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Title: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 06:22:02 PM All I'm hearing from the forum is the imminent death of bitcoin due to the relatively small drop in price in dollar terms of Bitcoin. I see this as an early sign that a financial collapse is approaching and therefore the perfect time for wise investors to buy. I don't know if people are familiar with the work of Jim Willie of the Golden Jackass but I recommend him, he's fringy and controversial but he has always said that the sign the system is collapsing and the dollar is on its death bed will be a massive rise in the dollar not a drop.
This also is a sign of a deriveratives implosion too. I think we will go lower, very low in fact (in dollar terms) and then we will get a spike up that will shock even seasoned bitcoiners. The absolutely only reason I'm not buying Bitcoin is I have no available fiat. If you are holding dollars then anytime from now is a good time to buy if you hold a longer tem perspective. http://www.maxkeiser.com/2015/01/harvey-organ-derivatives-meltdown-has-begun/ Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: Lethn on January 04, 2015, 06:31:20 PM Yep, that's exactly right, while I think it's too early to say for sure whether Bitcoin is an indicator of anything, I think things have gotten far too high now, they claim Bitcoin was a bubble but imagine what the dollar is going to do when it finally decides to go down. I think I'll actually be stashing by Bitcoin rather than spending it at the moment because I think we may be seeing a price spike at some point and that will be a great time to spend.
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: ajareselde on January 04, 2015, 06:34:47 PM Yep, that's exactly right, while I think it's too early to say for sure whether Bitcoin is an indicator of anything, I think things have gotten far too high now, they claim Bitcoin was a bubble but imagine what the dollar is going to do when it finally decides to go down. I think I'll actually be stashing by Bitcoin rather than spending it at the moment because I think we may be seeing a price spike at some point and that will be a great time to spend. Its just a matter of time when USD drops, and then btc, eur and chf will go sky high. USD is in bubble, not btc, bubble passed btc long time ago.. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: qxzn on January 04, 2015, 06:36:33 PM Indeed. We are in the midst (at the heights of?) a massive global bubble created by artificially depressed interest rates, the likes of which the world has never seen. Hang on to your asses.
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/ Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: PolarPoint on January 04, 2015, 06:38:14 PM I think bitcoin is dropping because merchants are selling the bitcoins they received during christmas shopping. When those who spent bitcoin replenish their bitcoin holdings, price will rise again.
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: podyx on January 04, 2015, 06:38:40 PM very low in terms of usd would be what?
What's your thoughts on this?? https://www.tradingview.com/v/Dx9hLqQ1/ Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: LiteCoinGuy on January 04, 2015, 06:45:01 PM All I'm hearing from the forum is the imminent death of bitcoin due to the relatively small drop in price in dollar terms of Bitcoin. I see this as an early sign that a financial collapse is approaching and therefore the perfect time for wise investors to buy. I don't know if people are familiar with the work of Jim Willie of the Golden Jackass but I recommend him, he's fringy and controversial but he has always said that the sign the system is collapsing and the dollar is on its death bed will be a massive rise in the dollar not a drop. This also is a sign of a deriveratives implosion too. I think we will go lower, very low in fact (in dollar terms) and then we will get a spike up that will shock even seasoned bitcoiners. The absolutely only reason I'm not buying Bitcoin is I have no available fiat. If you are holding dollars then anytime from now is a good time to buy if you hold a longer tem perspective. http://www.maxkeiser.com/2015/01/harvey-organ-derivatives-meltdown-has-begun/ pure speculation :D Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 06:56:46 PM very low in terms of usd would be what? What's your thoughts on this?? https://www.tradingview.com/v/Dx9hLqQ1/ Well I don't see the drop in price to be that significant looking at the big picture either, Bitcoin to me resembles a Gold chart more than anything. My point is if you are going to measure bitcoin in dollar terms expect a drop or at least a levelling off. The bigger picture is indeed a rise. But the opportunity is that Bitcoin however much the Dollar implodes upwards will get a short to medium term drop. I expect sub 200 probably sub 100 at least before the reversal, though I don't discount a sub 50. This isn't your typical chart move, I'm talking Armageddon scale move. :) Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: LOBSTER on January 04, 2015, 06:59:55 PM The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")?
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 07:05:27 PM The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")? I've heard this question so many times and so many times I hear people say if the financial system goes down the so does Bitcoin. But the point is fiat actually evaporates in value, that's hyper inflation. Gold like bitcoin isn't just about during a financial collapse and honestly we dont know how it will react during a financial implosion. People often want to buy food etc more than Gold or currency during extreme past situations. But what Gold does is which I believe Bitcoin will do is get people to the other side of the river. They will have something other than their dicks to hold when the dust clears is what I'm saying. Price in terms of the dollar like Gold has very little interest me actually, how can it if I believe the dollar is worthless? So yeah Bitcoin I believe will protect you just like Gold, during the collapse it might be worthless but after one it will still be in your wallet with a renewed interest from people who thought the dollar was a store of value. Personally I do think Bitcoin will thrive during a collapse but like I said that's not really the issue. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: saddampbuh on January 04, 2015, 07:23:05 PM 1100 to 270 cant be seen as "relatively small" by any standard
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 07:29:12 PM 1100 to 270 cant be seen as "relatively small" by any standard It absolutely can and is by the standard set by the overal rise. Take any stock in the Dow Jones buy it and see the price rise 30,000% and then see how worried you will be if it drops 300% It's negligible. I'm sorry of you bought in at the peak of Euphoria stage but don't then make the same mistake to think it won't regain that price and more just as easily. compared to past drops the chart almost makes it look like a sideways move compared to past drops. https://afbitcoins.wordpress.com Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 04, 2015, 08:05:17 PM This isn't going to be one of those threads where everyone strokes each other until the final climax on page 5 is it? Think deeply about the arguments presented and look at both sides. For example, "the dollar is dying and Bitcoin will rise from the ashes" debate. Is the dollar really dying and is Bitcoin capable of replacing it?
Quote The dying dollar (economic forecaster, Gary Shilling) 1. Economic Productivity Among developed nations the U.S. has had the strongest productivity over the last decade. For example, the U.S. averaged 2.2%, Japan 1.6%, U.K. 1.2%, Germany 0.9%, Canada 0.9%, France 0.8%, and Italy flat. When you consider the deflationary trends now at work in emerging markets and other developed nations, Gary believes that U.S. productivity will continue to outperform and help keep the dollar strong. 2. The World’s Largest Economy The dominant currency is typically found in the world’s largest economy and the U.S. is head-and-shoulders above the rest. As Gary points out, in 2012 U.S. GDP was $15.7 trillion. The second closest, China, was nearly half the size at $8.2 trillion. If you think China is about to overtake the U.S. in terms of size, Gary says “China would have to grow 12% a year for 20 years to catch up…it’s now down at about 7.5% growth and as the Chinese economy shifts away from being driven by exports…away from infrastructure, away from heavy borrowing, and so on, their growth is going to grow even more slowly.” 3. Deep and Broad Financial Markets Here, Gary writes, “Internationally, money—especially today when it can be transferred anywhere in a split second—wants to be where the action is. That requires not only a powerful and large economy but also deep and broad markets in which to invest. Today, the U.S. Treasury market trumps all others in size and, in the eyes of investors…, in safety as witnessed by the mad rush into Treasury bonds in times of recent global trouble." Similarly, he states, “American stock market capitalization is four times that of China, Japan or the U.K. and is over three times the Eurozone's…Almost 50% of Treasuries are held by foreigners but only 9.1% of Japan's government net debt is owned by non-Japanese. According to the IMF, 62% of the world's currency reserves are in dollars. The 24% in euros is down from 29% four years ago. Foreigners so love investing in the U.S. that at the end of 2012, it exceeded U.S. investment abroad by $4.4 trillion, up from $4 trillion a year earlier.” 4. Free and Open Financial Markets and Economy “Investors want to go where it’s free and open; they don’t like China. China periodically freezes their currency. They did that for example during the Great Recession. They had let it float up but then they froze it when they got worried. They’re now letting it float a bit, but they turn it on, they turn it off. Other currencies are much less free to people moving out. They typically manipulate currencies in a lot of places. The Swiss, for example…froze their currency 1.2 to the Euro when everybody wanted to be in the Swiss Franc because they worried that a strong currency would kill their exports to the Eurozone, which is their major trading partner.” 5. Lack of Substitutes “Things can change over time but one statistic that I think is very important is global forex trading. Now, there’s two sides to this so the numbers add up to 200%, not 100%, because for every sale there’s a buy. But if you look at the trading, in 2001, the U.S. dollar accounted for 90% of all the daily trading in currencies. In 2013, it’s down from 90% to 87%. But if you think of all that’s happened in that time, the euro currency had come in, China has gotten stronger, etc. But it still has only declined 3 percentage points and it’s way ahead of anything else. The second one today is the euro at 33% versus [the USD at] 87%, the yen 23%, sterling 12%—in other words, this is the currency that people transact.” 6. Credibility “The sixth characteristic is credibility. And that’s the only one where you can say there’s been any questioning of the dollar. And it is true that last year that Standard & Poor’s did downgrade the U.S. from triple AAA to AA+, but that hasn’t really hurt. You might remember that when they did that, Treasuries actually rallied…and it has not changed the willingness of foreigners to put money into dollar denominated assets. So, the credibility issue is the only one that is not absolutely triple-A, but it hasn’t had any decided effects so far.” Everywhere you see the word dollar above replace it with Bitcoin. Does the article still work? Why is Bitcoin really falling? The only answer I can see to that question that seems real is that market forces (buying and selling) are changing the price of Bitcoin. The daily direction is anyone's guess. The question is, do you think Bitcoin still has a future? I do. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 08:18:51 PM This isn't going to be one of those threads where everyone strokes each other until the final climax on page 5 is it? Think deeply about the arguments presented and look at both sides. For example, "the dollar is dying and Bitcoin will rise from the ashes" debate. Is the dollar really dying and is Bitcoin capable of replacing it? Quote The dying dollar (economic forecaster, Gary Shilling) 1. Economic Productivity Among developed nations the U.S. has had the strongest productivity over the last decade. For example, the U.S. averaged 2.2%, Japan 1.6%, U.K. 1.2%, Germany 0.9%, Canada 0.9%, France 0.8%, and Italy flat. When you consider the deflationary trends now at work in emerging markets and other developed nations, Gary believes that U.S. productivity will continue to outperform and help keep the dollar strong. 2. The World’s Largest Economy The dominant currency is typically found in the world’s largest economy and the U.S. is head-and-shoulders above the rest. As Gary points out, in 2012 U.S. GDP was $15.7 trillion. The second closest, China, was nearly half the size at $8.2 trillion. If you think China is about to overtake the U.S. in terms of size, Gary says “China would have to grow 12% a year for 20 years to catch up…it’s now down at about 7.5% growth and as the Chinese economy shifts away from being driven by exports…away from infrastructure, away from heavy borrowing, and so on, their growth is going to grow even more slowly.” 3. Deep and Broad Financial Markets Here, Gary writes, “Internationally, money—especially today when it can be transferred anywhere in a split second—wants to be where the action is. That requires not only a powerful and large economy but also deep and broad markets in which to invest. Today, the U.S. Treasury market trumps all others in size and, in the eyes of investors…, in safety as witnessed by the mad rush into Treasury bonds in times of recent global trouble." Similarly, he states, “American stock market capitalization is four times that of China, Japan or the U.K. and is over three times the Eurozone's…Almost 50% of Treasuries are held by foreigners but only 9.1% of Japan's government net debt is owned by non-Japanese. According to the IMF, 62% of the world's currency reserves are in dollars. The 24% in euros is down from 29% four years ago. Foreigners so love investing in the U.S. that at the end of 2012, it exceeded U.S. investment abroad by $4.4 trillion, up from $4 trillion a year earlier.” 4. Free and Open Financial Markets and Economy “Investors want to go where it’s free and open; they don’t like China. China periodically freezes their currency. They did that for example during the Great Recession. They had let it float up but then they froze it when they got worried. They’re now letting it float a bit, but they turn it on, they turn it off. Other currencies are much less free to people moving out. They typically manipulate currencies in a lot of places. The Swiss, for example…froze their currency 1.2 to the Euro when everybody wanted to be in the Swiss Franc because they worried that a strong currency would kill their exports to the Eurozone, which is their major trading partner.” 5. Lack of Substitutes “Things can change over time but one statistic that I think is very important is global forex trading. Now, there’s two sides to this so the numbers add up to 200%, not 100%, because for every sale there’s a buy. But if you look at the trading, in 2001, the U.S. dollar accounted for 90% of all the daily trading in currencies. In 2013, it’s down from 90% to 87%. But if you think of all that’s happened in that time, the euro currency had come in, China has gotten stronger, etc. But it still has only declined 3 percentage points and it’s way ahead of anything else. The second one today is the euro at 33% versus [the USD at] 87%, the yen 23%, sterling 12%—in other words, this is the currency that people transact.” 6. Credibility “The sixth characteristic is credibility. And that’s the only one where you can say there’s been any questioning of the dollar. And it is true that last year that Standard & Poor’s did downgrade the U.S. from triple AAA to AA+, but that hasn’t really hurt. You might remember that when they did that, Treasuries actually rallied…and it has not changed the willingness of foreigners to put money into dollar denominated assets. So, the credibility issue is the only one that is not absolutely triple-A, but it hasn’t had any decided effects so far.” Everywhere you see the word dollar above replace it with Bitcoin. Does the article still work? Why is Bitcoin really falling? The only answer I can see to that question that seems real is that market forces (buying and selling) are changing the price of Bitcoin. The daily direction is anyone's guess. The question is, do you think Bitcoin still has a future? I do. Yeah the dollar really IS dying in terms of the petrodollar and as a form of trade settlement generally, that's a fact with everyday news of a new direct currency swap agreement comes out. I personally think the idea that Bitcoin will replace the domestic dollar/fiat is also too extreme. I'm sure there will be more fiat systems to come, those in charge won't let go of that power easily. But you don't need fiat to completely disappear forever for Bitcoin to shine. The middle ground argument still has Bitcoin on top. I don't know why anyone cares for the mainstream arguments for the dollar, they come from the same mouths that Bitcoin is rat poison. Of course they want to argue for the dollars dominance. The power of probably the biggest empire the world has ever seen is resting on the dollar being used and it being strong. So why the hell would anyone invested in that system want Bitcoin? Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 04, 2015, 08:27:49 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead.
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 08:34:11 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. Currencies never collapse over decades they collapse more than often before people can get to their banks. The writing has been already on the wall for decades. I would argue since the FED was set up which actually is exactly 100 years.... Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: neurorit on January 04, 2015, 08:35:04 PM All I'm hearing from the forum is the imminent death of bitcoin due to the relatively small drop in price in dollar terms of Bitcoin. I see this as an early sign that a financial collapse is approaching and therefore the perfect time for wise investors to buy. I don't know if people are familiar with the work of Jim Willie of the Golden Jackass but I recommend him, he's fringy and controversial but he has always said that the sign the system is collapsing and the dollar is on its death bed will be a massive rise in the dollar not a drop. This also is a sign of a deriveratives implosion too. I think we will go lower, very low in fact (in dollar terms) and then we will get a spike up that will shock even seasoned bitcoiners. The absolutely only reason I'm not buying Bitcoin is I have no available fiat. If you are holding dollars then anytime from now is a good time to buy if you hold a longer tem perspective. http://www.maxkeiser.com/2015/01/harvey-organ-derivatives-meltdown-has-begun/ Is there a known phenomenon in markets in which a currency/asset has a crazy rise before an epic crash? That's how I see Wall Street, the dollar, etc right now. I'm going to check out this Jim Willie fella cause what you're saying he's saying resonates with what I feel is happening. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: sherbyspark on January 04, 2015, 08:38:45 PM The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")? If a global crash does occur, I don't think people would like to put in their money into a more volatile digital currency, where they could lost more than 60% of their holdings .Just Quoting my brother here . Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: General_A on January 04, 2015, 08:42:08 PM I couldn't agree with this more:
The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 08:42:50 PM The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")? If a global crash does occur, I don't think people would like to put in their money into a more volatile digital currency, where they could lost more than 60% of their holdings .Just Quoting my brother here . I was talking to a friend about digital currencies today and he said I don't believe in digital currency is just made up out of thin air and said he only wants cold hard cash he can hold in his hands. Then he preceded to pay with his meal with a credit card.... Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: cyberpinoy on January 04, 2015, 08:43:49 PM Dont buy yet, the rice will keep going down and down and down wait till it hits 50 to 75 bucks then maybe think of buying. I wish it would just drop there faster so everyone will start buying it again HAHA.
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: neurorit on January 04, 2015, 08:45:25 PM The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")? If a global crash does occur, I don't think people would like to put in their money into a more volatile digital currency, where they could lost more than 60% of their holdings .Just Quoting my brother here . What're some alternatives? And how do they compare to Bitcoin? I hold gold and silver but Bitcoin's portability make it a lot easier to hide and travel with. Also gold has already been confiscated by .Gov so I see no reason that that couldn't happen again. I guess you have things that you could barter with like liquor, guns/ammo, food items. But these aren't typically seen as a store of value. Typically those who think shit will hit the fan economically want no paper assets, so in my mind math-based assets that can't be forged and are extremely portable make a lot of sense. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 08:45:37 PM I couldn't agree with this more: The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite. Well I did give one source to my argument. But just research currency swap agreements over the last year of news especially the Yuan and also the BRICS bank which is clearly hoping to become the new IMF and alternative to the dollar system. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: General_A on January 04, 2015, 08:48:42 PM I couldn't agree with this more: The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite. Well I did give one source to my argument. But just research currency swap agreements over the last year of news especially the Yuan and also the BRICS bank which is clearly hoping to become the new IMF and alternative to the dollar system. I am aware of all these developments, but why does this mean that the dollars crash is imminent? These kinda of plays will take years to commence. I am not having a dig im just curious how people come to these conclusions. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 08:49:25 PM The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")? If a global crash does occur, I don't think people would like to put in their money into a more volatile digital currency, where they could lost more than 60% of their holdings .Just Quoting my brother here . What're some alternatives? And how do they compare to Bitcoin? I hold gold and silver but Bitcoin's portability make it a lot easier to hide and travel with. Also gold has already been confiscated by .Gov so I see no reason that that couldn't happen again. I guess you have things that you could barter with like liquor, guns/ammo, food items. But these aren't typically seen as a store of value. Typically those who think shit will hit the fan economically want no paper assets, so in my mind math-based assets that can't be forged and are extremely portable make a lot of sense. I completely agree with you. Gold and silver are the traditional way to hold value and Imwouod never say Bitcoinmos superior to them ever. But Bitcoin has anominity and better transport going for it. A balanced view would be assets, including property, precious metals and digital currencies. And the reality is if it did all go MAD MAX which I'm not convinced it will then you might need guns if mayhem ensues and food stores. In the end you can't eat Gold. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: neurorit on January 04, 2015, 08:49:53 PM I couldn't agree with this more: The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite. Google "de-dollarization" and read some zerohedge.com if you're curious about the "dollars days are numbered" point of view. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: General_A on January 04, 2015, 08:51:11 PM I couldn't agree with this more: The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite. Google "de-dollarization" and read some zerohedge.com if you're curious about the "dollars days are numbered" point of view. Without sounding arrogant I read zerohedge all the time. I just don't agree with their conclusions. Same with Jim Willie. I think they make some good points but I think the magnitude effect these occurrences will have on the financial system is currently limited. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 04, 2015, 08:51:54 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. Currencies never collapse over decades they collapse more than often before people can get to their banks. The writing has been already on the wall for decades. I would argue since the FED was set up which actually is exactly 100 years.... Ok, I'll bite. Let's say there is a run on all the banks tomorrow and no one in the world is willing to use the dollar. It finally meets its deserved death. People all across the U.S. refuse to go to work. Production all but ceases to exist. People are starving to death because there's nothing to trade for food. What currency fills the vaccum left in international trade? Bitcoin? How does it come to be implimented. Is it taken over by the U.S. government to fix the problem or is it used by Muslems to destroy the evil satan once and for all? My point is the dollar has nothing to do with the direction of Bitcoin at this point other than the value of Bitcoin is pegged to the dollar. Recessions and economic crisis are going to happen but that isn't going to help Bitcoin. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: Nagle on January 04, 2015, 08:53:14 PM I think bitcoin is dropping because merchants are selling the bitcoins they received during christmas shopping. When those who spent bitcoin replenish their bitcoin holdings, price will rise again. Most merchants use Coinbase, which means the merchant never owns Bitcoins at all. Coinbase then dumps their incoming Bitcoins on Bitstamp, so they can pay the merchant in fiat. Thus, all the holiday season transactions are over.Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 08:55:35 PM I couldn't agree with this more: The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. The dollar is not going anywhere any time soon. I would like to know 1: why people think this is going to happen? and 2: why people believe the petrodollar system is failing? . The signs in the market point to the exact opposite. Well I did give one source to my argument. But just research currency swap agreements over the last year of news especially the Yuan and also the BRICS bank which is clearly hoping to become the new IMF and alternative to the dollar system. I am aware of all these developments, but why does this mean that the dollars crash is imminent? These kinda of plays will take years to commence. I think the arguemnt is their are many complicated deriveratives that like like they are 'breaking' so you are seeing unusual counterintuitive signs like the rise of the dollar. The truth is we are in uncharted times, I personally believe almost no one understands deriveratives that's the whole point is they are on purpose exotic and incomprehensible. Many would argue the fincancial system already collapses in 2008 sin e then the FED has just pumped blood into a dead body and zero interests rates is unpresidented. I would argue the reason people can't see all this is because they are given another narrative by the MSM which is patently false. My point is I'm giving an alternative view to what most are saying, that is my point. Cause 99.9% of people think the dollar rise and Bitcoins drop against it is evidence of strength of the dollar system, I'm saying it could be the opposite. Hearing only one opinion is not being well informed. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: Parazyd on January 04, 2015, 08:56:05 PM I think bitcoin is dropping because merchants are selling the bitcoins they received during christmas shopping. When those who spent bitcoin replenish their bitcoin holdings, price will rise again. Most merchants use Coinbase, which means the merchant never owns Bitcoins at all. Coinbase then dumps their incoming Bitcoins on Bitstamp, so they can pay the merchant in fiat. Thus, all the holiday season transactions are over.Doesn't Coinbase have its own exchange? Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 08:59:18 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. Currencies never collapse over decades they collapse more than often before people can get to their banks. The writing has been already on the wall for decades. I would argue since the FED was set up which actually is exactly 100 years.... Ok, I'll bite. Let's say there is a run on all the banks tomorrow and no one in the world is willing to use the dollar. It finally meets its deserved death. People all across the U.S. refuse to go to work. Production all but ceases to exist. People are starving to death because there's nothing to trade for food. What currency fills the vaccum left in international trade? Bitcoin? How does it come to be implimented. Is it taken over by the U.S. government to fix the problem or is it used by Muslems to destroy the evil satan once and for all? My point is the dollar has nothing to do with the direction of Bitcoin at this point other than the value of Bitcoin is pegged to the dollar. Recessions and economic crisis are going to happen but that isn't going to help Bitcoin. Ok then, the Yuan or possibly a basket of gold backed currencies, the issue is people WILL be looking for an alternative if the collapse comes. I wouldn't look at recessions etc helping Bitcoin. I would say Bitcoin will help you when recessins and economic crisis come. Bitcoin doesn't need help, it rose a bazillion percent, why does anyone think it's having problems? Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: General_A on January 04, 2015, 09:01:53 PM I think the arguemnt is their are many complicated deriveratives that like like they are 'breaking' so you are seeing unusual counterintuitive signs like the rise of the dollar. The truth is we are in uncharted times, I personally believe almost no one understands deriveratives that's the whole point is they are on purpose exotic and incomprehensible. Many would argue the fincancial system already collapses in 2008 sin e then the FED has just pumped blood into a dead body and zero interests rates is unpresidented. I would argue the reason people can't see all this is because they are given another narrative by the MSM which is patently false. Yes - the derivative market is an issue, but not an issue that is likely to blow up soon. The derivative is effectively back-stopped by the central banks. I.e. every time a crash warning rumbles, the fed prints over the problem. Not that this system is sustainable, but this is a global issue - not just a US issue. I know people in the industry who said because of the back stop banks see derivatives as a win-win bet, because any explosion in the derivative market is back-stopped by the fed and insured by .... (i forget the name, some government industry). Note how all the real wealthy, as in the 0.01% make 60-80% of their wealth in financial assets. None of them decreased their holdings this year. That says more than anything else. These are the real shakers of the economy. They will know of an imminent crash before us. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: neurorit on January 04, 2015, 09:02:05 PM Without sounding arrogant I read zerohedge all the time. I just don't agree with their conclusions. Same with Jim Willie. I think they make some good points but I think the magnitude effect these occurrences will have on the financial system is currently limited. My view is pretty simple. The recent QEs caused a number of asset bubbles which when they finally pop it's going to make the 2008 economic crisis look like nothing. (The recent omnibus bill that slipped in a clause putting all the derivatives banks should be liable for onto the US tax payers tells me they're already planning for this.) After the last housing bubble popped the FEDs response was QE. So the big question for me is what option does the FED have the next round of deflating bubbles? Eventually the world is going to lose confidence in these Keynesian corportists and the dollar at that point will lose its world-reserve status. Considering the vast majority of dollars are held offshore for trading, if those get dumped, the dollar's demise could happen really fast. But this is just my view, I have no crystal ball, and I never actually studied economics at university, etc. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: windpath on January 04, 2015, 09:03:19 PM I think bitcoin is dropping because merchants are selling the bitcoins they received during christmas shopping. When those who spent bitcoin replenish their bitcoin holdings, price will rise again. Most merchants use Coinbase, which means the merchant never owns Bitcoins at all. Coinbase then dumps their incoming Bitcoins on Bitstamp, so they can pay the merchant in fiat. Thus, all the holiday season transactions are over.I'd suggest BitPay has a much larger merchant base then CoinBase... Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: johny08 on January 04, 2015, 09:05:13 PM We will see a fall to $135 in BTC but as long the trading volume is up, its not a problem to send large amounts and thats important the the currency itself.
Othercoins will come and will show thats the blockchain of BTC is not a unique factor in BTC. Other blockchains will help BTC to get into mainstream. Just my prediction, I am not Merlin. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: General_A on January 04, 2015, 09:07:43 PM Without sounding arrogant I read zerohedge all the time. I just don't agree with their conclusions. Same with Jim Willie. I think they make some good points but I think the magnitude effect these occurrences will have on the financial system is currently limited. My view is pretty simple. The recent QEs caused a number of asset bubbles which when they finally pop it's going to make the 2008 economic crisis look like nothing. (The recent omnibus bill that slipped in a clause putting all the derivatives banks should be liable for onto the US tax payers tells me they're already planning for this.) After the last housing bubble popped the FEDs response was QE. So the big question for me is what option does the FED have the next round of deflating bubbles? Eventually the world is going to lose confidence in these Keynesian corportists and the dollar at that point will lose it's world-reserve status. Considering the vast majority of dollars are held offshore for trading, if those get dumped, the dollar's demise could happen really fast. But this just my view, I have no crystal ball, and I never actually studied economics at university, etc. Your not totally wrong, I just disagree with the conclusions. After the bubble bursts, then what? This system is currently BETTER than anything prepared in the sidelines. No one on top wants this party to end (apart from Russia, Syria and Iran). It will ruin their wealth. I doubt you want this system to end right now too. It would literally mean chaos. Fuck gold, fuck BTC, a crash of the magnitude some people predict would mean a restart. Restarts are bloody and brutal with no exceptions. They will paper this over in the short term, inflate the debt off in the medium term and system changes in the long term. Were talking decades, not weeks, months, years. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: nextgencoin on January 04, 2015, 09:08:17 PM I think the arguemnt is their are many complicated deriveratives that like like they are 'breaking' so you are seeing unusual counterintuitive signs like the rise of the dollar. The truth is we are in uncharted times, I personally believe almost no one understands deriveratives that's the whole point is they are on purpose exotic and incomprehensible. Many would argue the fincancial system already collapses in 2008 sin e then the FED has just pumped blood into a dead body and zero interests rates is unpresidented. I would argue the reason people can't see all this is because they are given another narrative by the MSM which is patently false. Yes - the derivative market is an issue, but not an issue that is likely to blow up soon. The derivative is effectively back-stopped by the central banks. I.e. every time a crash warning rumbles, the fed prints over the problem. Not that this system is sustainable, but this is a global issue - not just a US issue. I know people in the industry who said because of the back stop banks see derivatives as a win-win bet, because any explosion in the derivative market is back-stopped by the fed and insured by .... (i forget the name, some government industry). Note how all the real wealthy, as in the 0.01% make 60-80% of their wealth in financial assets. None of them decreased their holdings this year. That says more than anything else. These are the real shakers of the economy. They will know of an imminent crash before us. My main problem with most arguments against is everything is rosy so thefore there is no problem. Everything is always fine until it isn't. Do I know the day this is all coming...no. But probably most people won't just like they didn't in all the great market collapses in history. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 04, 2015, 09:08:23 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. Currencies never collapse over decades they collapse more than often before people can get to their banks. The writing has been already on the wall for decades. I would argue since the FED was set up which actually is exactly 100 years.... Ok, I'll bite. Let's say there is a run on all the banks tomorrow and no one in the world is willing to use the dollar. It finally meets its deserved death. People all across the U.S. refuse to go to work. Production all but ceases to exist. People are starving to death because there's nothing to trade for food. What currency fills the vaccum left in international trade? Bitcoin? How does it come to be implimented. Is it taken over by the U.S. government to fix the problem or is it used by Muslems to destroy the evil satan once and for all? My point is the dollar has nothing to do with the direction of Bitcoin at this point other than the value of Bitcoin is pegged to the dollar. Recessions and economic crisis are going to happen but that isn't going to help Bitcoin. Ok then, the Yuan or possibly a basket of gold backed currencies, the issue is people WILL be looking for an alternative if the collapse comes. I wouldn't look at recessions etc helping Bitcoin. I would say Bitcoin will help you when recessins and economic crisis come. Bitcoin doesn't need help, it rose a bazillion percent, why does anyone think it's having problems? Then the IMF helps the Yuan become the new world reserve currency. Everyone in the world rallies around the Yuan trying to keep from starving to death. At this point is Bitcoin pegged to the Yuan? Will the Bitcoin price be more stable because it's pegged to the Yuan? In order for this new system to work and Bitcoin to be a good alternative it needs to have value to people. Where does it get that value from in this new world? Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: germanuniv on January 04, 2015, 09:11:54 PM Jim Willie, yes. I plan to buy more end of the week. Hyper inflation, loss of faith in the money, less spending, less money available for investments, concentration of wealth.
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 04, 2015, 09:12:55 PM Without sounding arrogant I read zerohedge all the time. I just don't agree with their conclusions. Same with Jim Willie. I think they make some good points but I think the magnitude effect these occurrences will have on the financial system is currently limited. My view is pretty simple. The recent QEs caused a number of asset bubbles which when they finally pop it's going to make the 2008 economic crisis look like nothing. (The recent omnibus bill that slipped in a clause putting all the derivatives banks should be liable for onto the US tax payers tells me they're already planning for this.) After the last housing bubble popped the FEDs response was QE. So the big question for me is what option does the FED have the next round of deflating bubbles? Eventually the world is going to lose confidence in these Keynesian corportists and the dollar at that point will lose it's world-reserve status. Considering the vast majority of dollars are held offshore for trading, if those get dumped, the dollar's demise could happen really fast. But this just my view, I have no crystal ball, and I never actually studied economics at university, etc. Your not totally wrong, I just disagree with the conclusions. After the bubble bursts, then what? This system is currently BETTER than anything prepared in the sidelines. No one on top wants this party to end (apart from Russia, Syria and Iran). It will ruin their wealth. I doubt you want this system to end right now too. It would literally mean chaos. Fuck gold, fuck BTC, a crash of the magnitude some people predict would mean a restart. Restarts are bloody and brutal with no exceptions. They will paper this over in the short term, inflate the debt off in the medium term and system changes in the long term. Were talking decades, not weeks, months, years. It would take at least a few decades or a decade of worldwide pain and suffering that no one wants. You're right. That's why the system hasn't failed yet. No one wants it to. Bitcoin isn't the answer right now. At this point Bitcoin is just along for the ride. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: General_A on January 04, 2015, 09:13:23 PM My main problem with most arguments against is everything is rosy so thefore there is no problem. Everything is always fine until it isn't. Do I know the day this is all coming...no. But probably most people won't just like they didn't in all the great market collapses in history. Its not rosy. Everyone knows that. The Warren Buffets of this world know this, the Barack Obama's know this, the bloody milkman knows this. In a standard market it could crash, but this is not a standard market. Its owned primarily by the very wealthy and the banks. They would have to all run from the market for it to crash and that is not happening anytime soon. They all quite like their money there with the 5-10% gains per year. The thing to watch is NOT the financial markets, but the income inequality. The only thing that will change this system will be wide spread discontent and a government getting scared by its citizens. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: neurorit on January 04, 2015, 09:16:00 PM Without sounding arrogant I read zerohedge all the time. I just don't agree with their conclusions. Same with Jim Willie. I think they make some good points but I think the magnitude effect these occurrences will have on the financial system is currently limited. My view is pretty simple. The recent QEs caused a number of asset bubbles which when they finally pop it's going to make the 2008 economic crisis look like nothing. (The recent omnibus bill that slipped in a clause putting all the derivatives banks should be liable for onto the US tax payers tells me they're already planning for this.) After the last housing bubble popped the FEDs response was QE. So the big question for me is what option does the FED have the next round of deflating bubbles? Eventually the world is going to lose confidence in these Keynesian corportists and the dollar at that point will lose it's world-reserve status. Considering the vast majority of dollars are held offshore for trading, if those get dumped, the dollar's demise could happen really fast. But this just my view, I have no crystal ball, and I never actually studied economics at university, etc. Your not totally wrong, I just disagree with the conclusions. After the bubble bursts, then what? This system is currently BETTER than anything prepared in the sidelines. No one on top wants this party to end (apart from Russia, Syria and Iran). It will ruin their wealth. I doubt you want this system to end right now too. It would literally mean chaos. Fuck gold, fuck BTC, a crash of the magnitude some people predict would mean a restart. Restarts are bloody and brutal with no exceptions. They will paper this over in the short term, inflate the debt off in the medium term and system changes in the long term. Were talking decades, not weeks, months, years. I certainly don't want a reset anytime soon. I actually hope you're right that it's decades away. I don't really have anything to lose at this point as far as wealth is concerned, but I feel you're right that it would be total chaos. I'd rather have done well for a few years and have become an expat in a developing country before SHTF if SHTF means madmax total chaos. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: General_A on January 04, 2015, 09:18:09 PM I certainly don't want a reset anytime soon. I actually hope you're right that it's decades away. I don't really have anything to lose at this point as far as wealth is concerned, but I feel you're right that it would be total chaos. I'd rather have done well for a few years and have become an expat in a developing country before SHTF if SHTF means madmax total chaos. The market is not going to crash the way that Jim Willie or zerohedge predicts anytime soon. I will literally guarantee it. That's not to say were not going to have massive crashes, deflation, inflation and all those other lovely market forces coming into effect. If you wait for the economic crash ship to sail you will waste your ENTIRE life. Your second plan is solid; do it. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: podyx on January 04, 2015, 09:54:07 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. And that complex system of domestic and international trade only grows bigger in every aspect. So, what can we conclude of this? That it will just keep going forever and debt will also exponentially rise forever and we will all be living in $100 milllion mansions and riding $50 million yachts? No... not really... Get a grip of reality kid Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 04, 2015, 09:58:41 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. And that complex system of domestic and international trade only grows bigger in every aspect. So, what can we conclude of this? That it will just keep going forever and debt will also exponentially rise forever and we will all be living in $100 milllion mansions and riding $50 million yachts? No... not really... Get a grip of reality kid No, like I said, it will eventually fail just not in my lifetime. Thanks BTW. No one has called me kid in 35 years. ;D Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: podyx on January 04, 2015, 10:02:50 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. And that complex system of domestic and international trade only grows bigger in every aspect. So, what can we conclude of this? That it will just keep going forever and debt will also exponentially rise forever and we will all be living in $100 milllion mansions and riding $50 million yachts? No... not really... Get a grip of reality kid No, like I said, it will eventually fail just not in my lifetime. Thanks BTW. No one has called me kid in 35 years. ;D NP ;D btw, I'm not a expert. Because of the strength of the dollar, it could very well be maintained and controlled for longer then expected. But even then, with the pace we're going I just don't see how it will last for a much longer time. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: 3eme on January 04, 2015, 10:15:44 PM There's a slam dunk argument for hyperinflation right here
http://fofoa.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/inflation-or-hyperinflation.html (http://fofoa.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/inflation-or-hyperinflation.html) This is a blogger by the name of FOFOA and he is well worth a read. This house of cards is probably going to pop within the next 5 years, if that and physical gold is going to be the asset to own. I consider Bitcoin a speculative play right now but if a hyperinflation hits, people will be looking for anywhere to get rid of their fast devaluing Dollars and its pretty easy to buy bitcoin so I can see there being a good chunk of demand and selling drying up in that scenario. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 04, 2015, 11:03:36 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. And that complex system of domestic and international trade only grows bigger in every aspect. So, what can we conclude of this? That it will just keep going forever and debt will also exponentially rise forever and we will all be living in $100 milllion mansions and riding $50 million yachts? No... not really... Get a grip of reality kid No, like I said, it will eventually fail just not in my lifetime. Thanks BTW. No one has called me kid in 35 years. ;D NP ;D btw, I'm not a expert. Because of the strength of the dollar, it could very well be maintained and controlled for longer then expected. But even then, with the pace we're going I just don't see how it will last for a much longer time. The system already has failed. The 2008-12 mortgage crisis is all the proof you need. The U.S. is currently attempting to jump start the economy by dumping oil reserves to drop the price of a barrel of oil which puts more disposable income in the hands of the people. These continuous bandages can be put on the system for a very long time to shore up the economy. The Great Depression was a massive global economic recession that ran from 1929 to 1941. That's 12 years of poverty and misery before a noticeable improvement. It led to massive bank failures, high unemployment, and dramatic drops in gross domestic product. It was so bad that we couldn't escape it without a major war which increased production creating jobs. I know I won't live long enough to see the end. I'm pretty sure my kids won't see it either but my grandkids are fucked. lol Bitcoin can't fix this unless it's traded as currency for product without an exchange step or being pegged to a currency and is trusted for international barter. If that happens at all, I won't live long enough to see it. Without knowing your age, I believe you won't live that long either. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: Chef Ramsay on January 04, 2015, 11:26:23 PM The question is: what are the impacts of a crash of the global finance system on the Bitcoin? Do you think that people would escape their savings in the Bitcoin ("the digital gold")? If a global crash does occur, I don't think people would like to put in their money into a more volatile digital currency, where they could lost more than 60% of their holdings .Just Quoting my brother here . I was talking to a friend about digital currencies today and he said I don't believe in digital currency is just made up out of thin air and said he only wants cold hard cash he can hold in his hands. Then he preceded to pay with his meal with a credit card.... Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: ElectricMucus on January 04, 2015, 11:47:45 PM Wow, this place is full of morons.
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: chaoman on January 05, 2015, 01:15:06 AM All I'm hearing from the forum is the imminent death of bitcoin due to the relatively small drop in price in dollar terms of Bitcoin. I see this as an early sign that a financial collapse is approaching and therefore the perfect time for wise investors to buy. I don't know if people are familiar with the work of Jim Willie of the Golden Jackass but I recommend him, he's fringy and controversial but he has always said that the sign the system is collapsing and the dollar is on its death bed will be a massive rise in the dollar not a drop. This also is a sign of a deriveratives implosion too. I think we will go lower, very low in fact (in dollar terms) and then we will get a spike up that will shock even seasoned bitcoiners. The absolutely only reason I'm not buying Bitcoin is I have no available fiat. If you are holding dollars then anytime from now is a good time to buy if you hold a longer tem perspective. http://www.maxkeiser.com/2015/01/harvey-organ-derivatives-meltdown-has-begun/ pure speculation :D This is the freaking speculation forum Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: applesRyummy on January 05, 2015, 01:42:42 AM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. You are most likely correct, however it is possible for the dollar to fail/collapse in your/our lifetimes. Your analogy is assuming that the US empire will fall the same way the British empire fell, very slowly over a period of 100+ years. It is possible that the US empire would fall the same way the greek empire fell, (or the german empire of WW2) - very quickly and having a cascading effect Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 05, 2015, 02:10:33 AM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. You are most likely correct, however it is possible for the dollar to fail/collapse in your/our lifetimes. Your analogy is assuming that the US empire will fall the same way the British empire fell, very slowly over a period of 100+ years. It is possible that the US empire would fall the same way the greek empire fell, (or the german empire of WW2) - very quickly and having a cascading effect I hope so. I'd kind of like to see it. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: mlferro on January 05, 2015, 03:02:12 AM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. You are most likely correct, however it is possible for the dollar to fail/collapse in your/our lifetimes. Your analogy is assuming that the US empire will fall the same way the British empire fell, very slowly over a period of 100+ years. It is possible that the US empire would fall the same way the greek empire fell, (or the german empire of WW2) - very quickly and having a cascading effect I hope so. I'd kind of like to see it. I hope this does not happen !! Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 05, 2015, 03:13:32 AM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. You are most likely correct, however it is possible for the dollar to fail/collapse in your/our lifetimes. Your analogy is assuming that the US empire will fall the same way the British empire fell, very slowly over a period of 100+ years. It is possible that the US empire would fall the same way the greek empire fell, (or the german empire of WW2) - very quickly and having a cascading effect I hope so. I'd kind of like to see it. I hope this does not happen !! Don't mind me. I've kind of always wanted to see how the world would handle a pandemic too. Although when it's happening I'm sure I would want it to stop. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: chesthing on January 05, 2015, 03:19:42 AM If you really believe the dollar is about to crash, buy ammo food and fuel, fuck crypto.
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: ElectricMucus on January 05, 2015, 03:30:28 AM If you really believe the dollar is about to crash, buy ammo food and fuel, fuck crypto. Yes, or better yet seek professional help, there are medications for that sort of thing. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: fran2k on January 05, 2015, 04:48:12 AM 1100 to 270 cant be seen as "relatively small" by any standard Not even one order of magnitude. Keep Calm & Think Exponential. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: mmortal03 on January 05, 2015, 07:51:39 AM Quote The dying dollar (economic forecaster, Gary Shilling) 2. The World’s Largest Economy The dominant currency is typically found in the world’s largest economy and the U.S. is head-and-shoulders above the rest. As Gary points out, in 2012 U.S. GDP was $15.7 trillion. The second closest, China, was nearly half the size at $8.2 trillion. If you think China is about to overtake the U.S. in terms of size, Gary says “China would have to grow 12% a year for 20 years to catch up…it’s now down at about 7.5% growth and as the Chinese economy shifts away from being driven by exports…away from infrastructure, away from heavy borrowing, and so on, their growth is going to grow even more slowly.” In terms of nominal GDP this is true, but in terms of GDP (PPP), China is right there with the US. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: RomertL on January 05, 2015, 09:21:15 AM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. You are most likely correct, however it is possible for the dollar to fail/collapse in your/our lifetimes. Your analogy is assuming that the US empire will fall the same way the British empire fell, very slowly over a period of 100+ years. It is possible that the US empire would fall the same way the greek empire fell, (or the german empire of WW2) - very quickly and having a cascading effect I hope so. I'd kind of like to see it. I hope this does not happen !! Don't mind me. I've kind of always wanted to see how the world would handle a pandemic too. Although when it's happening I'm sure I would want it to stop. I hope it will happen. Sure, people will suffer, but ask yourself, are they not already? The worlds financial system revolving around FED is deeply immoral, based on theft, counterfeiting and corruption and is directly or indirectly responsible for almost all major military and political conflicts as well as most if not all economical crises. Yea, people benefitting on the old system will take a hit, deal with it Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 05, 2015, 03:05:42 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. You are most likely correct, however it is possible for the dollar to fail/collapse in your/our lifetimes. Your analogy is assuming that the US empire will fall the same way the British empire fell, very slowly over a period of 100+ years. It is possible that the US empire would fall the same way the greek empire fell, (or the german empire of WW2) - very quickly and having a cascading effect I hope so. I'd kind of like to see it. I hope this does not happen !! Don't mind me. I've kind of always wanted to see how the world would handle a pandemic too. Although when it's happening I'm sure I would want it to stop. I hope it will happen. Sure, people will suffer, but ask yourself, are they not already? The worlds financial system revolving around FED is deeply immoral, based on theft, counterfeiting and corruption and is directly or indirectly responsible for almost all major military and political conflicts as well as most if not all economical crises. Yea, people benefitting on the old system will take a hit, deal with it What you're talking about is a people thing not a money thing. There are only two kinds of people in the world, conmen and their prey. Immorality, theft, ponzi's and corruption have happened in Bitcoinland too. It doesn't matter if the FED falls because a new group of manipulators would rise up and take over the next system. It would happen even if that system is based on a cryptocurrency. Pirate easily figured out how to run a ponzi denominated in crypto. The only thing that would come out of it is a bunch of innocent people would suffer along with a handful of greedy assholes. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: RomertL on January 05, 2015, 06:20:43 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. You are most likely correct, however it is possible for the dollar to fail/collapse in your/our lifetimes. Your analogy is assuming that the US empire will fall the same way the British empire fell, very slowly over a period of 100+ years. It is possible that the US empire would fall the same way the greek empire fell, (or the german empire of WW2) - very quickly and having a cascading effect I hope so. I'd kind of like to see it. I hope this does not happen !! Don't mind me. I've kind of always wanted to see how the world would handle a pandemic too. Although when it's happening I'm sure I would want it to stop. I hope it will happen. Sure, people will suffer, but ask yourself, are they not already? The worlds financial system revolving around FED is deeply immoral, based on theft, counterfeiting and corruption and is directly or indirectly responsible for almost all major military and political conflicts as well as most if not all economical crises. Yea, people benefitting on the old system will take a hit, deal with it What you're talking about is a people thing not a money thing. There are only two kinds of people in the world, conmen and their prey. Immorality, theft, ponzi's and corruption have happened in Bitcoinland too. It doesn't matter if the FED falls because a new group of manipulators would rise up and take over the next system. It would happen even if that system is based on a cryptocurrency. Pirate easily figured out how to run a ponzi denominated in crypto. The only thing that would come out of it is a bunch of innocent people would suffer along with a handful of greedy assholes. Can you really not see how much harder it would be to manipulate a bitcoin economy? There's no QE or printing press, they can't create money/steal value by typing on a computer. And should the people choose to have any kind of government, which I strongly oppose, but even if they would, they would still have a much harder time being corrupt since all the government spendings would be publically available in the Blockchain. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: QuestionAuthority on January 05, 2015, 08:55:10 PM I just have faith in the natural human ability to fuck things up, even Bitcoin.
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: Sevvero on January 05, 2015, 08:57:07 PM Blood in streets right?
Of course, sheeple. Except Rockfeller was not buying magic internet beans. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: twiifm on January 05, 2015, 09:00:07 PM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. You are most likely correct, however it is possible for the dollar to fail/collapse in your/our lifetimes. Your analogy is assuming that the US empire will fall the same way the British empire fell, very slowly over a period of 100+ years. It is possible that the US empire would fall the same way the greek empire fell, (or the german empire of WW2) - very quickly and having a cascading effect I hope so. I'd kind of like to see it. I hope this does not happen !! Don't mind me. I've kind of always wanted to see how the world would handle a pandemic too. Although when it's happening I'm sure I would want it to stop. I hope it will happen. Sure, people will suffer, but ask yourself, are they not already? The worlds financial system revolving around FED is deeply immoral, based on theft, counterfeiting and corruption and is directly or indirectly responsible for almost all major military and political conflicts as well as most if not all economical crises. Yea, people benefitting on the old system will take a hit, deal with it What you're talking about is a people thing not a money thing. There are only two kinds of people in the world, conmen and their prey. Immorality, theft, ponzi's and corruption have happened in Bitcoinland too. It doesn't matter if the FED falls because a new group of manipulators would rise up and take over the next system. It would happen even if that system is based on a cryptocurrency. Pirate easily figured out how to run a ponzi denominated in crypto. The only thing that would come out of it is a bunch of innocent people would suffer along with a handful of greedy assholes. Can you really not see how much harder it would be to manipulate a bitcoin economy? There's no QE or printing press, they can't create money/steal value by typing on a computer. And should the people choose to have any kind of government, which I strongly oppose, but even if they would, they would still have a much harder time being corrupt since all the government spendings would be publically available in the Blockchain. You don't need QE to mess w Bitcoin. You can probably crash the market w a million dollars Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: Sevvero on January 05, 2015, 10:07:56 PM Fools keep reciting their mantras. Numbers don't lie.
You had your chance. Was too stupid to buy at $1 and sell at $500? Your problem. Now everyone has heard about Bitcoin. And everyone has decided it's shit. It's not "innovation" anymore. You are too late. You missed your chance. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: RomertL on January 07, 2015, 05:04:55 AM The dollar can't die quickly in the classic sense because the dollar isn't just a bunch of paper that people agree has value. It's an enormously complex system of domestic and international trade that would require a century to unravel. Maybe in a century there will be a competing currency to fill the vacuum left after its demise. If that's Bitcoin, great. Of course, it won't matter to me because I'll be dead. You are most likely correct, however it is possible for the dollar to fail/collapse in your/our lifetimes. Your analogy is assuming that the US empire will fall the same way the British empire fell, very slowly over a period of 100+ years. It is possible that the US empire would fall the same way the greek empire fell, (or the german empire of WW2) - very quickly and having a cascading effect I hope so. I'd kind of like to see it. I hope this does not happen !! Don't mind me. I've kind of always wanted to see how the world would handle a pandemic too. Although when it's happening I'm sure I would want it to stop. I hope it will happen. Sure, people will suffer, but ask yourself, are they not already? The worlds financial system revolving around FED is deeply immoral, based on theft, counterfeiting and corruption and is directly or indirectly responsible for almost all major military and political conflicts as well as most if not all economical crises. Yea, people benefitting on the old system will take a hit, deal with it What you're talking about is a people thing not a money thing. There are only two kinds of people in the world, conmen and their prey. Immorality, theft, ponzi's and corruption have happened in Bitcoinland too. It doesn't matter if the FED falls because a new group of manipulators would rise up and take over the next system. It would happen even if that system is based on a cryptocurrency. Pirate easily figured out how to run a ponzi denominated in crypto. The only thing that would come out of it is a bunch of innocent people would suffer along with a handful of greedy assholes. Can you really not see how much harder it would be to manipulate a bitcoin economy? There's no QE or printing press, they can't create money/steal value by typing on a computer. And should the people choose to have any kind of government, which I strongly oppose, but even if they would, they would still have a much harder time being corrupt since all the government spendings would be publically available in the Blockchain. You don't need QE to mess w Bitcoin. You can probably crash the market w a million dollars I don't know, I guess you could use it to slowly buy btc and then sell all at the same time while spreading as much FUD as possible on a low-volume trading day. Maybe instigating a panic sell plus get some stop-losses activated... But it doesn't change anything fundamental, and rate will probably return after a while. Many people say the rate is manipulated, but how would they do that? Is there more efficient way than what I described? Because if that is the best way I'm not that worried. Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: Notanon on January 07, 2015, 05:45:18 AM Wish I had a bit more fiat to buy with, but alas, not in my current situation.
Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: pitham1 on January 07, 2015, 04:56:51 PM Wish I had a bit more fiat to buy with, but alas, not in my current situation. We need a booming bitcoin derivative market, where we can take punts with margin money. ;D Title: Re: Why Bitcoin is dropping and why you should be buying. Post by: Nagle on January 07, 2015, 10:37:36 PM We need a booming bitcoin derivative market, where we can take punts with margin money. A derivatives market requires reliable counter-parties. Bitcoin doesn't have that. |