Bitcoin Forum

When you think its over and all is lost.  We have bottomed.

I remember watching CNBC when the S&P was at 666 and it felt like the world was ending and nothing could turn it around.  That was actually the best point to invest in a lifetime.

Bitcoin will have its day and it will be glorious.

I agree. Down season = time for opportunities
Up season = time to enjoy

Bottom is just around the corner. 250-300 and we'll see dawn after.

The kicker is that you can't know for sure.

So many people around here are acting like bitcoin is unstoppable.
At this stage, I think it is too but I'm not completely obvlious to the fact that I may be wrong.

I have news for you, we're nowhere near dawn yet. It's more like midnight and the dawn is a long way off...

I am waiting for someone to dug up that  bitcoin gravitates towards 666 thread again.  Although this time i'll be really happy about it  :) 

Yeah who's leaving the party so soon? It's fun to watch the nonbelievers stammer and hesitate in their admonitions when Bitcoin revisits a price but won't just die. It's like watching youngsters get drunk and boast about life experiences and expectations. Bitcoin is 150 proof wake up juice.

It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black!

If we've learnt anything over the last few months/years, it's that absolutely anything can happen.

It can go down further...

still hodling

180 proof goodnight juice for most...

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1978/1101781204_400.jpg

What does that mean???

Then pitch black is the darkest.

Well, I hope you are right cause bitcoin is dropping every week and there is no sign of rebound. So what do you think is the bottom?

I think an announcement out of nowhere will save us and bring new money in.  Big companies will start coming on line now after Microsoft.  Maybe a facebook / youtube tipping integration?  Ebay going full bitcoin?  Amazon??

CNBC said something negative? I have never seen that before!  Usually they say that any fall is a buying opportunity and any rise means it will keep on rising.
Bitcoin is low at the moment, but the future prospects haven't changed.

Maybe some reference to death?

http://www.despair.com/despair.html


I think we've seen that this just isn't the case. Companies accepting it is not enough any more.

We need average people to start having reason to use it. Things like ChangeTip are good. (Maybe google will buy them out someday ;) ) This is what will grow bitcoin; new services that are only now possible thanks to Bitcoin.

(If I were to make any predictions, I would be looking at companies like ChangeTip and plotting their growth. And thinking about how that will effect price.)

Ignorance is bliss. The S&P depends on US economy - large scale businesses. Bitcoin is 100% speculation.
There is the difference. Not only - the more it gets integrated as a payment method, the more merchants would benefit from lower values. When prices boomed it was because Chinese speculants drove it way over the line of resistence and market was severely overbought.

Bitcoin is based on Bitcoin economy. There are companies that deal with bitcoin on a regular basis.
Though, most short term trends are due to news and speculation, it need not be so in the long-term.
100% is NOT speculation.

S&P companies have MA (Material Assets) worth Billions including buildings, machines, vehicles, planes, power-plants etc. They have huge personnel of people creating wealth.
It's an indice created by the largest companies in the US. They are backed up by banks, USD as a currency and a huge community with 300+ million people, who makes sure of the currency's liquidity, which secures bank liquidity, which secures the market as a whole.

Bitcoin is invented by an unknown soft dev and businesses accept bitcoin as long as it can be traded for USD and other regular currencies. If exchanges stop their business through fiat currencies, there is no way to calculate a price for it anymore.

The problem is, the more giant company integrate bitcoin into their payment system, the price drop even further. Those company dump bitcoin immediately and no body want to keep them.

it is a quote from Baron Rothschild...

Alas I believe we are just seeing the dusk... the dawn might be far away..
Someone or some group is maniuplating BTC..  I think a push down to $100ish would allow them to buy up a lot of BTC from the last of those that are not in it for the long run.  Until this forum is almost empty there is to much hope :S.

Bitcoin economy, judging by the securities section of this forum, is 10% gross ineptitude with the remaining 90% being outright fraud.

http://www.sigmalive.com/uploads/images/news/neoeconomy1.jpg

[/quote]
I think we've seen that this just isn't the case. Companies accepting it is not enough any more.

We need average people to start having reason to use it. Things like ChangeTip are good. (Maybe google will buy them out someday ;) ) This is what will grow bitcoin; new services that are only now possible thanks to Bitcoin.

(If I were to make any predictions, I would be looking at companies like ChangeTip and plotting their growth. And thinking about how that will effect price.)
[/quote]

There will be a tipping point where this will change.  Every time Bitcoin is accepted by another major retailer it increases it's utility and brings it closer to mainstream.  I think Microsoft started the tipping.

We are in the perfect buying opportunity, I was one of the biggest buyers at that time, it paid off amazingly... I am now into BTC fully leveraged long at 317~  :-*

All empires say such things. The hubris of too big to fail and trickle down economics is also laughable in through the optics of history. Central banks have enjoyed the power to destroy any nation that opposed them through financing violence. HSBC supporting terrorists is just BAU. Just as the printing press ended the dark ages, bitcoin will end the tyranny of central banks.

You are right about exchanges though. They need to be regulated and then replaced with decentralized markets. Then things will be priced in Bitcoins.

Buy when there is blood in the streets...even if if it is your own..

And yet, although "laughable" it has very solid ground. Bitcoin doesnt. It only has value, until it is traded for USD. If there were no currencies bitcoin wouldn't have any value. Worst thing - currencies have existed since the dark ages, and bitcoin depends on computers and the internet. Without it this currency would cease to exist.

So you disagree with history or do you believe in thousand year empires?

Bitcoin is useful to me nearly every day. Right now, it's a better way to pay for stuff; quicker, more secure, more flexible, etc. I expect legacy payments to catch up to those transactional benefits in time, though, which brings me to...

Bitcoin is also useful to me as a way to store value with no counterparty risk. I keep bitcoin stored in ways that will always be accessible only to me and those with whom I share it. I can access funds when I need to, and never have to worry about banking issues or capital controls.

Those are both very useful properties, and, in the long-run, utility drives demand...whether you're talking about food, gold, dollars, houses, or bitcoin.

I ordered pizza last night with bitcoin, it was so easy and fast too.
I have also ordered a bed and presents with bitcoin in the last week. I decided it was time to start using bitcoin instead of just investing in them. That is how bitcoin will really grow. We all celebrate when a new company accepts bitcoin, but how many of us then use the service??

Quicker - yes, flexible - yes, secure - NO. Someone can steal millions of dollars worth in a matter of minutes without even knowing who you are, only using your Wallet ID and password (mnemonic on blockchain).
And you need the internet to use bitcoins - a network that might not exist in the future. However, banks have and will exist as long as people live in this political reality.

And again - the more it gets integrated the more the price will devaluate. Otherwise it wouldn't be profitable for businesses. Too few use it today, because of price fluctuations and difficulties thereof - mainly tax based and cashflow projection based.

Let's not gloss over the fact that your store of value has lost more than half of its value over the past year.  Such store.  Much value.  Wow.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?id=AMBSL,

you want to stay on the central planned titanic be my guest.
im going with real honest money.

It's true that wallets suck right now. Hardware wallets are being developed using air gap, multisig, and 2fa. They will be easy and secure from attack. The dawn will be bright indeed.

Could you post a link to his quote please? I had no luck Googling for it.

this dump is nothing vs the one that come two months again, when this place was full of troll sockpuppets

Actually it was Sun Tzu's unpublished second book "The Art of Kicking Ass."

If you're doing it right, it's plenty secure. More so than any other asset storage (due to the ability to encrypt and back-up with redundant storage). Citing some security issues with web-enabled wallet implementations (and exaggerating at that), hardly speaks to any core security ability.



That makes no sense. Do the math on what happens if bitcoin gains any sort of traction in markets for which it's suited (remittances, international transfers). It's capital base needs to be an order of magnitude higher (at least) to handle even the tiny success cases. And that's not even considering the store-of-wealth scenarios for which bitcoin is suited (ie, taking a small slice of the gold or "offshored capital" markets).

I expect extreme volatility, and since first jumping into bitcoin in 2011, I said I'd give it *at least* ten years to develop before getting too demanding. So far fundamental development of the ecosystem (and price) have gone considerably better and faster than I expected. 3 years ago it was almost inconceivable that we'd have the current level of success by the end of 2014.

To your point about not glossing over returns, I find my current returns of ~2500% to be satisfactory. That said, I think it's foolish to look at any of this on timescales less than 10yrs or so. This is a long-term experiment.

My point is relatively straightforward:  Bitcoin is an interesting gamble (which, like you, I have taken & enjoyed in the past), but a "store of value"?  Would you call a craps game "a great store of value"?  No, not even if the dice aren't loaded. 
A good store of value does not appreciate tenfold one year and depreciate threefold the next. 
Making your claim that you need to worry less about Bitcoin than you do about banks sound a bit disingenuous.

I try to explain as simple as possible, but its hard to argue with people, stubborn for god knows what. I understand that you love Bitcoin. So do I. But that has nothing to do with it.

Lets face facts. No one gets paid in Bitcoin. And no one probably will. At least on paper. So Bitcoin is not a real factor on the market. Bitcoin can only be mined, exchanged or bought. It cannot be worked for, it cannot be used for buying property (theoretically there is such possibility, but due to IRS complications I don't think anyone would risk it).

Second - paper money have been around for hundreds of years. And coins (silver, gold, copper, nickel etc.) for even more. Even If we get back to basics - gold coverage of money etc. There will be stable world currencies. Bitcoin wouldn't be one of them. It has absolutely no value.

The USD is only legal tender - true. However, a lie is not exactly a lie, when 7.8 billion people believe in it. Simply put.

What do I mean - although most of the money are not in existence today, they will exist 20 - 30  years from now. How? Well easy - USD (for instance) has at least 400 million people worldwide using it (not counting banks, IMF, World Bank, BIS etc.). Not only - it is traded against properties with real value - real estate, cars, Oil rigs, and all kinds of stuff, that actually is worth something. It also has so many regulations and institutions working 24/7 to keep it stable, and a whole country, whose entire policy is to keep it safe at any cost.

Bitcoin has no back up. NONE. NADA. ZERO. It has nothing. It has no real value. It's all speculation. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will die, but If we have to be real - it cannot outstand fial currencies. Why?

Lets say that fiat currencies disappear - banks worldwide go bankrupt blah, blah. OK. So now the only real currency is gold, and the few left banks are minting gold coins. Now how exactly will anyone convince me to exchange my gold coins for a currency that I wouldn't be able to use. I wouldn't be able to use it, because in the current situation banks will absolutely forbid anything that inflates currencies. Since they won't be doing it, the only thing left is speculation. And since there won't be any global stock market, forex market etc. the only thing that will keep inflation going are cryptos.

Why wouldn't banks keep inflating it? Because most people, driven by their insane, insatible greed don't keep in mind that the whole thing is a house of cards, and don't want to believe that one day they might wake up with no money. Same thing as the guy in Cyprus, who had 800,000 EUR in his bank account only to wake up one beautiful morning and find that his bank has frozen 700,000. Imagine how he felt...

In conclusion - and although very few people will admit that, I am 100% sure, that if you ask all users of the forum if they would prefer a million dollars (cash) or ~3,300 BTC they will take the dollars.


Just a few words - quantity (users) over quantity (per user). In order for the market to grow, there is no need of more people owning full %s of the market. Exactly the opposite - the more people owning bitcoin, the better for the currency. Why? Because right now a person with 20000 bitcoins should he decide to sell will devaluate the price significantly. It might be irreversible for years. Or forever. No one can really say. If the market corrects itself to more realistic values, say 25$/BTC it will gain huge popularity, and if people are not driven by greed - 10000% profits, but really by their desire for better currency, then it could reach 200 million users worldwide in a few years. When you have so many people demanding and using it (even for coffee, breakfast, cigarettes, tamponts etc.) that is what creates liquidity. And every store will want to join in. Then the large ATM manufacturers will create proper (secure) ATMs, and banks will start to adopt it. But no bank is going to take seriously a currency with a few million users, most of which - whales with huge market share; no transaction security; huge fraud risk etc. etc.

Again - I like Bitcoin, but get real.

Bitcoin is a gamble today, as it's fate is far from certain. However "tomorrow" (once it's fate has been established if it will be successful) then it will likely be a good store of value as it's price will have stabilized

Two unreasonable assumptions:
1. Bitcoin will succeed (many clonecoins have died)
2. Price will stabilize

My statement that the price will stabilize is based on the "assumption" that bitcoin will succeed (and is disclosed that this assumption is not necessarily going to be true)

Indeed a reasonable assumption backed by the fact that attempts to undermine Bitcoin with clonecoins have thusly failed.

1. Why? All you hypocrites spread this liberal socialist propaganda, about decentralization, and yet all of you are greedy. Everyone expects 1 billion percent increase in price so that they can become a millionaire without a drop of sweat. Well if bitcoin is driven by greed and insanity I don't think it will succeed.

2. I agree - price will stabilize. But I don't think it will increase. I think price needs to drop significantly, in order for the market to grow. Once it reaches 200 million people, even if price is at 25$ stable, there will be ways to buy bitcoin with a credit card and trade on the real forex market - not just market makers. Then an increase of 2$ in price would bring you 1000%. The difference - vast liquidity, making the market move up and down faster and with better predictability and stability. Right now the bullcrap behind it shows.

I, on the other hand, think that that is the best guarantee for something to succeed !

It is the most powerfull drive on earth.

Remember Nasdaq's Bernard Madoff? He conveyed a 30 year ponzi-scheme worth billions. He declared profits out of thin air. Profits that did not exist. And when people tried to cash them in - turned out their investments werent real and they had nothing.

What will happen if say BTC reaches 10 grand/btc? Everyone will start selling. However, at some point exchanges will stop, because supply will be astounding and there will be no more demand. So there goes open market for bitcoins.

Those price fluctuations are possible only because very few people have large amounts of bitcoin.

As the price rises coins are distributed. It has happened with each successive price surge.

The price does not jump from 300 to ten k. It moves there allowing people to sell along the way. Like a market.

The people who own the coins if it ever reaches ten k will not be the people owning them now!

Of course not.  I sold most of mine on the way up to 1k last year.
There are no hodlers--only people claiming to hodl.

Difference is that with a price of 10k exchanges wouldn't be able to hold the BUY positions. Everyone will be bearish. And there won't be anyone buying at that price. And then what?

When Bitcoin gets to 10K you won't be able to buy Bitcoins unless you are a qualified investor with at least a one (or more) million net worth. You will be paid by your employer in Bitcoin for work or you can accept them for business, but brokering will be left to licensed individuals.

NotLambchop: "This user is currently ignored."  :D

So... bitcoin will never reach 10k$, with such restrictive buying options. Bitcoin needs new bagholders to go up like crazy,
10k$ is a longshot but maybe 5k$ is plausible after the 2016 block reward halving. The bitcoin "elites' will dump their stash upon the new "believers".
The bagholders must be average Joes, no sensible businessman will buy close to the top of a bubble.

Correct, that is why we are buying at the bottom of the bubble which is slightly above the 300 mark

Agreed. Although people like to overbuy non-markets (such as CFDs and cryptos) I also think that no one in their right mind would buy at the top and everyone would sell. That would be the problem. Theoretical huge profits, that cannot be withdrawn. And god knows how many exchanges will follow the path of MtGOX under the pressure of FED.

There's no way BTC will ever approach 10k without exchanges that are audited and regulated up the arse.

I think it's gone as far as it can with the exchange infrastructure we have now. None of it's anywhere near solid or transparent enough to service millions of buyers and sellers.

Shh. Don't tell Warren Buffett that.

Add fear of not getting into it on time.

Yes, that makes Bitcoin powerful and attractive as an investment.

^ Fear of not getting in BTC on time + short sellers racing to cover their positions = $$$ for the longs  :-*

Absolutely. My point exactly. Bitcoins themselves might be anonymous, but I don't think exchanges should be such. Exchanges must have some backup. Otherwise a 13yo scammer might create a web-based exchange with no cash and steal millions from dumbasses.

Does everyone remember a few months ago when fewcoins said (and I quote),

"All of those "buy walls" are sooo fake... I watch many of those people cancel ALL THE TIME! That's what happens with unregulated things!!! As a perma-bear, I can tell you BTC price chart looks exactly the same as a penny stock pump and dump that waves widly in the wind back n forth back n forth until its literally worth $0.00"

Here he's not only telling us that he's a perma-bear, but he's also telling us that he believes buy walls are fake and that bitcoin is going to $0.00.

And just today in the Bull Run Initiated Thread (just look in his posting history) he says:

"Amazing buy walls at 330 & 325 now too... We will be lucky to get coins around the 315-320 level again before this bounce really goes up"

hmmm....

It's darkest in the exact middle between dusk and dawn.

Unless the moon is out or it is cloudy at earlier times and the clouds clear up at that time, then this is not the case. Also if you are inside and the lights are on, it can be dark at different times.

^And there I was, thinking Bitcoiners weren't just the smartest people in the whole world...

NotLambchop: "This user is currently ignored."  :D

trols ignord :p

http://s16.postimg.org/6gk73giz9/Capture.jpg

If you aren't buying sub 10K Bitcoin and holding for 10 years just kill yourself.

Dear Freebambi, nobody cares to read your trolling remarks  :D

stop troling ur retartid retart!

http://s9.postimg.org/vur0qzfgf/Capture.jpg

Hey look, it's the Troll NotLambchop, posting as Freebambi  :D

FreeBambi (NotLambchop) still thinking his posts matter  ::)

everey 1 haets u >:(

http://s30.postimg.org/vd90b2rmp/Capture.jpg

FreeBambi (NotLambchop) will keep trolling regardless of how few people are actually reading his comments.  His troll paycheck requires it

So, because the price isn't currently tanking we now have all of TrollChop's sockpuppets quoting each other? How.. original.

There definitely seems to be a change of mood though. I've had false starts on that before though, so we'll see if it lasts :)

im not jaredboice becos im not retartet >:(

Whoah whoah.  Negative.  I'm a TROLL SLAYER  8)

<--- real person

:-D

i taked jarhed of ignor and see? he is an difrint persin!

 ::)

well if it is the deepest part of the galaxy, then it will never be the dwan.