Bitcoin Forum

This is continued from this thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88968.0
This is my service thread, My BTC for your MoneyPak - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84924.0

I just got off the phone from a rep and they concluded that even though I have done dozens upon dozens of transfers without complaints, that because of ONE SINGLE person disputing a $100 reload that apparently I'm the fraudster and need to provide every single receipt for all MoneyPak reload transactions in the past month and if I cannot, the remaining balance will remain locked without any appeal.

What?!!?!?

They basically just said "yeah your money is ours now sucker".

What kind of bullshit is this? I'm so raged right now.  >:(

Time to lawyer up or contact a consumer rights service.

Agreed. If you brought it to a court they would probably just decide to give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not like its one of their larger accounts that they should worry about.

How would I go about doing this? Would I actually need a lawyer? I have around $1000 stuck on the card so wouldn't it be pointless with the money I'd have to spend?

I've never been in a situation where I needed to take anyone to court and I always figured it would never be worth it.. But man I really want to do it for the principal of that matter too.. This is just bullshit.

Create the receipts and back-date them. Then you can provide them as requested. It will be much cheaper than a lawyer. $1k is too much to let go.

I'm not sure what your saying here? They want EVERY receipt and even if I was able to get a hold of every single person I've traded with, I highly doubt any of them decided to keep the receipt, and I would need ALL of them to have the receipt.

He's saying forge them.

My jaw dropped when I read the op and omg came out.

Definitely make a lawsuit, even though if you lose out by paying for a lawyer, like you said it would be worth for the principle.

I think small claims court will do. Get the yellow book out if you can afford it and even check for pro bono lawyers, they are rare and hard to find but you just might luck into one.

If you win the court case you might be able to recover lawyer fees.

Its not forgery, they were actual transactions. You're providing records of them after-the-fact. Use some invoice forms, create invoices for each transaction over the past 30 days with the corresponding dates. Stores keep their own merchant copies of receipts, they don't ask customers for their copies when its tax time. They only want your copies of the receipts/invoices.

Sorry, I thought you were insinuating that he forge receipts as proof.

Let them know you will take them to small claims court. Check to see if your area provides small claims actions via telephone, if they do, this basically negates them trying to pull it into another venue you would have a hard time getting to.

With your record of good transactions I'm thinking you'll either get a full favor verdict or just lose out on the $100.

*Gather together whatever you can in terms of records of your Moneypak transactions. Get some emails from people and tie them to specific Moneypaks, etc.

Now I guess people realize why we require sellers to write "Tangible Cryptography LLC" on their MoneyPak receipts and email a scan/photo to us before we complete the sale.  No it wasn't us being parnaoid.  We lost some potential sales by requiring this but it isn't a requirement we intend to drop.

There pretty much is only one dispute possible when it comes to MoneyPaks and that is to claim "I never used this code and when I tried it said the funds had been used".  MP code is only 14 numeric digits so it is possible to brute force.  Generally funds only remain on the "pak" for a short time so the window is small and the risk of a true brute force is small but it can be claimed by a scammer.

Kinda hard to say you never used "your" MoneyPak when it has our company name on the receipt and was redeemed by us. :)

To the OP:
Most likely you won't lose all the funds.  They will just be frozen for some extended time (my guess is 30 to 90 days) and then disbursed to you by company check (similar to a PayPal freeze).  They do this so that if you brute forced all those codes it gives time for the "legit" owners to come forward.

If he files in small claim court no lawyer is needed or possible.

Then circuit or supreme?

Well given the amount is likely below the limit for small claims court that is the best option as he doesn't have to pay the cost of legal fees.  Small claims court also tends to be more informal, present the fact and judge rules.  That being said the funds likely will be released long before his case gets put on the docket.  It can take 6+ months to get a day in court.

Well, that's cool. This is more knowledge for TizzyTazzy to take in.

Nice that you're posting your knowledge in here.

They specifically said if I don't provide proof of all MoneyPak reloads, that I'm out of luck. :(

That's why you sue them.

Hi TizzyTazzy,

I feel sorry for you, and I can understand you are totally angry about this issue.

At the core the problem is really that companies make rules that they intend to follow 100%, and once you have a case that is slightly outside the black and white world that such rules try to cram you into, you'll have a very hard time breaking out of it.

From the company's perspective, they have more than enough customers (dangerous thinking, but they don't care about it) and therefore you are not important to them (which sucks for you).

You could try to get hold of a manager or someone and try to explain what you have been doing and if it can be fixed in a reasonable way.

This could be pretty much like banging the head like a brick wall. If you can go physically to their offices and talk to them in person, perhaps that would be a viable option ?

1K USD is a good amount of money, but it is also a question about how much time, effort and money you should use to claim them back. Did you read MoneyPak's small print, and does it look like they have the right to keep the money ? And why is it that you need to show receipts for all your purchases of those codes to show that you are legit, while MoneyPak company doesn't need to do anything to show that you are not legit ?

It appears to me that big companies are always using their size to exploit customers. Many customers who have their funds frozen, or are incovenienced in some way, usually become frustrated and just shrug it of, then the company in question is sitting there with the funds of all these customers, so financially the company is gaining from it.

Also, a lot of the people working for such companies seems completely unable to use common sense and/or solve a case that's outside the ordinary. I can feel you frustration, and I am dead tired of big companies always exploiting the customers. Instead they should thank you for your business and work with you to sort everything out.

I hope all turns out well for you. To others, as I've alwats said: Be careful with buying codes to prepaid payment cards from strangers.

I just sent MP feedback.
I'll share my mind and words.

pekv2: Well done, however I am afraid this has no effect unless enough people do it, but out of principle I think you did a great thing!

We can see how godaddy buckled when a lot of people moved domains away from them because of SOPA not long ago. Companies listens when customer actions hurt their bottom line, and that's about it.

They were lying. You'll get the money back, it just might take 180 days.

How exactly would I get the money back if they stated otherwise?

Infact, today I logged into my account once again to print out some documents for future reference and now my account balance says $0 and I cannot even access transaction history..  ???

They want receipts for the purchase of the paks. They want *his* copy of *their* receipts to prove that he has some legitimate connection with the purchase of the paks. He can't create those receipts because he wasn't even a party to the transaction they record.

Green dot neither sells nor advertises MoneyPak as suitable for person-to-person transactions.

I have the receipt, and have offered it to you.

Not sure if any of you remember but I went through this last year,
I got a hold of a greendot founder (His cell phone somehow), he said that he loved gold and bitcoin, but there was no way in hell moneypak would ever be dealing with bitcoins and its companies simply because they are competition and his higher ups and the fed would not allow it. Straight up no BS.

This among other things,
Sorry but you are not supposed to cash in other peoples money packs on a business entity level.

This info is of last july but I doubt any of the underlying reasons have changed.

I also got all accounts closed (business and personal despite they werent linked with transactions) after breaking no rule, And i know the rules, at US Bank. Got a call and letter from the president or VP or someshit saying that they will not be involved in the business type. No summary of what i did. No formal anything other than a letter and a personal phone call saying basically, "you didnt do anything wrong but we dont like you so sorry."

So dont expect any help from the main stream.
Not until they need us will they help us or work with us openly, then the bandwagon will be so full its ridiculous. These institutions will cease to exist if they dont scramble for a piece of our pie.

Sorry but say goodbye to the money most likely. At the very least your accounts.

Filing a complaint with the company's local Better Business Bureau might help you get a response if you think they are ignoring you.

My opinion is: sue them in small claims! It will be fun! If you are in America, some states allow a lawyer in small claims court, if you wish.

They will have to task their lawyer to fight it. So, it will cost them more than you, if you do it yourself.

You can't really lose doing this, other than some of your time, since it is often a guaranteed win. They will usually tell the company to try to settle beforehand, and most companies usually will to keep from wasting time. However, as part of the settlement, you may be prevented from suing them again in the future.

TizzyTazzy, are you going to try to fight this?

I see this now, tough situation.


Agree. "They" was just one person on the other end of the telephone, not the final arbiter of company decisions. Try back and you'll likely hear something different from somebody else.

I agree. Eventually, they should agree that if nobody else claims them in some reasonable amount of time, you are entitled to the money, not them. (But they may well tell you to never do business with them again, which is their right.)

Hi Tizzy, I'm sorry to hear some jerk is putting you through so much trouble! :( Just for the record, I traded my MoneyPak with Tizzy a few weeks ago and it was smooth as butter. He is a great guy and it's a real shame to see someone try to play him like this.

I'm not sure if I still have my MoneyPak receipt, but I will try and dig it up for you! Best of luck friend and I hope you get this all squared away soon (and aren't scared away from future MoneyPak transactions :) )

Update on the situation:

A manager was suppose to be calling me, after a week of no calls (5 business days) I called them.

Explained the very long situation to the guy who answered who said he will be calling a manager every hour until they let him know that they called me.

Few hours later I get a call and basically the manager preaches the same thing-- in order to obtain the funds I need to provide proof of purchase. Me and him go back and fourth, he basically starts to say they need "some sort of proof" and then I go on to explain well what more proof than you need, I have the MoneyPak numbers, I didn't just pull that out of a hat.

Still getting no where I insist on talking to who ever is ahead of him and he states this is impossible, I then talk some more to this guy saying this is unacceptable, if you cannot do anything for me to fix this then I need to talk to someone else. I also have already told him that I'd have to take this to small claims court but that didn't seem to affect his responses.

After some more going back and fourth, he puts me on hold for about 2-3 minutes and comes back stating that if after 10 days from this phone call no  disputes open up, we'll then mail you a check within 7 business days (after those 10 days).

This is more acceptable so I thank him for his time and hang up.

Interesting though, their own TOS states people can't file disputes after 10 days (and it has already been well over 10 days for all MoneyPak reloads now) and that they have to prove you stole the MoneyPak, not prove you bought the MoneyPak.

All well, as long as I get my money within the time frame stated above I will be happy. I've now switched away from WM MoneyCard and using MangoMoney to accept MoneyPaks now.. Lesson learned though, I will be making sure everyone pays cash for the MoneyPaks and provide me a receipt with my name on it.

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, I very happy for you. Congratulations.

For 1000 dollars, Small Claims court, no lawyers are allowed, it's cheaper than regular court


Edit: DERP

TizzyTazzy: I hope this will be sorted out. I know it can be a big head ache to fight against big corporations.

Don't give up!

ever read the back of the m.pak.

May contain scammers? :p

You may want to see what a lawyer would charge to send a letter. Sometimes the letterhead from a law office is all it takes.

Update:

I called in the other day to check if any more disputes have happened within the 10 days like they stated.

No one else disputed and they said a check will be mailed out within 7-10 business days.

Woot.

Woot, woot.