Bitcoin Forum

I'm just gonna leave a few links here.

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-dawn-of-trustworthy-computing.html

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=blockchain%2C%20block%20chain&cmpt=q

https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=841.0%3Bwap2

.
.
.
.

http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/

use ctrl + f

So, I am busy right now.  I scanned Nick's post.  I'm glad he is writing again and the material seems pretty clearly written and on point, but which part exactly made your draw drop? 

Would you care to elaborate on the connections you posted?

It is kind of hard to agree or disagree with a bunch of links.

Sure;

Nick posted again today, (praising ethereum once again;) and I was reading and I noticed his use of the term "block chain" instead of "blockchain"

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-dawn-of-trustworthy-computing.html



Most people refer to it as blockchain (one word) as showen here by the Google trends.

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=blockchain%2C%20block%20chain&cmpt=q


and then I naturally looked up

http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/

Satoshi never said blockchain. He calls the ledger block chain.  :o

That is an interesting find. Nick has been theorized to be Satoshi for some time now.

And this made your jaw drop, Wow you need a life i think.  :P

thanks. i should play video games and kill virtual people like a normal person huh?

 Autocorrect will do that as well thought and in all probability, autocorrect is not Satoshi Nakamoto either.
A quick demonstration:- block chain - I just typed that as one word but my computer corrected me.
Interesting find though!

For some reason the whole bitcoin community can manage to get around the pesky auto-correction except for satoshi and sazabo.

What desktop browser auto corrects? I've only been aware of tablets/phones doing that

Safari.

Autocorrect mattocorrect. If I can type blockchain then they can as well.

in my browser if i write blockchain it gets the annoying red underline saying it was mis-spelled. i think both nick and satoshi hate not being gramatically correct in regards to out dated dictionaries

Pro-tip. Right click then add to dictionary.

Howwwwever... if Szabo was in discussion with like minds a couple of years prior and following bitcoin launch, and read Satoshis stuff, then he's likely to have picked up "block chain" as the OCD right! way to spell it.

That I can see. Sill very interesting to me.

 Well if they were to spell blockchain thusly,  it would be much harder for you to find them but at the same time easier on your jaw.
By the way, I noticed that you can do blockchain but not rocketship ;)  I would offer you a ride but I only have a rocket-ship:
https://soundcloud.com/dragonette/rocket-ship

 You might be onto something.

No, you should play online and kill actual players.

2 years ago I decided to scan Satoshi's forum posts here just to see if there was anything anomalous about his writing style.  Anything that stood out to me.  The first thing I noticed was that he constantly hyphenates things.  He never misses a properly hyphenated phrase.  He *always* hyphenates things.  Word phrases 99% of people have no idea should be hyphenated, he hyphenates.  In fact I almost wondered if he was over-hyphenating.  Doing it randomly sometimes.  In any case .... take a look at Szabos writings .... cough ...

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-dawn-of-trustworthy-computing.html

From that page alone:

ticket-selling at a movie theater
other kinds of every-day commerce
analog or paper-based institutions
participate in e-commerce
Turing-complete block chain
efforts included state-machine replication
dawn of the general-purpose personal computer
other interesting trust-minimized operations
the much-discussed "51% attack"
the oft-used word
mouthful "trust-minimized"
the cashier and ticket-ripper
decentralized or peer-to-peer
new fiduciary-intensive applications
off-chain assets or controls on-chain ones
other chain-titled assets
dry (on-chain) performance
traditional off-chain
into a single chain-controlled risk pool
low-hanging fruit

-B-

There aren't yet any games with this feature.  I sometimes wish on online fora there were a button to kill the actual poster, though.

Nick IS satoshi I've been saying this for years now

WOW!
One more nail in the coffin.
The best part about it though, is that Nick Szabo is another pseudonym. FAAAAK

It's clear that Nick Szabo is Satoshi.



Anyway, I agree with him regarding the importance of decentralisation, but not on the BTC blockchain, there are better, less expensive, wasting less resources and less potentially harmful ways to achieve decentralisation of value transfer over the internet.
A decentralised network yes, but not the BTC one that relies on PoW mining...

probabilistic Byzantine consensus (sometimes also called Nakamoto  consensus)

Who the hell calls it Nakamoto consensus?! Nobody ever until now!

Bonus points: double-space!

Szabo is fucking with us...

So, nothing in Google trends.



https://i.imgur.com/VnaKelD.png
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Nakamoto%20consensus

Also;


https://i.imgur.com/b4APl4F.png

Edit:

Szabo and this guy
http://www.oreilly.com/pub/e/3272

more Edit:

Interesting read

https://www.maidsafe.org/t/solving-sybil-attacks-in-the-web-of-trust/2066
Above links are the only two places that have "nakamoto consensus" and don' thave "szabo".

The term did not exist on the internet until Nickomoto Szaboshi wrote it. So he either knows more than he admits (was involved in writing the paper), or he's trolling hard (intentionally copies and expands the writing style)...

http://www.businessinsider.com/nick-szabo-bitcoin-2014-4

Then add any new terms to your dictionary like I do, thus ridding them pesky red underlines.

http://s23.postimg.org/u5bms3yy3/add.jpg

EDIT:


Gulp! Very next post, but at least I supplied an image acting as a tuturial (or however that fuckin' word is spelled  ::)).

Ergo, Satoshi Nakamoto-cum-Nick Szabo (or is it Nick Szabo-cum-Satoshi Nakamoto?).

Obviously, odolvlobo, thus FTFY.

So it's written with a dash?

I lol'd on that one!

Looks interesting but I'm to busy to read it atm, tldr anyone?

Found Szabo....err Satoshi   8)

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7q27x2r3A1qgere9.jpg

Yes, but ONLY on this date in history in remembrance of "Sweet Child O' Mine" entered the Billboard Top 40 in 1988. Reason? Guns N' Roses; N' as in en dash, commonly referred to as...wait for it...a hyphen. That Satoshi sure is a clever dude.  8)

I've been following this Twitter for a while now. Does everyone really think Satoshi is obssessed with Ethereum?? Really??

I see your point, but also have in mind that creators can often feel embarrassed about their earlier works.



Yeah, I'm pretty flip/flop on Szabo, sorry, flip-flop.

Bit careless I'd have thought to use same initial letters as his other moniker, could have been intended "Tribute" by a disciple/student.... or double bluff, "He wouldn't because too obvious..." etc.

holy-fuck

Nick keeps denying ;)

Possibly.  If Ethereum is attempting to allow all content on the internet to be decentralized.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11284538/Soon-the-internet-will-be-impossible-to-control.html

Satoshi Nakamoto is (probably) Nick Szabo
https://likeinamirror.wordpress.com/2013/12/01/satoshi-nakamoto-is-probably-nick-szabo/

Running similarity metrics on the whitepaper and Nick’s bit gold articles as well as his paper “formalizing and securing relationships on public networks”  indicated an excellent match over content-neutral expressions as well –so either Nick wrote the whitepaper, or it was written by somebody imitating Nick’s writing style.

• Repeated use of “of course” without isolating commas, contrary to convention (“the problem of course is”)
• Expression “can be characterized”, frequent in Nick’s blog
• Use of “for our purposes” when describing hypotheses
• Starting sentences with “It should be noted”
• Use of “preclude”
• Expression “a level of “ + noun  (“achieves a level of privacy by…”) as a standalone qualifier

There is also the remarkable lack of public reaction on Nick’s part when Bitcoin started taking off.

So... Satoshi borrowed Nick's language to the dot, made the whitepaper and communicated in this written vernacular (I tried to adopt a new way to communicate as an alternate persona and it requires months of work and intellect to pull off).

Now Nick is communicating normally but this confuses us because we are more exposed to Satoshi than Nick.

Or maybe he is testing how well his cover works by betting 420M USD market value on it. A few years ago he was like "hey guys, check out my new electronic gold thingy, if only I could make a program to demonstrate it...". Then a few years later Satoshi came "hey guys, check out my new decentralized coinage program, care to demonstrate it?".

http://marc.info/?l=cypherpunks&m=85281708903558&w=2

List:       cypherpunks
Subject:    Party with the Nextropians! at Nexus-Lite!
From:       plaz () netcom ! com (Geoff Dale)
Date:       1994-02-26 21:40:48
[Download message RAW]

         MEET THE NEXTROPIANS: WE ARE HERE AND NOW AMONG YOU
__________________________________________________________________________
Romana Machado - Geoff Dale - David Gordon - Nick Szabo - Russell Whitaker

So Nick partied with fellow cyperpunks and Nextropians:

Romana Machado, perhaps https://www.linkedin.com/in/romanamachado
Geoff Dale
David Gordon
Russell Whitaker

Where are they now?

1994 means those people were born in 1965-1970, meaning they should be 45-50 years old.

http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/SatoshiNakamoto

Why is Satoshi 39?

I know Vitalik has spoken to him in person. Not sure how excited he was. didn't check chub.

I've heard this before. Not going to deny it. But how do we know? Vitalik said so? Where did this information come from?

http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/2jk637/gav_i_have_a_question_nick_szabo/

I've seen this before, too. This is weak beans. What am I missing?

It's simple really. He is either lying or not. I don't know

szaboshi nickomoto...

For our purposes it should be noted that the user of such prose can be characterized as an academic in the sciences, but that does not preclude use by persons having a level of familiarity with such use of course.

Szabo is one of the seminal influences on cypherpunk thinking.  It would be no shocker if he were actually personally Satoshi, but he doesn't need to be.  His ideas speak for themselves.

He is one smart motherfucker, and you'd be well advised to take him seriously.

I thought the question was not whether the person behind Satoshi is Nick Szabo, but whether the person foaming at the mouth on Twitter about Ethereum is the same Nick Szabo as the Nick Szabo behind Satoshi...

 ???

Nick Szabo has denied being Satoshi Nakamoto.  He has a certain notoriety for honesty, so I would not call him a liar.

It is, however, entirely possible there is no single person who is Satoshi Nakamoto.

...sorry. Whether the Twitter Nick Szabo is the same Nick Szabo of BitGold...

I know it's all a bit confusing

Yes, I take him seriously, I meant flip-flop on whether he's Satoshi or not.

I realize his ideas are very entrenched in the community that bitcoin sprang from, that's why it's hard to separate Szabo-ness from Satoshi-ness.

I'd say probably yes.  Unless the real Nick Szabo has disowned it as a complete impostor, why wouldn't it be him?  It's not a terribly common name.

Really good ideas are viral.  (Unfortunately, so are really bad ideas.)

So it's entirely possible Satoshi was someone who picked up these really good ideas and ran with them.  Speculating on Satoshi's identity is kind of pointless at this phase.

interesting read

I guess I find it hard to believe he is such an Ethereum fanboy. I don't know. Seems shilly :-\

Money is only the testing benchmark application of the blockchain technology. But there are so many other uses, where resilience, independence and anti-fragility are not required for it to work. For example internal company accounting, games, infrastructure control, resource management...

I think all auto-correct in the OS's idiom.

I've seen it in mozila and opera and in tor bundle

gawd...so sick of you people. everything you don't agree with, is done by shillers and fan boys.

some similarities or coincidences

Meet the Extropians
Wired
http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/2.10/extropians_pr.html

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/meet-the-extropians-wired.jpg

Romana Machado - aka "Mistress Romana" - software engineer, author, and hot-blooded capitalist, showed up dressed as the State, in a black vinyl bustier and mini, with a chain harness top, custom-made for her at Leather Masters in San Jose, California, for whom she does modeling work. She was in all that garb, carrying a light riding crop, plus a leash, at the other end of which, finally, her Extropian companion Geoff Dale, the Taxpayer, crawled along in mock subjection. The couple embodied Extropian symbolism, the State being regarded as one of the major restrictive forces in the Milky Way galaxy. These people hate government, particularly "entropic deathworkers like the Clinton administration."

Early in the conference, Mike Perry, overseer of the 27 frozen people (actually, 17 are frozen heads, only 10 are entire bodies) submerged in liquid nitrogen at minus 321 degrees Fahrenheit (Cold enough for you?) at the Alcor Life Extension Foundation

Minor impediments like smog and earthquakes did not figure into his personal equation. But a change of name did.

"In Southern California, everybody changes their name: actors do, writers do. I knew I wanted to be a writer and become known, so that I could spread these ideas better, so I thought I might as well change my name," which until then had been Max O'Connor.

He spent a year thinking up a new name for himself, finally deciding on the word, More.

"It seemed to really encapsulate the essence of what my goal is: always to improve, never to be static. I was going to get better at everything, become smarter, fitter, and healthier. It would be a constant reminder to keep moving forward."

It would also be the start of a trend among Extropians: Mark Potts became Mark Plus; Harry Shapiro became Harry Hawk.

Notes:

Hal Finney, a very early supporter of Satoshi, has now been frozen.

Nick Szabo was an Extropian, and was a member at the same time as Romana Machado, Geoff Dale, David Gordon, and Russell Whitaker.

Nick Szabo is similar to Satoshi Nakamoto

Max More was Alcor CEO

Predictions in 1995 by Nick Szabo (and 6 other Extropians) on concepts including  
1,000,000+ People Using Anon. Electronic Cash and
Untaxable Economy Using Electronic Cash $100b/year.  
http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2003-December/002244.html

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1409263/satoshi-nakamoto-nick-szabo-bitcoin-creator.png

http://marc.info/?l=cypherpunks&m=85281708903558&w=2

List:       cypherpunks
Subject:    Party with the Nextropians! at Nexus-Lite!
From:       plaz () netcom ! com (Geoff Dale)
Date:       1994-02-26 21:40:48
[Download message RAW]

         MEET THE NEXTROPIANS: WE ARE HERE AND NOW AMONG YOU
__________________________________________________________________________
Romana Machado - Geoff Dale - David Gordon - Nick Szabo - Russell Whitaker


Nick had a connection to Portland, OR in 1993
https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto/?f=privacy_szabo.paper.txt

From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo)
Subject: How to protect your electronic privacy -- consumer pamphlet
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 03:20:30 -0700 (PDT)

Here is a handout I've written for our next Portland-area libertarian
meeting.   Comments welcome.  Feel free to distribute freely (you
can edit out Portland-specific stuff) with attributions.

Fine-Tuned Mood/Motivation Transformation Drugs - 2010

Hah, I think they missed the date as these are common place in the last two years and will soon be banned in the US.

Most Publications are Electronic - 2015

Someone tell the publishers they're behind schedule...

Information Storage $0.01 per Megabyte - 2010

Well gigabyte now...

1,000,000+ People Using Anon. Electronic Cash - 2010

Everything looks too optimistic. The generation gap and the general population inertia is not something you can discount. The fact that 40 years have passed and we don't have an active lunar exploration base says some things...

What is this thread even about, trying to pump etherum as "satoshi is behind it" rofl...

It would also be the start of a trend among Extropians: Max O'Connor became Max More; Mark Potts became Mark Plus; Harry Shapiro became Harry Hawk.  And Tom Morrow and FM-2030.  Nick Szabo was an Extropian.

So did Nick change his name?

Nice try....Satoshi

so you see ethereum as a viable investment?
How do you see bitcoin vs ethereum in the long run?

Im afraid to hold anything that isnt bitcoin..

No.  He is one of the Extropians who didn't do that annoying fucking thing of changing his name.  Because seriously, that is some pretentious and retarded shit.

(Did I ever mention I got thrown off the Extropians mailing list in the early '90s for literally no reason?  I think I pissed off that idiot Perry Metzger somehow.)

It is difficult to imagine being thrown off the Extropians mailing list.  Were you too old-fashioned, or is it that he is too much of a fucking control freak?

I'll leave this here
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2joa25/the_synergy_of_bitcoin_and_ethereum/





Herpy derp derp

I feel the same way. Of all the altcoins and cryptocurrencies, the only other one that has me curious is Ethereum. But I didn't buy in because I feel Bitcoin will always be worth more than Ethereum.

I would be blown away if Ethereum was more valuable than Bitcoin. I just can't see that happening. So hence my decision to remain invested in BTC.

Plus, what's to say that all or most of the important features of Ethereum won't get implemented into the Bitcoin protocol eventually anyway?

Lastly, Bitcoin total coins = 21 million. Ether total = 60 million. Bitcoin is scarcer.

I'm curious to hear other peoples' opinions on this subject.

The latter, I believe.  Perhaps I was too snarky about their ridiculous beliefs, like I am about the equally silly dipshits at LessWrong.

We all have a roll to play.  Some are cheerleaders.  Some are here to speak the truth, especially when others don't want to hear it.

I bought a small amount of ether but not to out profit my Bitcoin but because I really believe in their cause and I wanted to support them and the project. If it makes me money then wooo

Scarcity is not meaningfully correlated to the units chosen to represent total coinage in cryptocurrencies. That's like someone saying "you can have 1 pint of this beer or 568ml of this other one" and you deducing that the 1 pint must be "scarcer" than the 568ml beer. The units involved don't really matter, it's what's in the glass that counts - i.e., does the cryptocurrency provide utility and value, or does it not.

If ethereum takes off, so will bitcoin. Wanna use a DAO? Neet Gas. Want gas? Need bitties!

*One of the first places where Satoshi Nakamoto mentioned bitcoin was at the P2PFoundation.ning.com. When you register there, you have to give your birthdate.

Satoshi gave April 5th 1975.

April 5th was one of the most significant dates in history. On that day in 1933, President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 6102, which made it illegal for American citizens to own gold.

So what happened in 1975?

1975 was the year it became legal for American citizens to own gold again.

http://originalcontroltheory.tumblr.com/

Szabo talking about his name and his pseudonyms........(same old info everybody talks about)

http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html


»»»But no one ever talks about this......(Szabo's original and favorite Twitter buddy who happens to be a c++ coder)

2007
Zooko: "I want to invent something else: a truly decentralized economic mechanism. Research that points in this direction includes the sub-field of "algorithmic mechanism design" within economic game theory, some peer-to-peer research such as GNUnet, Wei Dai's and Nick Szabo's ideas about "bit gold", Nick Szabo's "smart contracts", and much more. Another inspiration is BitTorrent's tit-for-tat mechanism, which is decentralized and minimal, but gets the job done within its limited problem domain."
https://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2007-June/000022.html

2007
Zooko: "Nick Szabo is a very interesting thinker whose domain includes law, economics, networking, cryptography, and so on. I've been acquainted  with his ideas for many years (starting with his inspiring and mind- expanding "Smart Contracts", which I became aware of in approximately 1996). He has just now posted a blog entry about Allmydata-Tahoe economics:"
https://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2007-June/000025.html

2007 Szabo applies BitGold and his "Scarce Object" theory to Zookos p2p hard drive project.
Szabo: "One possible answer to central mint vulnerability is bit gold -- a currency the value of which does not depend on any particular trusted third party. ANOTHER alternative is (an object barter economy"Scarce Objects")." Note: Put these all together and you have Bitcoin....
http://web.archive.org/web/20070625154046/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/  
http://web.archive.org/web/20070618142414/http://szabo.best.vwh.net/scarce.html

Zooko: "What I want is a currency which everyone can cheaply and conveniently use but which no-one has the power to manipulate. No-one has the power to inflate or deflate the currency supply, no-one has the power to monitor, tax, or prevent transactions. Truly the digital equivalent of gold, during the times and places when gold was the universal currency.

Szabo said only Finney and Nakamoto had the motivation to accomplish it, but if you research 2007 you will see Zooko was fired up about creating Szabo's ideas.

Zooko was also unemployed from 2007(the year Nakamoto said he started working on Bitcoin) and stayed that way until Nakamoto disappeared. Zooko was also posting about Bitcoin 23 days after it was put online.(trying to get people in different circles to check it out)


http://originalcontroltheory.tumblr.com/

Yes.  This Szabo quote from 1993 deserves to be repeated.

http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html


And I found the summary of the Penet remailer compromises to be interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penet_remailer

And thank you for the Zooko leads.  


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko_Wilcox-O%27Hearn

A few more Zooko links...

1999 Zooko moving up in the cypherpunks
http://www.shmoo.com/mail/cypherpunks/jun99/msg00373.html

2007
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2007/06/nanobarter.html?m=1

2007
http://lowlife.jp/yasusii/blogmark/2007/08/

2007/2008 Zooko c++
https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/pycryptopp/ticket/3

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle


http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/05/bitcoin-timing-is-everything.html?m=1

"Nick Szabo and Zooko Wilcox-O’Hearn disagree strongly with the thesis that “Bitcoin is Worse is Better”. They contend while there may be bad parts to Bitcoin, there is a novel core idea which is actually very clever - the hash chain is a compromise which thinks outside the box and gives us a sidestep around classic problems of distributed computing, which gives us something similar enough to a trustworthy non-centralized authority that we can use it in practice."       ~gwern

Zooko: May 31, 2011 at 6:42 PM
"Gwern’s post fails to appreciate the technical advances that BitCoin originated."
"I have been trying, off and on, to invent a decentralized digital payment system for fifteen years (since I was at DigiCash). I wasn’t sure that a practical system was even *possible*, until BitCoin was actually implemented and became as popular as it has. Scientific advances often seem obvious in retrospect, and so it is with BitCoin."

Zooko: May 31, 2011 at 6:44 PM
"Oh wait, I have to revise this, as I remember trying to invent a decentralized digital payment system in about 1995, which was before I joined DigiCash. :-)"

Twould appear Zooko knows Satoshi..
https://twitter.com/zooko

Double bluff? But IMO probably related to mail hacking incident.

Edit: though that kind of implies that he know's Satoshi, but not necessarily the ID behind the nym, since otherwise he'd know better than most of us how to dig him up I would have thought.

Plot thickens.
FAAAAK

Evil Genius....
http://web.archive.org/web/20010331105544/http://zooko.com/

Yes

pseodo-random brain droppings:



DigiCash Inc. was an electronic money corporation founded by David Chaum in 1990. DigiCash transactions were unique in that they were anonymous due to a number of cryptographic protocols developed by its founder. DigiCash declared bankruptcy in 1998.

The Nextropians (including Nick Szabo and Hal Finney) had meetings in Cupertino, only 6 miles away from Mountain View.

Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn conducting a rather detailed analysis of a botnet herder mining Bitcoins
https://plus.google.com/108313527900507320366/posts/1oi1v7RxR1i

^ Szabo worked at DigiCash also. So that means Zooko and Szabo were co-workers. I'll check the dates to see if they were employed at the same time.

Zooko wrote the Bitcoin client with Szabo's whitepaper and guidance. When their project got too close to the CIA they jumped ship and went low and let Gavin and a few other enthusiasts handle the assets.

Now Szabo pretends it's raining (still uses the same language) and supports Ethereum (full touring blockchain using Satoshi Consensus invented term coined by him) while Zooko calls for Satoshi to send him a message while working a public job and fancying Bitcoin projects.

Or Satoshi is someone totally different that knows their work but they don't know him (which is weird for Szabo having a doppelganger that does better than you while putting everyone on your tail).

And what of do we make of David Chaum?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chaum

http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q00/1337.html

I think from the posts I've read from 2005-2009 that both Tim May and David Chaum were just inspirations and mentors for Satoshi, both seem to have been mostly retired. I think if Chaum was Satoshi the white paper would say "©BitCoin: by David Chaum" and the first citation would be to DigiCash. That's just the kind of person he seems to be.

You summed it up perfect. That's problably as close as we will ever get(the best conclusion from the available circumstantial evidence)........unless they (Szabo & Zooko) let us in on it ;)

Incidentally, Freedom was genuinely awesome.  It's too bad it didn't catch on for whatever reason.  It was basically an early commercial attempt to do what TOR does now.  I guess they couldn't manage to exploit it commercially enough to make a profit.

I've got it, the Extropians were okay freezing just their brains right? That means they must KNOW human cloning is possible, just take a few cells make a new body... well since they were involved with the tech companies that set that whole market up, then what if they had a clone made in about 99-00ish and had it in an accelerated growth tank for 5 years, then mind melded Zooko and Szabo with it.. then turned it loose... and it's probably buried in a national park somewhere now :D

I think their reasoning on that is sound, at least to the extent that cryopreservation is assumed to be possible at all.  The kind of technology required to revive a brain and an entire body are at such a level that if you can do one, you can likely do the other, or at least it won't be much longer.  Freezing a brain, even as quickly as physically possible, is likely to cause damage that will have to be repaired at the microscopic level for so many cells in it that you'd end up with at best a drooling vegetable without doing it.  That might be okay if we cryopreserve politicians, but most people would prefer actually to be mentally functional.  That kind of cell repair is so advanced that creating a clone body, compared to it, isn't that much.

Interesting from http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q00/1337.html

Read Dan Fabulich reply.

Then go here: https://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg04919.html

It reads to me like Dan was obsess with the date that Digicash's patent expires: 2007(?).

Anybody know anything about Dan Fabulich except that he, too, types two spaces after a full stop?

I know who santoshi nasamoko is and I'm not telling

If I told you that Mark Karpeles and I are really brothers and that together we'll bake you an apple pie, than maybe?

also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko's_triangle which at last got squared by Namecoin.

It looks like
https://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg04919.html
is a post by Matthew Gaylor, who is quoting a post by Dan Fabulich on extropians-digest on 7 Jun 2001

He does sound like a man with a plan.

There is szabo again. we are going in circles lol. By design. Thanks Szabo.

Namecoin, which was created by pseudonymous double-spacer "Vincent Durham" aka "vinced" who appeared right around when Satoshi Nakazabo vanished.

https://i.imgur.com/GELyxhi.jpg

I had researched Dan Fabulich, not much more turned up. A lot of people were waiting on Chaums patients to expire. Most were trying to write around it. I'm looking for those notes right now. If I find them I'll send to you.

:'(

@ TippingPoint

I remember now. He did not have the time in 2007-2009. Google Dan Fabulich using each year. There 20+ pages of games and apps he designed and produced each year, plus a lot of other things. He also got away from the ecash and concentrated tremendously on gaming and in his spare time(not very often) he worked on browsers/apps.

Note: He just didn't have the time to write the Bitcoin client like Zooko did(even if he would have been using Szabo's white paper and Szabo's guidance)


I think we're back at BomaU's summary:

"Zooko wrote the Bitcoin client with Szabo's whitepaper and guidance. When their project got too close to the CIA they jumped ship and went low and let Gavin and a few other enthusiasts handle the assets."

"Now Szabo pretends it's raining (still uses the same language) and supports Ethereum (full touring blockchain using Satoshi Consensus invented term coined by him) while Zooko calls for Satoshi to send him a message while working a public job and fancying Bitcoin projects."

"...Or Satoshi is someone totally different that knows their work but they don't know him (which is weird for Szabo having a doppelganger that does better than you while putting everyone on your tail)."

Wow. This is actually a nice find. Hmm, I wonder if I use the forum search and see how many use "block chain" vs "blockchain". I wonder if it would be a big diference.

Either way, nice find :)

Happy holidays

Mistercoin

The first implementation was a lot more solid than most initial releases done by a single person, so I seriously doubt there is a single Satoshi.  Considering the nature of secrets--"three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead"--I'd guess it was a small group, but there was probably some degree of peer review on the code before it was made public.

It could be that one person was the main driving impetus and also the "voice" of the group, or that they were two separate people.

I doubt there will ever be a single person you can point to and authoritatively say "this is Satoshi Nakamoto."  It is also legally wise to spread out liability like this, even though Bitcoin is not illegal and creating it certainly wasn't.  But if some future repressive regime suddenly decides it was, the "conspirators" could all just point their fingers at each other, or blame it all on any member who died in the interim.  "His name was Robert Paulson."

My wild-ass guesstimate is the core group couldn't have been fewer than three or much greater than five.  There would also be very few outsiders (or even none) who knew about it beforehand.  I could be wrong, though.  I think the group would be mostly old school cypherpunks of the code-writing sort, a group inhumanly good at keeping secrets.

If satsohi was a group then it would be even harder to keep the secret and someone would have come out by now. Besides, one of that group will have likely wanted their slice of the pie by now, a pie that has gone untouched so far. Somebody will get hungry eventually if that was the case  :D.

Time to ask some basic Nick Szabo questions.

Was "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo a member of the Extropians who met in Cupertino?
    Subject: Party with the Nextropians! at Nexus-Lite!
    From: plaz@netcom.com (Geoff Dale)
    Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 13:40:48 -0800
    Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com

         MEET THE NEXTROPIANS: WE ARE HERE AND NOW AMONG YOU
__________________________________________________________________________
Romana Machado - Geoff Dale - David Gordon - Nick Szabo - Russell Whitaker
When: Saturday, March 12, 1994, 7.p.m (after the Cypherpunks meeting, until
an indeterminate time on the following day)
Where: 21090 Grenola Drive, Cupertino CA
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1994/02/msg01429.html

Did "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo write How to Protect Your Electronic Privacy, Portland 1993?
https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto/?f=privacy_szabo.paper.txt

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the former mayor of Cupertino?

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the one born in 1930, graduate of UC Berkeley, resident of Silicon Valley (Cupertino), employed at Lockheed, Link-Singer, and KLA?  Wife named Marcia?
http://www.faireconomy.org/files/pdf/notalonereportfinal.pdf

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the holder of these patents?
http://www.patentbuddy.com/Inventor/Szabo-Nicholas/7231849

Did "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo know Hal Finney since 1993?
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo this 84 year old guy in Cupertino?
http://radaris.com/~Nicholas-Szabo/223526343

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the son "Andrew Nicholas Szabo" of the old guy in Cupertino, now living in Madison, WI?
http://radaris.com/~Andrew-Szabo/178052517

Where are the photos of "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo?

Who has been in the same room with "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo?
Romana Machado? - Geoff Dale? - David Gordon?  - Russell Whitaker?

Why didn't Satoshi cite Nick Szabo's bit gold in his whitepaper?
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html

In Jan 2 1993, when Nick Szabo wrote "In my limited experience creating Internet pseudonyms, I’ve been quite distracted by the continual need to avoid leaving pointers to my True Name lying around — excess mail to/from my True Name, shared files, common peculiarities (eg misspellings in written text), traceable logins, etc." what pseudonyms had he already used?
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html

What was the result of Nick Szabo writing in 2008 "... would greatly benefit from a demonstration, an experimental market (with e.g. a trusted third party substituted for the complex security that would be needed for a real system). Anybody want to help me code one up?" (seven months before the release of Bitcoin)

Who was the "eddie" who first used the term "bit coin" on Szabo's blog?

What did Nick Szabo mean by the statement, [These comments edit and add to comments of mine under previous blog post(s)]?  Was the "eddie" comment originally made somewhere else?

How many Nick Szabos could live in Cupertino, and how many would it take to screw in a lightbulb?

I can only think of one person that claims to have met him in person: Vitalik from Ethereum.  Any others?

http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/2jk637/gav_i_have_a_question_nick_szabo/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/2jk637/gav_i_have_a_question_nick_szabo/)

"I spoke with him a couple of times, including in person."

SATURDAY, DECEMBER 27, 2008 (looks like the year is false, you can see by the URL and comments below)
Bit gold

Here are the main steps of the bit gold system that I envision:

(1) A public string of bits, the "challenge string," is created (see step 5).

(2) Alice on her computer generates the proof of work string from the challenge bits using a benchmark function.

(3) The proof of work is securely timestamped. This should work in a distributed fashion, with several different timestamp services so that no particular timestamp service need be substantially relied on.

(4) Alice adds the challenge string and the timestamped proof of work string to a distributed property title registryfor bit gold. Here, too, no single server is substantially relied on to properly operate the registry.

(5) The last-created string of bit gold provides the challenge bits for the next-created string.

(6) To verify that Alice is the owner of a particular string of bit gold, Bob checks the unforgeable chain of title in the bit gold title registry.

(7) To assay the value of a string of bit gold, Bob checks and verifies the challenge bits, the proof of work string, and the timestamp.


Transcription to Bitcoin:
(1) A public hash target, the "challenge string," is created (see step 5).

(2) Alice on her computer generates the proof of work string from the challenge bits using a benchmark [double SHA-256] function.

(3) The proof of work is securely timestamped. This should work in a distributed fashion, with several different timestamp services so that no particular timestamp service need be substantially relied on written on the blockchain in a distributed fashion with multiple copies providing a timestamp service where no particular timestamp service need be substantially relied on.

(4) Alice adds the hash target and the timestamped proof of work string to a distributed blockchain. Here, too, no single server is substantially relied on to properly operate the registry.

(5) The last-created string of bitcoin provides the challenge bits [header] for the next-created string.

(6) To verify that Alice is the owner of a particular bitcoin block coinbase, Bob checks the unforgeable chain of transactions in the bitcoin blockchain [parsing back all transactions].

(7) To assay the value of a transaction output, Bob checks and verifies the hash target, the proof of work string, and the timestamp.


First comment was made on Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:16:14 GMT
Kay Bell said...
Nick,
This isn't really a comment on this post, but since I haven't found a way to e-mail you, I thought I would use this way to let you know that I referenced one of your papers in a recent entry on my tax blog, Don't Mess With Taxes. It's in the entry about property taxes.
Best,
Kay Bell

Second comment was made on Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:44:51 GMT
Nick Szabo said...
Thanks! That's a good article you have about property taxes, and it's fascinating to see that narrow houses made it to Virginia.. Here's my cited article on value measurement and taxes.

He also explains that with timestamping it is impossible for ASIC producers to destroy the blockchain and based on the technology and computing power, what the generation cost was (nobody really cares about that in the past, just in the present or future). He also puts the burden of premine verification on the exchanges, which many have failed to do their job in this area for many altcoins. We also don't value coins differently, they have the same aggregated price, something he did not forsee.

Also a commenter asks why would anyone pay for wasted computer cycles, it is still difficult to explain this after 5 years to new people.

Yes.  

The Kay Bell post on her web site in which she references a Nick Szabo academic paper is dated Tuesday, December 27, 2005
Our house is a very, very, very taxed house
http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2005/12/our_house_is_a_.html

yet the Nick Szabo blog post on Bit Gold which contains a comment from Kay Bell is now dated Saturday, December 27, 2008

which indicates that something on the Szabo blog about Bit Gold was edited.

Attempting to determine what was changed on the Szabo Bit Gold blog using
https://web.archive.org/web/20140503151344/http://unenumerated.blogspot.fr/2005/12/bit-gold.html
only shows an archive as old as May 3, 2014.  The internet archive has been archiving web pages since 1996.

Coincidentally, Internet Archive accepts Bitcoin donations.

I think the evidence is stronger that Romana Machado, Geoff Dale, David Gordon, and Russell Whitaker have met Nick Szabo in person.

It is worth mentioning that Romana Machado wrote the steganography program Stego, a steganography tool that enables you to embed data in Macintosh PICT format files, without changing the appearance or size of the PICT file. Thus, Stego can be used as an "envelope" to hide a previously encrypted data file in a PICT file, making it much less likely to be detected.

http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/dsp.cgi?msg=4472


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwLi3ctchbWkncdKTqS5UdjBpFTK3OfgvOEvP06JRZ2uUFNej-
"To da moon!"

Don't make me dig up early references to Cryonics by Hal.

guys, did you ever think the right thing to do is just nod, wink and smile to yourself ?

there are many other 'facts' to find for those who look still the message is what is important

more so than exactly who the messanger is......

consider if you were involved  with helping form these concepts for others and wanted a little privacy

**** update *****

The Internet Archive in Alexandria Egypt archived the Nick Szabo Bit Gold blog page on Nov 9, 2007
http://web.archive.bibalex.org/web/*/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html

http://i59.tinypic.com/n4bmh1.png

That archive is now described as "Temporarily Unavailable"

yes

Kay Bell tweets about Bitoin: https://twitter.com/taxtweet

I wonder if she's related to a certain one Gavin Bell who attended Princeton.

I stumbled upon Kay's article prior to being met with the post I quoted above: http://web.archive.org/web/20060225144059/http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2005/12/our_house_is_a_.html


http://web.archive.org/web/20070109083222/http://www.blogger.com/profile/14241889

Here's the correct link timestamped correctly: http://web.archive.org/web/20060329122942/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html#links

Jody Drake raises chickens.

Nick Szabo's brother raises rabbits.

Want to know who Nick's brother is? It'll cost you a quarter - per clue!  ;D (Always thinkin' on how to make bank, just like Bryan Micon)

First clue is free. He resides in a Midwest state where many famous astronauts call home.

Second clue: His name is the same as one of my living uncles on my dad's side of the family, and rhymes with a certain Liechtenstein jingle [in their pockets].

David Gordon had an email address from japan
dgordon@crow.omni.co.jp                   (David Gordon)
listed on the same life extension directory page as Nick Szabo
szabo@techbook.com                        (Nick Szabo)
and Hal Finney
ghsvax!hal@uunet.UU.NET                   (Hal Finney)
http://www.newsdemon.com/newsgroup-info/sci.life-extension

Hold on there, dude! I found Nick's brother (rhymes with franc) and I'm tryin' to make a clad or two, hence the selling of clues. I possess where Nick declares his brother a rabbit raiser in the state of O... (that's all the free clues I'm giving). BTW, they're a Flemish breed, if that makes any difference.

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7565/15904553930_35ea0a9a3a_b.jpg

Unless you're capable of finding an active site on the internet by a dude whose first name rhymes with franc, has the same last name as Nick's, resides in a state that starts with the letter O where a many astronauts hail from, and raises a certain Flemish breed of rabbits, then I demand a quarter for the URL of the above.  ;)

Guys please ,  see this and chill http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html (http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html)

I think it is quite clear that Szabo is the inventor of BitCoin.

http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.2Q01/3152.html

And, this is where this thread morphs to the opening of some The Big Szabo Theory episode.

https://w2.eff.org/Net_culture/Folklore/Humor/squish.hoax

http://s10.postimg.org/nbmf67r6x/Squish.jpg


http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140609010635/bigbangtheory/images/d/de/Sheldon-sheldon-cooper-31965530-500-645.jpg
"The idea of `spawning identities' for `psychological exploration,
sociological experiments or sexual thrills' repulses me."

just to remind you some big research saying shado = satoshi = nash

http://fuk.io/who-is-satoshi-nakamoto-the-truth/

Fuck me, I "eKnow" at least 2 names on that list. Wish I'd seen that years ago actually.

The links provided here may be of interest: http://web.archive.org/web/19970607174128/http://www.best.com/~szabo/

On the other hand, Cryonics mentions by Nick Szabo...

http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/dsp.cgi?msg=2517

I wonder what Nick's brother is up to now-a-days.


http://projectnovaeuropa.com/new-settlement-for-north-american-and-european-ex-pats-seeking-freedom-launched-in-chile/

Nick Szabo, a retired executive of a multinational high-tech company, has a doctorate in electrical engineering from UC Berkeley and is a former mayor of Cupertino.  He has served as a member of the Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) for Export Control of the U.S. Department of Commerce.
March 2007
http://tian.greens.org/TASC/SzaboOnGovernment.html

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jule-j-tasc-inc-szabo/89/727/994

I've been racking my brains over the Squish post, representing as it does a who's who of "cyberanarchists" and prominent usenet posters. As I said, I was "list buddies" with a couple of them, just over half I recognise by notoriety/reputation. I was interested in fringe subjects, and with that connection made, realise I was moving in a lot of the same circles many of them were. I actually think I made a choice to stay out of the crypto circles back then though, I was outside the US and .gov was serious about crypto export controls at that time, I didn't want to get thrown off what systems I had access to, by incurring the attention/ire of US wrt to messing with crypto better than was allowed for export at the time (Which was pretty damn lame, so basically everything.)

Anyway, it's got me in deep thought about those days, I can't recall coming across Hal or Szabo, they were maybe in tighter circles around the crypto and cryo nodes. Although I say that, while realising that Szabo has been causing a slight itch in my brain since coming across his name wrt bitcoin, but I can't recover that connection if there is one.

Kinda wish I still had all my "archives" of the interactions I had back in the day, I can search of course but doesn't reconstruct the trains of thought and threads of consciousness, awareness of things, it's coming in cold.

Interesting choice of words.  It could just be that, a choice of words.  But if taken literally, it implies it wasn't always a mystery, at least not to Hal.

I'd be amazed if he didn't know exactly who Satoshi was (or was Satoshi or one of the group himself).

Gavin must fucking know.
Good for him for keeping his mouth shut. Even though I wanna know who stoshi is/are, I don't want them to be outed.

Hah, yah, I've got the "Don't really care, but it's a really interesting puzzle" thing going on.

I just get really happy when I find a raging clue LOL

He posted Bitgold originally in 2005, but during fall/winter of 2008 was on hiatus from posting, and so was reposting earlier blog entries.

As much as I'd love to know who satoshi is I kinda hope he's never found. I like the mystery behind him and bitcoin and he or they would be hassled to death by the media and beggars etc.

Nick Szabo is real. I will not post any links, but if you dig, you will find hard evidence that he is. Is he Satshi? Very likely. Does it matter? No.

^ I hope that he never is linked to as the real Satoshi.

I hope satoshi remains anonymous.

He should tell us who he is on his death-bead, then say " I'm going to redistribute that unmoved million BTCs to the poor and the needy via one of my decibels" 

http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/b17bc-robin-hood.png

So some people organized themselves, launched a testnet, then the live net with a shaky network of CPU miners that dwindled in the summer of 2009. However, in autumn it picked up really fast and people got interested. This forum was created, so let's look at what happened 5 years ago:

UID - alias - rank - activity - details
1 - admin - disabled - 7 - wiped and disabled for security reasons
2 - ###
3 - ###
4 - sirius - staff - 429
5 - ###
6 - ###
7 - ###
8 - ###
9 - ###?
10 - Xunie - full - 132
11 - madhatter - new - 1
12 - nanaimogold - sr - 406
13 - SmokeTooMuch - hero - 862
14 - The Madhatter - hero - 626
15 - ###
16 - xuO4k04c6Ng - new - 1
17 - The Doctor - new - 1

Then 2010 came around. thermos has user number 35, there are still few people registering every month. I registered when the forum was 2 years old, after about 1 year of dicking around because people were trying to mine on Arduinos or something.

As you can see, the first 8 users except sirius were either very naughty (completely wiped before mod rules were made) or requested their accounts to be deleted for various reasons. Unfortunately you can't see these profiles, they are not indexed outside the site due to permission restrictions.

I don't see how hal could think that he knew satoshi's identity and then for some reason, several years later not know it (or put it into question).

I don't think the person who posted on the message boards is the same person as satoshi, the concept of bitcoin and the bitcoin protocol would have not taken that long to build and create

Are you serious about that?  The concept took at least 15 years just from Chaum's original idea (not counting everything that led up to that).  The idea is one thing, and actually implementing it in such a way that there were no fatal flaws in the original implementation is a hell of an accomplishment and would require an extraordinary level of knowledge of basically everything involved, every potential vulnerability, and then, incredible attention to detail.

There is nothing obvious about Bitcoin or how to implement it.

Naw, it appeared overnight man, it's proof of ALIENS man, *puff* *pass*

Not sure what you're saying, but I'm just pointing out that it is not something any idiot could put together given the idea.

We're all Satoshi.

Just a rip on the school of "thought" that says transistors and microchips are recovered alien tech because they came out of nowhere, when like bitcoin there was a long enough human history of development in the field. Just what gets said by dumb people about things they find incomprehensible.

LOLWUT?

You mean this big freaking thing came out of nowhere 50 years after engineers studied electrical properties of many materials?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Replica-of-first-transistor.jpg

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2008/04/bit-gold-markets.html?m=1

Szabo calls out to the cypherpunk types for help to finalize coding BitGold and run a test net a few months before the white paper gets published online.

*Szabo’s post for assistance:
“Bitgold would greatly benefit from a demonstration, an experimental market (with e.g. a trusted third party substituted for the complex security that would be needed for a real system). Anybody want to help me code one up?”

Who do you think would have answered at that time? I'm sure those same names that are missing from the members list.....

Zooko: (January 26 2009)
 "What I want is a currency which everyone can cheaply and conveniently use but which no-one has the power to manipulate. No-one has the power to inflate or deflate the currency supply, no-one has the power to monitor, tax, or prevent transactions. Truly the digital equivalent of gold, during the times and places when gold was the universal currency. See the BitGold idea by Nick Szabo and b-money idea by Wei Dai, and recent effort to actually implement something along these lines: BitCoin by Satoshi Nakamoto."

* Ray Dillenger (Bear) quote: “Finney, Satoshi, and I discussed how divisible a Bitcoin ought to be.  Satoshi had already more or less decided on a 50-coin per block payout with halving every so often to add up to a 21M coin supply.  Finney made the point that people should never need any currency division smaller than a US penny, and then somebody (I forget who) consulted some oracle somewhere like maybe Wikipedia and figured out what the entire world’s M1 money supply at that time was”.

"We debated for a while about which measure of money Bitcoin most closely approximated; but M2, M3, and so on are all for debt-based currencies, so I agreed with Finney that M1 was probably the best measure". ~Ray Dillenger (Bear)

*Hal Finney quote: “How do you find someone who has spent a lifetime covering his tracks?…For some, he was a guardian angel. others, a ghost, who never quite fit in…What’s the S stand for?”

*Ray Dillenger (Bear) quote: “Look, (Satoshi) was a construction made explicitly for the purpose of launching Bitcoin……That purpose is fulfilled.  The person who created (Satoshi) has no further need for him.  Thus ends the story”.

This is one of the most thrilling things (forget the future Bitcoin price!) for me, will he be found or reveal himself? God, I love mysteries.  
  
By the way, hello world! Just to introduce myself: I'm into Bitcoin since 2012, had the joy of being one of the late GPU miners. Never really been active on within the community. Mostly doing User Interface / User Experience works with round about 13-14 years of knowledge. :) Hope to have a good time here!

welcome sir...

Let's look at the horizontal view of user activity, not only the vertical list of missing spots. First 15 topics:
1 - ###
2 - ###
3 - ###
4 - ###
5 - Welcome to the new Bitcoin forum! - satoshi (someone lower on the thread asks where are threads 1-4...)
6 - Repost: Bitcoin Maturation - satoshi (as promised, first ported topic)
7 - Repost: Request: Make this anonymous?  - satoshi
8 - Repost: How anonymous are bitcoins?  - satoshi
9 - Repost: Linux/UNIX compile - satoshi
10 - [OLD THREAD] Bitcoin version 0.2 development status - satoshi
11 - ###
12 - A few suggestions - MadHatter (first legitimate discussion thread)
13 - Questions about Bitcoin - SmokeTooMuch
14 - Break on the supply's increase - xuO4k04c6Ng
15 - New Exchange Service: "BTC 2 PSC" - SmokeTooMuch

Some notes:
Sirius was one of the people that saw the original discussions: http://unbit.nl/2014/09/16/martti-malmi-on-bitcoin-and-identifi/
He made the forum, took over the website and probably threads 1-4. Maybe also user accounts in the first 10. Maybe we can ask him :)

All of this is boring, because you can get the early juicy stuff right here: http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/bitcoin-list/?viewmonth=200812

^ I don't ask those original guys(especially the ones first contacted by Satoshi) about this stuff anymore because their responses are all scripted. I can put their emails side by side and they say the same thing "word for word" *exactly* copy and paste style. So a lot of those guys are obviously part of the mystery. I won't show those emails here because they are personal emails and not public record like the ones we normally post.

From the original SF forums:

--
From: Satoshi Nakamoto <satoshi@vi...> - 2008-12-10 17:00:23
 Welcome to the Bitcoin mailing list!
--
[bitcoin-list] Bitcoin works with Wine / Ubuntu
From: Jeff Kane <kanegs@gm...> - 2009-01-30 02:39:29
 Just an FYI that Bitcoin 0.1.3 works fine on Ubuntu 8.10 running Wine 1.0.1
--
From: Satoshi Nakamoto <satoshi@vi...> - 2009-01-25 16:45:25
 From: Nicholas Bohm 2009-01-25 10:17
> I have had a couple of problems running bitcoin: is this an appropriate
> list for reporting them (with about 70kb of attachments)?

What's the problem you're having?

If you send me your debug.log file directly (best not to send attachments
to the list), I can take a look at what's happening.

Satoshi Nakamoto
bitcoin-help at vistomail dot com

--
From: Hal Finney <hal.finney@gm...> - 2009-01-10 19:13:18
Attachments: debug.log   
Hi Satoshi - I tried running bitcoin.exe from the 0.1.0 package, and
it crashed. I am running on an up to date version of XP, SP3. The
debug.log output is attached. There was also a file db.log but it was
empty.

--

From the debug log:
GetMyExternalIP() received [207.71.226.132] 207.71.226.132:8333
SENDING: NICK uCeSAaG6R9Qidrs
IRC :lem.freenode.net 353 uCeSAaG6R9Qidrs @ #bitcoin :uCeSAaG6R9Qidrs x93428606 @u4rfwoe8g3w5Tai
IRC :lem.freenode.net 352 uCeSAaG6R9Qidrs #bitcoin i=x9342860 gateway/tor/x-bacc5813d7825a9a irc.freenode.net x93428606 H :0  x93428606
GOT WHO: [x93428606]  IRC :lem.freenode.net 352 uCeSAaG6R9Qidrs #bitcoin n=u4rfwoe8 h-68-164-57-219.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net irc.freenode.net u4rfwoe8g3w5Tai H@ :0  u4rfwoe8g3w5Tai
IRC :u4rfwoe8g3w5Tai!n=u4rfwoe8@h-68-164-57-219.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)

There were 2 users already on the IRC channel that bitcoin used to bootstrap back in the day. One of them was an admin. But they were both using the same remote IP, it was either a Tor exit node, or Satoshi had two clients inside the channel...

This is quite interesting, they are talking about both BitCoin AND the early elements of Proof of Stake.

^ that blog comment from eddie has always fascinated me.....especially the "scarcity" comparison. I can see the evolution from Szabo's "nanobarter" comment section in 2007 between Szabo, Zooko and Jim McCoy leading to eddie's well thought comments on Szabo's "BitGold-Markets" in 2008. Note: The blogger Byrne's comments on "BitGold Markets" did help Szabo visualize something new and I'm sure enabled the "eddie" post to be maid.

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2007/06/nanobarter.html?m=1

http://web.archive.org/web/20070618142414/http://szabo.best.vwh.net/scarce.html

Note: this is the link for the eddie comment from the post above:
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2008/04/bit-gold-markets.html?m=1

Wouldn't it be funny if Satoshi Nakamoto turned out to be the real McCoy? http://www.oreilly.com/pub/au/115

You know I've thought that before..........Szabo and McCoy were in a pissing contest at that time also.
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2007/06/nanobarter.html?m=1

I guess that'll make us the Hatfields.  ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield%E2%80%93McCoy_feud

^ just think if "eddie" turned out to be McCoy.....he normally just posted "anonymous" until Nick would piss him off about MoJo and then he would use his true name....Nick never posted anything after the "eddie" post.....so maybe "eddie" is McCoy....and since Szabo never provoked him, he didn't reveal his true name.

Note: the "anonymous" comments turn out to be Jim McCoy once Szabo makes him mad enough to admit who he is:
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2007/06/nanobarter.html?m=1

Update: I don't think McCoy is Satoshi, but he may be "eddie" from the "BitGold-Markets" comment section.(Although it looks like Byrne's writing style)
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2008/04/bit-gold-markets.html?m=1
More eddie comments:
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2011/05/bitcoin-what-took-ye-so-long.html?m=1

Thanks, frickface  :), now I have to read the DonutLab White Paper: http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2005/HPL-2005-5.pdf

Edit: I quit reading at Donutbot. Maybe somebody else can make heads or tails outta it, for it's outside my element (no pun intended).

Looks like if Szabo does have a doppelganger, it most likely would be "eddie" or Jim McCoy....
Szabo: "(assuming Nakamoto is not really Finney or Dai). Only Finney (RPOW) and Nakamoto were motivated enough to actually implement such a scheme".

Note: BombaUcigasa's post really sums all this up. His summary is problably as close as we will ever get(the best conclusion from the available circumstantial evidence).....

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2008/04/bit-gold-markets.html?m=1
Szabo calls out to the cypherpunk types for help to finalize coding BitGold and run a test net a few months before the BiCoin white paper gets published online.
Note: Look at the "url" for the real date. The date was changed on the blog itself to look like it was published at a later date. Possibly to look released after the BitCoin white paper 10/31/2008 Halloween. http://nakamotoinstitute.org/bitcoin/

*Szabo’s post for assistance:
“Bitgold would greatly benefit from a demonstration, an experimental market (with e.g. a trusted third party substituted for the complex security that would be needed for a real system). Anybody want to help me code one up?”

1) Who do you think would have answered Szabo at that time?

2) Who would have also read Szabo's post and then race to implement BitCoin before Szabo could release BitGold?

Thanks to the Way Back Machine...

http://web.archive.org/web/20080518222139/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/

http://s12.postimg.org/726cxx3kt/bgm1.jpg

http://web.archive.org/web/20110715041625/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2008/04/bit-gold-markets.html

http://s17.postimg.org/tcy663nnj/bgm2.jpg

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/bitcoin/

http://s27.postimg.org/g6rgxhijn/ecs.jpg


And, for a reasonably low rate, you can have Satoshi Nakamoto speak at your next company BBQ.

After checking about a couple dozen articles, to date Bit gold markets was the ONLY one I've uncovered that Nick Szabo changed its original penning date.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080518222139/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/


Almost 6 years later...

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/03/profile-of-satoshi-nakamoto-creator-of-bitcoin.html

HAHAHAH wrong!

@ slaveforanunnak1

While we are still on the blog comments, here is a Szabo comment that made me realize a small difference of opinion between Szabo and Satoshi. It's about the use of the term Cryptocurrency.

*Satoshi used the term Cryptocurrency.
Quote from: satoshi on July 06, 2010, 06:32:35 PM
"Announcing version 0.3 of Bitcoin, the P2P cryptocurrency!"


*In 2011 Szabo still would not use the term Cryptocurrency.
Szabo Quote: from 2011
"And what's up with the term "cryptocurrency"? What is it supposed to mean? Cryptography is used to protect payments systems as radically different as credit cards, Chaumian digital cash, and Bitcoin. The term encourages the popular but profoundly naive view of Bitcoin as merely another form of digital cash."

Note: could be a misdirection by Szabo or maybe a sign of the doppelganger theory. It may not mean anything, just something I noticed.

Interesting. I'm starting to look more closely at Zooko

I'm gonna check your links now, but first, wtf is ctrl+f supposed to do?  I use vimperator to control my browser like vim.  I guess you're not using that?

Search. Tried to make it interesting for you guys.

It might need further translation, search = grep a regex

Probably something very simple on that, like ^FH^H^AHL$^BAB^HSAD -e -z -f "target"|TTY01 &

You must first find out "what" Zooko really is and who he is in league with.

This list may be a little old, but it still applies to this puzzle. Use it wisely.

TENTACLES and SNAKES.  A TENTACLE is an email address used by a real person for the purpose of concealing their identity from others. A SNAKE is a TENTACLE that is particularly wicked and evil and will lie and trick others into believing the TENTACLE is real. In words, the more consequential and malicious a TENTACLE, the more it is a SNAKE.

> The TRUE NAME of a person behind a tentacle is also called the MOTHER or the MONSTER. Some of the TRUE NAMES are BIG MACS and some are SMALL FRIES.

> A MEDUSA is the leader of all SMALL FRIES and BIG MACS, a wicked, evil incarnation of SATAN on the Internet. She is the originator and chief proseletyzer of the art, science, and religion of lies. MEDUSA has dozens of SNAKES all over the Internet, particularly in extremely sensitive areas such as Internet protocol development(e.g. mercantile or digital cash protocols), posting from public access sites and even `covers' and `front' sites, these are called POISON NEEDLES. Corrupt administrators are always either BIG MACS or SMALL FRIES. Some sites have administrators who are unaware orapathetic toward infiltrations, these are called PAWNS.

> Anyone who knows about a tentacle or other CONSPIRACY, an `insider', is called TAINTED. People who don't know are called CLEAN. Some CLEAN and BYSTANDERS are particularly NAIVE and believe everything that BIG MACS and MEDUSA says, they are called BRAINWASHED. The ones that defend BIG MACS and MEDUSA are called BLIND. Those that simply don't care are called BRAIN DEAD.

> When MEDUSA infiltrates many sites and spews extremely dangerous disinformation and propaganda, this is called SABOTAGE. Telling people to go somewhere else and dominating conversations with irrelevant topics is called STRANGLING or GANG RAPE. Stealing sensitive information from others is called ESPIONAGE. Sabotage, strangling, espionage, and other types of cyberterrorism are called POISON. MEDUSA hides her activities beneath the various phrases PRIVACY FOR THE MASSES, the CRYPTOGRAPHIC REVOLUTION, and CRYPTOANARCHY in respectable media outlets like Wired and the New York Times. Sometimes this is accomplished by fooling reporters, but note that not all reporters are CLEAN, and bribery may be possible.

> MEDUSA is the orchestrator of a MASSIVE INTERNATIONAL CONSPIRACY to STRANGLE, SABOTAGE, and POISON THE INTERNET. Anyone who can drive MEDUSA and all the corrupt BIG MACS from Cyberspace and from the real world forever is called THE SAVIOR and said to have DRIVEN THE PHARISEES FROM THE TEMPLE.

Beware of reading too much into an old post that was hilariously funny because everyone knew how wrong it was. The associations given may have been sending up some of the personalities by accusing them of being sock puppets of their frequent sparring partners.

As I say it's mostly useful as a left handed who's who of cryptoanarchist type thought and notorious usenet duellists.

I can maybe get hold of one of the personalities named for a bit of cultural perspective if necessary.

Surely this is not the real L. Detweiler.

http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html


LD Admits he is S.Boxx (oops!) (http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/11/msg00563.html)


http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/11/msg00582.html


What are the chances of some Satoshi Nakamoto being mentioned in "Encyclopedic Dictionary of Mathematics"?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/05/19/ted-nelson-says-that-bitcons-satoshi-nakamoto-is-shinichi-mochizuki/


That would surely explain away May's purchase.

The thing with Zooko always comes back to money, or lack of it. He has several projects he is trying to get going but doesn't have the funds. He really cares about the new science he is into and I think if he had the coins, he would definitely be using them.

That's why I'm thinking he may have been the coder only. He was definitely posting about BitCoin on January 26 2009. He had the time to do the work. He knew the right people. He lived and worked in that circle.

Note: Where was Jim McCoy located in 2008-2009? Still in Texas?

Szabo also seemed to be mentoring that young Blogger Byrne during the Times we have been looking at. In fact Szabo's call for help was in a response to Byrne's post.

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2008/04/bit-gold-markets.html?m=1

http://www.byrnehobart.com/blog/

http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/000571.html (with apologies for quoting all, found while on the hunt to address what's asked of us quoted above)


http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/000572.html

^^^Ironically, Steve Schear (https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenschear) mentions Jeb McCaleb's eDonkey. The same Jeb McCaleb who founded Mt Gox.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenschear


"Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow was a startup company founded by Jim McCoy et al. to create MojoNation. After several years, the company ran out of money and laid off most of its employees; Bram Cohen went on to create BitTorrent and Zooko created Mnet out of MojoNation’s source code. The company’s name comes from the game Illuminati by Steve Jackson Games."

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=385302


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=385324

eCache : Anonymous Digital Bearer Certificates: http://web.archive.org/web/20070629165051/https://ffij33ewbnoeqnup.onion.meshmx.com/doc.php

http://web.archive.org/web/20070629165430/https://ffij33ewbnoeqnup.onion.meshmx.com/readme.php


http://www.fact-index.com/y/yo/yodelbank.html


DMT was borne out of James Ray Houston and Sonny Vleisides' Laissez Faire City via James Orlin Grabbe (JOG).

He's trying to solve the problem of network access.

I don't understand why he thinks networks need to be redesigned with a Turing-complete block chain. You still need to trust the person that installs it.

Then I realized he is trying to redefine proof of work by creating tokens based on network access.Then I see he takes it back a notch and calls for limited use cases. Why not just stamp documents with Bitcoin?

I think there is a fundamental disagreement about the nature of work. There is a lot of development around PoS and its subset Proof of Existence as if Existence is some sort of compromise between stake and work. The cypherpunks are great with their privacy issues, but there is also a movement of ecopunks. Maybe some folks see the sun as a big waste of energy, but it's the thing that gives us life.

Hashing sha256 may seem like a trivial task, but if you look at the process rather than the product it makes sense. Hashing is done by the ones with the cheapest energy or the most efficient circuits.

Proving ownership is the foundation of fraud. Whether it's wealth or network resources, without provable really hard work there will be ways to spoof the system.

Now I'm not saying converting electricity to heat is the best way to show value. There are many resources to back currency. In the past we learned to smelt. We created money from that. Then we learned to print. We created money with that. Electricity is just how we currently make our existence. Future technologies will allow us to do things far more interesting than electronics and we'll be able to create value from that fundamental technology. I suspect quantum teleportation or entanglement may create the new money. Money is hard to make but easy to verify. It's a one way function. We should stay away from overly complex systems of financialization and computer networking can be made excessively complex. It's better to allow simple systems to interact and create emergent complexity.

I came across this that was quite interesting written by Nick Szabo and provides a few more clues to the puzzle. He talks about the Cyberpunks as a small group working on traceless digital cash. Some of the references to pseudospoofing or use of sock puppet accounts still holds true today.

Who......
I had never put the beginning of Wei Dai’s “bmoney” paper to much thought until it was brought to my attention by a software designer named Oleg Andreev. This information seems to be the “key” that Satoshi left for us to unlock the puzzle.

The first credit to Bitcoin in the white paper was a citation for Wei Dai’s “bmoney”.

The first paragraph of “bmoney”: (read carefully)

“I am fascinated by Tim May’s crypto-anarchy. Unlike the communities traditionally associated with the word “anarchy”, in a crypto-anarchy the government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and permanently unnecessary. It’s a community where the threat of violence is impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical locations”. ~Wei Dai

Why......
The Internet and Bitcoin were created to allow people to solve social problems in a novel way: Instead of the ancient formula of “the strongest wins and then beats the crap out of the loser” we all can achieve a peaceful society where both rich and poor, strong and weak can protect their property and freedom on more equal grounds without relying on violent institutions like governments.

Why anonymous?
Tim May: “Anyone contemplating building such a system, or entity, or cybercorporation, should think long and hard about the wisdom of ever having an identifiable nexus of attack. Money must be collected in untraceable ways. This is what I meant about it being time to rethink the theory of the corporation.”

"Where once a corporation existed to both protect the rights of shareholders (against lawsuits and partners having to pay for losses) and to enable the group participation of many workers, corporations for the things Cypherpunks think are interesting is just a bad idea. And given the growing trend toward trying to prosecute the V.P of Yahoo-Europe because some bit of Nazi history was sold to some German citizen, etc., corporations are becoming a liability in cyberspace”.

"The answer is to vanish into cyberspace. Not an easy task, maybe, given the state of today’s tools, but the long term trend".

Summary......
Bitcoin is the exact implementation of the system envisioned by Tim C. May, Wei Dai, Nick Szabo, Hal Finney and Zooko. The only requirement is for transacting parties to remain anonymous. If there’s no trace to physical persons, there is no place for the violent intervention and thus the contracts can only be enforced according to the voluntarily agreed-upon rules between the parties. Bitcoin allows encoding these rules right in the transactions so they are automatically enforced by the whole network.

Tim May, Szabo, Hal, Alan Back, Jim McCoy, Zooko.....they all have a part in this.

*Ray Dillenger (Bear) quote: “Look, (Satoshi) was a construction made explicitly for the purpose of launching Bitcoin……That purpose is fulfilled.  The person who created (Satoshi) has no further need for him.  Thus ends the story”.

Note: it seems BitCoin was mostly created in the comment sections of the "Nanobarter", "BitGold" & "BitGold-Markets" papers. What happened in private emails and Meet-ups may never be known. Szabo & Zooko or maybe Jim McCoy? We may never know. IMHO...Szabo and Hal made all this possible in one way or another. They had dedicated their lives since at least 1993 to bring an anonymous digital currency to us.

wait, i think you are mixing up cyberpunks and Cypherpunks

I think this is pretty spot on, all information points to Nick Szabo having one of the largest roles as he worked on the idea. Jim McCoy and Szabo are the closest personalities to the Satoshi Pseudoname. I remember someone saying before that when working with Satoshi that if you got him angry, he would just call you an idiot and never speak to you again. This clue comes closer to Nick and Jim McCoy's battle where Nick forced out Jim's identity by prodding him a bit.

Another reason to lay low...

http://www.wired.com/2014/12/finney-swat/ (http://www.wired.com/2014/12/finney-swat/)

I know, i feel bad now for even starting this thread again. God damn it is so interesting though.

I know exactly what you mean.  I think we will find out sooner or later, either because someone will want to use Satoshi's coins or if the founders think that such a large concentration of btc in unknown hands has become a larger market issue.  I've read a lot of Szabo's posts and he seems like the kind of person who couldn't pass up the opportunity to use that level of wealth to attempt big things (private robotic space exploration, etc) like an Elon Musk type.

As much as the scum who pull these life-threatening "pranks" piss me off, the real problem is we have a hyper-militarized police that acts like an occupying army and treats normal citizens as the enemy.  They're ready to go full Rambo at the drop of a hat, and even a 12 year old calling with a flagrantly bogus swatting gets their own personal army from these steroid-riddled buffoons.

I do believe in monsters...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXODzzagzCw

Great thread. But who is "Nick Szabo"?( that's a lot of "aka's" listed there )

Andrew N Szabo, ~48
Madison, WI
Known also: Andrew Nicholas Szabo · Alexander Szabo · Andrew A Szabo · Andrew E Szabo · Alexander Azabo · Nicholas Szabo

Lived in: Madison, WI · Providence, RI · Cupertino, CA · Somerville, MA · Etna, NH

Related to: Andreas Kammer ~42 · Nicholas Szabo ~84 · Alexander Szabo ~52 · Marcia Szabo ~82 · Douglas Kammer ~69

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Szabo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto

You forgot his brother, Frank, the rabbit breeder in Ohio.

That link had me going in circles last year. I finally gave up on trying to decode it? What is your view of its meaning? Why would Nick(Mr. Secret Mystery about himself) have a link with his brothers address in the middle of nowhere on it?
http://web.archive.org/web/20070209042638/http://mysite.verizon.net/resp9fau/index.html

Note: there was also a comment on one of his blogs claiming to be another of Nicks brothers. Nick actually confirmed it in the following post. Nick was talking about the origin of the name Szabo and his brother was talking about their dad or something. I can't find it right now, but I'll keep looking.

Update: Found it. Paul Szabo...http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2006/10/fifty-years-ago-today.html?m=1

Nick Szabo on learning from the Japanese

http://cd.textfiles.com/spaceandast/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V13_5/V13_500.TXT

Date: 27 Apr 91 06:41:23 GMT
From: unisoft!fai!sequent!crg5!szabo@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Nick Szabo)
Subject: Learning from Japan

In article <DLBRES10.91Apr24103238@pc.usl.edu> dlbres10@pc.usl.edu (Fraering Philip) writes:

[An excellent article on U.S. competitiveness]

Well said.  I would only add that if we are going to mimic the
Japanese, we should learn from them the way they learned from the
Western world after the Meiji Restoration.  The Japanese sent out
observers to the most advanced parts of the most advanced Western
countries, making lists ranking political, educational, and
technological structures in order from best to worst.  Fit with
Japanese culture was also considered.  Everything below "ichiban" --
the number one ranking -- was discarded, and the best examples of
each component of modern civilization in all of the West were implemented
over the remains of feudal Japan.  

Now that Japan is equal with us -- better in some areas, worse in
others -- we need a similar process to learn from Japan -- that is,
go over and pick out the _best_ of what they do, that also fits our
own culture.  Honda, not Mitsubishi; Japanese work ethic, not
Japanese group-think ethic; just-in-time manufacturing, not
university-level scientific research; technical education, not language
education.

In the space arena, the Japanese have things to teach us in
several areas -- minitiarization, automation, efficiency,
and the scaling of technology to the market.  They also have an
extensive project in comet and asteroid research, including sky
surveys and manned asteroid sample return missions to Antartica.  
On the other hand, the country as a whole is way behind in the overall
skill level, attention, and funding levels devoted to space.  This gives
us a big advantage.  Let's combine their best with our best to produce a
winner.


--
Nick Szabo                              szabo@sequent.com

And learning Japanese:

"Au contrair!  Tongue twisters, palindromes, etc. are very good and fun
for practicing my Nihongo and when I get them right, it gets my confidence
up!  Can we have more please?"

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang.japan/JYgfT8jNqw0 (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.lang.japan/JYgfT8jNqw0)

Being a native Madisonian myself and only a little older than Nick, I've always been amazed at the superficial similarity in idioms and thought structure that goes into Satoshi Nakamotos writing as my own, especially his politics. I know this is anecdotal and I'm not interested in exposing anyone, but it was an amazing place and time to grow up for free thinkers and many came from there, "That 70s Show" notwithstanding.

It is a nice observation and many people have claimed Nick to be Satoshi in past, but it will take more than a word/phrase to come to any concrete conclusion here.

Not that easy. It may just intensify the already-believers.

One must not assume anything without concrete evidence, this Nick Szabo is a very prominent thinker though and I enjoy reading the things he's posted about.

One thing that runs though my mind from time to time is that possibly whoever created Satoshi, may have also been the creator of NXT. Maybe I am mistaken but didn't the creator of NXT also disappear into the outer reaches as well?

If Satoshi was still around for some time after leaving Bitcoin, I don't think he could keep away and it could be where he's been a part of a few different Cryptocurrencies under anonymous pseudonames.

MIT gets all the good stuff. Second, all the current alumni get bitcoins. First, http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm

Along with...

4. David Chaum, Amos Fiat, and Moni Naor, Untraceable Electronic Cash, Advances in Cryptology CRYPTO '88, Springer-Verlag, pp. 319-327.

What are the odds of David being chums with a guy named Fiat and another named Moni?

Interesting thread indeed. I'd say all of the above + those still aflame & the countless unnamed.   ;D

~ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=358790.msg8484376#msg8484376

Anyone that can help find this - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=358790.msg3839053#msg3839053  ?

Anway, lots of really fantasic stuff here for the history books. I also found back tracking from sources such as the Free Haven papers and projects were really interesting in terms of MIT etc.

@ slaveforanunnak1

I thought we were looking for a "c++" programmer like Zooko, but it seems we are looking for a "c" programer(like Hal) trying to make the protocol work in an unfamiliar code of "c++".

Where does the "usual suspects" fit in here?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=146383;sa=showPosts;start=60

Quotes from Cryddit (aka Ray Dillinger "Bear" original cypherpunk-mentored by Tim C. May himself)

"Speaking as someone who reviewed some of his code in late 2008, I think I can express a pretty strong opinion that it was probably written by one person."

"Every coder has his or her "fist" -- a set of quirks of indentation, delimiter placement, commenting style and placement, use of/familiarity with libraries, thinking style, and etc...  A lot of companies try to enforce a "standard style" but they never completely eradicate all bits'n'pieces of individual style."  

"The early bitcoin sources had no identifiable influences of any "company style."  

"The author clearly did not trust himself to manage c++'s notoriously finicky memory issues and completely defend against buffer attacks, so he made heavy use of STL and Boost to do that - at times going through contortions specifically to avoid having raw buffers anywhere.  He was very clearly a C programmer before he was a C++ programmer, judging by his iteration style.  And his placement of opening and closing braces around blocks of code and indentation relative to those braces was kind of a minority choice -- not strange enough to be peculiar, but unusual enough that it would be surprising if a project written by multiple people used it completely consistently.   The earliest code also uses no 'tab' characters, which tends to indicate that the files were written in the same editor or with the same editor macros - again not peculiar in itself, but it would be unusual for it to be completely consistent in a project by more than one person."

"As for comments, he rarely used one word where none would do.    His comments were mostly limited to notes to himself to do stuff later or resolve design issues, not explanations. In itself, not unusual, but again, you wouldn't find it completely consistent across a project by multiple people."

"I should clarify this last.  What I mean is that people who are coding as part of a team usually use comments to explain the code they're writing to the other members of the team.  So-called "lone wolf" programmers making something all by themselves usually are in the habit of not needing to explain anything to anyone so they don't."

"Now that I think of it, we did talk about the floating point format in that discussion.  8-decimal divisibility was the maximum Satoshi would consider, for that reason (although he was a fanatic about doing everything with unsigned integers).   Hal's point about the smallest division being less than a penny, and that being possible even if the whole world's money supply were denominated in Bitcoin, meant no extraordinary measures were necessary."  

"One thing I learned, was that in C, numeric overflow is undefined behavior on signed integers, and some compilers (notably gcc, which Satoshi was using) will even eliminate overflow checks, and then drop any error handlers or commands to output debug messages as dead code.  Which is a reason why Satoshi was such a fanatic about using unsigned integers everywhere."

"Both Hal and Satoshi preferred FORTH because it had the simplest (easiest to verify correct/secure) implementation of any useful scripting language."

"Look, "Satoshi" was a construction made explicitly for the purpose of launching Bitcoin."

"That purpose is fulfilled.  The person who created "Satoshi" has no further need for him.  Thus ends the story."

"He *was* just about ready to post the code.  This was a debate about what value an already-defined constant ought to have.  In fact I've already posted an archive of his code from just a few *days* later in another thread here for historical interest."

"Hal and I were essentially giving it a last-minute looking over to see if we thought there was any way to attack it."

*"I have the impression that Hal communicated with Satoshi a lot more than I did, but he was looking at a  much tougher problem."

"The blockchain structure is essentially a mathematical proof -- very straightforward, you follow it and you can say with reasonable certainty that it's right or not.  But a scripting language is generative.  And generative structures present exponentially more attack surfaces."

"I remember this discussion, actually."

"Finney, Satoshi, and I discussed how divisible a Bitcoin ought to be.  Satoshi had already more or less decided on a 50-coin per block payout with halving every so often to add up to a 21M coin supply.  Finney made the point that people should never need any currency division smaller than a US penny, and then somebody (I forget who) consulted some oracle somewhere like maybe Wikipedia and figured out what the entire world's M1 money supply at that time was."

"We debated for a while about which measure of money Bitcoin most closely approximated; but M2, M3, and so on are all for debt-based currencies, so I agreed with Finney that M1 was probably the best measure."

"21Million, times 10^8 subdivisions, meant that even if the whole word's money supply were replaced by the 21 million bitcoins the smallest unit (we weren't calling them Satoshis yet)  would still be worth a bit less than a penny, so no matter what happened -- even if the entire economy of planet earth were measured in Bitcoin -- it would never inconvenience people by being too large a unit for convenience."


Note: Hal's "RPOW" is used to solve the Byzantine General’s Problem, a problem in ordinary computing that demonstrates through “game theory” how a group of potential co-operators can come to THE BEST CONSENSUS (Nakamoto Consensus) even with the possibility of having malicious operators among them.
http://cryptome.org/rpow.htm

Szabo: "Only Finney (RPOW) and Nakamoto were motivated enough to actually implement such a scheme”.

*Szabo’s relationship with Finney provides a link between Satoshi Nakamoto and Nick Szabo.  Both had a relationship with Hal Finney.  Had Satoshi been someone other than Szabo, it’s very unlikely that they would also have had a trusting relationship with Finney, and even less likely that Finney would be willing to help someone who stole his friend Nick Szabo’s idea.

So we know that Nick Szabo has known Hal Finney since 1993, and we know that “Satoshi Nakamoto” trusted Finney as the recipient of the first ever Bitcoin transaction. We also know that Nick Szabo laid the blueprints for a system identical to bitcoin in 2005, with a name quite similar to bitcoin, and asked someone to help him code it in 2008, 7 months before Bitcoin was announced.

We also know BitCoin was mostly created in the comment sections of the "Nanobarter", "BitGold" & "BitGold-Markets" papers. What happened in private emails and Meet-ups may never be known.

"a crucial event in fighting totalitarianism: rebels took control of a radio station from the communist media monopoly and redubbed it "Magyar Szabad Radio" (Hungarian Free Radio)"

I remember that post. A few posts down on that one page thread, this...

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4193/1738/400/1956RadioStation.jpg http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/3432588-12th-november-1956-outside-a-building-with-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QEdbzrgJdkgS%2bWTxqEi17%2bAeffsANl4XrmO2XIZQD3gS1xMYVAXt33cmOMgknZm%2f4w%3d%3d

(image on right gleaned from http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/outside-a-building-with-shrapnel-pocked-walls-and-glassless-news-photo/3432588)

You telling me that Szabo loosely translates to free?

EDIT: It does, for I just scrolled to the comments.

I also found this:


If you've seen the news today about NK, and already aware about recent events in Cuba, I'd say it's time to spin a certain Dylan 45 right about now.

First tweets about BitCoin...

http://bitshare.cm/post/81688966676/some-of-the-very-first-tweets-about-bitcoin

http://www.harderfuneralhome.com/obituary/Paul-Frank-Szabo/Brookfield-WI/956225

http://s8.postimg.org/l9le3l1xh/image.jpg


http://www.gmtoday.com/obits/freeman/obits/2012/September/04/01.htm

Allow me to tackle this post from another angle.

I'm not sure what I'm saying anymore, all I know is that this is a very fun rabbit hole.

I like how he used the tentacle accusation (from over ten years earlier?) as an endorsement in his profile  ;D

Well, at least they are real people. Both are Israeli cryptographers

so many flippin nick szabos
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Nick/Szabo

Looks like this one is the only one with the right ties...the Cupertino, CA connection and all the aka's.(u are right Nick Szabo is everywhere, except nowhere in person around any of his work)

https://m.radaris.com/~Andrew-Szabo/178052517

Back in the day Szabo was supposed to live with Dale Geoff and Romana Machado in Cupertino, Ca. That's the Cypherpunks email answers to the mystery about Szabo being a real person.

Note: if Szabo is a pseudonym(it's been questioned since 1993)...... who's the true name?  T.C. May?  E. Hughes?  J. Nash?

I forgot to include this earlier.....

Szabo talking BitGold and Asic type chips for mining in 1999......

http://szabo.best.vwh.net/intrapoly.html

"Another is that, unless the opponent has a very low budget and is thus limited to standard personal computers, it does not make sense to analyze the security or cost of these schemes without reference to machine architecture. For example, spammers may be able to defeat compute-cost postage by using (((custom chips optimized for computing the particular puzzle function)))."

http://www.tanyapretorius.co.za/content/computers/extropians/extropians.html

We're in Romana's new ranch-style rental home, which is tucked away in a Sunnyvale cul de sac. Romana, her companion Geoff Dale, and Dave Krieger--Silicon Valley's Extropian celebs, hotly sought of late by magazine and newspaper reporters--have just moved in together. They call their digs the "Exclave," but its furnishings are downright suburban-normal--no hat box-size ice chests or exotic computer gear cluttering up the Macy's living room set. Previously, Romana ran an "Extropian boarding house" in Cupertino (not to be confused with a commune, a concept that free-market libertarian Extropians consider anathema).

Max More proposes instead a virtual New World, in cyberspace, as a more realistic escape from the bureaucratic hassles of "The Man." In such a Cybertopia, "we'll have things like digital money, which the government can't trace or tax," he gleefully prophesies.

http://www.ipaloalto.com/pdf/Daily_071508_council_approves.pdf
2008 Palo Alto
Geoff Dale, vice president of engineering at Neapolitan Networks, one of the city's dark fiber customers

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2011/10/04/page-mill-road-development-hits-another-snag
2011 Palo Alto
Geoff Dale, who lives in the area, praised the building's design and said the development would "bring jobs and economic activity when we need it most here in Palo Alto."

My money is on Chaum.

Another possible Japan connection with fellow Extropian Russell E. Whitaker

email address in
whitaker@asiapac.com

http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.96/1317.html
Re: Ghost in the "Shell" (not Machine): see it if you can
Geoff Dale (geoff1@home.net)
Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:24:47 -0400

    Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]
    Next message: QueeneMUSE@aol.com: "Re: Superset <=> subset"
    Previous message: Geoff Dale: "URL Update: (was Re: Ghost in the Machine: see it if you can)"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I second the recommendation.

A truly interesting film. When I saw it with Romana (it played at the San
Jose Towne Theater for awhile), she gasped at one scene and exclaimed,
"That's the best popular explanation of the information theory of personal
identity I've seen!"

I have the (english-dubbed) video tape (Manga Video), and could arrange a
screening on my new 35" TV. I also have the English-translated manga and
Russell Whitaker recently gifted me with the Japanese language version
(with a few extra near x-rated panels, wahoo!).

Links for this message:
<A HREF="http://www.fqa.com/romana"> Romana Machado </A>
<A HREF="http://www.asiapac.com/"> Russell Whitaker </A>
<A HREF="http://www.manga.com/"> Manga Video </A>

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Dale - geoff1@home.net
Paraphrasing Larry Niven:
-- Just think of it as economics in action --
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBMkwdVv1Xc5SjvRJ5AQEqKgP/Z0JXhgKgexRSISahSj+1xiVD2sPDGWiC
8pGzVsHOWJqqi6dEViSTJv1Jqu7BsnUF6xQL2940Qx+mWKManafqGAsLygELWJ1q
MKP7SZ8ffXoOW3n+ZcsVmJWk9BTLVKS46v+4/19TPAzNd+j/4VQUaWHzZJ5guT5T
uqCSQDaJ6mU=
=fWZh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


http://www.kutaki.org/modules/profile/userinfo.php?uid=253
RussellWhitaker whitaker@survivalarts.com
Personal
Real Name    Russell Whitaker
Location    Calvadan region, USA
Time Zone    (GMT-8:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada)
Occupation    Software engineer
Interest    Bujinkan, firearms, life extension, linguistics, programming
Member Since    2003/2/24 15:06
Community
Website    http://www.survivalarts.com/
Comments/Posts    4
Rank    Just Passing Through
Just Passing Through
Last Login    2003/2/27 17:35
Signature    Russell Whitaker
Survival Arts
Asia Pacific Information Systems

You can dig up Romana on google plus. Don't use that and don't have an "in" with her.

I'm pretty sure that Satoshi was not Hal Finny or S.Boxx. Nick Szabo seems to be the one that comes up the most, I wonder if he knows.

Going further down this rabbit hole...

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/12/03/159254/is-gwu-econ-prof-nick-szabo-satoshi-nakamoto

Damn you! We're now back to South Park and the NSA: http://web.archive.org/web/20021201032300/http://www.survivalarts.com/


http://s12.postimg.org/8e1mx2qgd/nsa.jpg
"Dude, aren't those letters supposed to be readable via a rear-view mirror?"

http://web.archive.org/web/20021207225041/http://www.survivalarts.com/archives/000084.html


Patri Friedman's father is Milton Friedman.

For the first time I think that you, guys, really found satoshi :)

Halloween '96 at the Exclave
(My Three Nuns)
Romana Machado
probably with unidentified Extropians Dave Krieger and Geoff Dale
https://web.archive.org/web/19970222090111/http://www.fqa.com/romana/romanapix/threenuns.jpg

https://web.archive.org/web/19970222090111/http://www.fqa.com/romana/romanapix/stogie.jpg

The new wealthy elite ::)

Extropian Russell Whitaker worked in Japan in 2000.  He had ties to Nick Szabo, Hal Finney and several others.  Russell Whitaker may have been the inspiration or source of the name Satoshi Nakamoto.

http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.1Q00/4367.html

JOBS: Tokyo ISP, Oracle dev/dba
From: Russell Whitaker (russell@interq.or.jp)
Date: Tue Mar 07 2000 - 23:53:21 MST

    Next message: Paul Hughes: "Re: ECON: Eliezer's calls"
    Previous message: Doug Jones: "Re: Towers to the stars"
    Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Hi friends and extropians who are not yet friends...

I'm looking for a couple of senior Oracle people to come
work on my team at our offices in Tokyo's Shibuya district:

1.) one senior Oracle developer, strong C/Java programmer with a good
grasp of system issues (not "exposure" to Oracle), and
2.) one strong Oracle8 dba, proficiency in unix sysadmin desirable

This is perm, not contract. You need Japanese proficiency. Life
will be hard without it. This is a Japanese company, not an
American company with primarily expat staff.

However, you needn't be expert at the time of interview: just
prove to me you can handle everyday conversation and reading/writing,
and if you're otherwise a fit for the job, we'll pay for further
language training.

Other requirements:
- a sense of adventure
- a sense of humor
- a desire to change the world

See this week's Business Week (6 March 2000), cover story
"Japan's Net Builders". We're one of the four major infrastructure
companies listed on page 21, market cap US$ 7.7 billion
(JASDAQ code 9449).

Email me if you're interested, and I'll send more details.

Thanks,
Ad astra,
Russell

--
Russell Whitaker                interQ, Inc. - System Division
Development Team Leader         Tokyo, Japan
russell@interq.or.jp            http://www.interq.or.jp/

------------------------------------------------------------
http://marc.info/?l=cypherpunks&m=85281708903558&w=2

List:       cypherpunks
Subject:    Party with the Nextropians! at Nexus-Lite!
From:       plaz () netcom ! com (Geoff Dale)
Date:       1994-02-26 21:40:48
[Download message RAW]

         MEET THE NEXTROPIANS: WE ARE HERE AND NOW AMONG YOU
__________________________________________________________________________
Romana Machado - Geoff Dale - David Gordon - Nick Szabo - Russell Whitaker

um,  i think they mean bit-gold. Anyway, Im so confused now.

For the person earlier seeking a list of candidates, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk#Cypherpunk_mailing_list

---

http://blog.bitcoinfoundation.org/welcome-sergio-lerner/ (http://blog.bitcoinfoundation.org/welcome-sergio-lerner/)

---

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113097/meet-the-bitcoin-foundations-newest-core-security-auditor-sergio-demian-lerner (http://cointelegraph.com/news/113097/meet-the-bitcoin-foundations-newest-core-security-auditor-sergio-demian-lerner)

---

http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-dawn-of-trustworthy-computing.html (http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-dawn-of-trustworthy-computing.html)

---

December 17, 2014:  

https://i.imgur.com/cqxD6M3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7Nsr6Ql.jpg
https://twitter.com/ummjackson/status/545329709685288960 (https://twitter.com/ummjackson/status/545329709685288960)

Another article in that issue: Telecoms and Banks Tie the Knot (int'l edition): They're rushing to make online banking a reality (http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_10/b3671074.htm)

yup he is the most likely person to be satoshi nakamoto.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/fj.life.in-japan/tRWXfEWD7k4


Give me a second to see if I can find any Bitcoin entity in Shibuya, Japan.

I bet I can change your mind to think it's Russell Whitaker: http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.1Q00/4367.html


http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_10/b3671074.htm


http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=9133487&ticker=9449:JP


http://www.coindesk.com/bitflyer-gmo-48000-online-stores-japan/


http://forexmagnates.com/gmo-internet-reveals-re-branding-plans-z-com-coming-soon/


To paraphrase...

"I see, said the blind man pissing his earlier mined bitcoins into the wind. It all comes back to me now."

Why are we helping the gubbamit to catch Satoshi? Do you want him in a NY state prison?

We're not, we're just goading Gleb into muddying the waters so badly that they'll have 5 times as much trouble rooting him out :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Flashmancover.jpg

Upon further review, I now have reasons to believe...  :P

Yup, that's me, your typical Victorian rogue.

And, following up on that clue, I uncovered the device that mined the Genesis Block:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W1GKJlqg98k/Tgh05cb_wSI/AAAAAAAAACo/F35L1Fwql5c/s1600/bitcoin_mining_pc.jpg

Note, the Oriental/Persian carpet in Flashman-cum-Satoshi's living room.

Ok, i'll have to incorporate  Russell Whitaker to my bitcoin rap song

http://sfx.io/QNfAi

:P

my jaw dropping this thread still alive

Michael Weber - (Mystery internet security guru)(the Japan connection)
http://www.businessinsider.com/swiss-software-developer-bitcoin-2014-4

The WHOIS domain records for Bitcoin.org show the site was first registered in 2008 to "Anonymousspeech LLC," a company dedicated to providing anonymous email and web surfing services to customers. In a recent email to BI, Martti Malmi, a developer who is one of Nakamoto's earliest confirmed collaborators, told Business Insider that Bitcoin.org was "originally created by Satoshi."  

Though his name did not appear on the Bitcoin.org registration, there is substantial information indicating Weber has played a key role in "AnonymousSpeech LLC."

AnonymousSpeech.com, the website associated with that company, shows it is dedicated to providing anonymous email and web surfing services to customers. An archived description on the site from 2007 said the company "specializes in international law and IT security consulting" and had been "based in Tokyo, Japan since 1996." By 2009, the AnonymousSpeech.com site indicated the company was "located in Switzerland" and, as a result, "governed by Swiss law and allowed to delete customer data legally from its servers."

In 2007, AnonymousSpeech advertised the ability to accept bank transfer payments to a Swiss bank account identified as belonging to "Mike Weber." The company also took payments via "E-Gold" a service that allowed anonymous, digital transfer of gold ownership between users. By 2008, AnonymousSpeech was also taking payments via Bank Weber, which is billed on its website as a "Swiss Internet Bank." According to WHOIS records, Bank Weber's homepage was first registered to a Michael Weber at a residential address in Tokyo in 2007.

By late 2010, AnonymousSpeech was accepting payments via Bank Weber, E-Gold, Weber's Swiss Bank account, and Western Union. Customers who opted for Western Union payments were instructed to send them to "Michael Niklaus Weber" in Mexico City. In March 2013, a note on the site indicated it no longer accepted "payments from E-Gold." However, by the end of the year, AnonymousSpeech featured a banner boasting "We Accept Bitcoin."

In addition to AnonymousSpeech and Bank Weber, records show a second connection between Weber and Nakamoto.

(((((((Bank Weber was registered in Weber’s name with the street address of "Sakura House," a real estate agency in Tokyo specializing in shared accommodations for foreigners. The same Sakura House address was used to register Bitcoin.org. The registration for the Bank Weber site also included an email, wwwmichi@gmx.ch, which is connected to records for at least 19 other domains.)))))))

One of those domains is Vistomail.com, which is registered to:

-Michael Weber, as well as weber's wwwmichi@gmx.ch email

-AnonymousSpeech's Sakura House street address

-An additional Tokyo address used for some of Weber's other sites.

Nakamoto used a Vistomail account, satoshi@vistomail.com, to make forum posts and to communicate with the developers who helped build the Bitcoin code. Nakamoto's other known email — the one he included on his Bitcoin manifesto — is satoshin@gmx.com, which uses the same free email provider apparently favored by Weber.

So many things in Tokyo...

So I guess we are back to this....anybody read over it yet?

ObCrytp Note: Just got the English translation in paperback of the
Japanese-published "Encyclopedic Dictionary of Mathematics," a large
2-volume set with detailed articles on many branches of math. If the
math talked about in crypto is sometimes obscure to you, check this
out. The cost is $59, a real bargain these days.

--Tim May

Michael Weber

He also described himself as a Swiss software developer living in Japan

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/swiss-software-developer-bitcoin-2014-4#ixzz3Oe4BCe8d


http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5329f94a6da81164728b4567-480-/15062011062.jpg

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5329f9b36da811f8728b4567-180-275/profilepicturebig.jpg

It's fun but he could just imitate Satoshi and he is not the only one to use block chain. We would need more than one of these to start thinking he is satoshi.