deployed tomorrow, should have most issues fixed and offer some stability.
Interest charging started 7 days ago, and you will find an history of the interest charged on the new version of the site.
Apologizes for all inconveniences and thank you for your invaluable feedback.

Alberto

That's awesome news!


I can only see closed positions and withdrawals in the history currently. Neither did I notice any interest being charged. Well, maybe I'll see when I can use the site again, which I currently can't because due to a bug everything is screwed up (as described above) :/. I PMed you about this, Alberto.

I have negative balances in my account too.  I traded for a couple days at the beginning of july to try you guys out.  Then I withdrew all funds, and didn't check balance after.  When I checked again today, my currency account USD and BTC balance is negative.

Why is this? Did you send more BTC than was in my account, or is this just an internal accounting error?

account is chris [at] coinlab [dot] com

I also noticed this error. Just close the "pending" items, just leave already done.

In my case the positions I had were erroneously liquidated at a rate of "0.00 USD/contract". Probably some <null> slipped in from the gold feed.

EDIT: I really wish Alberto would take care of this, it's been roughly a week now with no word from him ;(. This is not how a successful site is run.

Alberto is still busy with his family restaurant due to the holiday season. He is giving me occasional updates and also said he'll be posting on the forum soon. As I understand he has fixed the 0 liquidation issue and some others. I'll try to do some testing but I'm fairly busy myself.

Just for the record: There seems to be a security problem, maybe my account got compromised. Nothing for sure yet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97527.0

I think this happened (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TlPo0yCSa4).

NO! As I said, try to cancel the "pending positions" and leave only "executed​​". (best one). Just for that would make a profit, you need to "liquidate the position of" not "stop" or "limit order". Probably, the error on the exchange.

"Alberto" has left his other issue high and dry without any dividends for months https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83784.0

Dont say you havent been warned.

I don't own or manage that asset. Currently the site is in the process of being closed and deal with investors renegotiated. I've already talked with DeadTerra about the issue. What you are bringing up is highly unrelated to anything discussed here. If you wish to have further clarifications please do contact me privately. Thank you.

I believe most issues reported in this thread have been fixed at the moment of writing.
Regarding those customers who still have a negative balance, please send and email to info@bitdaytrade.com stating your registered email and your problem, we will realign negative balances. No account was compromised as it turned out that the reported unauthorized withdrawals were in fact spurious data related to a bug in the history panel.

We're ready to open the bitcoin margin trading featureto trusted beta testers .

If you are interested please send us an email with a link to your forum profile.

The site new version will be unrolled gradually to all users after a brief testing phase.

Is 2 factor auth implemented ?

Yes it is. Powered by Google authenticator.

Thank you

is it possible the XAU/USD data feed is stuck? it says 1604/1606 while my other sources tell me 1614.

Dear support,

I have (also) bought XAU/USD contracts well below the current spot price; I should have a profitable position right now
However, the position is still at a loss; because like molecular also noticed, the XAU/USD is still at the old price
Is it safe to liquidate my position without any loss to get out? Or better, can I take profit, which should be at current price level.?
Thank you

let me quote cypherdoc from another thread:


Don't get me wrong, I'm not pissed (although slightly annoyed) at the lack of timely answers. I'm just pointing out the obvious area where bitdaytrade is currently less than optimally managed.

I have liquidated my position with a loss. Feels very unjustified. But it is a test trade system. Maybe I come back when it is stable. :-(

Do not get me wrong. But this is serious! Your site is doomed to success .. Please check carefully the code and leave the hand-withdrawal (yet). Also, please pay more attention, as mentioned above.

Can you explain the procedure ??
I'm used to just activate it, scan a QR code, and then nothing else to do. Doesn't seems to work as simply in this case.

Thanks

Send as un email with details of your position. today i have had internet connection troubles and have been able to restart the trading engine only by 14:00 local time (GMT+1 - Italy). This was due because the gold market stops on the weekend and i have to manually restart it on monday. I'll setup a backup solution to avoid this happening again in the future. apologizes for the issue, we offer to adjust all positions unjustly closed to 0 profit/loss. It might have happened that i've missed some emails or messages, this is because i'm currently still busy with my day job, which involves hotel+restaurant management and here it is currently Summer and the hottest season for tourism. I'll be able to dedicate more time very soon. Please send again an email with your issue if you didn't receive a reply.

Thank you for your interest.

If you enabled double factor authentication on your account, the login procedure should now lead you to a page where you can scan a qr code or manually add your username (email address) to  the google authenticator database. Follow the instructions on the screen, if you are still having issue please email us. Thank you

Everything working now thanks to your fast communication. Thanks !

Hi,

Is anyone experience problems with the prices of the BTC and XAU contract at this moment?
The price of the XAU/USD is still at the value of yesterday 1604 / 1606 and the the price of the BTC/USD contract is not updating (value is stuck at 10.6380 / 11.0126)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1380448/XAUUSD.png

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1380448/BTCUSD.jpg

It's nice to hear you'll have more time for the project soon. The project is ambitious and I suspect there might be great demand... it really deserves more attention. Thanks in advance.

All is fine now. Suddenly all the contracts (XAU and BTC) are updating. Thanks for all the reactions on my question regarding this issue.

If I do the math over the weekly interest rates example of $10,000 worth of long BTC/USD position open I come to $14,285714286 daily.
10000 * 0.01 = $100
$100 / 7  = $14,285714286

In the https://bitdaytrade.com/interest a daily amount of $14.21 is calculated. 

This might be due to the fact we use a a slightly different formula, but we should ask confirmation to Meni Rosenfeld.

Actually MykelSilver is right. We used an incorrect formula previously but it looks like it was corrected only for gold and not for BTC. BTC/USD Hourly and Weekly interest rates should be changed to $10000 * 0.01 / 168 and 10000 * 0.01 / 7 respectively.

Hello bitdaytrade my deposit amount yet not credit to my account.

I have deposited through MTGOX Bitcoin Code of 0.30 bitcoin

Please update me my id is lrlowrate@gmail.com

Is there anything to share about the datasource of the price BTC/USD contract?
I have noticed this price is often stuck (it is frozen at a certain value for a longer period).
For example the http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/ make use of the prices of MtGox (via an API calls I guess?). These prices are updating much more frequently than the prices of the BTC/USD contract.

Any background info on this is highly appreciated!

Thanks and compliments for all the good things!
Keep up the good work!

I wonder if its better to put the site on a trading hold till the tickers are working again. At least the BTCUSD ticker is now for two days not updating.
I have a position which i want to close with profit which is not possible, because the ticker is far below the market price. I have send to several emails about this issue now, and maybe it is better for you to publicly announce the (at least the BTCUSD) part is not ready for trading at this moment to prevent disappointing ppl which have the same issues. At least I hope you respond on my email what to do with my position 40 BTC, which I want to close at the market price around 11 (compensate loss?)

The ticker is now updating. Apologizes for the issues, this should be definitely solved, we now automatically reset the feed every hour. Thanks

You have done a very good job!
My apologize if I sounded to negative !
Good luck with all the hard work.
Respect! 

ALERT - TRADES NOT EXECUTING AT MTGOX - STOPPING TRADING
Here is the price bar at Mtgox, clearly showing something is wrong. Currently orders don't execute on mtgox and we're stopping trading.  

Last price:$11.61217 High:$1,000,000,000.00000 Low:$10.93900 Volume:42098 BTC Weighted Avg:$11.23707


UPDATE

Problem solved at Mtgox, restarting trading. Apologizes.

Hi Bitdaytrade,

Can you help me look into my withdraw please, its been more than 24 hours. My account is  handy.txg@gmail.com

Thank you

Why did you close positions ? (at least mines)
Do you plan on restore them ?

did you have a short position? that might've gotten closed because the ticker said 1 BTC = 1E12 USD.

No, i had a long position, with a 1:1 leverage, so it can't be a liquidation.
Not that it really matters, it was a 3 btc position, mainly for testing...
Am I the only one who got positions closed ?

bitdaytrade: Trading on your issue (BDT) has been frozen by the GLBSE.

Could you please explain what is going on? Will dividends still be paid this Friday?

Thanks.

Its also been frozen on other issues these people are involved in.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.msg1089859#msg1089859

BDT will be unfrozen and dividends will be paid by friday as planned.

Alberto

Talked with Alberto, my positions are back :)

Alberto is being very responsive and helpful lately.

Hi Albert (bitdaytrade),

Where is my withdraw??? it's been 36 hours.

I already sent email to customer service and get replied
"Hi there, we're looking into your request and executing it in a few
minutes. Apologizes for long delay."

It's been 12 hour since that reply and I haven't got my money.

If u seriously doing business please improve the service, nobody will happy to wait for 24 hour for deposit and wait for more than 36 hour and counting for withdraw. My account is handy.txg@gmail.com Thank You.

Regards,
Handy

 

OK thanks albert from solving my issue...  :)

Hello albert my withdraw still not process it is 0.99xx btc my id lrlowrate@gmail.com

pls. Process my withdraw as soon as possible.

Thanks

Apologizes, there was a problem with your withdrawal approval and it got stuck in the execution queue. It seems be executed properly now. Again apologizes for all issues caused.

X-Post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.msg1092784#msg1092784

After an IRC chat with Nefario we had clarified my position and I'm now able to release further updates. The reason that caused BDT freeze in first place is my involvement with Jonathan Ryan Owens (read JRO from here on), rebate IPO and suspicious funds management practices. It did not came without reasons and i believe in fact that Nefario just did the right choice the protect GLBSE market integrity. Some time ago i was working with JRO on some projects, and it was decided to hold an IPO on GLBSE for bitcoinrebate.com. At that time i was not fond of how GLBSE worked and didn't have time to investigate as i was busy with development, so i've trusted JRO to handle the IPO and funds on my behalf entirely. At some point i said i needed money for all the work i was doing, and got sent about 1000 BTC out of the rebate funds. I never knew the total amount raised, and didn't feel it was necessary to investigate. I have later learned that a total of 5000 bitcoin were raised. My relationship with JRO was interrupted shortly after, because of diverse reasons. After we parted ways JRO enquired me a number of times about taking the lead on the rebate project but we didn't reach an agreement. I was never enquired about profitability of the site or any financial detail. At this point, i have no idea where the rest of the funds raised from the sale of rebate bonds are gone, or if they have been exchanged to hard currency. Nefario transferred the totality of bonds to my account, i'll determinate the exact amount of bitcoin i got from JRO in the context of this project, and proceed with paying that amount back to investors through dividend payments in a unique solution. This was determined to be the best solution until we know how much can be recovered from JRO. Kudos to Nefario for handling matters in a professional way.

BDT trading is resumed since it was also determined that the asset has no involvement with this incident, and that there are no threats for GLBSE users. I'll proceed to execute dividends payment in the next hours. We won't pay late fees as it was determined that this incident is not directly caused by us.

Bests
Alberto Armandi
BDT

Hello,

is it just me....?

Bitdaytrade site is painstakingly slow.
Opening an XAU/BTC position: more than 30 seconds
Cancelling an BTC/USD position: no reaction, even after 2 minutes.

What's the experience of other beta testers? Does the site still work OK for those only using the Gold trading?

unfortunately I am having a similar experience..   

The site is quite slow... I've noticed that too.

Any word on whether you'll be able to get the spread smaller?  Part of the fun of Bitcoinica was swing trading, but when you have to be in-the-money by at least the $0.50 spread to profit, there isn't much room for short-term speculation.

We fixed the slowness issues. Site is now blazingly responsive.

Regarding the spread, it is computed automatically based on a number of parameters, such a slippage likehood, market depth, etc.
We plan on experimenting with different models.

Alberto

hosted at linode?

margin trading?

haven't we seen this play before?

What you have seen is incompetence by the people who ran the site you are referring to ( bitcoinica i suppose ). Linode is our choice for a short phase of testing. Next step is housing the server in a safe local datacenter.

Any comments on this?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ybaut/do_not_invest_in_bitdaytrade_this_website_is/

Apparently the website is filled with SQL injections and you use unsalted MD5. Is this true?

Just when I was considering investing some coins. Bitdaytrade?

Don't trust your money to this service, or anything created by a friend of a friend of this guy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/y99z3/go_long_or_short_with_bitcoin_again_up_to_10x/c5thkwg

^ This thread is the most brazenly dishonest thing I have ever read. When confronted with issues, he lies about them, then when the specific method for exploiting the vulnerability is shown to him, he patches that and nothing else, as if it'll make a difference. Then pretends like there was no exploit to begin with.

He clearly lied about passwords being stored with bcrypt.

He probably lied about hiring a security auditor, I went through the website and almost every major JSON api function has an SQL injection. All of them are exploitable with CSRF as well, which he had no adequate response to.

LOAD_FILE() appears to work and people can dump your PHP files, including the database file.

Instead of silently ignoring SQL errors or handling them, they are just die()'d in their entirety.

Were you making this service to scam people out of money once you had enough deposits or did you intend on going somewhere with this? Because you have just lost any and all credibility, and I highly recommend people withdraw everything they have.

Fail.

wuz up with site? can't withdraw nor everything. any statement here?

edit: extreme laggy, withdraw now requested

Someone pulled the plug and the bath water is running out.

I'm always willing to test new platforms, this brings me once again say, give me back my Bitcoins

There are a bunch of sockpuppets on reddit accusing BDT of being the thief responsible for the Kronos hack.  One previously promoted Yoon Yeonghwa's launch of posadoll.  Could MNW (a known sockpuppeter) be trying to sling mud on BDT?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/yc6rf/we_demand_a_public_apology_from_uthezenpadguy/c5ua667

<conspiracy>
Is MNW responsible for the Kronos hack, and sees the BDT hack as an opportunity to shift the blame?
</conspiracy>

My name is Alberto Armandi, i was born in Italy, 19/09/1983. I'm an internet entrepreneur who got caught in the Bitcoin phenomena about one and a half year ago.
Before Bitcoin, i have tried to launch several startups on my own, Wozad being one, a system for targeting digital ads based on your browsing history. It was doing well until Google Inc decided
to include the same type of targeting into their pervasive Adsense. The next effort was an hardware startup, Enso Limited, with which i've launched the highly controversial Zenpad. An early 5 inches
tablet powered by Android operating system. Enso managed to fail too, because of lack of funding but my failed endeavours did not leave a trail of destruction behind as i had and still have the determination to face any kind of trouble.
This is s short background, for those who missed it earlier, it can be easily found on the Official Bitcoin forum, in the Securities/BDT thread.
Now, fast forward to around April/May 2012 : I happened to get in touch with Jonathan Ryan Owens, who since the start of our relationship pictured himself as a sort of "Mr. Big" in the Bitcoin world and
shown to be able to use language fluenty, and to be able to convince anybody that he's actually skilled and a serious business man.
Since i did not have a real clue of who's who in this crazy, messed up community (do no take this as an insult, i'm referring to people who don't have exitation in runing other people lifes) i believed him,
and his claims of big success and profits and have developed trust on him and the group of people he was working with, again, i'm not trying to involve other people in this debacle, let's focus on Mr. Jonathan Ryan Owens.
We chatted extensively for a while and one day he came up with the ZipConf idea, inspired by some of my inputs and brainstorming. He started working on that and soon enough a site was online with that name.
Site's scope was allowing instant bitcoin transfers, without waiting confirmation from the network, as in classical bitcoin transactions. Business proposition seemed nice initially and Mr. JRO worked out
a lot of words to convince me and others it was so. He went ahead and held an IPO for this, as he said he needed lots of coins to make this happen. I was so convinced of the genuinity of this operation
that i have put Mr.JRO in touch with a guy i happened to know earlier, which is an important internet business man and investor. I valued highly my relationship with this guy, as he was funding my operations
and showing a lot of trust in me. I was hesitant, but finally made that mistake, i've procured about 2000 bitcoin in funds for the ZipConf endeavour, funded by this guy, which will go unnamed for privacy reasons.
Mr. JRO managed to put in place a written contract between him and this guy, the deal was that Mr.Jro would pay some interest over the 2000 bitcoin loan. I have later learned that this contract was never
signed and everything remained in the form of a legal agreement, bringing in even more liabilites for me, since i was the one to introduce the investor to JRO.
Everything seemed to be taking a great turn and I have then let Mr.JRO join the project i was working on, a custom Bitcoinica clone, coded entirely by me. It was intended to launch under the domain name btcxchange.net, which i own since July 2011, at that time Mr. JRO
said the brand name wasn't going places, and we agreed to call it Kronos.io. I went ahead, completed the coding work and deployed the site onto Mr. JRO controlled servers. The user interface i had
deployed was exactely the same i have in place at bitdaytrade, but Mr. JRO wanted a new design, so he hired someone to work out another skin, that took a couple of days. Please note that Mr.JRO managed
some very talented developers at that time, those who worked on ZipConf, but he never delegated them to have a check on Kronos.io source code, i've only later realized how much this is in contrast
with his claims of operating with high security standards and didn't link it directly to any malice backed act.
Almost At the same time, i was working on an unrelated project  Bitcoinrebate. After having shown Mr. JRO business plans and financial projections for said business, we decided to hold an IPO for it, to gather additional funds to be used on both rebate and Kronos.io.
At that time i demanded a payment for all the time and efforts i was putting in our projects and i was sent about 1000 bitcoin by Mr. JRO, claiming they were coming from a "trusted big lender".
I wasn't aware of how glbse worked at that time, nor i had realized the impact it might have had on my reputation, if things didn't go the way I expected. I have later learned that Bitcoinrebate IPO
was able to raise about 5000 bitcoin. I was never informed about this, not even a word.Mr JRO monopolized it all so i don't have a clue of where those coins (minus the 1000 i have received) ended up.
After Bitcoinrebate IPO i was instructed by JRO ( who always acted like a dictator and a boss ) to complete the work for Kronos ( implementing the new skin ) and prepare it for launch.
I have executed my duties and the site was launched. About one week later, Mr. JRO came up that he didn't need the coins initially funded by the unnamed investor and asked to return them back, to avoid
paying useless interests. Stupidly enough, i told him to just send him back in a mtgox account i was sharing with the investor, for different kind of operations, without asking him confirmation first.
I thought it was safe to do so and really didn't have a clue of what would be going to happen shortly.
I have made another mistake in this context, i have used this mtgox account for testing the Kronos.io hedging bot without asking direct confirmation from the investor, just assuming he would be ok with it
since my agreement with the investor was about generating profits from the coins he lend to me. I was managing money for this guy for a while and so i thought it was ok doing so.
The mtgox account passwords were know only to me and the investor, but Kronos.io had an automatic withdrawal feature, so the mtgox account was configured to allow bitcoin withdrawals via API.
Some days passed and apparently everything was going well, but one morning i woke up to find the mtgox account emptied and Kronos.io hacked.
I freaked out for a while then went ahead trying to track down what happened. It turned out that someone with knowledge of how the site worked internally (someone who was in possession of the source code)
had exploited it, exactely like it happened today with Bitdaytrade, but unfortunately, the mtgox account was emptied too, because of the automatic withdrawal feature.
I still have full logs of what happened then, with IP addresses and bitcoin addresses that received the loot.
Mr.JRO reaction to this was controversial, first he disappeared for days, claiming he was in a confused mental state, and dutied other people to deal with me. I was obviously trying to get in touch with him
like crazy, i couldn't get a hold of him on the phone at that time and i've tried for weeks. Then after some weeks he re-appeared online and blamed me harshly of incompentence and stupidity. Just like
it's happening now with Bitdaytrade, he deemed Kronos.io project dead, and gave me advice to work on different things and forget about Bitcoin.
Obviously i felt deeply ripped off, i had the investor who lost thousands of coins out of this big mess asking me what was my plan to recover the loss and going forward, with our relationship completely
destroyed on a trust level, and on the other hand i had Mr.JRO blaming me in a unmeaningful way about stupidity, incompetence, and such.I had determined at that time that my only choice was going forward with
the project, alone, i had high hopes that i would be able to repay the cumulated debt with profits i would be making from it. I then decided on another brand name, Bitdaytrade, asked support from some trusted
community members for holding an IPO to raise the necessary funds for its operations and went ahead modifying
the source code to allow Gold trading, finally launched a beta with this limited service, to avoid thousands of users flocking in, and keeping the risk level at a minimum while i ironed out all the kinks left.
Sometime passed, some users reported bugs and other problems, i had worked hard to fix all the issues and get the service to an acceptable level for the community. A lot of hack attempts where attempted
but the site did not suffer any major breach, and it was deemed safe by me.
I had initially implemented the blowfish/bcrypt algorithm for storing passwords safely but because of some recent technical problems i had to swith back temporarely to MD5. I had setup the site in way so that
when a user logged in, his password would be recovered and stored in MD5, you could have seen that by looking at the javascript files used in the login page.
Bitdaytrade IPO was held and necessary funds raised, for doing this i had to leverage the trust of other community Members, which Mr.JRO tried to block from putting trust in me, banking on the Kronos hack
story, and telling them all that i was obviously a thief. He didn't succeed as all of you noticed and Bitdaytrade started operating, i've first allowed BTC/USD margin trading feature privately for a week
and then opened it to the public, on Monday 13 of August.
Mr. JRO got in touch with me about a week ago, trying a last approach to block me, he demanded a "rapid prototype of a margin trading site" and in exchange he would not have made the Kronos.io hack public.
He added that i was losing out a great opportunity of working with him on a realworld exchange for virtual currencies and a sort of startup incubator
for bitcoin related projects.I have then understood where the funds from ZipConf, Rebate and Kronos.io ended up and obviously passed on this offer and went ahead with my plans.
What happened today is a reiteration of this blackmailing attempts, but with a more evil and criminal plan.
I strongly believe, and what i wrote in this explainative post gives a clear evidence of, that behind everything that was posted on reddit.com against bitdaytrade there is Mr. Jonathan Ryan Owens.
He used the previously stolen from him Kronos.io source code to orchestrate all of that you witnessed today, and managed apparently to have the community believe his story.
Not even one bitcoin was withdrawn from Bitdaytrade.com under today's attacks, and all funds are safe. Server will be kept offline for further investigation, and gathering of evidences to be presented upon
filing a criminal deposition with all the legal authorities i am/will be able to. Stay tuned for developments.
I'm deeply sorry and i publicly apologize to everyone for the mistakes i made in this mess but it will be sorted out and in a elegant way.

Best Regards
Alberto Armandi

This leaves us people testing / evaluating this new service with the hope that this incident will be handled professionally --

It would be desirable that restoring the site or shutting it down as a task should be kept separate from the resolution of this business related controversy between Jonathan Ryan Owens and Alberto Armandi.


In hindsight, what turned Bitcoinica into a real debacle was the lack of professionalism in handling the initial incidents

Thus may I please urge all participants to "hold on their breath" and act rationally

• to the operators of the Site: please keep us informed
• to the business partners or opponents: please don't settle your dispute in public
• to the community: please don't start conjuring conspiracy theories.

Are you going to refund those 3,000 BTC stolen with bitscalper?

1. Lear to use paragraphs when posting.
2. You didn't do your homework, and is now suffering from it.

As a general comment. If someone creates a service that's supposed to keep a lot of client funds, then security is vitally important. If the developer or team is unable to secure the site themselves, then it's better to pay someone that has the competence to do so, than to suffer a huge loss.

I don't have the time or the energy to follow this particular case closely, but I understand 4K BTC was already lost ? That amounts to 59K USD at the moment. How much would a code and security review by some professional cost ? Perhaps a few K's ?

Let this be a warning to all future bitcoin enterprises.

As a general comment
1. switch on your brain before you have "opinions"
2. stop guessing and read the information right below your nose


According to the text you couldn't effort to read, in this particular case no funds were lost, only the operation of the service was disrupted

Says otherwise on reddit. But I'll leave it to the incompetent guys to figure out.

The people on reddit who are claiming 4k was stolen are all sockpuppets smearing FUD.  It looks to me like the other Kronos guys who share responsibility for being hacked are trying to push all of the blame onto Alberto to make themselves look less guilty.

Im starting to agree with this.

Alberto did just come up with 4kbtc for Meni https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.msg1114170#msg1114170

The linked pastie (https://privatepaste.com/5241fafb45) and JRO's post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101109.0) confirms thousands of BTC were stolen from Kronos' mtgox account (nowhere clearly stated exactly how much). Charlie of BitInstant confirms (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101109.msg1105604#msg1105604) that Alberto is jjfarren aka bitscalper (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77195.msg857961#msg857961), an estimated 1000 BTC scam (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0#post_bitscalper_scam).



I don't believe that bitdaytrade hedged any gold trades, maybe Alberto did some manually but certainly not automatically. I don't think he has the skill to create a "custom tool" that actually hedges gold trades (he claimed to use Instaforex, then backpedaled and claimed trades are hedged on a "preferred trading platform"). Who knows whether bitcoin trades are hedged on mtgox.

I suspect that Alberto creates crude (buggy and insecure) front-end scam-sites, which don't function as advertised. If anyone who has the bitscalper code (from here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68862.msg892395#msg892395) MiningBuddy, Chaang Noi (Goat), teek) will share it with me, I'd like to take a look at its arbitrage capabilities. Even though MNW said (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68862.msg892579#msg892579) that Alberto had someone else write the bitscalper arbitrage bot (who?), to whatever extent it had one. (I'm late to the bitscalper threads, didn't follow them at the time).

Any updates on bitdaytrade.com?

I still waiting that reimburse me my deposit made to test this nonsense(shit) platform

Yes, that would be nice.

"I told you so"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.msg1139370#msg1139370

Can anyone confirm they got there deposit back?

Please refund my bitcoins now, or at least reply to my emails...

I second that...


Incidentally, are you whatching the discussion on the other thread (the GLBSE thread)?

Meni stated that he wants to discuss the situation with Nefario when he meets him at the Bitcoin conference

drop a line in Meni's thread if u have a deposit on bdt

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113369.0