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Title: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: Parazyd on January 14, 2015, 11:58:00 AM This may just be considered as a rant...
I'd like to see the old Newbie Jail brought back up and running. There's been way too much newbie accounts spamming all around the forums with all kinds of schemes, asking for loans and what the hell not. For those that aren't familiar with the term "Newbie Jail": It's the only subsection of the forum where newbies can post for a certain amount of time and/or until you get a required amount of posts. This used to exist, and was requested a few times again. I'd like to request it again. Some ideas for the jail:
I know this might make the forum seem like some kind of an "elitist" place, but there's just too much people crowding up the forum with all kinds of crap. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: Quickseller on January 14, 2015, 01:26:30 PM I think the newbie jail as previously implemented detered users from joining our community.
I would support some kind of modified newbie jail that maybe had certain restrictions in posting and/or creating threads in certain sections. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: goozman96 on January 14, 2015, 02:44:29 PM I don't think it deterred them from joining. They still had to join then realize they are in jail for X amount of time. I guess it could deter them from staying and working their way out of jail. But then again, anyone who wouldn't be willing to put in the effort would probably be a low quality user anyway, IMO.
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: redsn0w on January 14, 2015, 02:47:50 PM I think the same , so I've voted for yes. At least take part in the "forum activity" and after start to open your thread. It prevents the multiple loans request , ponzi , and scam.
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: --Encrypted-- on January 14, 2015, 03:00:40 PM I don't know about this newbie jail because I've never experienced it. but if this prevents lending threads or trolling by one day old users then my answer is "yes".
maybe modify it a bit/add some exceptions so that users that registered as a representative of their site can post right away. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: Mirdude on January 14, 2015, 03:04:04 PM I'd vote for this as it seems like a good idea to stop them from the spam.
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: kuusj98 on January 14, 2015, 03:05:04 PM Please implement it again!
The amount of rubbish posts or users creating fake accounts is just too damn high... Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: Lauda on January 14, 2015, 06:00:26 PM Well this certainly wouldn't be the first time that we have asked for its return. However this might be the first thread that has a poll (unsure).
Despite of the obvious request by the community, the staff isn't doing anything about it. The question is why? Note: I've obviously voted yes. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: expert4knowledge on January 14, 2015, 06:22:03 PM I do not support that type of jail but some strict limitations on numbers of posts,.. seems a prerequisite for users of this forum.
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: irfan_pak10 on January 14, 2015, 06:57:57 PM Voted and +1 your idea. I liked it because u wanted this forum working at its best. Today i checked the lending section i saw many newbi looking for a loan of 20, 50 and more amount of btc with red trust.
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: redsn0w on January 14, 2015, 07:01:57 PM Voted and +1 your idea. I liked it because u wanted this forum working at its best. Today i checked the lending section i saw many newbi looking for a loan of 20, 50 and more amount of btc with red trust. Every day at least 5-6 newbie ask for a loan in the lending section , I don't tell : NO ; but at least provide a valid collateral and put it in a trusted escrow.Also those new ponzi schemes , I don't think the forum *should* prevent this type of thread ( a negative feedback is not the right way to stop them). Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: Parazyd on January 14, 2015, 07:08:11 PM Voted and +1 your idea. I liked it because u wanted this forum working at its best. Today i checked the lending section i saw many newbi looking for a loan of 20, 50 and more amount of btc with red trust. Every day at least 5-6 newbie ask for a loan in the lending section , I don't tell : NO ; but at least provide a valid collateral and put it in a trusted escrow.This. Today someone asked for a 25 BTC loan. Offered "his" car as collateral. I asked for the car's papers and a photo ID to prove it. Never got a reply. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=411787;sa=showPosts Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: redsn0w on January 14, 2015, 07:13:40 PM Voted and +1 your idea. I liked it because u wanted this forum working at its best. Today i checked the lending section i saw many newbi looking for a loan of 20, 50 and more amount of btc with red trust. Every day at least 5-6 newbie ask for a loan in the lending section , I don't tell : NO ; but at least provide a valid collateral and put it in a trusted escrow.This. Today someone asked for a 25 BTC loan. Offered "his" car as collateral. I asked for the car's papers and a photo ID to prove it. Never got a reply. That's insane ;D. I think the forum should forbid to a newbie to start a thread ("at least" until he will become a Jr. member ). Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: PolarPoint on January 14, 2015, 07:23:15 PM I voted no, because I think it is a bad idea to cage genuine newbies with potential scammers in a beginners subforum. The rest of the forum will be cleaner, less trolls but newbies will be scammed more easily. I am sick of fud and troll posts too, newbie jail is not a good solution.
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: Parazyd on January 14, 2015, 07:26:58 PM I voted no, because I think it is a bad idea to cage genuine newbies with potential scammers in a beginners subforum. The rest of the forum will be cleaner, less trolls but newbies will be scammed more easily. I am sick of fud and troll posts too, newbie jail is not a good solution. Not at all. Why do you think lending/trading/etc. threads would even be allowed in the newbie section? Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: Quickseller on January 14, 2015, 07:38:51 PM Voted and +1 your idea. I liked it because u wanted this forum working at its best. Today i checked the lending section i saw many newbi looking for a loan of 20, 50 and more amount of btc with red trust. Every day at least 5-6 newbie ask for a loan in the lending section , I don't tell : NO ; but at least provide a valid collateral and put it in a trusted escrow.This. Today someone asked for a 25 BTC loan. Offered "his" car as collateral. I asked for the car's papers and a photo ID to prove it. Never got a reply. That's insane ;D. I think the forum should forbid to a newbie to start a thread ("at least" until he will become a Jr. member ). I would say they should be able to create threads in places like Bitcoin discussion, meta, politics, economics, and altcoin section (except marketplace) as they may want to start/have a controversial discussion they might not want associated with their identity. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: redsn0w on January 14, 2015, 07:42:25 PM Voted and +1 your idea. I liked it because u wanted this forum working at its best. Today i checked the lending section i saw many newbi looking for a loan of 20, 50 and more amount of btc with red trust. Every day at least 5-6 newbie ask for a loan in the lending section , I don't tell : NO ; but at least provide a valid collateral and put it in a trusted escrow.This. Today someone asked for a 25 BTC loan. Offered "his" car as collateral. I asked for the car's papers and a photo ID to prove it. Never got a reply. That's insane ;D. I think the forum should forbid to a newbie to start a thread ("at least" until he will become a Jr. member ). I would say they should be able to create threads in places like Bitcoin discussion, meta, politics, economics, and altcoin section (except marketplace) as they may want to start/have a controversial discussion they might not want associated with their identity. Yes of course , in the forum section where he wants to learn about bitcoin ... not open a thread in the marketplace section ( or other) to try scam someone. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: niktitan132 on January 14, 2015, 08:50:54 PM Voted and +1 your idea. I liked it because u wanted this forum working at its best. Today i checked the lending section i saw many newbi looking for a loan of 20, 50 and more amount of btc with red trust. Every day at least 5-6 newbie ask for a loan in the lending section , I don't tell : NO ; but at least provide a valid collateral and put it in a trusted escrow.This. Today someone asked for a 25 BTC loan. Offered "his" car as collateral. I asked for the car's papers and a photo ID to prove it. Never got a reply. That's insane ;D. I think the forum should forbid to a newbie to start a thread ("at least" until he will become a Jr. member ). I would say they should be able to create threads in places like Bitcoin discussion, meta, politics, economics, and altcoin section (except marketplace) as they may want to start/have a controversial discussion they might not want associated with their identity. Yes of course , in the forum section where he wants to learn about bitcoin ... not open a thread in the marketplace section ( or other) to try scam someone. I agree with this. The newbie jail should be back.There is too much scams and scam attempts,fud,trolling...going on this forum.The scammers would then need to put a lot more effort to scam and probably half of them would give up before they get out of newbie jail.In theory that should work,we will see. Or they will start to buy accounts which are not in newbie jail. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: CrackedLogic on January 14, 2015, 09:07:57 PM I really want newbie jail to come back. Newbie jail can come back and newbies can have a post limit per section per day for everything that's not inside of the jail.
This^. If no newbie jail, I'd like this please. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: runam0k on January 15, 2015, 12:56:10 AM Another vote FOR newbie jail. Terrible at the moment -- the price crash seems to have brought fresh waves of new accounts, no surprise there.
The ignore-all-newbies button/option is an interesting one, but the newbie jail was good because the genuine newbie questions were, for the most part, answered. I actually found it very useful. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: rugrats on January 15, 2015, 02:43:13 AM Well this certainly wouldn't be the first time that we have asked for its return. However this might be the first thread that has a poll (unsure). Despite of the obvious request by the community, the staff isn't doing anything about it. The question is why? Note: I've obviously voted yes. Actually, I created poll relating to this some months back. Like you, I was/remain mystified over the admins' apathy on the subject. Here's what BadBear had to say about it. <snip> Restricting accounts will not work. Do you honestly think the scams are just some random newbie that shows up, then leaves? There are rings of scammers operating here. It's the same on any forum revolving around finance, this isn't a phenomenon located just here. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out the majority of them are by the same two or three groups. If we restrict newbies from posting, then we'll just see proxy posts, people paying someone else to post it for them. Then every announcement thread will be prefaced with *Not my coin, just posting this thread*. Or bought accounts, which will just be considered the cost of doing business by scammers. No matter what restrictions we put on accounts, they'll get around it. <snip> I guess in his mind (perhaps theymos as well), rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all. We should be thankful BadBear is not President of the Galaxy (http://media.tumblr.com/cd24e7d22fe9847471ab9b9c171734c9/tumblr_inline_mpzrux3gHa1qz4rgp.gif). Otherwise, laws against murder, kidnapping and theft would probably all be repealed as well since people still commit those crimes despite the presence of such laws. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: hilariousandco on January 15, 2015, 07:19:29 AM I guess in his mind (perhaps theymos as well), rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all. We should be thankful BadBear is not President of the Galaxy (http://media.tumblr.com/cd24e7d22fe9847471ab9b9c171734c9/tumblr_inline_mpzrux3gHa1qz4rgp.gif). Otherwise, laws against murder, kidnapping and theft would probably all be repealed as well since people still commit those crimes despite the presence of such laws. That's not really a fair comparison. The point he's trying to make is is no amount of restrictions will ever stop spammers or scammers. They're persitent and they'll just wait their time and bypass any restrictions we put in place and all this then does is penalise genuine users who just want to be able to contribute to the community in whatever way and having restrictions and jails is just really annoying and off putting to them. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: haploid23 on January 15, 2015, 07:31:13 AM I'd vote for this as it seems like a good idea to stop them from the spam. Oh the irony. Why don't you look at the first week's worth of posts on that account you bought. If it weren't for him, you never would have gotten that account. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: opossum on January 15, 2015, 07:58:43 AM I would say it would almost be a good idea to temporarily re-institute the newbie jail until the ponzi fad goes away. This would make it so people have to at least put a little more effort into making a ponzi scam or risk trashing their real account.
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: hilariousetc on January 15, 2015, 08:01:47 AM Do you think having a newb jail is going to stop ponzi operators? All you would be doing is delaying the inevitable as Ponzi operators will wait out the restrictions whilst other newbs are penalised.
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: opossum on January 15, 2015, 08:13:12 AM Do you think having a newb jail is going to stop ponzi operators? All you would be doing is delaying the inevitable as Ponzi operators will wait out the restrictions whilst other newbs are penalised. It will slow them down and increase the effort required to start one. Most of the ponzis are pretty much cut and paste from eachother so the operators put very little effort into them. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: hilariousetc on January 15, 2015, 08:22:39 AM My above point still stands. This will only marginally annoy ponzi operators but they will persist whereas it will greatly annoy and likely put-off genuine posters. No amount of restrictions will ever annoy scammers so much that they just give up but it will for casual posters. The best you can ask for is ponzis to be moved into their own section or ultimately their complete banning (though the latter is less likely).
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: opossum on January 15, 2015, 08:27:10 AM My above point still stands. This will only marginally annoy ponzi operators but they will persist whereas it will greatly annoy and likely put-off genuine posters. No amount of restrictions will ever annoy scammers so much that they just give up but it will for casual posters. The best you can ask for is ponzis to be moved into their own section or ultimately their complete banning (though the latter is less likely). It would be temporary until the ponzi fad goes away. You are right that it would only marginally affect the ponzis but it would be a step in the right direction. Other countermeasures against ponzis could be implemented as well against ponzis. Alternatively a rule could be implemented that prevents under a certain rank from creating threads in the gambling section which would probably not "put off" many, if any legit usersTitle: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: ABitNut on January 15, 2015, 08:33:15 AM It would surely be good for account farms. Their product would increase in value. Sure, it will make things *slightly* harder for scammers. But I seriously feel it will have a negative impact on true newbie that outweighs the minor discomfort for scammers.
I voted no. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: hilariousetc on January 15, 2015, 08:49:06 AM It would be temporary until the ponzi fad goes away. You are right that it would only marginally affect the ponzis but it would be a step in the right direction. Other countermeasures against ponzis could be implemented as well against ponzis. Alternatively a rule could be implemented that prevents under a certain rank from creating threads in the gambling section which would probably not "put off" many, if any legit users We can't keep adding and removing the newbie jail everytime a wave of (what you consider to be) troublesome activity arises. Who said this fad will go away? It might die down a little eventually but ponzi-type scams will always remain in some form unless they're banned. It would surely be good for account farms. Their product would increase in value. Sure, it will make things *slightly* harder for scammers. But I seriously feel it will have a negative impact on true newbie that outweighs the minor discomfort for scammers. I voted no. I doubt the jail will push sale of accounts up much. Most newbs have little to no bitcoins in the first place and likely won't want to spend the little they have on an account to bypass some restrictions that can be easily averted with just a little patience. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: picolo on January 15, 2015, 02:07:06 PM I think the newbie jail as previously implemented detered users from joining our community. I would support some kind of modified newbie jail that maybe had certain restrictions in posting and/or creating threads in certain sections. Newbie jail slows down the rate of new joiners which can be seen as positive or negative, newbies already have restrictions to post : the 360 seconds rule. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: princesocapuyo on January 15, 2015, 05:50:01 PM I agree with this, it's too easy to spam and trying to scam with alternate accounts. It would reduce the number of newcomers, on the other hand, if someone takes the time to get out of newbe jail, you can be sure they'll be worthy users.
Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: Lauda on January 15, 2015, 08:25:19 PM I guess in his mind (perhaps theymos as well), rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all. We should be thankful BadBear is not President of the Galaxy (http://media.tumblr.com/cd24e7d22fe9847471ab9b9c171734c9/tumblr_inline_mpzrux3gHa1qz4rgp.gif). Otherwise, laws against murder, kidnapping and theft would probably all be repealed as well since people still commit those crimes despite the presence of such laws. That's not really a fair comparison. The point he's trying to make is is no amount of restrictions will ever stop spammers or scammers. They're persitent and they'll just wait their time and bypass any restrictions we put in place and all this then does is penalise genuine users who just want to be able to contribute to the community in whatever way and having restrictions and jails is just really annoying and off putting to them. In that you will find your solution. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: Brewins on January 16, 2015, 12:18:26 AM It would be temporary until the ponzi fad goes away. You are right that it would only marginally affect the ponzis but it would be a step in the right direction. Other countermeasures against ponzis could be implemented as well against ponzis. Alternatively a rule could be implemented that prevents under a certain rank from creating threads in the gambling section which would probably not "put off" many, if any legit users We can't keep adding and removing the newbie jail everytime a wave of (what you consider to be) troublesome activity arises. Who said this fad will go away? It might die down a little eventually but ponzi-type scams will always remain in some form unless they're banned. It would surely be good for account farms. Their product would increase in value. Sure, it will make things *slightly* harder for scammers. But I seriously feel it will have a negative impact on true newbie that outweighs the minor discomfort for scammers. I voted no. I doubt the jail will push sale of accounts up much. Most newbs have little to no bitcoins in the first place and likely won't want to spend the little they have on an account to bypass some restrictions that can be easily averted with just a little patience. Newbie accounts != newbie users. Only newbie users have little to no money. But older users that for one reason or other(scam, ban evasion, etc) have money and would easily bypass the newbie jail by buying jr accounts for low Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: rugrats on January 16, 2015, 01:08:08 AM I guess in his mind (perhaps theymos as well), rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all. We should be thankful BadBear is not President of the Galaxy (http://media.tumblr.com/cd24e7d22fe9847471ab9b9c171734c9/tumblr_inline_mpzrux3gHa1qz4rgp.gif). Otherwise, laws against murder, kidnapping and theft would probably all be repealed as well since people still commit those crimes despite the presence of such laws. That's not really a fair comparison. The point he's trying to make is is no amount of restrictions will ever stop spammers or scammers. They're persitent and they'll just wait their time and bypass any restrictions we put in place and all this then does is penalise genuine users who just want to be able to contribute to the community in whatever way and having restrictions and jails is just really annoying and off putting to them. You may not realize this, but these rules (or rather, the absence of them), are an expression of the political beliefs of theymos and the old guards of the forum. Unfortunately, time and experience has demonstrated this anarchist approach does not work in a lucrative forum environment populated by anonymous, unscrupulous characters. Victim blaming can only go so far before the spotlight turns toward the stewards. Digging ones' heels too deep in might just eventually turn one into the elite dinosaur-like monoliths so many here proclaim to detest. For the record, 'genuine users', as you termed it, do not create accounts out of the blue just to launch new coins, announce new ponzis, make loan requests or engage in character assassinations. You and I know this, and even BadBear alluded to as much. We already have restrictions for newbies now, so we're not exactly selling our souls if we introduce new, much needed ones. Drawing arbitrary invisible lines that cannot be crossed just doesn't make sense. Sometimes I wonder why I bother getting into these exchanges. It's not as if theymos or BadBear actually gives a damn to what we're saying. They should though, because this forum's reputation is gradually deteriorating by the day. They're both young men entrusted with awesome powers. I just hope they realize making decisions from ivory towers have never worked out well, and relying only on affirmations from sycophants can be misleading. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: ABitNut on January 16, 2015, 01:29:18 AM I guess in his mind (perhaps theymos as well), rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all. We should be thankful BadBear is not President of the Galaxy (http://media.tumblr.com/cd24e7d22fe9847471ab9b9c171734c9/tumblr_inline_mpzrux3gHa1qz4rgp.gif). Otherwise, laws against murder, kidnapping and theft would probably all be repealed as well since people still commit those crimes despite the presence of such laws. That's not really a fair comparison. The point he's trying to make is is no amount of restrictions will ever stop spammers or scammers. They're persitent and they'll just wait their time and bypass any restrictions we put in place and all this then does is penalise genuine users who just want to be able to contribute to the community in whatever way and having restrictions and jails is just really annoying and off putting to them. You may not realize this, but these rules (or rather, the absence of them), are an expression of the political beliefs of theymos and the old guards of the forum. Unfortunately, time and experience has demonstrated this anarchist approach does not work in a lucrative forum environment populated by anonymous, unscrupulous character. Victim blaming can only go so far before the spotlight turns toward the stewards. Digging ones' heels too deep in might just eventually turn one into the elite dinosaur-like monoliths so many here proclaim to detest. For the record, 'genuine users', as you termed it, do not create accounts out of the blue just to launch new coins, announce new ponzis, make loan requests or engage in character assassinations. You and I know this, and even BadBear alluded to as much. We have restrictions for newbies now, so we're not exactly selling our souls if we introduce new, much needed ones. Drawing arbitrary invisible lines that cannot be crossed just doesn't make sense. Sometimes I wonder why I bother getting into these exchanges. It's not as if theymos or BadBear actually gives a damn to what we're saying. They should though, because this forum's reputation is gradually deteriorating by the day. They're both young men entrusted with awesome powers. I just hope they realize making decisions from ivory towers have never worked out well, and relying only on affirmations from sycophants can be misleading. So you're saying 1) Current newbie account restrictions (limiting post time) doesn't work 2) Restricting newbie accounts to a single subforum is going to work Am I getting that right? If so, could you convince me that 2 will work where it has failed in the past and 1 is not working either? And where did theymos or any staff say that rules that cannot be 100% enforced should not be enacted at all? That sounds silly. Saying, "I guess this person thinks the world is flat" and then start arguing with that person that the world is round doesn't make sense either. But I'll play that game too then. What I guess is more likely on their mind is that some rules will have too much costs (effort to be practically enforced, reduction in genuine new users joining) to warrant the benefit (scammers will need to grow new accounts for 2 weeks, no biggie!). Let's see which one of us is the better mind reader. And if you want to discuss the morality/politics behind laws and their enforcement feel free to open another thread, because it seems way off topic for the newbie jail poll. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: rugrats on January 16, 2015, 02:09:56 AM I guess in his mind (perhaps theymos as well), rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all. We should be thankful BadBear is not President of the Galaxy (http://media.tumblr.com/cd24e7d22fe9847471ab9b9c171734c9/tumblr_inline_mpzrux3gHa1qz4rgp.gif). Otherwise, laws against murder, kidnapping and theft would probably all be repealed as well since people still commit those crimes despite the presence of such laws. That's not really a fair comparison. The point he's trying to make is is no amount of restrictions will ever stop spammers or scammers. They're persitent and they'll just wait their time and bypass any restrictions we put in place and all this then does is penalise genuine users who just want to be able to contribute to the community in whatever way and having restrictions and jails is just really annoying and off putting to them. You may not realize this, but these rules (or rather, the absence of them), are an expression of the political beliefs of theymos and the old guards of the forum. Unfortunately, time and experience has demonstrated this anarchist approach does not work in a lucrative forum environment populated by anonymous, unscrupulous character. Victim blaming can only go so far before the spotlight turns toward the stewards. Digging ones' heels too deep in might just eventually turn one into the elite dinosaur-like monoliths so many here proclaim to detest. For the record, 'genuine users', as you termed it, do not create accounts out of the blue just to launch new coins, announce new ponzis, make loan requests or engage in character assassinations. You and I know this, and even BadBear alluded to as much. We have restrictions for newbies now, so we're not exactly selling our souls if we introduce new, much needed ones. Drawing arbitrary invisible lines that cannot be crossed just doesn't make sense. Sometimes I wonder why I bother getting into these exchanges. It's not as if theymos or BadBear actually gives a damn to what we're saying. They should though, because this forum's reputation is gradually deteriorating by the day. They're both young men entrusted with awesome powers. I just hope they realize making decisions from ivory towers have never worked out well, and relying only on affirmations from sycophants can be misleading. So you're saying 1) Current newbie account restrictions (limiting post time) doesn't work 2) Restricting newbie accounts to a single subforum is going to work Am I getting that right? If so, could you convince me that 2 will work where it has failed in the past and 1 is not working either? And where did theymos or any staff say that rules that cannot be 100% enforced should not be enacted at all? That sounds silly. Saying, "I guess this person thinks the world is flat" and then start arguing with that person that the world is round doesn't make sense either. But I'll play that game too then. What I guess is more likely on their mind is that some rules will have too much costs (effort to be practically enforced, reduction in genuine new users joining) to warrant the benefit (scammers will need to grow new accounts for 2 weeks, no biggie!). Let's see which one of us is the better mind reader. And if you want to discuss the morality/politics behind laws and their enforcement feel free to open another thread, because it seems way off topic for the newbie jail poll. As to whether its silly or not, perhaps you should ask Badbear, since he said it, as I quoted earlier. As for your displeasure over the rest of my comment, frankly, I don't give a damn. This is meta, and the subject relates to the topic at hand. I can't help it if you can't see the big picture. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: ABitNut on January 16, 2015, 02:29:42 AM Actually, I created poll relating to this some months back. Like you, I was/remain mystified over the admins' apathy on the subject. Here's what BadBear had to say about it. I've never seen so many complaints about people having the right to choose. Do you really want some dudes on a forum deciding what you should be able to invest your money in? If you feel their should be controls of some sorts, then do it, and stop expecting someone else to do it for you. Make an Altcoin Business Bureau or whatever you think will help. I had hopes for that scamcoin buster thing a while back, but it seems to have fizzled out. Restricting accounts will not work. Do you honestly think the scams are just some random newbie that shows up, then leaves? There are rings of scammers operating here. It's the same on any forum revolving around finance, this isn't a phenomenon located just here. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out the majority of them are by the same two or three groups. If we restrict newbies from posting, then we'll just see proxy posts, people paying someone else to post it for them. Then every announcement thread will be prefaced with *Not my coin, just posting this thread*. Or bought accounts, which will just be considered the cost of doing business by scammers. No matter what restrictions we put on accounts, they'll get around it. Need to be a Junior member to make a thread? If I were a scammer, I'd just make 50 accounts today, 50 accounts tomorrow, 50 more the day after that, etc. After a few weeks I'm back in business, with tons of disposable accounts to cull the suckers who now have a false sense of security. Pay to post? Just look at how many donators/VIP members turned out to be scammers for proof that no amount is high enough to deter scammers. I remember seeing one scammer post in scammer accusations, he said he made 5k+ a month here, and had been for several months. He's probably still here. People are too used to having someone else hold their hand. Many people just don't want to take responsibility for their own actions, and don't want to admit they're gullible, greedy idiots, so they run here to post about how it's totally everyone else's fault, and the forum should have stopped it somehow. You have the freedom to choose, make your choices wisely. I guess in his mind (perhaps theymos as well), rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all. We should be thankful BadBear is not President of the Galaxy (http://media.tumblr.com/cd24e7d22fe9847471ab9b9c171734c9/tumblr_inline_mpzrux3gHa1qz4rgp.gif). Otherwise, laws against murder, kidnapping and theft would probably all be repealed as well since people still commit those crimes despite the presence of such laws. I took the liberty of putting the full quote from BadBear in. Now where in the quote does BadBear say "rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all"? Because I don't see it in that quote. I appreciate that your argument is more nuanced. I agree that if there's a reasonable measure that can be taken to actually hinder scammer it should be implemented. And maybe I came off a tad strong. I'm in a crappy mood and the rest of the world be damned! Also I didn't have coffee yet and I sincerely can't see a picture so big that not wanting to hold everyone's hand on a forum means wanting to get rid of laws against murder, kidnapping and theft. And, of course, I still don't feel newbie jail will do anything to stop malicious people from doing whatever they want on here. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: rugrats on January 16, 2015, 02:48:04 AM Actually, I created poll relating to this some months back. Like you, I was/remain mystified over the admins' apathy on the subject. Here's what BadBear had to say about it. I've never seen so many complaints about people having the right to choose. Do you really want some dudes on a forum deciding what you should be able to invest your money in? If you feel their should be controls of some sorts, then do it, and stop expecting someone else to do it for you. Make an Altcoin Business Bureau or whatever you think will help. I had hopes for that scamcoin buster thing a while back, but it seems to have fizzled out. Restricting accounts will not work. Do you honestly think the scams are just some random newbie that shows up, then leaves? There are rings of scammers operating here. It's the same on any forum revolving around finance, this isn't a phenomenon located just here. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out the majority of them are by the same two or three groups. If we restrict newbies from posting, then we'll just see proxy posts, people paying someone else to post it for them. Then every announcement thread will be prefaced with *Not my coin, just posting this thread*. Or bought accounts, which will just be considered the cost of doing business by scammers. No matter what restrictions we put on accounts, they'll get around it. Need to be a Junior member to make a thread? If I were a scammer, I'd just make 50 accounts today, 50 accounts tomorrow, 50 more the day after that, etc. After a few weeks I'm back in business, with tons of disposable accounts to cull the suckers who now have a false sense of security. Pay to post? Just look at how many donators/VIP members turned out to be scammers for proof that no amount is high enough to deter scammers. I remember seeing one scammer post in scammer accusations, he said he made 5k+ a month here, and had been for several months. He's probably still here. People are too used to having someone else hold their hand. Many people just don't want to take responsibility for their own actions, and don't want to admit they're gullible, greedy idiots, so they run here to post about how it's totally everyone else's fault, and the forum should have stopped it somehow. You have the freedom to choose, make your choices wisely. I guess in his mind (perhaps theymos as well), rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all. We should be thankful BadBear is not President of the Galaxy (http://media.tumblr.com/cd24e7d22fe9847471ab9b9c171734c9/tumblr_inline_mpzrux3gHa1qz4rgp.gif). Otherwise, laws against murder, kidnapping and theft would probably all be repealed as well since people still commit those crimes despite the presence of such laws. I took the liberty of putting the full quote from BadBear in. Now where in the quote does BadBear say "rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all"? Because I don't see it in that quote. I appreciate that your argument is more nuanced. I agree that if there's a reasonable measure that can be taken to actually hinder scammer it should be implemented. And maybe I came off a tad strong. I'm in a crappy mood and the rest of the world be damned! Also I didn't have coffee yet and I sincerely can't see a picture so big that not wanting to hold everyone's hand on a forum means wanting to get rid of laws against murder, kidnapping and theft. And, of course, I still don't feel newbie jail will do anything to stop malicious people from doing whatever they want on here. I appreciate you backing off, and I'll reciprocate. I understand how shitty some days can be, especially in the absence of coffee. My point is, we have existing newbie restrictions, and we used to have more - but suddenly the idea of implementing new ones or reinvoking old ones are taboo. There are implications when the barriers and costs of entry are raised or lowered. In this particular instance, the lowering of the barriers has yielded a year-long flood of abusers. Isn't it time to raise the barriers up once again? Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: ABitNut on January 16, 2015, 03:22:30 AM Actually, I created poll relating to this some months back. Like you, I was/remain mystified over the admins' apathy on the subject. Here's what BadBear had to say about it. I've never seen so many complaints about people having the right to choose. Do you really want some dudes on a forum deciding what you should be able to invest your money in? If you feel their should be controls of some sorts, then do it, and stop expecting someone else to do it for you. Make an Altcoin Business Bureau or whatever you think will help. I had hopes for that scamcoin buster thing a while back, but it seems to have fizzled out. Restricting accounts will not work. Do you honestly think the scams are just some random newbie that shows up, then leaves? There are rings of scammers operating here. It's the same on any forum revolving around finance, this isn't a phenomenon located just here. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out the majority of them are by the same two or three groups. If we restrict newbies from posting, then we'll just see proxy posts, people paying someone else to post it for them. Then every announcement thread will be prefaced with *Not my coin, just posting this thread*. Or bought accounts, which will just be considered the cost of doing business by scammers. No matter what restrictions we put on accounts, they'll get around it. Need to be a Junior member to make a thread? If I were a scammer, I'd just make 50 accounts today, 50 accounts tomorrow, 50 more the day after that, etc. After a few weeks I'm back in business, with tons of disposable accounts to cull the suckers who now have a false sense of security. Pay to post? Just look at how many donators/VIP members turned out to be scammers for proof that no amount is high enough to deter scammers. I remember seeing one scammer post in scammer accusations, he said he made 5k+ a month here, and had been for several months. He's probably still here. People are too used to having someone else hold their hand. Many people just don't want to take responsibility for their own actions, and don't want to admit they're gullible, greedy idiots, so they run here to post about how it's totally everyone else's fault, and the forum should have stopped it somehow. You have the freedom to choose, make your choices wisely. I guess in his mind (perhaps theymos as well), rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all. We should be thankful BadBear is not President of the Galaxy (http://media.tumblr.com/cd24e7d22fe9847471ab9b9c171734c9/tumblr_inline_mpzrux3gHa1qz4rgp.gif). Otherwise, laws against murder, kidnapping and theft would probably all be repealed as well since people still commit those crimes despite the presence of such laws. I took the liberty of putting the full quote from BadBear in. Now where in the quote does BadBear say "rules that can't be enforced 100% should not be enacted at all"? Because I don't see it in that quote. I appreciate that your argument is more nuanced. I agree that if there's a reasonable measure that can be taken to actually hinder scammer it should be implemented. And maybe I came off a tad strong. I'm in a crappy mood and the rest of the world be damned! Also I didn't have coffee yet and I sincerely can't see a picture so big that not wanting to hold everyone's hand on a forum means wanting to get rid of laws against murder, kidnapping and theft. And, of course, I still don't feel newbie jail will do anything to stop malicious people from doing whatever they want on here. I appreciate you backing off, and I'll reciprocate. I understand how shitty some days can be, especially in the absence of coffee. My point is, we have existing newbie restrictions, and we used to have more - but suddenly the idea of implementing new ones or reinvoking old ones are taboo. There are implications when the barriers and costs of entry are raised or lowered. In this particular instance, the lowering of the barriers has yielded a year-long flood of abusers. Isn't it time to raise the barriers up once again? Honestly I joined here after the newbie jail was removed. I suffered "only" the posting delay, which I felt was pretty bad but bearable. I don't know the real effectiveness of the newbie jail. I have seen and still see users posting only for signature campaigns (I hope the current exchange BTC - $ exchange rate will fix that for a while), flood of altcoin announcements with many newbie/junior shill accounts as well as (bought) senior/hero account shills) and recently a new influx of ponzi schemes (they call them games cause they're "honest" about it). I'm all for stopping/reducing that flood of useless posts. But I don't really see the newbie jail helping much in that. I would lean more to having a system where posts can be rated ("Hey, I value this post" and "Wow, this post is crap"). Then we can also easily see which users are contributing and which users aren't. Of course, such a system needs to be maintained too since it's open for manipulation (signature campaign farms valuing between the x number accounts they own?). I'm not sure if something like that would be worth the effort. Title: Re: Bring back Newbie Jail Post by: koshgel on January 16, 2015, 10:09:30 AM My vote goes to 'yes'.
Newbie jail doesn't stop anyone from wanting to join the forums. The point of the forum is to read about Bitcoin and learn everything there is about it. Plenty of information before the newbie time limit is up. And any questions they may have has definitely been answered before. On top of that, it would stop scammy lending posts, ponzi posts, and make it more difficult for scammers and spammers to up post counts of new accounts to sell or scam. |